[Shark]

No where in this discussion do I see my most important problem, which is range anxiety. There is no where near the proper refilling stations for the sewing machines.

I have other issues with the Y (see my detailed post above), but range is not one of them.

First of all, I rarely venture much more than 100 miles from home, so virtually all of my charging would be done at home. And when I do venture further, here in the Northeast the network of Tesla Superchargers is pretty robust and continually improving. No doubt there are still remote areas of the country where charging strategies remain much more challenging, and every potential owner will evaluate that for him or herself. And of course for some of us home charging is just not feasible.

One of my friends just returned from wintering in Florida with his Model Y, a very full 2 day drive. They only had to stop once a day for a 50 minute re-charge, and with a little bit of planning (which the in car software assists you with) you can combine this with meal stops and/or bathroom breaks. And they fully recharged the car at the hotel they overnighted at.

I find the Supercharger network to be impressive (although far from perfect) and while Tesla clearly continues to have build issues think Tesla deserves credit where credit is due.

 

[andy__vee]

I think you can safely rule out the older 2015 - 2106 Macans from this comparison. You can get a nicely equipped 2018 Macan GTS for $60K with CPO warranty if you look long enough. They are starting to come off lease now, so prices should start to moderate. The Porsche is a driver's vehicle. The Tesla is a commuter car. The Porsche is all about the drive. I went out this morning in my 2018 Cayman GTS to grab bagels. The bagel place is about 5 miles from my house. I drove 20 miles to get to the bagel place. The Tesla is about getting from point A to point B as economically and comfortably as possible. If you don't get what a Porsche is all about, then buy the Tesla. It will save you money and aggravation in the long run, and is a much more modern vehicle.

That's it - that's the answer. Copy/paste this one whenever the question's asked. 😂

 

[Wolverine]

I’d avoid the air suspension on any used car, particularly a German car. Inevitably they fail and can be quite expensive to repair blowing your total cost of ownership to another level. You can hedge off some of the risk with an extended warranty, but a 5 year warranty for around $5k means you’ve just added $1k/year to your carrying costs on top of maintenance. Unless you believe there is a 50% chance you’ll have warranty repairs exceeding $10k then it make no sense to get one.

Curious where you are getting your facts from.

First of all, air suspension systems don’t inevitably fail. Lots of forum members here have AS equipped cars, and the number of reported AS problems that have been minimal, even with Macans with well over 100k miles. And for the few that have had problems, turns out the parts that most commonly fail are not that expensive at all.

Also, you can get a six year extended warranty for about $5000 from one of the premier aftermarket warranty companies like Safeguard or Axiom, which works out to $833 a year. And it covers a whole white more than just AS. $833 per year for protection in years five, six, seven, eight, nine and ten on a car that has some wildly expensive parts does not seem so crazy. Of course chances are you are not going to experience more than $5000 in repairs during those six years (or the price would be higher), but the protection from a worst-case scenario seems to be worth the piece of mind to many here.

 

[Opt1k]

One of my friends just returned from wintering in Florida with his Model Y, a very full 2 day drive. They only had to stop once a day for a 50 minute re-charge, and with a little bit of planning (which the in car software assists you with) you can combine this with meal stops and/or bathroom breaks.

The idea of tech is to make life easier, not vice versa. What tesla fanbois are missing is that they are beta-testers on the way to 3 minute recharge. Also I don't understand how it can be a two day trip to florida with only one 50 minute recharge with Tesla's range being around 326 miles.

 

[Wolverine]

With all due respect, Model Y weights 5300 pounds and drives like an iron. It is possible that handling is similar cruising on a highway but you can feel every bit of that weight in tesla during spirited driving.

Actually the Model Y is a decent handling vehicle. Of course the Macan is better in this respect, but most are not going to notice the difference until they start to push the vehicles hard, which I do more than occasionally.

When the first generation GTS does not measure up (and I speak from first-hand experience as we own one) is that after driving the model Y back to back, the GTS definitely feels under powered and you notice the turbo lag issue even more.

I would still choose the Macan for many of the other reasons that have been mentioned, but as someone else said you really need to give Tesla credit where credit is due. The acceleration of the performance model is just amazing in this price range. Yes it has its own issues, but every vehicle does to some extent.

 

[Opt1k]

Actually the Model Y is a decent handling vehicle. Of course the Macan is better in this respect, but most are not going to notice the difference until they start to push the vehicles hard, which I do more than occasionally.

When the first generation GTS does not measure up (and I speak from first-hand experience as we own one) is that after driving the model Y back to back, the GTS definitely feels under powered and you notice the turbo lag issue even more.

I would still choose the Macan for many of the other reasons that have been mentioned, but as someone else said you really need to give Tesla credit where credit is due. The acceleration of the performance model is just amazing in this price range. Yes it has its own issues, but every vehicle does to some extent.

I don't understand what kind of acceleration in this price range are you talking about? Corvette C8 costs $60k and goes to 60 in 2.9. Tesla Model Y Performance costs $60k and goes to 60 in 3.5.

I totally agree that Macan would be a much better vehicle with V8, but personally I did not go back to Tesla dealership after seeing both Macan/Panamera/Cayenne and a Tesla. If you think that buying a car with an interior or toyota corolla for a price of macan, which also adds hassle to your life is fine - kudos to you, we need people who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the greater future.

 

[Shark]

I don't understand how it can be a two day trip to florida with only one 50 minute recharge with Tesla's range being around 326 miles.

One lunchtime charge each day plus a full charge at their hotel overnight.

 

[wspollack]

...
Also I don't understand how it can be a two day trip to florida with only one 50 minute recharge with Tesla's range being around 326 miles.

@Shark included these tidbits in that post: "... once a day ..." and "... they fully recharged the car at the hotel they overnighted at." So, if I understand that post correctly, that's two stints per day, with some percent of charge between those stints each day, and probably a full-charger in between those two days (for a total of four legs).

 

[jzwu]

Some ppl have to be the first to eat the crab. I kinda respect those early adopters. Without them lots of new tech won’t eventually succeed and flourish.

But personally I am more of the cautious type. I would, however, jump in if seeing the light clearly. In fact, I have been considering the Model Y for a while as it’s perfect for CA weather and day trips in the SF Bay Area. Its quality issues got me concerned.

 

[Chris in Philly]

I don't understand what kind of acceleration in this price range are you talking about? Corvette C8 costs $60k and goes to 60 in 2.9. Tesla Model Y Performance costs $60k and goes to 60 in 3.5.

Anyone know how the 0 to 60 time of the new Corvette is relevant to the discussion?

 

[DanNYC]

Anyone know how the 0 to 60 time of the new Corvette is relevant to the discussion?

About as relevant as the 0 to 60 time of the Suzuki Hayabusa at a quarter of the price...

 

[wspollack]

Well, I vote for the Porsche. I owned a Model Y Performance very briefly and had a pretty bad experience. Tesla's post-sale customer service is horrific. While I was attracted to the tech of the Tesla and the instant acceleration, sliding all over the seat in turns wasn't great and the sound and handling of the Porsche is a much more enjoyable ride.

The story of how my Tesla broke hard within the first hour of ownership and how I returned it is posted here: Towed back to Tesla after driving only 32 miles...

It took Tesla 4 months to fix the car and put it back on the market.

I used to be a Tesla fan until I bought one.

Bob: I read all three pages of your Tesla-forum post. Wow!

I admire your perseverance, and your unwillingness to be BSed, your fortitude in returning the car. And being lied to (problem with the GPS?!) is just plain unacceptable, by anyone, about anything. I told my kids, in their formative years, that they could talk to me about anything, anything is potentially forgivable, but lying simply prevents any starting point for communication.

More directly on topic: adjusting mirrors via a screen -- and what else do you have to do on that? -- seems like a technological step backward to me. I'll take dedicated switches, any time.

 

[muncie]

I’m wondering where he found a 60k c8

 

[jzwu]

Base C8 starts at $60k so technically you can order one at that price without any options. But I read the online forum that the C8 has quite a few quality issues, with some serious. if you want to get one it‘s better to wait for a year or two.

 

[Hi-Toro]

If you want to be driven buy the Tesla.
If you want to drive buy the Macan.

 

[Opt1k]

One lunchtime charge each day plus a full charge at their hotel overnight.

So this means not only they had to route their journey based on the superchargers, but also had to select a hotel which has one.

 

[Opt1k]

Anyone know how the 0 to 60 time of the new Corvette is relevant to the discussion?

Who knows? It was mentioned above that tesla has impressive performance for the money. Obviously not as impressive as C8 corvette. Don't get me wrong, I am a believer that electric vehicles are our future but when I see a $70k econobox and a $70k Macan GTS I don't have to think twice.

 

[windblow]

Who knows? It was mentioned above that tesla has impressive performance for the money. Obviously not as impressive as C8 corvette. Don't get me wrong, I am a believer that electric vehicles are our future but when I see a $70k econobox and a $70k Macan GTS I don't have to think twice.

Where can you get a GTS for $70k? I suppose you mean a used one.

 

[DanNYC]

So this means not only they had to route their journey based on the superchargers, but also had to select a hotel which has one.

Please stop posting misinformation.

The main route between the Northeast and Florida is I-95, and there is plenty of Tesla supercharger availability along the entire route to make the trip in a Model Y easily feasible.

And it’s not true if you want to charge a Model Y overnight at a hotel you would need to select a hotel with a supercharger. Not exactly difficult these days to find hotels along major interstates that offer EV charging.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

I have no skin in this game as I don’t own a Tesla nor do I plan on buying one anytime in the near future.

But in fairness to Tesla I would point out that the study you were quoting involves model year 2017 vehicles, well before the model Y was introduced.

if you actually dig into the JD Power data you will see that the issues model Y owners are reporting are substantially related to body and interior fit and finish. One of JD Power‘s executives even took the time to make the point Tesla power trains are actually very reliable. Body panels that don’t fit well are not going to leave you stranded somewhere.

Not trying to make excuses for Tesla. They’ve had more than enough time to resolve their build quality issues. They should just hire some laid off Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler engineers who can teach them how to assemble a car. They certainly have the money to be able to do that now they are no longer operating on a shoestring.

Four of my friends including two neighbors now own Model Y’s. All four of them have had to bring her car back to the dealer to resolve build quality issues. but in each case the dealer did resolve the issues and all four of them are enthusiastic owners.

Interesting that you did not show owner satisfaction data, where Tesla scores quite highly.

I also have no skin in the game.
I did not show owner satisfaction because that is totally subjective, QC is not.
You are certainly right though in that owner satisfaction is incredibly high - especially given the number of QC complaints. I guess the buzz of the great tech, early adoption, power, environmental, etc outweigh the QC issues for many people.
I am certainly in that category. But range is a huge issue for me and no current EV works for me as yet. This is especially true in a country with a ludite government and no real EV infrastructure. I believe we are the only country in the world that is taxing EV's rather than encouraging their uptake.
The issue for Tesla with QC is that it is basically a tech company trying to make cars and not the other way around, as you have essentially noted.
After some 30 years in the auto industry I know only too well the complexities in manufacturing cars - Elon severely underestimated this aspect. He has been quoted numerous times more recently acknowledging that as his major failing in bringing Tesla to market.
Regardless, I am very glad that Tesla is out there and shaking up the industry - definitely needed it and to all our benefit.