[MotorCityMacan]

I thought I remember reading on this forum that there was some SA conspiracy to get buyers to NOT order AS. Maybe the Porsche driving instructors and other factory employees are part of this conspiracy?

 

[wndcttr]

Sorry, went back and looked at my post, and realized it sounded kinda harsh.

Of course a Macan could be taken to the track, and fine (heck even recommneded) for anyone to do that. It would be probably a less than 1-2% of the time thing though. So, the other 98-99% of the time is what you should really care about.

Yeah, my track and off-road milage probably make up less than 0.5% of my annual driving. But I still got PASM/AS/PTV. Mainly to be able to raise the car off-road and lower it while on track and good roads.

 

[thkemp]

I just returned from Leipzig and I have to say that my instructor gave me a much different impression than your experience. He was an excellent driver, was the European Carting Champion at 17, and was #3 in Formula Fords. While we were on the track I asked him if the Macan we were driving has AS, he said he wasn't sure (although he could have just looked down, we were going about a 100 mph and the conversation quickly moved on to what was going on with the car on the track). He said PASM was easily to identify. After a lap or 2 he said he didn't think that it was equipped with AS. It was his opinion that AS came into play more in day-to-day driving and was not a significant factor on the track. He also said that if he were buying the car with his own money, he would specify AS. It is one of the features that allows the Macan at one moment drive like a luxury car, and the next moment drive like a sports car. I have it and I am glad I do.

 

[MotorCityMacan]

How could he not know if the macan had AS? Even an amateur like myself can just look at the buttons on the center console and figure it out.

I just returned from Leipzig and I have to say that my instructor gave me a much different impression than your experience. He was an excellent driver, was the European Carting Champion at 17, and was #3 in Formula Fords. While we were on the track I asked him if the Macan we were driving has AS, he said he wasn't sure. He said PASM was easily to identify. After a lap or 2 he said he didn't think that it was equipped with AS. It was his opinion that AS came into play more in day-to-day driving and was not a significant factor on the track. He also said that if he were buying the car with his own money, he would specify AS. It is one of the features that allows the Macan at one moment drive like a luxury car, and the next moment drive like a sports car. I have it and I am glad I do.

 

[jzwu]

Is that the car with a down arrow?

 

[jrjunior31]

I thought I remember reading on this forum that there was some SA conspiracy to get buyers to NOT order AS. Maybe the Porsche driving instructors and other factory employees are part of this conspiracy?

It's not a conspiracy it's logical for the dealers to sway people from the performance options and instead make sure they option infotainment and Bose so the car appeals to the mass market if you walk away from your order. A Macan with Info/Bose and base suspension will likely move faster off the lot than a Macan with PASM/AS and no navigation. Multiple SAs at different dealers told me I didn't need PASM/AS but kept questioning my lack of navigation.

 

[Nylon]

I just returned from Leipzig and I have to say that my instructor gave me a much different impression than your experience. He was an excellent driver, was the European Carting Champion at 17, and was #3 in Formula Fords. While we were on the track I asked him if the Macan we were driving has AS, he said he wasn't sure. He said PASM was easily to identify. After a lap or 2 he said he didn't think that it was equipped with AS. It was his opinion that AS came into play more in day-to-day driving and was not a significant factor on the track. He also said that if he were buying the car with his own money, he would specify AS. It is one of the features that allows the Macan at one moment drive like a luxury car, and the next moment drive like a sports car. I have it and I am glad I do.

I find this hard to believe. Are you saying the Porsche driving instructor at Leipzig was unable to tell you weather the car had AS or not. That is extremely suspect! Not only does an AS car drive very differently to a steel car but all he had to do was look down on the console to see if the AS button was there. It would be a cold day in **** the day that Porsche let anyone working in that position not know the suspension setup of the vehicle.

 

[MotorCityMacan]

Any Macan - however optioned - will sell within days (or a few weeks at worst) if someone walked away from an order. While it makes sense for them to upsell you options like nav. It makes no sense to downsell options. Especially given that Macans are selling for MSRP.

It's not a conspiracy it's logical for the dealers to sway people from the performance options and instead make sure they option infotainment and Bose so the car appeals to the mass market if you walk away from your order. A Macan with Info/Bose and base suspension will likely move faster off the lot than a Macan with PASM/AS and no navigation. Multiple SAs at different dealers told me I didn't need PASM/AS but kept questioning my lack of navigation.

 

[jrjunior31]

Any Macan - however optioned - will sell within days (or a few weeks at worst) if someone walked away from an order. While it makes sense for them to upsell you options like nav. It makes no sense to downsell options. Especially given that Macans are selling for MSRP.

Yes demand is still very high, it's not a question of a Macan not selling. But the dealers want the car to move instantly with the path of least resistance. That means Info/Bose no PASM/AS. Mass market I'm sure prefers to spend 3K on Navy as opposed to Air suspension with adjustable dampers. So they push you toward the ideal spec for the majority of consumers. I'm not the only one who experienced this. Perhaps it differs by location but this was what I found in LA. The dealer I bought the car from told me the day I was negotiating that he was concerned about the time involved in moving the car with out navy if I walked.

 

[K-A]

PASM vs AS

SA's don't want AS spec'd so it's easier to sell to soccer moms. They don't ironically care about performance options, would rather have nav, etc. It's just the way it is.

Problem with treating what one instructor says as enough to "haha I told you so", is that it's purely hearsay. I heard opposite from actual professional Porsche race car drivers, "so there", lol.

Fundamentally, AS improves performance. It's not magic, it's simple suspension geometry.

What that instructor basically says is that you can feel the limits easier with PASM steel. That is NOT a compliment unless you're trying to get to the cars limits on a track.

In the real world, this means that AS doesn't let you envision the cars limits so easily. I.e it raises your level of experience by "shrinking" and lightening this heavy and somewhat high car. That's what matters most to me, and is a BIG compliment as to why it feels so absolutely sensational in all metrics at the same time.

And since AS is optioned in 99.99% of Porsche equipped track tested models, I've yet to hear one reviewer say that AS disguised limits so well that they came out of nowhere as a surprise.

Again. We're all talking about our own hearsay. Porsche themselves officially state the Macan with AS as the peak performer in the handling range, and they use it for all of their TRACK tests. That's hard info, everything else is subjective or "he said, she said".

Just go with what you feel. It's what counts!

Yes demand is still very high, it's not a question of a Macan not selling. But the dealers want the car to move instantly with the path of least resistance. That means Info/Bose no PASM/AS. Mass market I'm sure prefers to spend 3K on Navy as opposed to Air suspension with adjustable dampers. So they push you toward the ideal spec for the majority of consumers. I'm not the only one who experienced this. Perhaps it differs by location but this was what I found in LA. The dealer I bought the car from told me the day I was negotiating that he was concerned about the time involved in moving the car with out navy if I walked.

Exactly. This is a simple fact, dealers even admitted this to me, and tons of people the same.

Dealers are NOT Porsche. They have their own interests. Fluff options are it, not so much the enthusiast stuff, that's why it's so often a fight. And lol, no, they're not "looking out for us". That's purely naive to think so.

 

[Nylon]

I like fuzzy logic too!

 

[K-A]

PASM vs AS

Uh oh, I sense anti-AS club coming in with personal attacks and inflammatory comments again?

Maybe we can not get into a pissing match this time. Let's just debate the SUSPENSIONS, please.

Anyway, to me, "fuzzy logic" could be thinking that a looser and higher spring rate, higher center of gravity, and sans an ability to control spring distribution from this heavy machine is somehow better for the track, (not to mention increased negative camber from AS which is very beneficial on a track) because the limits feel more natural, because one guy says it. Then another says the opposite, etc. it's all subjective.

Logic is Porsche, the most respected sports car company, using AS exclusively on their track driven Macan's (to raving reviews) or the *fundamental geometrical enhancements* it brings. Or how ONLY an AS model has achieved a .92 lateral g, etc.

Steel showcasing limits easier is exactly why I prefer AS and part of why you pay for it.

I also prefer PDCC on a 911. It's amazing on a track.

 

[MotorCityMacan]

The delusion is especially strong today.

Why not sell nav AND AS to a rich soccer mom? The fact is people who can afford to buy a Macan off the lot are not going to be discouraged by one additional option that they didn't intend on buying initially. This completely ignores the fact that you can "sell" the air suspension ride to your fictitious soccer mom.

So we should believe your hearsay versus a fellow forum member who travelled to Leipzig?

A fellow forum member posted their personal experience. It takes quite a delusional person to twist the post into something that supports their own agenda. Not to mention making up BS like "99.9%" of track cars are spec'd with AS.

SA's don't want AS spec'd so it's easier to sell to soccer moms. They don't ironically care about performance options, would rather have nav, etc. It's just the way it is.

Problem with treating what one instructor says as enough to "haha I told you so", is that it's purely hearsay. I heard opposite from actual professional Porsche race car drivers, "so there", lol.

Fundamentally, AS improves performance. It's not magic, it's simple suspension geometry.

What that instructor basically says is that you can feel the limits easier with PASM steel. That is NOT a compliment unless you're trying to get to the cars limits on a track.

In the real world, this means that AS doesn't let you envision the cars limits so easily. I.e it raises your level of experience by "shrinking" and lightening this heavy and somewhat high car. That's what matters most to me, and is a BIG compliment as to why it feels so absolutely sensational in all metrics at the same time.

And since AS is optioned in 99.99% of Porsche equipped track tested models, I've yet to hear one reviewer say that AS disguised limits so well that they came out of nowhere as a surprise.

Again. We're all talking about our own hearsay. Porsche themselves officially state the Macan with AS as the peak performer in the handling range, and they use it for all of their TRACK tests. That's hard info, everything else is subjective or "he said, she said".

Just go with what you feel. It's what counts!



Exactly. This is a simple fact, dealers even admitted this to me, and tons of people the same.

Dealers are NOT Porsche. They have their own interests. Fluff options are it, not so much the enthusiast stuff, that's why it's so often a fight. And lol, no, they're not "looking out for us". That's purely naive to think so.

 

[K-A]

PASM vs AS

No delusion.

"My hearsay is better than your hearsay".

Fundamentally and *geometrically*, AS is better. This "because limits are more transparent with steel" is a knock to it, imo. There is nothing superior about higher and fixed, semi soft springs on a fundamental level, EXCEPT for in natural feel, which is subjective. And yes, that's my subjective opinion on the virtues of objective enhancements. AS makes the car feel more "limitless" because it's that good, imo.

I'll take what Porsche race drivers told me, "so there" lol.

Dealers by and large don't want performance options, period. They want an SUV demographic to consider this car, they need accessible options and a general price range, in case you walk. What an SA says about AS means little to nothing and is always in the dealers best interest. Thinking otherwise is generally giving into classic dealer tactics.

AS is on literally all of their company equipped track cars. For a reason. They also state it as being the best handling suspension on a Macan, and they back up the words with how they send the cars to track tests. Porsche knows best, I think.

 

[jzwu]

Did I say Peace? (even though I am not a mod)

 

[K-A]

PASM vs AS

Did I say Peace? (even though I am not a mod)

Unfortunately it's hard to debate the same group of guys who hurl insults to counter my reasonings for AS. "delusional", "fuzzy logic" etc. I haven't resorted to that once. Because AS is easy to objectively back up.

Edit. From here on I'll just debate the core suspensions and flag inflammatory posts by Motor and Nylon. Not gonna get tit for tat. But I'll debate the topic, just not the personality inflammatory aspects.

 

[Nylon]

The op's statement was:

"The consensus seemed to be for just PASM and not AS. According to the instructors, the AS Macans are too snappy. The PASM car telegraphs the limit to the driver and let's you know when you are approaching it whereas the AS cars just tend to let go."

K-A's reply to this statement was:

'What that instructor basically says is that you can feel the limits easier with PASM steel. That is NOT a compliment unless you're trying to get to the cars limits on a track. "

1. This is obviously a straw-man response.
2. The fuzzy logic comment applies to the statement because since when do you go to a track with specific objective not to test the limits of your vehicle. i.e. obtain the fastest time around the course.
3. When was it a good thing for one not be able to feel the limits of the vehicle. i.e. to be deceived into losing control because you could not sense if the vehicle was about to break loose or not.

I think the AS system is great for comfort and off road applications. But if one does intend to track their Macan (most won't), AS is an option that should be left off despite what the marketing might have you believe. It's better to go with a steel setup and PTV.

Hearsay be damned! And no one is throwing any insults here. "Fuzzy logic" is not an insult.

 

[K-A]

PASM vs AS

The op's statement was:



"The consensus seemed to be for just PASM and not AS. According to the instructors, the AS Macans are too snappy. The PASM car telegraphs the limit to the driver and let's you know when you are approaching it whereas the AS cars just tend to let go."



K-A's reply to this statement was:



'What that instructor basically says is that you can feel the limits easier with PASM steel. That is NOT a compliment unless you're trying to get to the cars limits on a track. "



1. This is obviously a straw-man response.

2. The fuzzy logic comment applies to the statement because since when do you go to a track with specific objective not to test the limits of your vehicle. i.e. obtain the fastest time around the course.

3. When was it a good thing for one not be able to feel the limits of the vehicle. i.e. to be deceived into losing control because you could not sense if the vehicle was about to break loose or not.



I think the AS system is great for comfort and off road applications. But if one does intend to track their Macan (most won't), AS is an option that should be left off despite what the marketing might have you believe. It's better to go with a steel setup and PTV.



Hearsay be damned!

Well it's still rooted in ad hominem, but that's better.

Fair enough. But to me, a car like this is better when its limits are felt much raised. And nobody had seemed to "lose it" with a Macan yet, AS or otherwise.

In a 911, it's different. But with a bigger, tall and heavy car, active enhancements are pivotal to lake the car feel smaller and like a "sports car". Which is why all high range luxury/performance 4 doors use AS or some form of active springs.

The Macan bringing AS is imo a testament and essential as to how serious it is to play in the "mass defying" 4 door crowd. I think it gets so many polarizing comments here because the Macan plays in a lower price range.

Again, my issue with PASM steel was that I could feel too much more pitch and roll. And it felt noticeably higher. So in those respects, yes, the limits feel much more tangible, but in the real world, that's the last thing I want, personally. AS makes the limits feel unattainable which I prefer.

With your history to me, "fuzzy logic" is undermining and an insult. And you know it's intended to start a flame war because I'd have to defend it. Why don't we not make disguised "jokes" about members and keep
expressing why we prefer the different suspensions.

 

[Spielzeug]

<yawn>:|

 

[Nylon]

So I can't discuss the merits of the argument or call out the logic on a topic because of 'history' and for fear of someone being offended. Give me a break!