A couple of things you guys are discussing.

First, the Macan Turbo PP "technically" is not a trim level. Rather the PP was an "option". Why? I got no idea. I think most people thought the S would come out but instead they went to the short lived .2 version of the car. My suspicious is they expect the second generation car, the EV, to come out in MY20, but the pandemic happened. They have known for a very long time that the emissions fines would destroy the company. But I think a lot of that got pushed back because of the pandemic. Since the Macan EV is the second generation vehicle, I fully expect a Turbo S model and apparently the #2 guy at PAG confirmed it.

Second, AFAIK, the Cayenne GT is NOT a Motorsports car, so don't even talk about it in the same breath as a GT2, GT3, or GT4. You see those numerics after GT? Those are the racing classes. GT2 no longer races but the 3 and 4 DO race.

Andreas Preuninger (AP) runs the GT racing division, ie, motorsports. Those cars are meant to be homologation cars for the Race cars. You can look them up what each one does but generally speaking, the GT3 allows Porsche to run in the WEC GT3 class. Here is an example

Debut for the newest generation of the Porsche 911 GT3 R

The new Porsche 911 GT3 R will be unveiled to the public at this year’s 24 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps. Compared to its predecessor, the new 911 GT3 R features a larger engine producing up to 565 HP, a more constant aerodynamic performance and an optimized vehicle balance.

newsroom.porsche.com

This is the latest 911 GT3 R (R as in Racing). Its homogolation car is the 992 GT3.

"homologated for the FIA GTE category; homologation basis: Porsche 911 GT3 (992 series)."

AP has EXPLICITLY stated there will NOT be a GT Macan or Cayenne. Quote:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15341408/porsche-we-wont-do-any-gt-suvs-ever/

“The credibility of the GT car is based on direct bloodline to the race cars,” he told C/D. “A customer buying a GT3 knows there’s a derivative that’s on track every other weekend in a different race series. ... “If we were to enter the Dakar rally with a Macan or Cayenne—something we have no plans to do—then maybe the Motorsport department would develop that car and bring it to the race. Then I would see a good excuse to make something for the street that is very close,” Preuninger said. “But to just use a badge on a Panamera or Cayenne to make it more attractive, for me, would not be credible. It would only be marketing, I don’t think that’s the right thing to do."

But wait, there is Cayenne Turbo GT, right? But its NOT a motorsports division car that I can tell. It's just another trim level.

Porsche Cayenne Turbo GT Coupe review: a 631bhp super-SUV with carbon aero Reviews 2023 | Top Gear

A two-tonne 4x4 that needs actual downforce? Purr-lease. Apparently, those funny carbon Shrek ears either side of the roof spoiler – and the 25mm-longer ducktail on the pop-up rear wing – aren’t just visual shorthand for ‘I’ve bought the most expensive non-hybrid Porsche Cayenne’. Apparently...

www.topgear.com

This Cayenne isn’t a pedigree product of the same Weissach skunkworks that brings you the 911 GT2 and GT3. It’s said to ‘have the blessing’ of the GT department.

What does that mean? It would seem some design came out of Weissach but its not a motorsports vehicle. There is no racing class for SUVs that I know. Here is a 2023 article on the new Cayenne

Testing of the new Porsche Cayenne reaches the home straight

Porsche is meticulously preparing the new Cayenne for its launch. Until then, the prototypes and pre-production vehicles are being subjected to challenging endurance tests to ensure that they meet Porsche’s high quality standards.

newsroom.porsche.com

In addition to realigning the drive portfolio, the engineers at the Porsche Development Centre in Weissach made major revisions to the Cayenne’s chassis system.

So when they mention Weissach, that doesn't seem to necessarily mean Motorsports.

Development Centre Weissach: the heart of Porsche

Every Porsche has the same origin: the Development Centre in Weissach. Take a glimpse into the secret grounds, which extend to around a hundred hectares.

newsroom.porsche.com

Every Porsche has the same origin: the Development Centre in Weissach.

If someone has some evidence the Cayenne Turbo GT is a motorsports car, please provide it. Similarly I expect the Macan EV GT to be the same thing, "blessed" but not a motorsports car under AP. There is a HUGE difference between being a vehicle designed as a homologation car and a street production car. Porsche trim levels can confuse anyone. Macan Turbo? They are all Turbos, etc.

 

Talking with a Porsche dealership sa today about the new EV Macan and he said that they have not taken any orders for either model yet Apparently there is lots of interest and wannabe test drivers....but no actual deposits. They also have a showroom full of new Taycan EVs, some with big discounts off the sticker price.

 

I was genuinely interested in the new EV Macan but have now been left feeling totally deflated after today's disappointing reveal. The only impressive announcement was the supposed, potential maximum range. The increased size, massive weight and ridiculously high prices have completely put me off considering it as a replacement for my current GTS.

Doesn't surprise me at all Andy.. I'm really thinking things over pretty hard before jumping into A Porsche EV.. Would definitely be a second Toy no doubt

 

Anyone wanting a European focused remarks on the EV might want to read rennteam's take on it. Be aware its mostly high end vehicles, exotics and the like, and 911 centric.

The editors POV is the same I mentioned. Sooner or later there will be a breakthrough in chemistry and the early adopters will be crying, more or less.

This is inevitable. There is no Moore's Law for chemistry or physics, but innovation will occur as EVs move out of the realm of the early adopters into the mainstream, or possible the egg before the chicken, etc. Perhaps Toyota always knew, it is premature.

 

Public now compares Macan EV with other manufacturer EV SUV like Hyundai Ionic 5N or some Chinese brand, whereas ICE Porsche positioned just another level of vehicle. Price was justified, superiority was granted. It is not, won't happen with EV vehicle. Sad.

 

This thread was going way OT, sometimes that happens without intentional hijacking. All posts not specific to the OP, that is, Disappointment with the new Macan EV, have been moved to the "Macan EV, EVs, Porsche Future with EVs, rants and random thoughts" thread.

A suggestion for those intent on buying the EV. Don't try to rationalize it or defend your choice. Its your money, do with it as you please. You will not convince anyone to change their mind when no one even owns one yet. Similarly, there is no point in those who oppose buying one to argue against it. Those who are intent on buying one, will do whatever they want with their money, with or without your input.

I suggest, urge, anyone who buys one to post up your delivery in the appropriate section, your specs, etc and once driven, express your opinion on the good, and the bad, in a user review so we can ALL read and see what a member thinks. That is EXACTLY why the user review forum exist, to express your feeling about your car. We have many, many such reviews for the ICE car. Its just a matter of time before the EV reviews start coming in, maybe six month?

In the meantime, if you want to rant in either direction about EVs in general, lets confine that to the Rants thread.

Thanks and carry on here

 

I posted here my best friend that had a Macan before and now has a Cayenne hybrid put down payment to get one of the first Macan EV a few months ago. No, he had no idea how the car would look like when he did that. Tonight we had dinner together and I asked him about the order. He said he decided not to buy the car. I asked why. His response: “It is the ugliest car I ever seen. Porsche really screwed that up.” 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Agreed with that for sure. People do not buy SUVs because they want a low seating position.

 

Stubby...that's the first word that comes to mind when I take in an overall view of the Porsche Macan EV...I'll be holding on to my ICE 2021 Porsche "Macan Turbo", the last of the true Macan Turbos, not some Macan EV with the word "Turbo" glued on the ass end...😅🤣😂😂🤣😂

 

I'm holding on to my 2021 "Real" Macan Turbo as well. Last year of the of true Macan Turbos and definitely MUCH better looking than the Macan EV. In fact, the best looking Macan of all time IMO. I'm just a little biased though

 

Indeed . . .

The Macan design architecture took two major steps backward with the EV front and rear designs . . . not sure anything changed in-between the two ends?

If the new design came with a 2.9L V6 under the hood . . . I still would not want it

AVM

 

I was genuinely interested in the new EV Macan but have now been left feeling totally deflated after today's disappointing reveal. The only impressive announcement was the supposed, potential maximum range. The increased size, massive weight and ridiculously high prices have completely put me off considering it as a replacement for my current GTS.

The EV Macan does have some pluses. It offers more room in the boot, a front trunk, digital screens across the front dash, 380 miles range, a quick charge capability that gets 80% of max range in 20 minutes. The drive sits lower in the vehicle which should make it feel more car like.

The question is can Porsche product an EV that justifies a large premium over other EVs?

To answer a person would really have to drive the EV Macan. Do you get that same Porsche feel you get hearing the ICE fire up? Does the performance in all aspects (power, braking, steering, ride, etc) have the Porsche DNA that sets it apart from the competition? Does it make you look forward to your morning drive?

I’m looking forward to hearing from early buyers.

 

Me too. There is something called porsche DNA, and when tycan first came out my dealer had me come down to take a new tycan out for the weekend to see what I thought. I drove my 911 down, parked it and took tycan out. Came back next day and said, no thanks. Happly driving my 911tt back home.

I fear that will be ev macan experience

 

Once again this thread drifted OT. And once again I had to clean this up.

This thread is about "disappointment in the Macan EV", its not about anything else. Please follow our rules and don't go OT again. General discussion on EV or anything else is at https://www.macanforum.com/threads/...m/threads/macan-ev-evs-porsche-future-with-evs-rants-and-random-thoughts.190893

thanks

 

From the new Macan EV promo video. A 3cm drop in seat height is now somehow "unique" amongst SUV's. Common amongst sedans though !

 

Get 18-way seats and bring your seating position up to what you want before

 

The fact remains that American EV management is going to charge you the most that they can for battery repairs. An example of this is a friend of mine drives for Uber. Uber is contracted with Tesla to provide Tesla cars to some Uber drivers for advertising. She got a new Tesla with a maintenance ticket to get the "battery fixed at Tesla". The Tesla had 40000 miles and Tesla would only replace both battery banks. Each battery bank was 25000 USD. That's 50000 USD at 40000 miles. I've owned many many battery powered items throughout my life, as you all have, and they do not last. Tesla will not repair individual battery element contactors today. They will make you buy an entire battery bank if they can... at 25k per bank. Think of any new ICE vehicle that you might buy today and what component on that ICE vehicle is known to fail at less than 100000 miles and WILL cost you 25000 dollars when it does! It doesn't exist. You can drive ICE vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles without major component repairs/replacements. You can't do that with a battery powered vehicle. My BMW still has the same clutch it had 24 years ago when I bought it! My kitchen All-Clad battery mixer had to be replace at 1 year... three times because the battery would not last. My Stihl lawn equipment uses the Stihl 300S batteries at 250 USD per battery. Only a year later and you can see the battery life is already about half what it was when they were new (these batteries don't decay linearly during the day... the decrease slightly and then drop off a cliff when they are dead).. but the overall life can be seen to be decreasing. I can only get 1.5 mows out of my equipment now where I could get three just a year and a half ago. So the bottom line is even the biggest tech company in the world right now... Apple.... can't get their batteries to last (reference Tim Cook putting out software that decreases daily battery endurance to "increase overall battery lifetime").... so auto companies are going to be nowhere near the tech companies when it comes to battery lifetime. Especially the bottom feeders like Ford, Chevrolet, etc.,... Sure Porsche tested the Macan EV in the cold of winter countries but this is only healthy batteries and not aging batteries. YOU WIILL REGRET BUYING ANY EV. MARK MY WORDS.

 

YOU WIILL REGRET BUYING ANY EV. MARK MY WORDS.

yikes, in case anyone wants non anecdotal information about 1.5% battery failure rate:

What Does A Tesla Battery Replacement Really Cost?

Although rare and primarily applicable to older Teslas, a complete battery replacement can be a substantial financial burden.

carbuzz.com

Tl;dr: around $15k for the entire battery in a Tesla

sorry to your friend who bought out of warranty

 

Thanks Eric! This friend is very close to me and she showed me the repair receipt. Granted this is a big company charging another big company. Certainly some financial "hiding" and tax evading going on there but I did see the receipt. That is a good read from Eric above. Still, a known cost of approximately 15K+ at 100000 miles per this article and Musk. Depends upon the driving. This Uber car probably got driven hard and often and is a good example of the life of a battery under heavy load/driving. When you read these articles you have to remember that they are being written by agencies and CEOs who are motivated by sales. I look at my personal experiences with batteries. Apple's laptop/desktop batteries is a great place to compare because batteries is Apples business and one of their biggest sales elements. Then I live in Florida so a hurricane would have me driving major roads north toward Atlanta. Where are the charging stations en route? Doesn't matter becuase they will all be occupied by other EVs! So an EV here on the Gulf Coast is a "leave it somewhere in Florida and take your ICE vehicle to Atlanta for the hurricane" vehicle. Finally, our power grids per Newson in California can not support all the loads we currently have. In the same breath Newson will tell you, "people must turn their AC off in the summer so we can conserve electricity in our power grids.... oh, and we are getting rid of ICE vehicles so everyone plug in an EV into that grid that can't support everyones ACs being on in the Summers!" Our EVs are still and will be powered by fossil fuels for a long time to come. Production of EVs takes more CO2 equivalent emissions than an ICE vehicle. Primarily in the battery construction phase. Then when an EV hits the road the equivalent CO2 emissions are greater than ICE vehicles becuase EVs are charged by fossil fuels. EVs are the biggest scam inflicted on the human race since Hitler in WWII. If it were an earnest attempt to save the environment, the government would have started with the power grid and then worked their way to the vehicles on the roads. But it is a get rich scheme for friends, family, politicians and personal wealth.

 

Hey, the new Macan EV has 12 individual battery modules with 15 cells each but not one.

In case one cell is defective or an accident damages some outer modules the game is not over as with highly integrated battery modules, which can only be changed completely and not get repaired.
Some very clever EV vendors integrate the battery even as a part of the chassis, which lets a side crash or individual cell defect result in a total loss.
But it has to be noted that the general development direction goes into this latter direction, therefore Porsche Macan EV is creditable exception.

 

So today I finally got to see and drive a new electric Macan. I drove the Turbo model and yes, it was fast....but the performance was the only thing that really impressed me, overall it was a big disappointment. In the flesh the car looks so dull, not what you would expect from a £120,000 Porsche. It looks just like a £45,000 Kia or Mazda or Nissan, etc. The good thing is that now I have made a firm decision and ordered another brand new (petrol engined) GTS....delivery expected mid March 2025. I personally think Porsche have made a massive mistake with this new electric Macan.

 

So today I finally got to see and drive a new electric Macan. I drove the Turbo model and yes, it was fast....but the performance was the only thing that really impressed me, overall it was a big disappointment. In the flesh the car looks so dull, not what you would expect from a £120,000 Porsche. It looks just like a £45,000 Kia or Mazda or Nissan, etc. The good thing is that now I have made a firm decision and ordered a brand new (petrol engined) GTS....delivery expected mid March 2025. I personally think Porsche have made a massive mistake with this new electric Macan.

Congrats on your GTS! I think that's what you needed all along. Now you can get the EV next and wont feel disappointed. My petrol cars are for fun events, the 1 EV is for comfort.

 

Had a Macan 4 for a day as replacement for our Macan T yesterday.
My wife and I feel that the interior does not look as fine and high-class as in our '23 Macan T. Especially the buttons in the doors look cheap, my wife doesn't like the somewhat "ungraceful" design in comparison to ours. She didn't particular like the front lighting arrangement.
Before collecting our car at the dealer, I did some power and suspension testing. Plentyful power in comparison to the T, no reason to complain, later our sales person compared its performance with the GTS, could be... Fortunately I found the knob to deactivate the assisted driving gimmicks when testing curves and bends in sports mode. My short impression was that it works quite heavily on the front axle.
It had rear steering, which gave centrifugal forces a different feel, somehow a like a controlled, but avoided drift from the rear axle.

Woudn't say I would avoid it in the future, but we feel fine with our T today. On the other hand, if I had known how much personal appreciation the T raised so far for us, I would have bought a new GTS...but a wasted opportunity...

 

Remember, the Cayanne and then the Macan later saved Porsche from going under. Now the interference from the EU government and the expensive poor quality of this Macan EV is going to put Porsche out of business. Mark my words. Unless the EU backs off this no sense, and they wont, weve seen the end of Porsche. No one is going to buy Porsche EV enough to keep Porsche alive.

 

They’ll just go back to cramped dealerships in major urban areas selling 1-2 911s a month. EVs are not the future.

 

I share your view, @grim , however EV tech is nowhere mature, except in niches (Tesla) and in China, it seems. I wouldn’t underestimate the power of sudden unemployment spikes as currently seen in early stages in Germany’s car industry. Moral policies and regulatory interventions will hit the real world with force. Everywhere in Europe, people vote against them. Let millions lose their jobs in the automotive industry and others, and we’ll see sudden changes to allow carmakers to survive.

 

I was at a Porsche Club meeting tonight, which happened to be at my local Porsche dealer where they unveiled both Macan EV models. Some people have said that the car looks better in person than in photos, so I was glad to have the opportunity to judge for myself. Maybe I'm biased, but I like the look of my 2023 Macan S more than the new EV design. That applies to the exterior shape (although the new copper metallic color is pretty interesting), the dashboard (I still prefer analog gauges), the center console, and even the clock on the dashboard. The only things I prefer in the EV model are (1) the rear sear release levers in the trunk, (2) the trunk lighting is brighter, and (3) there are larger side pockets in the trunk for storage of miscellaneous small things, and a couple of elastic straps on the sides of the trunk that could probably hold a bag of groceries on each side of the trunk. The window sticker on the Macan Turbo at my dealer was $130K, although I didn't read the list of options on that particular car. The ICE Macan is theoretically due for a refresh in the next couple of years, so I wonder if Porsche will change body shapes on the ICE model to match the EV model.

 

The ICE Macan is theoretically due for a refresh in the next couple of years, so I wonder if Porsche will change body shapes on the ICE model to match the EV model

that’s the thing… as of today, there will be no ICE successor, ever. All EV. You are driving the final ICE Macan model (unless Porsche changes their mind which looks unlikely at the moment. But never say never…)

 

Yeah, they're done with the ICE. Smoke 'em while you've got 'em.

One bit of good news is that the trunk lighting can be improved greatly.

 

Initially, Porsche said that the EV would replace the ICE Macan. Then, they came to their senses and realized how much of their sales comes from the Macan, and also realized that EV sales in general are not taking off like lots of people predicted they would, so they decided to keep the ICE Macan wherever it could be sold. The Macan EV will satisfy a certain group of people who want that type of car, but let's see what happens over time. If Macan EV sales drop after that initial batch of interested buyers have their EV sitting in their garage, but ICE sales continue, it's going to be a tough decision for Porsche to completely drop the ICE Macan worldwide. If Porsche decides that it can continue to make money with ICE Macans, how long can they go without a refresh? The situation will be interesting to watch.

However, THANKS for the trunk lighting suggestion!! A while ago, I posted and asked if anyone had any solution for the poor trunk lighting, but I got no responses. I just purchased two different lighting kits on Ebay thanks to the link you provided. 10X 194 T10 LED CANBUS Plate License Interior Wedge Light Bright Bulbs White Y | eBay and 4Pcs White CANBUS Error Free 5050-SMD 6 LED Car Indoor Footwell Lights Lamps | eBay Hopefully, one of them will work.

 

Sorry, where did they say they will continue the ICE models? I was under the impression they changed the whole tooling line to EV’s?

 

They will continue producing the current ICE Macan models for North America (and other markets?) through at least 2026, as I understand it. But no facelift has been announced, and I can't imagine them shoehorning the ICE powertrain into the PPE electric platform.

The ICE 718 models are said to be going away for everybody in 2025.