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Not really, go onto thesamba.com, audizine.com or rennlist.com and you'll find like 2 decades of threads that go back and forth lol.
2 decades! Eeek, great dedication and expertise but possibly still unresolved :unsure:?

I landed on the Permatex as the best solution. It hasn't leak since (probably a year already). You can't beat that, about $15 in parts/materials + a little bit of time.
Yes, thanks, read your excellent description of the process and you've paved the way for others to take the leap and replace those two potentially broken screws.

Now we wait to see if any of the other billions of M8 screws on the engine might choose to call it a day suddenly :rolleyes:

Jules
 
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2 decades! Eeek, great dedication and expertise but possibly still unresolved :unsure:?



Yes, thanks, read your excellent description of the process and you've paved the way for others to take the leap and replace those two potentially broken screws.

Now we wait to see if any of the other billions of M8 screws on the engine might choose to call it a day suddenly :rolleyes:

Jules
Well, see people have these things called "opinions", and in discussion there's usually more than one way to resolve an issue :) But usually a consensus eventually develops on what others have used in practical experience and a best practice is revealed.

Which is what just happened here thanks to @Santirx - I just went back and re-read from page 58 up on the issue and saw your info again, so thank you for that, and glad you have had no issues since. My oil seep seems to be coming from the passengers (right) side so I'm not as lucky.

That Permatex 59214 is Teflon "pipe dope" thread sealant, which does work really well and makes sense to use here. I've used it (or something like it) mostly with back pipe and gas fittings, for natural gas and propane. It checks all the boxes for this application, and you've proved it.

One thing to point out is that the new bots are steel, not aluminum, so we'll have to see how the new bolts hold up over time when someone uses the Permatex. I expect results to be the same.
 
Well, see people have these things called "opinions", and in discussion there's usually more than one way to resolve an issue :) But usually a consensus eventually develops on what others have used in practical experience and a best practice is revealed.

Which is what just happened here thanks to @Santirx - I just went back and re-read from page 58 up on the issue and saw your info again, so thank you for that, and glad you have had no issues since. My oil seep seems to be coming from the passengers (right) side so I'm not as lucky.

That Permatex 59214 is Teflon "pipe dope" thread sealant, which does work really well and makes sense to use here. I've used it (or something like it) mostly with back pipe and gas fittings, for natural gas and propane. It checks all the boxes for this application, and you've proved it.

One thing to point out is that the new bots are steel, not aluminum, so we'll have to see how the new bolts hold up over time when someone uses the Permatex. I expect results to be the same.
I had to replace both sides. I found passenger’s side to be easier than driver’s side. If you remove the air filter housing, you’ll have good access. Air filter housing removal is not that bad.
 
This is a very helpful and informative thread. I have a 2017 Macan Turbo that was just diagnosed with this issue on Friday during a routine oil change at a reputable independent shop. Car is 7 months out of warranty with only 10,400 miles. Dealer wants to do its own diagnosis before seeking any goodwill coverage from Porsche. They’re telling me the diagnosis alone will be $450-$900. Can I get a sanity check here? Isn’t it crazy to charge up to $900 for a problem that has already been diagnosed and may only be a couple hundred dollars to repair? I’m willing to pay something for the diagnosis ($150?) but up up $900 seems like a rip.
 
Find another dealer.

i asked my dealer to take a look during my brake fluid flush. Diagnostic charge? Zero.

The key is ask them to look while getting some other service done. For a diagnostic only you‘re going to get hit for the time. And yes, $900 is them taking your wallet and laughing at you.

Find another dealer.
 
This is a very helpful and informative thread. I have a 2017 Macan Turbo that was just diagnosed with this issue on Friday during a routine oil change at a reputable independent shop. Car is 7 months out of warranty with only 10,400 miles. Dealer wants to do its own diagnosis before seeking any goodwill coverage from Porsche. They’re telling me the diagnosis alone will be $450-$900. Can I get a sanity check here? Isn’t it crazy to charge up to $900 for a problem that has already been diagnosed and may only be a couple hundred dollars to repair? I’m willing to pay something for the diagnosis ($150?) but up up $900 seems like a rip.
I paid $191 CDN (~$150 USD). This was fully refunded when the leak was confirmed. Your dealer appears to be scamming you.

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I paid $191 CDN (~$150 USD). This was fully refunded when the leak was confirmed. Your dealer appears to be scamming you.

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That appears to be a leak from the "oil filter cap" and not the screws related to the TCC.

Jules
 
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That appears to be a leak from the "oil filter cap" and not the screws related to the TCC.

Jules
Please have a look at my previous posts. Post #66 is the initial diagnostic invoice. Post #12 is for the final diagnostic invoice. As you can see in post #12 it was indeed a TCC leak.

The technician said "slightly loose filler cap", but didn't indicate any oil in the area. Tech did see oil around the oil filter housing. Interesting, it was that dealer that did my previous oil change. At the time the tech didn't comment on the oil stains on the top of the belly pan cover. It was my local mechanic that prompted me to go to the dealer and ask for the TCC inspection.

^^-- A few people have commented in this threat that Porsche seems to be intentionally ignoring this problem when doing other work on the car. For example, when pulling the belly pan cover and seeing oil on the cover and bottom of the engine, they should at a minimum have a look and identify it as a possible TCC or valve cover gasket problem and suggest to the Advisor that it be inspected as part of the current service. It's a paid-for inspection ... why not ..... unless Porsche is ignoring the problem.
 
^^-- A few people have commented in this threat that Porsche seems to be intentionally ignoring this problem .....
They sure are but I'll resist a pointless rant :mad:. It would be hugely helpful if they could just come clean on the issue and give us some facts, but they won't.

I'm wondering if it's possible to have broken screws prior to having the leak problem develop. For that reason it could be worth checking even if there isn't a leak.

FAST, I get what you're saying about post #12, though it wasn't obvious from post #66

Jules
 
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I would be wary if you're out of warranty. Service advisors will try to deploy a way to throw an engine-out job at you because they know they could bill you for whatever amount whereas if you're under warranty, they're limited by the warranty rate. Hence another reason why if you're under warranty, they will NOT perform an engine-out procedure (anymore) to address the infamous leak but instead, go with the engine bolt replacement to supplement my previous statement (#32 & #35) on page 2 of this thread.
 
Well I’m back… I had the “two bolt fix” done by the dealer March of 2021. It appeared to have worked and my last oil change i noticed a very small amount of oil and just chalked that up to residual from the underbody cover.
Fast forward a few months to a week ago. My a/c went out and being me I decided I would fix it myself. Used some dye and found the leak. Ordered the replacement low pressure hose and proceeded to attempt a fix. Very quickly I realized that this was not really something I wanted to mess with. They really have stuff packed in there. Anyways… this allowed me the opportunity to dig a little further than I have had to before. I removed the driver wheel liner and noticed a pretty fair amount of oil build up on the intercooler hoses and the area around. Pulled an intercooler house and it was dry inside. I moved back over to the under side passenger area where i had found fresh oil and began to move my way up. I ended up on the top of the motor under the engine cover where I tracked the leak to the “valley” below each of the valve covers where the injectors are. There was a decent amount of oil that has been there for a while so I mixed up some simple green and cleaned it off.
Fast forward a week and I decided that should be enough time to see where the leak was coming from. I noticed that there is a small amount of oil in the areas which had previously been clean an noticed that oil appeared to be leaking from timing cover bolts. As I looked closer I noticed that one of the bolts on the passenger side was missing the head (I’ll circle that in red). I grabbed a T30 and decided to check all the other ones I could see/reach. Using only my hand I found three other loose bolts. Two of which were broken off and barely hanging on.
I called Porsche Plano whereI has the initial fix was done (not really sure what kind of answer I was looking for…) and get disconnected twice trying to contact a service advisor. Try again and get a parts guy and explain briefly my problem. He said that the same aluminum bolt is still recommended.
So here I sit in my thinking chair wondering where I should go from here. I’m out of warranty so I’m thinking I will order the steel bolts and replace the ones I can reach. I can only assume the service department never checked these bolts the first time. One of the bolts I may not be able to replace because the end is not exposed. (I’ll circle the three bolts that were still in the cover in yellow.)
So I guess this rant may belong in this thread. Maybe the oil leak thread. Just wanted everybody to be aware that there are potentially more broken bolts. I haven’t seen anything ever mentioned about these. I’m struggling to enjoy this vehicle…
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Great investigative work but it does seem to confirm that these bolts, all of them, are not up to the job. No wonder Porsche isn't saying anything. A cursory check of the number of these fasteners used to hold the engine together is truly scary and a recall to replace all of them might as well be "install a new engine".

Seems to confirm my point above about the possibility of having broken screws even before there's any oil leaks.

The one you can't replace ... is that the one circled in yellow in pic 2? If so, I think you've just made a good case for replacing each and every screw that has goes into something with a blind end.

Jules
 
Sorry for the formatting guys. My thinking chair involves alcohol.

Yes, the yellow circle in the second picture is going to be the problem bolt.

It’s interesting that the new bolts come with a washer. I’m guessing to keep it from moving? It looks like there are two more a little deeper that I’ll be able to get to as well. I’m really hoping that will get the job done. If it doesn’t I’m not totally sure I have the desire to remove the whole front of the car… but I’m cheap and I have trust issues so that’s probably what will end up happening.

Was the torque spec for the new steel bolt decided? I feel like I’ve screenshot a bunch of stuff but I can’t find it. I think for the time being I’ll order eight bolts. Six for the top that i just found and then I’m going to go ahead and replace the two that Porsche did since I don’t trust them.

I’ve got some video I took that I may try and post on YouTube. I’ll need to edit it some but I’ve never messed with that so it might be a few days.
 
Another brief update. I called around to a few dealerships today to see if i could get ahold of the bolts and washers. Porsche Dallas was the only one that had the bolts and washers. He had eight of them but they were all reserved. I asked him if he could see what they were reserved for and he said they were all for Macans…

FCP Euro has them in stock for a lot cheaper if anybody is needing to order some.
 
[QUOTE="Bingr, post: 2700829, member: 155993
Another brief update. I called around to a few dealerships today to see if i could get ahold of the bolts and washers. Porsche Dallas was the only one that had the bolts and washers. He had eight of them but they were all reserved. I asked him if he could see what they were reserved for and he said they were all for Macans…

FCP Euro has them in stock for a lot cheaper if anybody is needing to order some.
[/QUOTE]

If you're talking about the steel screws they supply I wouldn't be too troubled about a genuine Porsche part. According to their part number they are screws for retaining one of the air bags. The washer does matter. Is it a split spring type washer, a wave spring washer or a plain [steel?] washer?
 
Yeah definitely not concerned about the steel bolts. FCP has the genuine stuff. The bolts were actually VW and the washers were Porsche. I’ll have to report back on the washers after i get them. Nobody has an actual picture of them so as of now it’s a mystery. Looks like they will be here by the end of the week hopefully.
 
If you're talking about the steel screws they supply I wouldn't be too troubled about a genuine Porsche part. According to their part number they are screws for retaining one of the air bags. The washer does matter. Is it a split spring type washer, a wave spring washer or a plain [steel?] washer?
Here’s a photo of the Aluminum M6x30 TCC fastener next to the steel M6x30 fastener and aluminum washer. The head of the steel fastener has a smaller diameter. The aluminum washer itself is pretty thick (maybe ~4mm) and has overall diameter roughly the same diameter as the original aluminum fastener head I removed.
Did anyone figure out what the actual required torque spec is for the steel M6x30 fastener is?
 

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Despite the torrential rains here in NJ today I soldiered along with my service appointment for the "two-bolt fix" to get the repair done and bring all of you the service invoice complete with part numbers for the steel bolts and aluminum washers. YMMV with your dealership/repair shop of choice.

$113.49 was my total:
  • 30 mins of labor at $190/hr = $95
  • 2 steel bolts = $2.04
  • 2 aluminum washers = $4.70
  • Sales tax = $7.05
Getting this done before there was a meaningful leak or having to deal with an engine-out service... priceless!

View attachment 254197
Just got a quote from Chandler Porsche in AZ to preform this two bolt upgrade. I do not know if there is a leak but glad I checked for a price. Chandler quoted $750.00 for the work I told them no thanks and will now take the car to an inde for the oil change as well. Another stroke job by a Porsche dealer. I used to travel 45 minutes one way to do business with them now they’ve lost all further business.

One word of advice get a price quote from your dealer first as some are not fair priced!
 
If you're talking about the steel screws they supply I wouldn't be too troubled about a genuine Porsche part. According to their part number they are screws for retaining one of the air bags. The washer does matter. Is it a split spring type washer, a wave spring washer or a plain [steel?] washer?
Sorry for the formatting guys. My thinking chair involves alcohol.

Yes, the yellow circle in the second picture is going to be the problem bolt.

It’s interesting that the new bolts come with a washer. I’m guessing to keep it from moving? It looks like there are two more a little deeper that I’ll be able to get to as well. I’m really hoping that will get the job done. If it doesn’t I’m not totally sure I have the desire to remove the whole front of the car… but I’m cheap and I have trust issues so that’s probably what will end up happening.

Was the torque spec for the new steel bolt decided? I feel like I’ve screenshot a bunch of stuff but I can’t find it. I think for the time being I’ll order eight bolts. Six for the top that i just found and then I’m going to go ahead and replace the two that Porsche did since I don’t trust them.

I’ve got some video I took that I may try and post on YouTube. I’ll need to edit it some but I’ve never messed with that so it might be a few days.
I don't think anyone has actually posted the torque spec for the M6 Steel fastener and aluminum washer swap yet. I think Santirx mentioned using 9 NM plus additional 45 degrees clockwise tightening rotation. The Steel fastener specs will likely be different.

As it stands right now in my case with steel fastener and aluminum washer, I'm at least at 9 to 10 NM plus additional 45 degrees before I could notably say I think the seepage has stopped on the driver side. My guess is I'm at about 11-12 NM at this point as I've verified that my mini torque wrench clicked at 9 NM and then I continued to wrench further 45 degrees further with a slim 1/4" hex head socket wrench. A typical Grade 8.8 M6 fastener has max torque spec of 11.8 NM. I'm still working on the passenger side and will run motor for 30 minutes and inspect tonight. I'm also using the Permatex high temp thread sealant which should in theory lower the required torque requirement...

My first attempt before being able to fit my torque wrench into the slot was done by feel which I don't recommend anybody try to do because I still had a little seepage on passenger side and greater seepage from driver side. If it helps, something in the range of 3" depth from the tip of the T30 head to the back of the torque wrench would fit best. At 4" depth, I was able to barely get it to fit onto the passenger side, but no go for fitting on the driver side.

5/4/22 Update:
I had the torque wrench set at 10 NM and snugged both Steel screws up while engine was cold. Both screws were coated with high temp thread sealant, so can be treated as a lubricated fastener. Before running the engine, I wiped cleaned both sides down with alcohol water and paper towel. I then ran the engine for 20 minutes with the inspection camera taking a photo every 10 mins to try and capture progress of any oil seepage.
Passenger Side: After 20 minutes, I could clearly see a light but distinct oil seepage line from the TCC gasket line just below where it intersects with the valve cover. I then shut the motor off and wiped the area off to confirm that there was still oil seepage on the paper towel. Being impatient and not wanting to wait a day for it to cool down, I decided continue to torquing the Steel fastener on the warmed up engine at 10 NM again which rotated easily another 45 degrees to 60 degrees before the wrench clicked.

Driver Side: After 20 minutes of running, the camera could not detect any seepage at all. This is the one that I believed to have been resolved the day before already. After turning off the engine, I went ahead and put a paper towel onto the area to see if I could detect any oil on the paper. I was able to find just trace amounts of oil on the paper towel. It was faint but there. With the engine still warm, I proceeded to tighten the driver side TCC fastener to 10 NM as I did on the opposite side and able to rotate nearly 90 degrees before hitting 10 NM.

Final Test: With both sides cleaned off lubricated screws torqued to 10 NM on a warmed up engine, I ran the engine for 30 minutes total and took a photo during that run every 10 minutes. I was unable to detect anymore seepage coming from either side on the camera after 30 minutes. I turned off the vehicle, removed the air filters once again and wiped the TCC screw area off with a paper towel to see if I could detect any seepage on the paper. To my surprise, the paper towel was finally clean on both sides. Finally no more seepage. My process was definitely not the best and I probably should have been torquing with the engine cooled down, but I was out of patience to wait another day to resolve this issue. If I had done all this with a cold engine, my non-professional presumption would be that the cold torque spec is near 11 NM, but take this with a grain of salt until we have the Porsche torque spec information.

Just wanted to share my journey and results with the 2-bolt TCC fix. In hindsight, I should have called around to dealer service departments to ask what the cold torque spec for this steel M6 fastener should be. That would have made this fix happen in a fraction of the time without having to continually check after running and snugging up the fasteners until the seepage stopped. Also, I should have been wearing heat resistant gloves as I burned the top of my hand a little on the hot engine while wiping up some dirty dried up oil I found. 🤕

Parts used:
Steel Screws: N91097101
Aluminum Washer: 99902519330
Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant coated on screw threads
 

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