[Bingr]

Porsches updated service bulletin is recommending steel bolts with aluminum washers.

 

[Casey]

During a routine oil change my Indy mechanic found oil "seepage" on the TCC of my 2015 Macan S. He recommended the two bolt replacement and quoted me $600 for the repair (his bills usually run about 65% of my local dealer charges) They called Fidelity Warranty (extended warranty) on my behalf and Fidelity will cover all but my $250 deductible. Before proceeding, decided to check with my local Porsche dealer who also will do two bolt replacement and will also deal with Fidelity as well. They did not give me an estimate for the job.Given that I'll be paying the same $250 deductible at both places, decided to give the Porsche dealer my business on the off chance that the job turns out to be more involved once they get into it.

 

[terripr469]

Start reviewing post 1,117 in this thread and then several of my post after that one. Al the information you are asking for is there.

I used like for like (meaning is an aluminum alloy), but I heard Porsche changed specs for these screws to a stronger alloy. Waiting to hear from some members here. For now, they are performing well, and I will only change them if they fail again. I’m monitoring closely.

The screws are M6x30 Torx.

If you decide to replace yourself, make sure you read this thread. You should use high temperature thread sealant. All information is here.

Disclaimer: This is what worked for my Macan. If you are in doubt, I do recommend you seek the help of a professional.

View attachment 253112

Hi. I'm having a hard time finding post 1,117. Can you help?

 

[uwdawgfan]

Hi. I'm having a hard time finding post 1,117. Can you help?

Oil leak anyone?

My passenger side vents on the under-engine shield were moist with oil and a few drops were on the floor. Oh, no is my first thought and I'll skip all the rest. I went out on a limb and purchased my Macan used with 26k miles, so who really knows what the history is here? I briefly looked over...

www.macanforum.com

 

[Santirx]

I don't think anyone has actually posted the torque spec for the M6 Steel fastener and aluminum washer swap yet. I think Santirx mentioned using 9 NM plus additional 45 degrees clockwise tightening rotation. The Steel fastener specs will likely be different.

As it stands right now in my case with steel fastener and aluminum washer, I'm at least at 9 to 10 NM plus additional 45 degrees before I could notably say I think the seepage has stopped on the driver side. My guess is I'm at about 11-12 NM at this point as I've verified that my mini torque wrench clicked at 9 NM and then I continued to wrench further 45 degrees further with a slim 1/4" hex head socket wrench. A typical Grade 8.8 M6 fastener has max torque spec of 11.8 NM. I'm still working on the passenger side and will run motor for 30 minutes and inspect tonight. I'm also using the Permatex high temp thread sealant which should in theory lower the required torque requirement...

My first attempt before being able to fit my torque wrench into the slot was done by feel which I don't recommend anybody try to do because I still had a little seepage on passenger side and greater seepage from driver side. If it helps, something in the range of 3" depth from the tip of the T30 head to the back of the torque wrench would fit best. At 4" depth, I was able to barely get it to fit onto the passenger side, but no go for fitting on the driver side.

5/4/22 Update:
I had the torque wrench set at 10 NM and snugged both Steel screws up while engine was cold. Both screws were coated with high temp thread sealant, so can be treated as a lubricated fastener. Before running the engine, I wiped cleaned both sides down with alcohol water and paper towel. I then ran the engine for 20 minutes with the inspection camera taking a photo every 10 mins to try and capture progress of any oil seepage.
Passenger Side: After 20 minutes, I could clearly see a light but distinct oil seepage line from the TCC gasket line just below where it intersects with the valve cover. I then shut the motor off and wiped the area off to confirm that there was still oil seepage on the paper towel. Being impatient and not wanting to wait a day for it to cool down, I decided continue to torquing the Steel fastener on the warmed up engine at 10 NM again which rotated easily another 45 degrees to 60 degrees before the wrench clicked.

Driver Side: After 20 minutes of running, the camera could not detect any seepage at all. This is the one that I believed to have been resolved the day before already. After turning off the engine, I went ahead and put a paper towel onto the area to see if I could detect any oil on the paper. I was able to find just trace amounts of oil on the paper towel. It was faint but there. With the engine still warm, I proceeded to tighten the driver side TCC fastener to 10 NM as I did on the opposite side and able to rotate nearly 90 degrees before hitting 10 NM.

Final Test: With both sides cleaned off lubricated screws torqued to 10 NM on a warmed up engine, I ran the engine for 30 minutes total and took a photo during that run every 10 minutes. I was unable to detect anymore seepage coming from either side on the camera after 30 minutes. I turned off the vehicle, removed the air filters once again and wiped the TCC screw area off with a paper towel to see if I could detect any seepage on the paper. To my surprise, the paper towel was finally clean on both sides. Finally no more seepage. My process was definitely not the best and I probably should have been torquing with the engine cooled down, but I was out of patience to wait another day to resolve this issue. If I had done all this with a cold engine, my non-professional presumption would be that the cold torque spec is near 11 NM, but take this with a grain of salt until we have the Porsche torque spec information.

Just wanted to share my journey and results with the 2-bolt TCC fix. In hindsight, I should have called around to dealer service departments to ask what the cold torque spec for this steel M6 fastener should be. That would have made this fix happen in a fraction of the time without having to continually check after running and snugging up the fasteners until the seepage stopped. Also, I should have been wearing heat resistant gloves as I burned the top of my hand a little on the hot engine while wiping up some dirty dried up oil I found. [emoji856]

Parts used:
Steel Screws: N91097101
Aluminum Washer: 99902519330
Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant coated on screw threads

Very good news. Thanks for posting and also for providing information on the steel bolts.

I’m wary of just changing my aluminum bolts right now, as my leak was completely stopped, but may just make the change in the near future just to be done with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

Great investigative work but it does seem to confirm that these bolts, all of them, are not up to the job. No wonder Porsche isn't saying anything. A cursory check of the number of these fasteners used to hold the engine together is truly scary and a recall to replace all of them might as well be "install a new engine".

Seems to confirm my point above about the possibility of having broken screws even before there's any oil leaks.

The one you can't replace ... is that the one circled in yellow in pic 2? If so, I think you've just made a good case for replacing each and every screw that has goes into something with a blind end.

Jules

YES!

IIRC, the root cause of the TCC oil leak is the fact that one or more of these Torx fasteners has failed to remain
securely attached to the engine block. Initially it was reported that they (the Torx screws) were fracturing. If the TCC does not remain
securely clamped to the engine block, it will result in some amount of oil seepage past the sealant and the metal gasket(s).

 

[911_Love]

Please see the attached service bulletin. I believe, it addresses all the questions.

 

[acronymous]

Thanks 911_Love. Interesting but not surprising that Porsche have the gall to put out a glossy service bulletin to cover this issue while still not taking responsibility for shoddy design.

Jules

 

[BrettB]

I've been talking to a few dealers around the area the get a quote on the fix and the prices have been all over the place. I'm wondering what others have been quoted.

Dealer 1: ~$650
Dealer 2: ~$1000
Dealer 3: ~$1200

All of which are saying they aren't even sure when they would be able to do the fix because the bolts are very much on backorder...

 

[carsly]

I've been talking to a few dealers around the area the get a quote on the fix and the prices have been all over the place. I'm wondering what others have been quoted.

Dealer 1: ~$650
Dealer 2: ~$1000
Dealer 3: ~$1200

All of which are saying they aren't even sure when they would be able to do the fix because the bolts are very much on backorder...

I posted my quote, and then a copy of my actual service invoice once the work was completed, in post #51 in this thread. Others have shared quotes as well.

I can't speak to your dealers, but if you read the bulletin there is a triage process. I expect some of the variance is due to which bolts need to be replaced and/or if they are loose or already broken (more labor). And of course, profiteering.

 

[JoeInBucks]

Please see the attached service bulletin. I believe, it addresses all the questions.

The link is to a service bulletin for the Cayenne MY 2011-2018. Is there another specifically for the Macan?

Symptom-based workshop manual
Service
210/21 ENU 1533
1
Engine Symptom - Loose/Broken Screws and Oil Leaks in the Area of the Chain Housing Cover and/or Camshaft Phaser (SY 210/21)
Revision: Model Year: Model Series: Concerns: Symptom:
This bulletin replaces bulletin WTY 2000.2, dated March 30, 2021.
As of 2011 up to 2018
Cayenne (92A)
Chain housing cover and camshaft phaser
Oil leak at the chain housing cover and/or camshaft phaser or a loose or broken screw in the chain housing cover.  Screws for chain housing cover

 

[dandaman]

I think this is what you want.

 

[acronymous]

I've had a bit of trouble with the so called "two bolt fix", shown here as an extract from the pdf. because checking back on the work done by Santirx and Bingr the problem isn't "two bolt" it's at least "4 bolt" which includes 1 and 2 as shown here [on the left side 1 is top left corner of the left "wing", two is top right corner of the right "wing" of the TCC.]

In addition I think I'm right in saying that Santirx and Bingr replaced the screw on the top right corner of the left wing of the cover and the top left screw of the right wing of the cover. [Sorry, arrows might have made this easier to understand but I think the words are clear enough.]

For anyone having the "two bolt fix" surely a "4 screw (they're actually screws in this situation not bolts, sorry for the pedantry) fix" would make sense and add very little to both the parts and labor?

Jules

 

[Santirx]

View attachment 256954
I've had a bit of trouble with the so called "two bolt fix", shown here as an extract from the pdf. because checking back on the work done by Santirx and Bingr the problem isn't "two bolt" it's at least "4 bolt" which includes 1 and 2 as shown here [on the left side 1 is top left corner of the left "wing", two is top right corner of the right "wing" of the TCC.]

In addition I think I'm right in saying that Santirx and Bingr replaced the screw on the top right corner of the left wing of the cover and the top left screw of the right wing of the cover. [Sorry, arrows might have made this easier to understand but I think the words are clear enough.]

For anyone having the "two bolt fix" surely a "4 screw (they're actually screws in this situation not bolts, sorry for the pedantry) fix" would make sense and add very little to both the parts and labor?

Jules

@acronymous, in my case, I replaced exactly those screws, labeled 1 and 2 in your drawing.

 

[dtrykow]

So, leaks didn’t get fixed. They had the wrong bolts. The correct ones are on back order from Porsche.
I put a quart in today. Maybe a month wait. Probably only drive it locally for now. They fixed some other minor issues. Dave T.

 

[dandaman]

Several weeks ago I called the service department at my Porsche dealer. I told them that my 2017 GTS (production competition date of 20 March 2016) had the TCC oil leak and that I had one year remaining on my Fidelity extended warranty. Without hesitation their reply was "our next loaner car is available on June 26, 2022. Drop the car off, and we will need to car for several weeks to take the engine out". So I did. The car was available on July 21, 2022. The invoice amounted to $10,283.83. Fidelity paid for everything except my $250 deductible. Obviously, there were more than 2 bolts to fix as you can see from the attached 3 pages of invoice

. Frankly, this reminds me of my BMW 650 N63 "stealth recall" of several years ago. That is, known issues but only addressed if reported by the customer.

 

[Sincity]

Several weeks ago I called the service department at my Porsche dealer. I told them that my 2017 GTS (production competition date of 20 March 2016) had the TCC oil leak and that I had one year remaining on my Fidelity extended warranty. Without hesitation their reply was "our next loaner car is available on June 26, 2022. Drop the car off, and we will need to car for several weeks to take the engine out". So I did. The car was available on July 21, 2022. The invoice amounted to $10,283.83. Fidelity paid for everything except my $250 deductible. Obviously, there were more than 2 bolts to fix as you can see from the attached 3 pages of invoice
. Frankly, this reminds me of my BMW 650 N63 "stealth recall" of several years ago. That is, known issues but only addressed if reported by the customer.

Glad to see Fidelity covered it.

 

[Draper]

Just had this done at the dealer yesterday.

$740 (less 10% PCA discount).

Moving on...

 

[Teddis]

Awesome @Draper

 

[Draper]

Here's an image of the invoice. I was told oil was 'starting to seep' so I don't think it has been an issue for too long. Currently at ~45K miles.

3+ hours to install ~$15 worth of parts. 😂