[DanNYC]

I would never let the dealer get away with the sunroof drain excuse (unless I did not clean the sundrains). If your drains really were cleaned, should be easy to show that clean drains don’t prevent the problem.

I will never ever let a car dealer extort money out of me to insure that a warranty remains valid.

 

[RidgeRunner0207]

I would never let the dealer get away with the sunroof drain excuse (unless I did not clean the sundrains). If your drains really were cleaned, should be easy to show that clean drains don’t prevent the problem.

I will never ever let a car dealer extort money out of me to insure that a warranty remains valid.

Trying to argue with Porsche about what they will pay for and what they will not, is like arguing with the IRS over what you owe in taxes..............or what they say you owe.........its a fight best avoided if at all possible.

They do what they want, sometimes the cost to fight over it out weighs the end result.

If the design sucks, and paying $250/2 years means they have no leg to stand on and nothing to say, then it is what it is, unless I video the procedure and have proof of the VIN and the time/day they can deny warranty for whatever they want for not adhering to a schedule.

Some fights are worth having, some are not, yeah its extortion, but the fact is they stated if we had had the drains cleaned by the dealer they would have ate both modules, now that its been documented, if it leaks again, they agreed to eat the modules under warranty for the next two years.

So I spent $250 to guarantee the repair moving forward.........>

 

[Teddis]

Is there a DIY on checking/cleaning these drains ???

 

[grim]

I've long assumed the reason for changing brake fluid on a street vehicle was to protect the system components from deterioration from moisture, such as metallic brake lines. Wrong?

Did you read above? 3% moisture in DOT 3 results in 100 degrees lower boiling point. Get on the brakes hard and Pfft ..... it boils away.Now the brake line problems might also be an issue but brake fade would seem to be the big issue. Watch. I'm sure someone will wonder where the videos are of cooked brakes on the street? How many people video record while driving? 3? Unless in Russia :laugh:

987S Cooked braked. Pedal to the floor. I assume he was either accelerating or braking as hard as possible

3:35 Cooked brakes

11:37 cooked brakes.

 

[Shark]

Did you read above?

Yes, my question was for a STREET vehicle (not for a car being tracked). I do understand the issue of what happens with repeated heavy braking, but that's not how I drive.

 

[DanNYC]

Shark, the answer to your question is yes and no. Protecting the system components is a long term issue, but the more immediate issue is to keep the fluid functioning properly under repeated heavy braking.

 

[Shark]

Shark, the answer to your question is yes and no. Protecting the system components is a long term issue, but the more immediate issue is to keep the fluid functioning properly under repeated heavy braking.

Thanks. Never knew brake fluid would contribute to brake fade in a normal street application. Always thought it was merely the brakes overheating. That's what I was asking.

 

[RidgeRunner0207]

Thanks. Never knew brake fluid would contribute to brake fade in a normal street application. Always thought it was merely the brakes overheating. That's what I was asking.

I hardly drive some of my garage queens, and when I do they are not beat on, nor raced, nor tracked, or ever braked very hard.

The Clutch and brake fluid gets nasty, even my Harley it gets nasty.

Brake Fluid is cheap and its easy to change, the stickler is Porsche and how they handle warranty if a failure occurs in the braking system.

I am more than capable to service or repair just about anything, but why should I if they will for performing a simple task, and its a ripoff price wise, but they use Porsche Approved fluids and its documented.

I like to gamble, literally, but I also hate fools bets, so I decided to not gamble with my money and gamble with Porsche's.

 

[PeterVV]

To me paying an absurd dealer price for a brake fluid flush is overkill. Sure there is some risk, but when is the last time you heard of any vehicle, Porsche or otherwise, needing a brake system repair under warranty having anything to do with brake fluid? It is such a rarity anymore.

Not suggesting anybody not change their brake fluid, just suggesting paying dealer prices for something really no more difficult than any other car is needless.

Although I guess I can understand after your experience with the sunroof drains. But I would not have let them get away with that one. Especially since it would not be difficult for you to demonstrate you know where the drains are and you cleaned them. Obviously you know for a fact that cleaning the sunroof drains does not prevent the damage you suffered on your car. Based on my experience, if you fought back and showed them you did in fact clean the drains and how you did it, I think they would've capitulated very quickly, except in the case if they really believed that the repairs were due to your negligence. But it sounds like you would have a little trouble convincing them of that.

Fighting the IRS is not always a lost cause. Been there, done that, our company prevailed over the IRS in tax court. Happens more often than they would like you to believe.

 

[Steve B in SD]

Thanks. Never knew brake fluid would contribute to brake fade in a normal street application. Always thought it was merely the brakes overheating. That's what I was asking.

They are one in the same--- overheating isn't a problem in and of itself, the risk is overheating the brakes is the prelude to brake fade. The heat generated is some of the braking energy being dissipated from the pads & rotors into the brake caliper and hence, the brake fluid. The boiling point of any particular fluid is where any contaminant water 'boils' out of suspension and becomes bubbles in the fluid line. When enough bubbles form behind the pistons in the calipers, the compressibility of the fluid spikes and the brake pedal goes to the floor, and, -- no brakes!


That defines brake fade caused by boiling of the fluid which in turn causes loss of hydraulic pressure. There is also brake fade possible when the pads get hotter than design temp of the friction material and the coefficient drops to where there is virtually no grip at the elevated temps.

 

[iconoclast]

...Why is anyone questioning this?...

I am not questioning the need for brake fluid flush in Porsches. Just the time interval in a very dry climate.
Warranty is not a factor for me. I paid Porsche to flush @ 2 years & not sure if I will pay them @ 4 years when my warranty is over anyways.

Years ago, a mechanic I trusted told me he tested my Jaguar XJ8 Brake fluid & it had no moisture & in this climate it does not need to be changed every 2 years. Jag uses DOT 4, has ABS & manufacturer recommends change it every 2 years regardless of mileage. That made me think.

I suspect 2 years is the average time, worldwide, where the moisture content starts getting too high, which if not dealt with, will lead to compromised brake function... especially hard braking.

Humid climates may really need to change it every 1 year & dry desert maybe every 3-4?

I think I will buy a brake fluid tester just to see.

I think some people (not MF people!) would change the air in their tires if the manufacturer or some mechanic told them to do it. The old air absorbs impurities from the rubber tire & that changes the composition of the pure air that was in there to start with. Of course, this is not as much of an issue if you pay us to fill with Nitrogen. Old, dirty air increases the chances of tire failure & softens the rubber, making it easier for nails to penetrate the tire.

Evidence can be pulled from a dark place where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[grim]

I am not questioning the need for brake fluid flush in Porsches. Just the time interval in a very dry climate.

That comment wasn't directed to you. I answered you in that a dealer told me three years was fine after they checked my car. So sure, climate matters. That comment is tied to a general attitude I see in this thread, and other, of complaining about the cost of maintenance. I mentioned it here.

"I've noticed a lot of posts/threads lately where people are complaining about the cost of maintenance. ...ar more important for the wallet is that maintenance cost is never going to go away. Never. It probably will get higher as the cars age. As owners know, the Total Cost of Ownership, particularly for maintenance, is probably much higher than for one of the Japanese models. Know what you are getting yourself into. Don't be the person who wanders into a dealer for service and gets hit with what they think is a massive maintenance bill when your car is now worth $20,000 and then $10,000. ... its never going to end.
You can't say you weren't warned: Item #5

"Prepare yourself for the maintenance costs"

These costs will never end. When these cars are worth $10K, the maintenance will likely be higher. That is the price paid for ownership. Its not going to get better. This does not mean don't mitigate the costs. Sure, go to indies or DIY.

For the brake fluid, its a game of numbers. "If" the brakes fade because of water and someone dies, who is at fault? The dealer, the mechanic, or the owner who refused to pay for the service because they think it a scam? Where will the negligence lie? Its a couple of bills. So skip the steak dinner next week and take care of your car, or buy a Mazda. Sorry, thats not meant to be an attitude, but a bit of reality on the TCO. We're not talking about the $2,500 major service here. We're talking fancy dinner prices.

 

[RNA352]

Cripes people, just buy a motive, a line wrench, and a couple liters of brake fluid. Bleed your dang brakes. Or pay someone to do it. Or don’t. Don’t waste your life obsessing about it from behind a keyboard.

 

[iconoclast]

Got my brake fluid tester.
Tested my old Jag & was 1-2% moisture.
I'll probably have it flushed again later this year.
Note<3% is still OK per the experts & markings on all such tools.
Due to dry climate, I can go at least 4 years probably 5 & still be < 3% in that car.

My Macan tested <1% & I'm 2 months away from 2 years since last brake flush.

I wonder what % moisture in brake fluid that was changed 2-3 months prior, in a humid climate, like Florida?

I'm guessing it would not still be @ 0% but, IDK.

There must be a lot of cars out there that have never had brake fluid flushed & are >4% moisture & I hope they never have to panic stop behind me

 

[Yadkin]

Got my brake fluid tester.
Tested my old Jag & was 1-2% moisture.
I'll probably have it flushed again later this year.
Note<3% is still OK per the experts & markings on all such tools.
Due to dry climate, I can go at least 4 years probably 5 & still be < 3% in that car.

My Macan tested <1% & I'm 2 months away from 2 years since last brake flush.

I wonder what % moisture in brake fluid that was changed 2-3 months prior, in a humid climate, like Florida?

I'm guessing it would not still be @ 0% but, IDK.

There must be a lot of cars out there that have never had brake fluid flushed & are >4% moisture & I hope they never have to panic stop behind me

What's the percent moisture in a brand new can of brake fluid?

 

[jzwu]

Ideally it is close to 0%.

@iconoclast I think you can safely flush your brake fluid every 3-4 years, although the brake fluid tester may not be always accurate.

 

[RNA352]

What's the percent moisture in a brand new can of brake fluid?

What's the standard deviation of the measurement of percentage of h2o in brake fluid derived from a 20 dollar amazon brake fluid tester? lol

 

[Yadkin]

What's the standard deviation of the measurement of percentage of h2o in brake fluid derived from a 20 dollar amazon brake fluid tester? lol

You can buy the same one at Walmart for $12.

 

[iconoclast]

What's the percent moisture in a brand new can of brake fluid?

0%

The various testers show:
0%
<1%
<2%
<3%
>4%

They all mark the lower 3 results "OK" & mark; < 3% & >4% as BAD.

 

[iconoclast]

You can buy the same one at Walmart for $12.

No you can't.