What are people paying for brakes and at what mileage are they being replaced? I had a warning light come on after only 12K miles. Didn't think it was a real alert, but apparently it was! I don't the ride brakes or track my Macan, so didn't understand how it was even possible to wear them down so fast. I had to replace all brakes and rotors at a cost of $2000 at dealer.
Cost of Brakes and Rotor Service
Phillymacan
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That's what I don't get. I wouldn't blink at 30000 miles but 12 to 13 K seems extreme to me. Something is not right, but how do you prove it.
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Hm. Just curious: Do you have PTV+?
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Have you changed the back brakes and rotors yet? What do you need to change the back brakes? Couldn't figure out the computer input.
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Front ones, agree.
Back ones, lack of equipment, so therefore impossible, not that they are difficult.
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12k miles = 19,312km
I have 32,000km with 10+ Autocross events , 3+ track days and my brakes are still fine..
Something wrong with yours.. Thats nor normal.
New brakes at 12k miles does seem early. And given that the front brakes generally do 70% of the work, I seriously question whether the rear brakes actually needed work.
Unfortunately, many dealerships in the industry will charge much more for parts than if you procure the parts yourself. The Lexus dealership I was acquainted with typically charged double the over-the-counter parts price. Dealerships also tend to push fluid flushes & changes, which are a high margin item for them. I was once told by an insider, that because the Manufacturer required the dealership to build expensive showrooms and state-of-the-art service bays, that the dealership employees were pressed hard to find ways to increase revenue to pay for it all.
For brakes specifically, most dealerships will tell you that you need to install new rotors every time you replace the pads. In my opinion, this is total nonsense.
Yes....historical best practice has been to re-surface a car's rotors every time the pads were changed. But that was back when the original rotors could be removed, machined flat & smooth, and re-installed at a minimal cost. With today's floating rotors that are difficult to machine, rotor replacement is sometimes the only way to restore the rotor surface to new condition.
But in practice, there is little to be gained by having a fresh rotor surface when changing pads. The new pads will quickly bed themselves and adjust to any minor imperfections on the old rotors.
As long as the existing rotors have not become excessively irregular, or too thin, they should be fine for 50 - 90k miles.
Because of all this, many folks will stick with the dealership until the warranty period expires, and then switch to a good independent mechanic who has lower shop overhead.....or trade-in the car before the larger routine maintenance starts to kick-in.
Unfortunately, many dealerships in the industry will charge much more for parts than if you procure the parts yourself. The Lexus dealership I was acquainted with typically charged double the over-the-counter parts price. Dealerships also tend to push fluid flushes & changes, which are a high margin item for them. I was once told by an insider, that because the Manufacturer required the dealership to build expensive showrooms and state-of-the-art service bays, that the dealership employees were pressed hard to find ways to increase revenue to pay for it all.
For brakes specifically, most dealerships will tell you that you need to install new rotors every time you replace the pads. In my opinion, this is total nonsense.
Yes....historical best practice has been to re-surface a car's rotors every time the pads were changed. But that was back when the original rotors could be removed, machined flat & smooth, and re-installed at a minimal cost. With today's floating rotors that are difficult to machine, rotor replacement is sometimes the only way to restore the rotor surface to new condition.
But in practice, there is little to be gained by having a fresh rotor surface when changing pads. The new pads will quickly bed themselves and adjust to any minor imperfections on the old rotors.
As long as the existing rotors have not become excessively irregular, or too thin, they should be fine for 50 - 90k miles.
Because of all this, many folks will stick with the dealership until the warranty period expires, and then switch to a good independent mechanic who has lower shop overhead.....or trade-in the car before the larger routine maintenance starts to kick-in.
I painted my calipers by fully removing the calipers off the rotors. In the process I did remove the brake pads on both front and rear. No special equipment is needed except a triple square bit which can be found at pep boys. I didn't take off the rotor, but that part is generally easy to remove.
I replaced my rear pads with aftermarket ceramics for less brake dust. PM if anyone want to buy my OEM rear pads. I'm sell the cheap. And less than 500 miles in them.
Btw the rear calipers is the same ones used in VW and Audi vehicles. Both logo were stamped on various parts. Kinda embarrassing to find those logos on a Porsche.
I replaced my rear pads with aftermarket ceramics for less brake dust. PM if anyone want to buy my OEM rear pads. I'm sell the cheap. And less than 500 miles in them.
Btw the rear calipers is the same ones used in VW and Audi vehicles. Both logo were stamped on various parts. Kinda embarrassing to find those logos on a Porsche.
I did them on my former Cayenne at 32K miles .
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good direction, but still even with ptv and track time pads should not be worn that quick. also if ptv was defective, the smell of brake pads would be telltale.
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Not quite sure why the rotors need changed other than for dollars to the dealer. Is this coming from Porsche?
And unnecessary and more intrusive maintenance is not without risks. There is significantly more disassembly to remove and replace disks and it gives a chance to get dirt and rust between the critical mating surfaces or disturb balance and runout.
Properly broken in rotors that have not been abused are probably BETTER than new rotors.
Perhaps it is for "nanny" reasons as the dealer doesn't want to take any responsibility for anything but new pads on new disks and who cares about the customer's cost or the environment?
And unnecessary and more intrusive maintenance is not without risks. There is significantly more disassembly to remove and replace disks and it gives a chance to get dirt and rust between the critical mating surfaces or disturb balance and runout.
Properly broken in rotors that have not been abused are probably BETTER than new rotors.
Perhaps it is for "nanny" reasons as the dealer doesn't want to take any responsibility for anything but new pads on new disks and who cares about the customer's cost or the environment?
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Curious on a couple of point here:
Did you need to do anything special to re-set the rear calipers? The Porsche instructions insist on using the PWIS tool to rewind the rear parking brake motor to the right place. You might have been lucky because the pads were of almost identical thickness? Not sure what Audi or VW do with the same TRW system?
You are aware that you probably introduced a different coefficient of friction between the front and the rear brakes? A lot of effort goes into fine tuning the piston forces on each axel and balancing the brakes. That assumes a known and matched brake pad material.
You'd probably not feel the difference until the limit and even then probably in hard cornering only. Probably not the best time to feel it for the first time.
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I did, but haven't inspected yet (deed is done so I'm procrastinating...)
Audi recommends using VAG-COM to retract the 12-volt step-motor on the rear parking brake before changing pads. According to the Audi enthusiasts, however, there are two alternative methods that don't require hooking-up to the car's computer:
1. With everything on the calipers still fully assembled, disconnect the electric connector from the caliper. Inside the connector on the caliper, you'll see two medal pins sticking up. Using a 12 volt battery source, connect a positive jumper to pin 2, and connect the negative jumper to pin 1. If the caliper piston starts to push out, stop and reverse the electrical leads. You should hear the parking brake retract. Initially, the piston will not move. Continue until the caliper piston starts to spin, then stop! Now push the caliper piston back into the caliper with a brake tool, channel locks, c-clamp, etc. Replace pads as you would normally. After all the pads have been replaced. Pump brake pedal until you have a firm pedal. Then turn on and off the electromechanical parking brake a few times and you should be good to go.
2. Release the parking brake, jack up the car, remove the wheel. Remove the two bolts holding the caliper on. Then wiggle the caliper free, remove the old brake pads and install the new ones. Then you can either use pliers, or or rent a piston retraction tool from Pep-Boys, to turn the piston in the direction which will wind-back the piston into the caliper. The tool, with various adapters, will look something like this one:
You need to put on the correct adapter, then attach it to the tool, and start to wind back the piston. It will take a little while and it will sometimes not go at all. Just take the tool off and reposition the adapter and turn some more. You will start to notice after checking if it fits back over the new pads, that it is getting more clearance. Keep this up until it is fully retracted. And again, it may feel as if its not going back any, but it is, just keep spinning, and if it gets stuck, take off adapter and reposition and keep on spinning. If after you reposition the adapter and it doesnt spin anymore, check fitment and it will slide right on. After all the pads & calipers have been replaced. Pump brake pedal until you have a firm pedal. Then turn on and off the electromechanical parking brake a few times and you should be good to go.
I have not personally tried either of these methods, but can picture how each would work. If interested, you could always do some searches on the Audi forums for confirmation. Always wear your safety glasses when working on brakes. Some of those clips have a way of flying off in all directions. And always use jack stands to secure the car....don't rely on a hydraulic jack. Hope this helps. Best of luck.
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I agree, I don't see how there could be any way that the rotors would be in need of replacing, unless its due to a inherent flaw with the calipers/braking system which contributed to the pads wearing out so quickly. Only explanation I can even pull out of thin air would be that the calipers weren't retracting the pads far enough after braking and all pads were dragging on the rotors causing the wear and excess heat maybe causing the rotors to warp/wear out of spec.
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One of my colleagues said they owned an previous generation of Cayenne and said he got rid of it because brake changes were too frequent and really expensive. I wasn't sure if this was common. This seems to echo the same vein. Other Porsche owners, have you had any of this and can chime in, good or bad on frequent changes in brake pads and rotors?
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I just had my 10k service and the dealership reported no problems with my brakes. I don't recall the exact measurement - but it was well over 50% left.
Thanks for the write-up. I checked the Durametric website, and buried under their software update list, it now has support for the Macan 2014+. I emailed them to check if the software has the parking brake service setting.
As a side note, I've got 23k miles on my Macan, and plenty of brake pad left.
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535 Posts
An issue with brake service is that dealers have liability and financial incentives that are not necessarily aligned with the owners interests.
Upselling unneeded disk replacement is one, as is resurfacing. Brake fluid change is another. Here in California I have tested fluid a few times with not even a detectable trace of copper / moisture and the test system uses a logarithmic scale so it’s telling me I have a lot less than a fraction of 1% of the contamination level for a change. I guess it’s in the warranty book so I'll need to waste good fluid and risk a less than factory job sooner than I'd like.
The other factor is many dealers assume that they have to protect you from yourself and from driving aggressively for 1.5 times the next service interval so will change pads way too soon. That's why some change at 5mm or more. Of course they only do that for you and not their bottom line.
If you can be more responsible for your own maintenance and even slightly mechanically inclined you can take control of some this or just agree to the potential waste.
Upselling unneeded disk replacement is one, as is resurfacing. Brake fluid change is another. Here in California I have tested fluid a few times with not even a detectable trace of copper / moisture and the test system uses a logarithmic scale so it’s telling me I have a lot less than a fraction of 1% of the contamination level for a change. I guess it’s in the warranty book so I'll need to waste good fluid and risk a less than factory job sooner than I'd like.
The other factor is many dealers assume that they have to protect you from yourself and from driving aggressively for 1.5 times the next service interval so will change pads way too soon. That's why some change at 5mm or more. Of course they only do that for you and not their bottom line.
If you can be more responsible for your own maintenance and even slightly mechanically inclined you can take control of some this or just agree to the potential waste.
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