[yrralis1]

BMW really isn't "ahead of the leasing spectrum" if they artificially ***** their cars out. The market pays what the car is worth and will buy a car that's worth buying and lease one that's worth leasing. Macan speaks for itself in this regard. The BMW is a cheaper car, simply put.

Also the Macan option list is one of its biggest advantages. Like a true premium/specialty car, you can personalize it and customize it as much as you'd like, at a cost. It's an enthusiast driven formula and will ensure that no two cars are alike, this being antithesis to "fleet car" status. The X4, a much more mass-market, ease-of-manufacturing style with its bundles and less personalization, less consumer centric. I think this is a big Macan advantage. The Macan is more expensive because it's a more desirable and special car that outclasses the X4 (think 911S vs M3).

The Macan S will outperform the X4 3.0 hands down. The Macan Turbo will outperform it a little more, yet at a much larger premium. IMO in this 3 way, the S is best positioned.

I do not like leasing . However , BMW nearly leads the pack of luxury cars in percent of cars leased and Porsche isn't even on the list .BMW not only subvents their leases but offers high residual programs , reasonable rates , and low payments on select vehicles. They also offer exit strategies and convenience in just about every category and that's why their leasing customer retention is huge .


Porsche on the other hand will cream the value of their own car and have MRM factors which define the awful configurations that sit on most dealership lots (unsold and often times unleased for months) .


"BMW is the cheaper car" - Compared with Porsche I agree but that's what keeps BMW customers . It's that same pricing comparison which keeps Porsche owners away from exotic cars (Ferrari. Mclaren, etc) . I agree on the mass marketing concept too. When a car offers bang for the buck it attracts a buying segment . The BMW segment is looking for luxury, sport, and convenience with a defined cost . Even though free service is fused into the purchase price it does become an established boundary .


I disagree on personalization . Look at any flagship Turbo S (991, Panamera,Cayenne) . Just about every option is included as standard . Sure one can order deviated stitching or special dial colors but the main gear is on every model . It's the base models which become a mess of decision making choices .

 

[K-A]

I do not like leasing . However , BMW nearly leads the pack of luxury cars in percent of cars leased and Porsche isn't even on the list .BMW not only subvents their leases but offers high residual programs , reasonable rates , and low payments on select vehicles. They also offer exit strategies and convenience in just about every category and that's why their leasing customer retention is huge .


Porsche on the other hand will cream the value of their own car and have MRM factors which define the awful configurations that sit on most dealership lots (unsold and often times unleased for months) .


"BMW is the cheaper car" - Compared with Porsche I agree but that's what keeps BMW customers . It's that same pricing comparison which keeps Porsche owners away from exotic cars (Ferrari. Mclaren, etc) . I agree on the mass marketing concept too. When a car offers bang for the buck it attracts a buying segment . The BMW segment is looking for luxury, sport, and convenience with a defined cost . Even though free service is fused into the purchase price it does become an established boundary .


I disagree on personalization . Look at any flagship Turbo S (991, Panamera,Cayenne) . Just about every option is included as standard . Sure one can order deviated stitching or special dial colors but the main gear is on every model . It's the base models which become a mess of decision making choices .

I don't think any of that about BMW leasing is a positive for the brand from a product and enthusiast perspective (yes from a consumer perspective). BMW do it because they have to, to remain viable. Porsche has insanely higher margins, a much bigger cachet. Porsche leasing their cars like BMW would destroy their "halo". As BMW have terrible resale value due to their leasing practices. Porsche resale crushes BMW's. I have an insanely good deal on a 5 Series lease right now. But it doesn't help me aspire to want another as a dream car. Porsche's strategy does. BMW sell ("rent") premium car reality in volume, Porsche sell icons and dreams. That's at least what they want you to believe, and judging by their success, it works.

Porsche has earned a culture of people who actually buy their cars. That alone puts them in a league of their own, and is almost impossible to garner in this industry. It also allows their cars to age with much more grace, and retain resale. The "lease then throw away" approach makes aging BMW's and Mercedes', etc. throwaways compared to how they were back in the day.

A 911 Turbo S is already an exclusive and expensive car. A Macan S has a very low starting MSRP and everything else will cost you. The individuality and enthusiast-centric optioning is what helps Porsche garner the reputation that allows them industry leading margins that other automakers could only dream about. Why would they give that up for a run of the mill approach? Those margins are why they can continue to reinvest into keeping their cars industry leaders.

It's just different business models. But as BMW increasingly cave to the "mass market", Porsche do it more carefully by ensuring that they cling to their core values and maintain more boutique and enthusiast centric.

 

[yrralis1]

I don't think any of that about BMW leasing is a positive for the brand from a product and enthusiast perspective (yes from a consumer perspective). BMW do it because they have to, to remain viable. Porsche has insanely higher margins, a much bigger cachet. Porsche leasing their cars like BMW would destroy their "halo". As BMW have terrible resale value due to their leasing practices. Porsche resale crushes BMW's. I have an insanely good deal on a 5 Series lease right now. But it doesn't help me aspire to want another as a dream car. Porsche's strategy does. BMW sell ("rent") premium car reality in volume, Porsche sell icons and dreams. That's at least what they want you to believe, and judging by their success, it works.

Porsche has earned a culture of people who actually buy their cars. That alone puts them in a league of their own, and is almost impossible to garner in this industry. It also allows their cars to age with much more grace, and retain resale. The "lease then throw away" approach makes aging BMW's and Mercedes', etc. throwaways compared to how they were back in the day.

A 911 Turbo S is already an exclusive and expensive car. A Macan S has a very low starting MSRP and everything else will cost you. The individuality and enthusiast-centric optioning is what helps Porsche garner the reputation that allows them industry leading margins that other automakers could only dream about. Why would they give that up for a run of the mill approach? Those margins are why they can continue to reinvest into keeping their cars industry leaders.

It's just different business models. But as BMW increasingly cave to the "mass market", Porsche do it more carefully by ensuring that they cling to their core values and maintain more boutique and enthusiast centric.

Porsche does cater to a culture of buyers and leasing generally attracts a short term attention deficit shopper . I agree with you . But also note that Porsche has greatly evolved since VW stepped in bring along with it some of the VW issues . The once nearly hand built simplistic car has become a newfangled list of options . The quality is still there but Porsche today is not what it was in the past .


In terms of leasing Porsche was even less sophisticated in the past than present . I believe the reason why Porsche hasn't competed with BMW leasing is because they are not up to speed in that department .


And BMWs do not necessarily plummet in depreciation . Granted the 6 and 7 series are pathetic but the M3 and 3 series in general does hold value and who says all Porsches hold value ? Just like BMW some Porsches do and others don't . I can think of a few cars of both manufactuers which I was happy with resale and a few that I wasn't .


You can't possibly believe that your MSRP 65K Macan S isn't going to take a loss in value over time and better or worse than a comparable BMW. If so I feel you are kidding yourself (perhaps because you want the car ).


I'm not making the case for the X4 . I don't even like the X4. I'm just saying that that everyone wants to think that he has the best so most people go to great lengths to rationalize the choices they make .

 

[K-A]

Porsche does cater to a culture of buyers and leasing generally attracts a short term attention deficit shopper . I agree with you . But also note that Porsche has greatly evolved since VW stepped in bring along with it some of the VW issues . The once nearly hand built simplistic car has become a newfangled list of options . The quality is still there but Porsche today is not what it was in the past .


In terms of leasing Porsche was even less sophisticated in the past than present . I believe the reason why Porsche hasn't competed with BMW leasing is because they are not up to speed in that department .


And BMWs do not necessarily plummet in depreciation . Granted the 6 and 7 series are pathetic but the M3 and 3 series in general does hold value and who says all Porsches hold value ? Just like BMW some Porsches do and others don't . I can think of a few cars of both manufactuers which I was happy with resale and a few that I wasn't .


You can't possibly believe that your MSRP 65K Macan S isn't going to take a loss in value over time and better or worse than a comparable BMW. If so I feel you are kidding yourself (perhaps because you want the car ).


I'm not making the case for the X4 . I don't even like the X4. I'm just saying that that everyone wants to think that he has the best so most people go to great lengths to rationalize the choices they make .

For sure I think the Macan will hold its value better. BMW's all depreciate pretty solidly except for M3's and maybe some others. Any car with a business model like them do. All premium cars depreciate but all Porsche's right now hold much better value than comparable Bimmer's. Panamera, Cayenne, etc. I think the Macan might hold even better than those two.

BMW flood the market with artificially incentivized leases on higher volume cars. These cars depreciate 10+% before the first contact is even signed (discounts). There's no case for the average Porsche depreciating more than the average BMW. Porsche's (intended) culture of buying also protects that.

There's no way Porsche isn't "up to speed" in leasing. It's not rocket science. They'd destroy their brand cachet thus high margins with BMW or Mercedes like "throwaway leasing". They have VW backing them which knows a thing or two about leasing.

Porsche have a unique business model that generates an exotic like appeal, decent volume, and leading margins. They don't want to be BMW with leasing. Their option list is the most fun part. Why try and make them like just another generic car with limited options rendering all cars clones of each other? That'd ruin the experience and novelty.

 

[K-A]

I have a 5 Series that has a similar MSRP to my Macan. Guess which one I'd pay practically sticker for and actually buy due to it selling me on the experience, not to mention pay way more for? Guess which one I'd only rent for a massive discount? I love both in different ways. One is buying into a dream, the other is buying a great car that markets itself as aspiration yet models itself after mass consumerism appliance. The other, actually holds onto its dream car status, regardless of its price.

Believe me, Porsche's biggest strength is that they don't have to resort to Mercedes/BMW like leasing. They have no desire to cash in on their brand and milk it in that way, and they're in a position where they don't have to.

Audi also upholds the more "dignified" no "lease throwaway" culture very purposefully to build up a cachet that BMW and Mercedes garnered in the past during their own rises. And it's working wonders in getting Audi right alongside revered BMW and Mercedes in brand appeal and cachet.

For the record, I love BMW. Best car I've owned so far and best experience yet. But they don't compete with Porsche, literally they are extremely different brands. Porsche is like an exotic nowadays between the two, as BMW expand onto so many segments re branding the exact same chassis, and discount/incentive/rent their cars in a diluted fashion. Porsche expand so much more concisely and with such focus that it comes across as more an art than a boardroom decision. They sell that image and walk the walk.

 

[gobobbie]

Wow! Color me shocked. No LED taillights on any F30 for the entire generation is a disaster. The E90 facelift even has LED taillights for Bimmer's sake!

I had an e93 with full LED rear DRLs, brake lights and indicators. They looked hot! Then they brought in the 3 series / 4 series with the cheap ass halogen lights, they look so cheap. That has been my biggest objection to the current BMW line up (with a few exceptions) the finishing (mirrors, headlights, tail lights, detailing) all looks cheaper than a 1990s Korean hatchback.

 

[MrMarc]

Ventilated seats are what sold me!

 

[MrSam]

I agree very much with @K-A..

I am/was very happy with BMW, but it's comparing apples with oranges experience and ownership wise.

Also, with Porsche we all more or less 'complain' but pay the same for options, with BMW the (random/lease) discounts are destroying their brand image/value.

Our company parking lot holds over 200 beemers, but only 1 macan: mine.

 

[Donkey]

Each brand is very different and each user experience is different based on miles/usage. That being said my experience with the competition: 2001 Mercedes CLK 430(new) - loved it, super reliable, great V8, very comfy.(7 years owned), 2006 BMW M5(used, 12k miles) - bland interior, beast over 50mph, clunky and gas wh*re in lower gears, very comfy active seats, plenty small issues....usually electronic, bad menu/computer system. (owned 4 years), 2013 Audi S4(new) - Very fast, smooth gears, stunning interior, very good computer system and controls/steering, very uncomfortable hard seats. ( 1 year).

I figured I would write this considering I owned all three brands people will most likely compare to or come from. As for the X4, I just don't think it's worth comparing, then again I never liked the look of the Range Evoque and don't think it's worth comparing either, but people gush over it. I've driven many friends cars, 335's, X5's, S550's, Amg's etc. Don't worry about what others like, it's about what fits you best. That being said the above three brands all sell this many vehicles in the US, Audi, 158k, BMW 200K+, Merc 200k+. Porsche sold over 40k last year for the first time ever.

My experience owning the Macan S a month: The smoothest ride, stunning interior and amazingly comfortable seats, and I love the design. And it's kind of nice they won't make a ton(at least for now)...but given the reviews and owner feedback...I have no doubt this will be back ordered for some time to come.

 

[santastico]

Have been leasing BMW X5 for the last 10 year. Our 2014 X5 is the 4th one we leased. We could spend the entire day here discussing if that is a good deal but in my case it makes total sense. It is my wife's car to drive to work and take kids to school everyday. It is our family car in the weekends. We don't put more than 12k miles/year in the car. She loves the car, the way it drives, the size, etc... We always keep the configuration around $65k and lease for 36 months. Every time our leasing is up for renewal I shop around and try other comparable SUVs which in my case are Mercedes ML, Range Rover Sport, Porsche Cayenne. I always try to config these cars with similar options and keep their MSRP very close to the X5. Not once in the last 10 years any other manufacturer could beat the deal I got from BMW. It is very simple: BMW has a massive leasing program and they are able to provide deals that no other manufacturer I mentioned above can beat. We currently lease a 2014 X5 with a MSRP of $67k for 36 months and 12k miles/year. I put less than $3k down which was the first payment, taxes and fees. My monthly lease is around $700/month. And during the 36 months I lease the car I have $0 maintenance costs. I have a dealer next to my work and when the car needs maintenance they give a 5 series loaner. I took that leasing deal to my Porsche SA. Even before I showed him he said if I was talking about leasing a Cayenne vs a X5 we should not even start the conversation. I asked him to run a quote anyway. For the same MSRP with almost all the similar options I had to put down almost $6k on the Cayenne and my monthly leasing payment was $1,240. Plus I had to pay for all maintenance costs during the 36 months period. When I talked to the Range Rover SA, he told me: I would never lease a RR. The Mercedes guy tried to offer me something more comparable. Still the down payment was close to $5k and monthly payments around $850. Thus, I am not discussing if leasing a BMW is a good deal or not. They way I see it is probably financially wrong but emotionally perfect. I get a very happy wife to drive an amazing car which I change every 3 years and I pay less than $800/month. I have the piece of mind my family is riding in a safe car, I will not have any expenses with maintenance and I really enjoy driving the car on the weekends. Would I buy a X5? Probably not. Would I lease one every 3 years? Definitely yes if BMW keeps the same strategy. when it was time for me to buy my new car I had no doubts in ordering a Macan.

 

[Inamik75]

I do not like leasing . However , BMW nearly leads the pack of luxury cars in percent of cars leased and Porsche isn't even on the list .BMW not only subvents their leases but offers high residual programs , reasonable rates , and low payments on select vehicles. They also offer exit strategies and convenience in just about every category and that's why their leasing customer retention is huge .


Porsche on the other hand will cream the value of their own car and have MRM factors which define the awful configurations that sit on most dealership lots (unsold and often times unleased for months) .


"BMW is the cheaper car" - Compared with Porsche I agree but that's what keeps BMW customers . It's that same pricing comparison which keeps Porsche owners away from exotic cars (Ferrari. Mclaren, etc) . I agree on the mass marketing concept too. When a car offers bang for the buck it attracts a buying segment . The BMW segment is looking for luxury, sport, and convenience with a defined cost . Even though free service is fused into the purchase price it does become an established boundary .


I disagree on personalization . Look at any flagship Turbo S (991, Panamera,Cayenne) . Just about every option is included as standard . Sure one can order deviated stitching or special dial colors but the main gear is on every model . It's the base models which become a mess of decision making choices .

Pretty Sober comment and like discussion has moved to brands other than the tired we have heard it comment of people who don't like the X4. Learning a lot about Porsche here, the X4 M 40i will be interesting vs the Macan Turbo.

 

[shaunmed]

To note how fake that image looks, the fuel tank is on the left. It just bothers me to look at that.

Its a rendering. You get bothered easily.

:xDoes this make you hot and bothered?

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Saved for a long paragraph about how Porsche today > BMW today.

Will update this after my Finance exam.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Pretty Sober comment and like discussion has moved to brands other than the tired we have heard it comment of people who don't like the X4. Learning a lot about Porsche here, the X4 M 40i will be interesting vs the Macan Turbo.

This place really is the 'Best Macan Forum' around. The maturity of the members is put simply, refreshing and enjoyable. Very knowledgable as well.

 

[ender]

Hilarious... I had my quota of laughs reading the thread... Buy X4 because Macan has so many problems LOL !!! Looks like somebody was trying real hard to justify his/her choice of X4 but could not even convince himself, hence the need to find support from other folks on X4 forum...

Thanks for posting...

This is a masterpiece picture I found from the thread. Sharing for others to Enjoy... ROTFLMAO...

.

Ummm... Guilty. The screen name Ender was already take on that forum

 

[Buckfever]

Just to be clear I'm not a fan but I saw a Black X4 tonight and it looked great, like a cleaned up X6. Wouldn't surprise me if it does better than expected especially given the heavy discounting, the free maintenance and the cheap extended.

 

[Rolltide86]

Just to be clear I'm not a fan but I saw a Black X4 tonight and it looked great, like a cleaned up X6. Wouldn't surprise me if it does better than expected especially given the heavy discounting, the free maintenance and the cheap extended.

The X4 is marginally less ugly than the X6. The X6 has ugly mastered. Every time my wife sees an X6, she exclaims "ugggh what the heck is that thing". The redesigns seem to make it worse, not better.

 

[Edgar]

Just to be clear I'm not a fan but I saw a Black X4 tonight and it looked great, like a cleaned up X6. Wouldn't surprise me if it does better than expected especially given the heavy discounting, the free maintenance and the cheap extended.

A black X4 at night. It's never going to look any better than that.

 

[Buckfever]

I find the marketing fascinating. I look at BMW, it was a brand that I admired and in my mind they fundamentally diluted the characteristics that made it exclusive and repositioned towards broad based appeal. So far the masses remained hooked. I think the X4 encapsulates what they try to do. They work to achieve some approximation of parity on quality, feign equal status with MSRP and then differentiate on price through heavy discounting and further on cost through the maintenance and extended. Also as has been mentioned on the leasing programs, they so severely lower barriers to entry and then they're hooked into ownership.

 

[SBU]

I used to love Beemers, had 4 M3's, loved them all. The X4 though is painful for me to look at. I do not like the lines from any angle, just does not sit well with my design aesthetic. I still like some beemers but def not X4/X6. Design seems to be going the way of MBZ where there is not one current model that I even look at.

I tend to stretch my budget to get what my eyes think is sexy! Macan def = sexy. I don't like the Cayenne much, go figure?