Great info....someone posted here recently about the new "bolt kit" for this repair.
The question is....if you do not have this leak....is this a good or bad pro active step ?

 

As I understand this is a problem that only occurs at build time, not randomly during normal operation. The 2 bolts are over-torqued during build resulting in both breaking. Some people have commented that the bolt was made from aluminum and was too weak for the intended application - I can't verify this.

Oil leaks develop within a few 1000 miles due to vibration and heat. You can't normally see the leak source because it's covered by the engine cover and a ton of pipes, but if you get in there, you will be able to see the it. The best evidence is the top of the bottom engine cover, when it was pulled for an oil change, the top of the cover may be saturated with oil. Keep in mind, that oil could also be a minor leak from a oil filter not being quite tight enough.

I never saw oil on my driveway and never had to top up. Never smelt anything and no smoke. If it wasn't for this forum, I may never have known.

If you are concerned, you can ask the dealer to do an inspection. They will check the bottom cover and degrease the front of the engine. Go back in 2-3K miles and they will visually inspect. They charge ~$200 (CDN) for this process, but will refund it, if a leak is found.

 

..., and the dialogue that has ensued accidentally uncovered that Porsche (evidently) has JUST RECENTLY AUTHORIZED a NON ENGINE OUT repair for the timing bolt leak. Meaning, what many guys on the forum have already done by simply replacing the bolts (only) instead of the complete engine out/drop method and resealing the gasket too.

I was talking to my local Porsche dealer tech last year about about issues and what I would be facing when the CPO ran out. This subject and about a half dozen others came up. They told me replacing the bolts (I think to steel) could be done in advance for a preventative measure. And I asked why that couldn't be a resolution and he said it can, and don't worry about that anymore.

Also mentioned that a more frequent fluid change seemed to hold off the transfer case problem - but that isn't something Porsche "officially" claims. There was no work around for the AC.

Later this week I have to take my other car in and will ask him for specifics.

 

Is it possible to link the discussion from Facebook or PM? Tks.

 

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Replaced both bolts thanks to Santirx. The right angle super jawgrip pliers to get backside of bolt to where I could spin them by hand. Just removed both air boxes.

 

I missed the Santirx post so I'll scroll back to check it out but a couple of questions ...

• If that's a picture of the old bolt and it snapped about half way down, how did you get the tip end out?
• Is that bullet tip on the bolt normal, or a result of wear or something else?
• Is there any form of spring washer used? [I've been thinking that a fibre washer could be a good idea both as a seal and to help with any stress caused by expansion of the case metal]

Jules

 

These screws are pass through, meaning you see the screw on both sides…. You can see the tip there. The smooth tip is designed.

Photo below, left screw is new, right screw is obviously the one that snapped...

In this photo you can see how the screw is passthrough... When snapped, you can take the part of the screw on the right out, and the remaining through the back (left in the photo)...

 

Reference back to this post: Oil leak anyone?

Canadian dealer shops are now performing a 2 bolt fix for the TC leak issue since ~March 8. I had mine completed yesterday. I'm to come back in 3 months and Porsche will verify if it's fixed or not. If not, then they do the engine pull. Had to wait a week for the screws and washers to ship from Germany.

I've never had to top up my oil, the leak could not have been that bad, although the bottom cover was pretty bad (more likely due to a slow leak over years). Disadvantage of not having a dipstick, you can't easily evaluate changes over time.

.

 

FAST: Hope that takes care of it.

 

Reading the fine print I see the Canadian dealer invoice attachment from FAST mentions 2 steel screws and 2 aluminium washers as the fix.

The part no. for the screw, from the invoice, N-910-971-01 comes up as "passenger air bag mount bolt" on a search, which is interesting but doesn't tell us anything beyond the fact that the screw/bolt has not been specifically designed for the timing chain case.

Jules

 

I asked my SA at the dealer that has maintained my car the question of what would it cost to perform the new Porsche approach to fix the TC leakage problem. She researched it and told me this;

Parts and labor is approx. $1250-1350+tax for the replacement bolts/hardware needed.

So there you have it.

 

Just for reference, having a good relationship with your SA pays off. My Macan is 7 years old, way out of warranty and the oil leak started last December and the dealer said it was the TCC. My SA said he would work with Porsche to get it covered and after 3 days with the car there the issue was solved and I was asked to pay $250 so it would add a warranty to the repair. I was happy paying that money to get the car fixed out of warranty.

 

That's exactly as it should be with each and every one of these cars that develop this problem. It shouldn't depend on the goodwill of your SA or any other factors that have nothing to do with the cause of the problem ... a mistake by Porsche.

Jules

 

was at my Porsche dealer today getting brake fluid done and asked them to check despite my not seeing any oil in the pan, on the floor, or on the underside when doing my annual oil change a few months ago. Also have seen zero consumption that I can detect with the electronic gauge. Call it paranoia.

My SA reported two bolts broken but that a couple weeks ago Porsche issued an updated service bulletin with triage instructions. It seems that the now suggested fix in this scenario is replacing the aluminum bolts with new steel bolts (have to be ordered from Germany). Estimated to be a 30 min job, total with parts = $107. Said they had someone in a few weeks ago before the updated bulletin came out, they had to charge the customer $11,000+ for the engine out repair. Said engine out is a full week for a tech - 40 hours - that they schedule Mon-Fri. Techs apparently hate doing it and the dealer doesn’t like it either as it ties up a tech for an entire week and then creates the risk of something else going wrong during removal or install.

$107 or $11,000+ that’s quite a differential diagnosis!

 

My SA reported two bolts broken but that a couple weeks ago Porsche issued an updated service bulletin with triage instructions. It seems that the now suggested fix in this scenario is replacing the aluminum bolts with new steel bolts (have to be ordered from Germany). Estimated to be a 30 min job, total with parts = $107. Said they had someone in a few weeks ago before the updated bulletin came out, they had to charge the customer $11,000+ for the engine out repair. Said engine out is a full week for a tech - 40 hours - that they schedule Mon-Fri. Techs apparently hate doing it and the dealer doesn’t like it either as it ties up a tech for an entire week and then creates the risk of something else going wrong during removal or install.

$107 or $11,000+ that’s quite a differential diagnosis!

Exactly what I reported in post #12. Release date was March 8 here. I was told 1 hour + parts, includes degreasing the front of the engine, cleaning the bottom engine cover, topping up oil. Dealer is given $95CDN to do the work, they would charge $240CDN to do it off warranty.

I asked my SA at the dealer that has maintained my car the question of what would it cost to perform the new Porsche approach to fix the TC leakage problem. She researched it and told me this;

Parts and labor is approx. $1250-1350+tax for the replacement bolts/hardware needed.

It appears wwahl's dealer is ripping people off.

 

Interesting that Porsche is charging $107 for a pair of screws that are re-assigned from their previous career as "passenger air bag mount" screws.

Has anyone had a close look at these [steel screws]? Are they zinc plated, stainless or otherwise unusual in some way? I'd guess zinc plated but stainless would be a better choice.

Jules

 

That price includes labor estimated at 30 mins. Implies bolts and washers are closer to $20. Which for any “Porsche” branded part sounds par for the course.

 

Ah, sorry didn't read your post closely enough but wwahl's post was suggesting $1,000+ so $107 all up is a very good deal.

jules

 

@FAST , was this pfaff Vaughan ?

 

No

No, Oakville Porsche. I split my maintenance between Oakville and Pfaff depending on availability of loaner and where I'm working at the time.

^^-- I worded that incorrectly. I use Oakville/Pfaff for my warranty work. I use an independent shop for my maintenance and tuner work.

 

10-4. I was gonna try Markham.
Wonder if they got all the machines in now …..


2016 MT

 

Hi guys,

I joined this forum just now and thought it be cool to share this important detail that there is in fact a new and updated service bulletin (as of March 2, 2022 - see the third picture at the bottom corner) by Porsche in regards to the timing housing cover leak.

A repair that doesn't require the engine to be out to address the infamous leak that plagues 2014 to 2018 v6 Macans. Instead of being hit with a $15,000 engine out repair bill, the new bulletin will now only be around $800 with parts and 4.0 labor hours (give or take depending on your dealer labor rate) to repair the issue.

 

I asked my dealer how many customers came back after replacing just the two culprit bolts with new Porsche recommended aluminum bolts and he says not one. $900
I am curious if anyone else has had this done without any further issues?
Indy wants $1200 to replace all bolts.

 

Thanks for this. Matches up with what my SA described last week, they have to identify and categorize the issue first. Not all will be eligible for the two-bolt replacement fix, but when they are it's much faster and much less expensive. I was told less than an hour, let's see. I'm scheduled for Monday, 3/28, at 8am ET. Will report back after and share the invoice.

 

Yes, that is correct. This revised bulletin is a few weeks old so I'm not sure if this would fully address the issue entirely or a just temporary solution. The individual I spoke with stated that they have done a few V6s under the new bulletin issued by Porsche and it's been a success... so far. Only time will tell if this new method works as people put more miles on it.

If you're out of warranty, I wouldn't be surprised if some dealers hit you back with an engine out job order with their argument being that they need to do the job "correctly" by sealing up everything and replacing so/so parts while the engine is out.

The reason so is that Porsche warranty will only pay technicians like 26 hours on the book for the engine out leak repair while in a real-world scenario, no technician in the world could do it in that amount of time, thus getting shafted on jobs like this. They would complain about unfair labor to the point that they wouldn't do it so Porsche issued this as an acceptable fix to address that concern.

 

Interesting in a couple of ways:

Even if a screw is "loose or broken" there might not be an oil leak, in which case they recommend no repair action.

Jules

 

At my dealer I was told "Parts and labor is approx. $1250-1350+tax for the replacement bolts/hardware needed." I wonder if it would be worthwhile to do a preemptive repair just to get it out of the way?

 

This whole situation is starting to feel like the 996 IMS discussions from years ago. Just do the pre-emptive fix, in that case with an oil-fed bearing, and not even think about it again! If it's not done expect every knowledgeable buyer to ask about it and price accordingly for it expecting that - at some point - it will likely need to be done.

I don't know anyone at Porsche, but developing and rolling out this easier fix 8 years after the first Macans rolled off the line tells me that they expect a very high failure rate on these aluminum bolts over time. Some might even posit that they are already seeing growth in the failure rate curve as the first gen cars age and want to get in front of what could be a massive class-action lawsuit. This kind of press would not be ideal if you're trying a public spin-off of Porsche in the next year or two IMHO.

 

Am I the only one concerned about this alleged bolt replacement fix on a vehicle under warranty by Porsche? Once a gasket starts to leak, replacing the offending bolts is a temporary fix IMHO. While this might be acceptable in a non-warranty vehicle, if my vehicle is under warranty I would want the gasket (and bolts) completely replaced. My 2 cents.

 

I would think that all the bolts should be replaced, not just two. And, a top-notch job would remove the cover and replace the gasket too. But I can see the appeal of just trying to replace a few of the easier to access bolts to see if that solves the problem, rather than pulling the whole bumper and radiator off, to do the entire thing. I still can't fathom why Porsche initially specified that this was an engine-out procedure, rather than just pulling the front off.

One caution on the use of steel replacement bolts (rather than the original or updated? aluminum ones), is that the steel bolt will likely eventually corrode/seize in the aluminum mating threads, making them difficult to later remove. This galvanic-corrosion/dissimilar-metals issue is why Porsche used aluminum bolts. The best solution would to be to use increased strength aluminum bolts.

 

One caution on the use of steel replacement bolts (rather than the original or updated? aluminum ones),

The replacement screws part no. N 910-971-01 are steel, very ordinary steel I believe. Stainless would be a better choice. The recommended torque for the aluminium alloy screws is well within the limits of a stainless steel screw of the same diameter.

As I understand it, removing the front of the car only allows replacement of some but not all of the screws. To replace all the screws [and gasket] the engine has to come out.

Jules

 

You can replace all the bolts with the engine in-place, when the front bumper/radiator is removed, as demonstrated by a forum member (here or Rennlist) who did it themself.
Stainless bolts will still have a dissimilar metal corrosion issue with the aluminum block and head.

 

Stainless bolts will still have a dissimilar metal corrosion issue with the aluminum block and head.

Ok, but as I said above the recommended replacement screws are steel, not alloy and the very fact that Porsche are recommending steel replacements amounts to admitting the aluminium alloy ones are no good. Stainless will be fine, particularly if you use one of the anti-seize thread sealants designed specifically for just this situation.

Take your pick ... risk another round with aluminium alloy screws or go for steel of one sort or another. There are plenty of examples of steel being used with alloy blocks/heads.

Jules

 

So I was scheduled for the two-bolt fix this morning. Sparing the longer story, the bolts are tied up in US customs (really, two steel bolts?) along with a mess of other parts in a shipping container. So, no repair done.

However, the SA did confirm it would be ~$110 after tax ($107 pre-tax) here in NJ. More to come when the bolts get released and I can get back to the dealership for the repair. Stay tuned...

 

When you get the repair could you do us all a favor and ask them what torque number they used? Also ask them for the part numbers. Then the rest of us can lean in there and do it by ourselves as preventative.

 

Should this just be done for all pre-2019 Macans as a preventative measure?

 

I would do it.

 

Currently looking for a GTS or Turbo and will make sure this gets done immediately upon purchase, thanks