Soooo Grim? So are you saying I should get
AS or not get AS ?


Haaaa ! Sorry , I couldn't help myself.

I'm off to read the next thread and peacefully leaving this one .

 

Darn, I have got the H&R lowering springs but couldn't find a good shop to install them. Called a few local dealers, most won't do aftermarket stuff but one would do it for a freak'n $2400!

It has crossed my mind more and more now I should've just ordered the AS and be done with the 1" drop.

 

It is very surprising that you can't find a reputable shop in the Bay area to do this at a reasonable cost. Maybe find an LA shop and make a weekend out of it.

 

That's a good idea indeed. I suspect LA has more competent shops to do mod work than the bay area.

 

Yeah, I think LA has loads of shops that would do this. It's surprising how many skilled shops are down there. I guess it's because of the multitude of specialists required for stunt work and other Movie/TV stuff.

 

Just got the formal response from Sharkwerks in Fremont.


Sorry Yuan,
No we don't and haven't tried yet - I would try The Rennshop.

Shark Werks: www.sharkwerks.com 4526 Enterprise Street Fremont, CA 94538 Tel: 510-651-0300 View our new Project Gallery: SharkWerks Porsche Project Gallery - Modified 996, 997, Turbo, GT2, GT3, Cayman, and Cayenne Porsches

On 4/14/2015 2:38 PM, Yuan wrote:

Hello,

I wonder if you install lowering springs for the 2015 Macan S.

The lowering springs are from H&R and my Macan S has the steel suspension with PASM.

Thanks!

Yuan

 

IMO, from day-to-day usage, AS is the way to go. I have other reasons to not order AS on my vehicle (maintenance aside) but I won't open that can of worms.

 

Ditto...these threads are super fun to read while I wait for my Macan....but only reason I got AS was for the lower stance....that's all...anything else is just gravy.

 

I am in the same "boat". (or perhaps "car" is the appropriate word to use in this Forum). I also like the lower stance.

 

Those threads about AS are getting tiresome.

I agree with K-A that AS is an improvement over PASM and steel may it be for daily driving, off road and even on track.

But who really cares about track use of AS when the vast majority of Macan buyers will never track their Macans.

The people who argue against AS probably:
- are pissed because they did not order it
- did not order it because it was to expensive
- are living in the past
- should stay away from a Macan and buy another Porsche

 

I didn't order AS but I am pissed that I cannot get the lowering springs installed.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but if on the off chance you are one of the Macan owners like myself who might track the vehicle, the MUST HAVE option is PTV, I don't think I can stress that enough.

 

PASM vs AS

Same here. The lowering alone is worth the cost to me. Everything else is a very welcomed bonus. And it's true that AS or active spring rates are the future for especially big 4 doors to defy their mass while providing ultimate comfort. Right now, it's mostly high range performance/sports sedans and SUV's. Nearly all the top and most expensive models in those segments have AS. Macan introduces it to a lower price point, hence the dichotomy from some. And it'll continue getting more and more accessible as time goes on. It's one of the very exclusive ways to lower, adjust, and stiffen a car WHILE improving comfort and versatility, from my findings.

Tesla offers it on their highest range options, even the C Class just introduced an AS option for the first time, etc. etc. In some years, steel spring cars won't be as common for this reason, imo.

 

@Enilder Tried both at the same time. I am one of those impatient folks.

 

This seems a polarizing topic, as usual this might be from a must have to a nice to have option, for me, which I have a trailer to tow, the AS is a must have, the car remain flat and not squatted like with the steel springs which affects the handling and traction of the vehicle.

Rather than opinions there are some facts which back-up the AS for comfort and steel springs suspension for better feedback.
All the luxury cars focused on comfort ride on Air, Hydraulic or Hydro-pneumatic suspensions, i.e. Rolls-Royce, Maybach, etc...

Except some oddballs, the vast majority of the race or uncompromising sport cars for the road, use steel springs.

Given the budget and sheer number of engineers and tests made I would say the conclusion had been made in which type of suspensions is better for what.

 

PASM vs AS

This seems a polarizing topic, as usual this might be from a must have to a nice to have option, for me, which I have a trailer to tow, the AS is a must have, the car remain flat and not squatted like with the steel springs which affects the handling and traction of the vehicle.



Rather than opinions there are some facts which back-up the AS for comfort and steel springs suspension for better feedback.

All the luxury cars focused on comfort ride on Air, Hydraulic or Hydro-pneumatic suspensions, i.e. Rolls-Royce, Maybach, etc...



Except some oddballs, the vast majority of the race or uncompromising sport cars for the road, use steel springs.



Given the budget and sheer number of engineers and tests made I would say the conclusion had been made in which type of suspensions is better for what.

Also about all expensive high performance/luxury sedans and SUV's use predominantly AS. To retain optimal comfort whilst achieving rails capable handling from a heavy car, active springs become pretty essential. The Macan introduces this to a new segment so there will be some natural confusion. But in 20 years or so, I think most manufacturers will lighten up on passive/fixed spring rates. Active is growing and ultimately the future.

Your point about how AS keeps a car perfectly level whilst towing (and with people in the car, etc.) is also good. That capability of the suspension to be able to keep the cars load balance neutral speaks volumes as to how it improves handling, to me. It's a treat for a car like this to be able to corner so flatly, thanks to said air spring capability. That's just not as achievable from passive springs as they have to be soft enough to also provide a car like this an expectedly comfortable and compliant ride. It's more to my taste and gets me closer to a "best of both worlds", but as has been said, the feel aspect is very personal.

 

The Citroën DS from 1955 was the first production car to have a hydro-pneumatic suspension, even today they have a modern version in production on their C5.
Although from a different era it provided super comfortable ride, and even if one had a puncture it would simply pull that wheel up and keep riding
Here is a link of a commercial video of the GS model which appeared later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfbIdAT34fc

One disadvantage of this system was the maintenance cost, when it went wrong (which it did) boy it was expensive to repair.

 

I just hope the GTS comes in steel suspension and an inch lower so that there can be 500 pages of vigorous purely anecdotal forum fodder. Surely heads will explode.>

 

I just hope the GTS comes in steel suspension and an inch lower so that there can be 500 pages of vigorous purely anecdotal forum fodder. Surely heads will explode.

Can't wait to see that!!! Dare I start another hot topic ..... To pano or not to pano??

 

I guarantee this will be the last thread on this topic. Others will be merged or deleted.

So let it all out.

 

This topic always seems to end this way. Maybe just this one time let's try not to have the thread closed because we can't police ourselves.

Wow, another day, and another 60 posts on a subject where there are no winners or losers

Listen carefully to @Raneleigh. Self police yourselves and discuss things based upon technical information. And put each other on ignore if you need to.

@Wintermute has made it clear, there will be no more threads on this subject. They will be deleted or merged into here. Think about that for the sake of future members wishing information and how they will review this banter.

thank you

 

This sums it up perfectly!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRZkPSdrH4

 

Well, the tongue weight on the hitch will be added to the weight on the rear axle, but that's about it. That's a static load and so I can certainly see how the Macan self levels that.

What I don't understand is what @K-A goes on about in terms of levelling for cornering. Does the AS system actually work to level the vehicle in corners ? I don't believe it can. The pressurization system and compressor are too slow.

I had an Audi RS4, and it had the front dampers connected to the diagonal opposite dampers with a hydraulic system. This system was able to react quickly and keep the car more level, but it was entirely passive. Fiendishly clever, but also prone to leakage. I had two DRC recalls done on my RS4 dampers.

 

Well, the tongue weight on the hitch will be added to the weight on the rear axle, but that's about it. That's a static load and so I can certainly see how the Macan self levels that.

What I don't understand is what @K-A goes on about in terms of levelling for cornering. Does the AS system actually work to level the vehicle in corners ? I don't believe it can. The pressurization system and compressor are too slow.

I had an Audi RS4, and it had the front dampers connected to the diagonal opposite dampers with a hydraulic system. This system was able to react quickly and keep the car more level, but it was entirely passive. Fiendishly clever, but also prone to leakage. I had two DRC recalls done on my RS4 dampers.

@Macanuck , for the trailer situation my understanding is that with a basic attachment between the trailer and the Macan's tow ball you have a simple pivot connection at that point. It can transmit forces on all three axes but it can't be used as a rigid lever. As you said, the tongue weight will push down on the tow ball, increasing the weight on the Macan's rear axle (and decreasing the weight on the front axle). With steel springs the Macan's body will pivot around the rear axle so the rear end sits lower and the front end sits higher. With AS the system will pump up the rear suspension to keep the Macan level, which of course will elevate the tow ball connection as well.

However, apart from a small change due to the slightly different geometry the weight on the Macan's axles and the trailer's axle(s) will remain essentially the same regardless of whether we're using steel springs or AS. The centers of mass for the trailer and the Macan haven't changed and we can't transmit any leverage across the tow ball connection, so the weight distribution between the three axles won't change. Lighter steering will remain as lighter steering, etc.

Now, there are towing weight distribution systems available, and if my understanding of their function is correct (I've never used one) they basically "stiffen up" the connection across the tow ball, making it possible to redistribute some of the loads between the axles by in essence using the tow ball connection as a lever.

I share your perception of the AS's abilities as far as staying level during cornering is concerned. I don't think it could react anywhere near quickly enough to do that with any consistency if it was entirely dependent on the compressor pumping air. PASM might be more relevant in that regard. However, now that I think about it I seem to recall that the Macan's AS system is crosslinked so that air from one side is transferred to the other side (maybe front to back as well) to help keep things level. Of course, I might be mixing it up with a different system like the one on your RS4 or my old Austin Mini.

 

Opinion and facts

Opinions are a dime a dozen, often presented as facts.
We see it all around us. There used to be an editorial section just for opinions but now it's mixed in with the facts in the news section.

Also, do you notice that news readers nowadays are more like entertainers? Not only are they louder but they don't seem like they need to take a breath. I miss the Walter Cronkite days!

 

PASM vs AS

AS absolutely does use the same benefit of keeping a car level during towing, to keep it flat during cornering. It's just the nature of the system.

It's simply the capabilities of controlling lean, if it wants to. And why an AS PASM car can corner with less body roll than a PASM steel car. In "Low", I get a considerably tighter and more road feel ride than Normal. As Porsche states, "it stiffens up the spring rate as you go Low, as less air is held in the "springs".

If you're in Sport + and start driving aggressively, AS will adapt on top of PASM. I notice a big difference between Sport+ during lazy and during aggressive driving. AS doesn't adapt immediately, but it can do things a steel spring can't such as hold as tight as it wants, without breaking comfort as much.

 

PASM vs AS

Yes, that's a great description. So AS benefits have a lot to do with the geometry of the system itself.

Here's what Porsche states about an AS spring rate:

"At the same time, a harder spring rate is achieved through a reduction in the amount of air stored in the air suspension"

And Air Suspensions have a better ability to equalize load to each corner, as has been stated.

 

PASM vs AS

There aren't any excuses for personal attacks during a spirited discussion about cars that isn't otherwise breaking TOU. Period. Ignore, please.

For those who don't know basics of an AS system. This video might be of some purpose. It's of a Towncar so the performance virtues aren't quite explained, but you can imagine what the nature of said system can otherwise amount to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbqpZa-UPM&autoplay=1

Edit: Another note is that the AS in the Macan, aside from being a much more modern and developed than the old one in the vid, is that it's a closed circuit system. I.e, unlike the style in the video, it doesn't release any air out of the system itself.

 

And another little basic write up that explains some generic Air Suspension properties, from "How Stuff Works":

"Introduction to How Air Suspension Systems Work

The country's cargo shipments ride on air, and now your car can, too. Air suspension systems have long been used in the trucking world, but in the last decade or so, they've moved into the commercial world. Motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles, custom cars, performance cars -- even everyday commuter cars -- are using the suspension systems.

Changes in technology mean that systems are no longer clunky, slow and imprecise. Instead, they use fast, precision-based technology with advanced electronics that control everything from ride height to bag pressure, offering a smooth, controlled drive.

And it's about time, as the car's suspension system is an often-overlooked area. From a comfort and safety standpoint, your car's suspension is integral to how your car drives. Shock absorbers and coil springs help absorb and direct road force, maintaining wheel oscillation, jounce and rebound.

However, every time you add or take away weight to a vehicle, speed up or slow down, or turn left or right, this challenges what the shock absorbers and springs are capable of. Traditional stock shocks and springs are designed and installed with only a fixed set of situations in mind.

Air suspension systems essentially replace a vehicle's coil springs with air springs. The air springs are simply tough rubber and plastic bags inflated to a certain pressure and height to mimic the coil springs. But the similarities end there. By adding in an on-board air compressor, sensors and electronic controls, today's air suspension systems provide several advantages over all-metal, conventional springs, including near-instant tuning, and the ability to adapt handling to different situations and vary load capability.

Whether the system is manual or electronic, or installed by a weekend mechanic or a seasoned tech, air suspension can lower a car to improve its street cred, even out a heavy payload, or simply improve the ride of a vintage Detroit metal street monster."

 

This topic always seems to end this way. Maybe just this one time let's try not to have the thread closed because we can't police ourselves. Bottom line, we all have valid points. And besides, it doesn't really matter what we think, what matters is what British Airways thinks.

 

 

LOL

 

AS is not cross linked. Guaranteed. When you raise or lower the car, the front goes up or down a bit, then the back, then the front again. Try it and see.

For that to work, the car cannot be cross linked, nor can the front be connected to the back. The car has independent control of the front and rear, which my Cargraphic lowering module preserves. So left and right at the front may be connected and left and right at the back may be connected, but there is no diagonal cross link.

PASM can also achieve no lean. Just close the valve and the damper can't compress. Voila, no lean, but a hard ride. Let some air volume out of the air spring and it too gets firmer, thus reducing lean, but also getting harsher. So its not clear to me which method Porsche uses, or if they adjust both.

The new Lambo uses the AC Delco magnetorheological shocks, which in the newest iteration are so fast they can firm up during DSG shifts to prevent pitch movements during hard acceleration shifts and hard breaking. You'll notice a Macan has a fair amount of brake dive. That would not happen with these shocks or in fact if the front air springs were connected to the back ones. These shocks are also why Lambo themselves state as the reason the car can corner flat. They use conventional springs by the way.

 

That was a bad choice of words by me. When I said "crosslinked" I should have said something like "interlinked" or even just "linked" instead. I wasn't excluding the possibility of any linking option, but I didn't mean to explicitly suggest diagonal linking either.