Here is an example pf a new car that I keep scratching my head if the price is a typo.

Find vehicles for sale in Newark DE

View Porsche Delaware's vehicles for sale in Newark DE. We have a great selection of new and used cars, trucks and SUVs.

www.porschedelaware.com

There is way more examples of both. I searched on auto trader.com .

Conclusion. - I put a strong sell on these cars for over two years . Right now its a reversal to a strong buy in my opinion !!

The shown price is the just the msrp sticker price for that particular car. I can almost guarantee you walk into that dealership and try and buy it, there is ADM on top.

 

The shown price is the just the msrp sticker price for that particular car. I can guarantee you walk into that dealership and try and buy it, there is ADM on top.

The CPO prices are exact . I did say I think that was a typo but it was the lowest . They wil have a hard time listing a car for 86K and then asking for more with a straight face. They can eat the ADM because there are TONS of cars available . The tides have turned . The 911 really plunged and the Macan is not far behind .

Dealerships are faced with clinging to the sellers mentality but when they have cars that aren't getting sold they will have to adjust. If there is any time to squash the ADM request it is now . I think that is what people started to do . They walked out !!

 

Yes, referring to the new white one only. Not a typo. It's a new car and just the proper MSRP price for that build as it should be (not the true asking price or what it will sell for price which will be higher). Also a bit lower spec build for GTS with No SC and NO surround view etc.

 

I bought a lot car in 2016 with a bare spec (17 GTS) when my car was crashed . 8 way seats, no full leather , no SC , no surround . When I traded it that car only cost me 12K to own for 2 years . A stripped GTS really holds well.

I am saying that if they ask for more they wil not sell it . Too many fish in the pond for them to be greedy.

 

I'm seeing similar drops with boats, vacation homes, motorcycles. A couple of things going on here: recession, belt tightening due to inflation and recession, higher interest rates and a drop in the post Covid demand for toys.

 

I spoke to an SA for the white Macan GRS in Delaware. They are selling at MSRP and no ADM - can confirm.

Build is weird - it’s a base GTS with extended leather package and that’s all. No other options.

 

I spoke to an SA for the white Macan GRS in Delaware. They are selling at MSRP and no ADM - can confirm.

Build is weird - it’s a base GTS with extended leather package and that’s all. No other options.

That makes sense. Tough MSRP sale in normal times with that build.

 

Also, I spoke to SAs in California and one told me a $20k ADM on a 92k GTS. LOL.

Found another in California who also agreed to sell with no ADM, which was very surprising and was surprised pleasantly.

 

Also, I spoke to SAs in California and one told me a $20k ADM on a 92k GTS. LOL.

Found another in California who also agreed to sell with no ADM, which was very surprising and was surprised pleasantly.

A dealer in CA at no ADM on a GTS of in in stock (on the lot) vehicle? That would be a deal here in CA (unless a really crazy weird build). If not in stock then its a pipe dream demand order to sit on a waitlist.

 

Let's just hope for everyone that the world (when it comes to prices and availability of everything) anything gets back to pre covid one these days in the not so distant future.

 

I just like short supply and almost impossible to get....on all luxury items 👍

 

The housing market seems to be stabilizing. And possibly vehicles as well. Yet I heard credit card debt is at an all time high. Almost, maybe, everyone who recently bought a vehicle, a home, a boat overpaid for it. Gas and food prices take off, no money, get a credit card! Bills comin’ due soon. My son bought a 17 MB GTS, kept and drove it for TWO years and sold it for $7k MORE than he originally bought it for. He would not pull that off today. You’re right. Markets are changing.

 

I think the people who did in fact pay 50-100K over MSRP will feel real pain from that immediate gratification . Even if money was not the concern no one likes too feel robbed . I also feel that dealerships who insulted long time repeat buyers lost their loyalty and it will change their perspective in the future buying process . Dealerships who did show respect and decency have made life time buyers happy .

 

I agree that the car market will eventually drop but not before they try to prop it up as long as they possibly can. Trust me when I say they will keep the excuses alive and not admit there is a bear market for cars. The best time to buy will be when there is real-worldwide blood in the streets.

The car you listed in question might as well be a naked GTS. No Sport chrono, 8 way seats etc... The price is still high for this imo. Honestly, they shouldn't even build a GTS like that.

 

I agree that the car market will eventually drop but not before they try to prop it up as long as they possibly can. Trust me when I say they will keep the excuses alive and not admit there is a bear market for cars. The best time to buy will be when there is real-worldwide blood in the streets.

The car you listed in question might as well be a naked GTS. No Sport chrono, 8 way seats etc... The price is still high for this imo. Honestly, they shouldn't even build a GTS like that.

My first 911 was a totally stripped car . I could not even afford it and was 1300 short at the final price. I got up to leave and they told me to sit back down . They sold me the car. It had little wheels , leatherette, manual seats , and was basic white . I loved that car !! I still remember driving it home 27 years ago .

 

I’m referring to the semi-average guy that ‘thinks’ he can handle overpaying then realize they don’t like it, not fast enough, not pretty enough, wasn’t aware of the cost of simple upkeep, gas mileage, interest rates, job insecurities…. Not those with lots of disposable coin lying around. And, have you noticed a lot more ‘classics’ getting sold also? Who is paying $$$$$$ for cars that were crap back in the 60’s and still are to this day? I know. I worked on most of them as a mechanic.

 

Bruce...I can't agree with you regarding the cars from the 60's. I don't think they were crap, in fact, it was nice to be able to work on your own car without the need for computers and specialized equipment. As nice as my Macan GTS is I still love the feel of an old four speed hooked up to an 8 cylinder muscle car. Yes they are "crude" by today's standard but there's something about the sound and mechanical feel of those old cars that is pure magic. As to whether or not they are worth the big bucks, that's a different question but many may also ask is the GTS worth $90k ++? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

 

I wonder if 911 prices are dropping because the summer is over unless you live in southern florida or somewhere that does not get snow. I would think dealers do not want to get stuck with cars after over charging people for so long. I just hope all the flippers get stuck with cars and can’t afford to keep them and take a lose, I can’t stand greedy people.

 

I don’t wish for financial harm to anyone, but flippers and greedy dealerships are like cancer.
Prices are coming down and the economy is not looking so hot, plus it cost more to finance a loan.

 

This is happening on all luxury cars. The used market on X7's has fallen by ~15k in the last 2 months. My friend is a used car manager at a large BMW store and he told me that EVERY. SINGLE. X7 that they have on the used lot is going to be sold underwater.

 

Glad to hear the dealers are starting to feel it. Msrp selling will change when cars are sitting on lot and they have to start paying the loan in them. I have noticed dealers are starting to get cars in that are not sold.

 

I think we are going into recession territory over next 6 months and economy will suffer but don't see a big drop in Porsche Macan prices. Demand is still high, allocations are still limited, supply chain issues still exist with Bose, Wheels, etc. I wouldn't look at one stripped GTS and make an assumption on all cars, I wouldn't buy that one either, even at a discount. Most Porsche buyers are ordering what they want and not settling for lesser vehicles. Dealers may not get the big ADM for certain cars but will still do OK around MSRP or better.

 

With the Macan it has softened . 2022 cars are already a year old and there are too many out there on used lots to cry "scarcity" . Although not as dramatic as the 911 used price drop its starting .

 

When I went in’18 with a bud to pick up his GT3 from factory and do LeMans, the ‘Ring, etc., he had to pony up about $30k for VAT which was refunded- 90+ days later after car delivered in Scottsdale.

 

If I made a $5k deposit for a car a few months ago and it arrives 4 months later next month, and prices have dropped, will I be able to reduce the cost that I signed for when I made the deposit?

 

No. New cars are still selling at MSRP. It’s the used cars which have become more plentiful and Isat on lots longer. What prompted me to see the drop was the dramatic price of the 911. Those cars which they tried to sell for $80,000 over MSRP did not sell and now they’re nervous. The Macan is beginning to follow that lead just not as sensational.

 

grim said:

Across the automotive marketplace, like I said before, there is "need" and "want". Those that bought at the peak because of "want" will likely regret it even at MSRP. Depreciation will happen, it always does, and few, when buying new, think of TCO. The cars are just commodities, appliances to be bought and sold. Whereas those buying out of
"need" did so because of supply and demand and had no choice. There is a huge difference between buying because of need than want.

That is why I distinguish between want and need. Those that need had no choice.

OTOH, those that want or “love” cars made their beds now will live with the depreciation, Chasing baubles, well can be costly.

I would love me some dry aged ribeyes everday but for todays prices, they can rot. I dont NEED them 🥩

To most, cars are washing machines or microwaves, just expensive appliances.

I must be somehow missing your point because while I get the difference between want and need and most vehicles should not be bought and thought of as an investment I don’t get your point about which buyer will be more regrettful If prices are high and I know that and make a decision of my choice to go out and buy a Porsche or ribeye in that market because I want one, why would I regret that if prices fell later down the road? I knowingly chose to buy at a time when prices were skyrocketing, accepted that and am now enjoying my purchase. On the other hand if there was a need so I made the purchase because I had to, knowing prices were high, I think I’d likely regret that more when prices came down because I didn’t have the option to delay the purchase because of my need. My logic says having a choice buying a want is better than being forced to buy a need in a wrong market. Just like I’m sure people who renewed mortgages 6 months ago and locked in early though their choice have less regrets than those that waited until now and have no choice and need to remortgage now.

 

I must be somehow missing your point because while I get the difference between want and need and most vehicles should not be bought and thought of as an investment I don’t get your point about which buyer will be more regrettful

I'm agreeing with @///Bruce. Start at post 25, forgetting specifics, a summary

25 - many people are overpaying for all kinds of things
32 - many will feel pain ... this is talking 911s so lets talk not specifically. But there is agreement there
36 - I want to see the pain on faces and credit scores when they sell the car, the home, the boat and get way upside down.
37 - the rich don't care
38 - I’m referring to the semi-average guy that ‘thinks’ he can handle overpaying then realize they don’t like it, not fast enough, not pretty enough, wasn’t aware of the cost of simple upkeep, gas mileage, interest rates, job insecurities…

lets stop there. Here is a current viral video of car dealership employee car payments.

In the "real world", not the world of auto forums or car dealerships, most people view cars as necessary evils, expensive, major appliances. You buy one when you need one. At some point in time they become more costly to repair than new or used car payments. We, here, don't live in the same world as "the average guy". The average guy does not think in terms of TCO. Listen to 129 cars The average buyer only cars about the bottom line, car payments. They can't spell TCO. That not to be demeaning but reality. Few think of long term maintenance nm depreciation. Those that chase new things are never satisfied because there is something always new. @///Bruce points about being underwater is exactly the point.

Now if the buyer doesnt care, that is going to be far rarer than those for who money has value but they just don't understand the true TCO.

If prices are high and I know that and make a decision of my choice to go out and buy a Porsche or ribeye in that market because I want one, why would I regret that if prices fell later down the road?

For the reasons above. While "you", someone in an auto forum might understand the full ramifications of impulse decisions, I would not count on "the average buyer" knowing it. Its a washing machine. Its not held in the same esteem as auto enthusiasts think.

I knowingly chose to buy at a time when prices were skyrocketing, accepted that and am now enjoying my purchase.

For many, they are not "enjoying" it anymore than they enjoy their clothes dryer. The pain comes when the car goes. All cars go, most end up in junk yards. Then they look back and see how much a loss they took. Some won't care. The money has no value. For others, the money has great value. Many don't understand TCO or never heard of it. Their life experience is limited.

Some just don't realize what will happen. They only see today. Their "want" was satisfied, immediate gratification is a current "thing" society has pushed, Got to have that pizza in 30 minutes or its free. The price to be paid comes down the road and that is where the regret comes. People don't always think of the future, only of their today.

 

@SD00 BTW, my dry aged ribeye reference came from July 4, 2021. For $48/lb, that steak can rot in the display case and the seller can go out of business. There are many choices. Once consumed, I might have had 15 minutes of pleasure and a day of regret for the waste of money. Besides, Lobster was cheaper that day. Imagine that, lobster cheaper than steak. Strange world.

if those who payed list or over list walked out the door, inflation would go down. Its all supply and demand. After two years of not being able to spend money, the wealthy are bursting with money to spend while the rest of the world struggles to get buy. So they throw money at luxuries from Rolexes to expensive handbags to cars, the cost be ***.

And this is another part of why inflation is so bad. Now imagine if they said NO, you can take your excessive fees and shove them. Instead, the want of instant gratification drives prices higher at the expense of the poorest amongst us. This effects all car models where demand outstrips supply. Walk away from outrageous fees or you feed inflationary prices.

 

If I’m a person that makes what? $25k-85k a year, have a family and ‘bills’ and either my daily driver breaks down OR they can’t afford the major repair, what do they do? They are obligated to buy something. Anything. Whether they can afford it or not. They have no choice. And the family and ‘bills’ are still there waiting. But now with a ‘bigger bill’. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

Remember: what is happening today has already happened before and will happen again.

 

Finally stupid people ran out of (not their) money

 

I think Gordon Gekko summed up borrowing and leverage debt best . From his speech in Money Never Sleeps .

 

Now we get to watch them try to push back from the table by defaulting on loans, homes, vehicles…

 

Where I lived, Arlington Va. zip code 22201 ever other house was in forclosure it was sad that way many people live way beyond their means. I see it happening again sadly. To many exotic where I live as well, and i do not consider a Porsche he an exotic.

 

Everyone who thinks that car is an expensive and major appliance should get a boat/helicopter/plane. Comparing to those cars are a walk in the park

 

I had been following 911 GTS prices over the last month . When I saw them take a sudden plunge I decided to look at the Macan GTS . Although not as dramatic (30K or more price drops) as the 911 there is still a significant drop. Plus there are Macan's available . It appears that some may haver backed out of 2022 cars after waiting all the way until 2023's are out only to find their one model year old car arrive . CPO cars also dropped .

I bounced this off a friend of mine and he has been watching too . Its been quick and in the last two weeks he said . I threw up the discussion on Rennlist and some feel it will, drop further while others tie it to the stock market drop . I don't agree because we all know any sudden change can push those cars back up or even further down . I look at it only as a present moment opportunity to buy if someone has been endlessly waiting for a slot or a car or is still being jerked around by their dealership .

I have only watched these two model and trims (911 and Macan GTS) .

1) 911 - Many of those cars that were asking 50K over MSRP NEVER got sold !!!!! One car that was asking over 200K is now under 190K . Another that was asking 199K is now 176K with a CPO and under 2K miles . Rennlist thread if interested Used GTS prices have softened - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

3) Macan GTS - There are new 2022 cars !!! As the 2023 arrives the 2022 is a model year old now . Given the price increase and the fact that this is all so sudden this might be the time to jump it . Inventories have cars WITH PICTURES OF THEM . CPO cars are in the 90's .

Here is an example pf a new car that I keep scratching my head if the price is a typo.

Find vehicles for sale in Newark DE

View Porsche Delaware's vehicles for sale in Newark DE. We have a great selection of new and used cars, trucks and SUVs.

www.porschedelaware.com

There is way more examples of both. I searched on auto trader.com .

Conclusion. - I put a strong sell on these cars for over two years . Right now its a reversal to a strong buy in my opinion !!

My 2023 Macan Brutha from Anotha Mutha,

The CPO prices are exact . I did say I think that was a typo but it was the lowest . They wil have a hard time listing a car for 86K and then asking for more with a straight face. They can eat the ADM because there are TONS of cars available . The tides have turned . The 911 really plunged and the Macan is not far behind .

Dealerships are faced with clinging to the sellers mentality but when they have cars that aren't getting sold they will have to adjust. If there is any time to squash the ADM request it is now . I think that is what people started to do . They walked out !!

@yrralis1 My 2023 Macan GTS brutha from anotha mutha, I got tired of waiting for my build and pulled the trigger on a CPO 2011 997.2 turbo s cab, one owner with 46k miles, black/tan. Older MY with decent miles but great condition, all dealership serviced with records, etc. Picking it up tomorrow. I paid asking price because there were several people interested and I had already lost out on a targa 4 gts, which the dealer had agreed to discount by only $2k when I found a comparable equipped version with few miles selling for $2k less. But they wouldn't drop the ask on this 2011 turbo s cab even by $2k given the interest. At these prices, I didn't want to dick around over $2k and lose another car I really liked. Will check back and enjoy your delivery photos! Keep the excellent posts coming.

 

Here my little anecdote regarding a new order Macan GTS. Three weeks ago I called a few dealers. All three offered me cars( yes, they had actual build slots) at MSRP ( with no BS extras) but made sure to let me know how lucky I was and they were only doing this because I am a good customer…ROFLMAO. Anyway, me being me, I asked for a discount. I wanted to buy a new Macan…pretty much just to change the color, because our current 2017 MGTS only has about 37k miles on it so still expect some good life out of it. ( We put less than 10k a year on it).

Heck…when I asked for a discount (only about $3k), you should have heard the outcry. You would have thought I pushed their grandmother down the stairs. “ You can’t even get a Kia without an ADM!” “ We have other customers wanting this car, you better hurry and grab it!” Well, I guess I snoozed so I lose. I told all three I’ll take it back up in December. Vaguely remember one saying something like. “ Don’t call us, we’ll call you”.

Anyway, I need another car like I need a hole in the head. Have a new Emira coming in March..well..maybe…if Lotus ever figures out how to build it. I had deposits down for a couple Cayman GTS from two dealers but cancelled them when my Lotus order was confirmed. ( both order demands at MSRP for over a year ...even though I had been offered cars with ADM I refused.) I was originally planning on getting both the Cayman and Emira but I still have a Boxster S from 2005 that my wife refuses to get rid of. I understand why. It’s almost broken in, LOL. ( it cost more for me to get one annual service on my Aston than I’ve paid in repair bills for the Boxster in over 15 years…gotta love Porsche).

BTW, I did a 2018 CGTS with European delivery a while back. It was a great experience. Porsche really know how to make a customer feel good. I just hate parking in Europe. Every parking space 10% too small. My understanding is that European deliveries don't cut into the dealer allocations. They get a replacement vehicle the following year on the Euro delivery so it's an extra car to the dealer.( but the dealer does get an extra charge so the margin is less) This doesn't apply to GT cars and some other specials, IIRC.

 

Here my little anecdote regarding a new order Macan GTS. Three weeks ago I called a few dealers. All three offered me cars( yes, they had actual build slots) at MSRP ( with no BS extras) but made sure to let me know how lucky I was and they were only doing this because I am a good customer…ROFLMAO. Anyway, me being me, I asked for a discount. I wanted to buy a new Macan…pretty much just to change the color, because our current 2017 MGTS only has about 37k miles on it so still expect some good life out of it. ( We put less than 10k a year on it).

Heck…when I asked for a discount (only about $3k), you should have heard the outcry. You would have thought I pushed their grandmother down the stairs. “ You can’t even get a Kia without an ADM!” “ We have other customers wanting this car, you better hurry and grab it!” Well, I guess I snoozed so I lose. I told all three I’ll take it back up in December. Vaguely remember one saying something like. “ Don’t call us, we’ll call you”.

Your post made me think of this article, enjoy: Porsche Is Sued by U.S. Dealership Ahead of IPO

 

I have been looking for a car for my 16 yo son. I wanted a car relatively new with all sorts of safety features. Started looking at Toyota, Honda and Subaru and I was shocked with what I found. All news cars are MSRP with no discount but there are none available to buy now. It is between 4 and 18 months depending on the model. Now, if you want a used CPO now they have some available BUT they cost way more than a new one. To give an example, a brand new RAV4 is around $30k. Same car, 2020 model and with 25k miles is available for $37k. WTF!!! I put down a deposit for 3 different cars and the one that gets here first I will buy.

 

BB lite auction prices come out Friday mornings

Today was a blood bath. Used cars that I saw are going down ... ⬇⬇⬇ That easy rides up during the pandemic ... You all knew it wasn't going to last forever. Funny, I used to read that time's aren't the same - meh. ALL things go back to an equilibrium and that ride is over.

 

At the time and what you wrote this post the stock market futures were down big and the market followed that lead all day. This after an entire week of selling. It’s going to be very quiet in show rooms. Granted they will be those who short the market but they are not the majority of long-term investors. Retail investors are generally long and they are feeling their calves bleeding right now. This is the time to buy!