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Kindly share the details of how the other "all manufacturer's" PTV systems work. If they do not use the brakes, how do they accomplish
power (read: torque) reduction to tires that are losing traction? I am most intrigued...


As advertisements for the National Enquirer used to state, "Inquiring minds want to know!!!"


;)
Thanks for your question, glad to provide what I have found on this technology:


Consider the paragraph on brake-based systems. This is what Porsche sells us for a fortune:

Brake-based torque vectoring
Brake-based torque vectoring is a less sophisticated system that attempts to replicate the capabilities of the mechanical system above through simpler, cheaper means. Rather than torque being shuffled through a differential, this system momentarily applies the brake to one of the wheels (e.g. the inside wheel in a turn).
 
Thanks for your question, glad to provide what I have found on this technology:


Consider the paragraph on brake-based systems. This is what Porsche sells us for a fortune:

Brake-based torque vectoring
Brake-based torque vectoring is a less sophisticated system that attempts to replicate the capabilities of the mechanical system above through simpler, cheaper means. Rather than torque being shuffled through a differential, this system momentarily applies the brake to one of the wheels (e.g. the inside wheel in a turn).
Limited slip differential used to be a big deal in Porsche land . As recent as 2007 the only cars that had the traditional LSD were Gt cars and on a Turbo it was an option for 1K . That changed in I believe 2010 . I am surprised they are putting anything on a Macan . I don't know enough about the technicals to say whether a traditional axle lock works better or worse than a computerized brake assist but I do agree it can wear brakes more rapidly . Since I was one of the first to get a Macan (ordered pre launch ) even my service advisor was surprised at the time when my rear brakes wore before the fronts . It is true that my current Macan Turbo which I bought off the lot lacks the PTV but I dont think it would support having almost double the mileage on original brakes with the same driver (wife) .A more direct comparison would come after she takes delivery of the new GTS which will have PTV.
 
It would appear that Porsche uses both the differential solution and braking in its PTV+ implementation!

A thorough read of the following is recommended:



This link has been provided in the forum a few times before.


It seems likely the braking action has been added to improve the performance of the limited slip/torque vectoring action, enhancing
the action of the differential clutch plate(s) lockup and electronically controlling said lockup so that it is no longer purely mechanically based - as with
earlier systems.

NOTE: that PTV is not the same as PTV+. Only PTV+ is available on the Macan models.


BMW M-cars used to use limited slip differentials. Heck, I owned a '68 Chevelle that had a limited slip differential!
 
It would appear that Porsche uses both the differential solution and braking in its PTV+ implementation!

A thorough read of the following is recommended:



This link has been provided in the forum a few times before.


It seems likely the braking action has been added to improve the performance of the limited slip/torque vectoring action, enhancing
the action of the differential clutch plate(s) lockup and electronically controlling said lockup so that it is no longer purely mechanically based - as with
earlier systems.

NOTE: that PTV is not the same as PTV+. Only PTV+ is available on the Macan models.


BMW M-cars used to use limited slip differentials. Heck, I owned a '68 Chevelle that had a limited slip differential!
The article was from 2013 . Its 10 years later and I wonder what upgrades were made to it . I sure know things like PDK have changed over time despite being the same basic mechanism . The Macan is not cited in the article as it had not been launched until a year later .
 
My previous 2020 Macan Turbo PSCB rotors had a mirror like surface. I think is what PSCB rotors are supposed to look like. I now have a 2022 GTS with PSCB but the rotors have black patches on them. I’m not sure corroded is the best description but they are far from a mirror finish (see pic). They havent seen any different use than the previous ones. (no excessive braking, track time or differences in cleaning practices).

I just had my 15000km service and the service department didn’t know what to say other than “maybe there will be a technical bulletin in the future”. They weren’t sure if there’s been any changes to the factory rotors since 2020 that would explain the difference.

They work fine but I’m curious if others with 2022 models are seeing the same thing? Something seems odd.

Image
 
I'm not a mechanic, but to my (unfamiliar with PSCBs) eye, I'd have said those marks are an indication the rotors aren't perfectly flat.
I've seen similar looking burnishing marks on PD pumps when the hardened chrome rotor and its mating surface aren't perfectly mated.
Curious to hear what others think, I could be completely wrong.
 
Good point.

The strange thing is a rotor that isn’t flat should create a pulsation in the brakes which I don’t have.
Not necessarily. Pulsation typically means the rotor isn't true, i.e. it has some level of undulations or warping as some people call it. Like a Pringle potato chip. A rotor a can be perfectly true but not flat, think of drilled rotors for instance. They don't generate pulsations because what the pad sees is an average surface which is perfectly true, despite local non-flat zones (the drilled holes).
I'm interpreting the marks on your rotors as localized non-flat zones on an otherwise true rotor.
I could be applying my engineering knowledge incorrectly, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.
Maybe going to a brake specialist for a second opinion might shed some light. A seasoned brake technician should be able to look at that surface and immediately know the cause, I would hope, without the need for any investigation.
 
My previous 2020 Macan Turbo PSCB rotors had a mirror like surface. I think is what PSCB rotors are supposed to look like. I now have a 2022 GTS with PSCB but the rotors have black patches on them. I’m not sure corroded is the best description but they are far from a mirror finish (see pic). They havent seen any different use than the previous ones. (no excessive braking, track time or differences in cleaning practices).

I just had my 15000km service and the service department didn’t know what to say other than “maybe there will be a technical bulletin in the future”. They weren’t sure if there’s been any changes to the factory rotors since 2020 that would explain the difference.

They work fine but I’m curious if others with 2022 models are seeing the same thing? Something seems odd.

View attachment 266347
I have the same "blemishes" on mine (maybe a little less than yours) but after 6K miles (but I recall noticing them day 1 when I picked up). I didn't care too much un till today when I saw a Cayenne parked next to me (older gen) with PSCB - white brakes, but the mirror finish was perfect. I am due for 1 yr service in a month. I will be brining this up. Not keen on replacing these anytime soon...
 
I have the same "blemishes" on mine (maybe a little less than yours) but after 6K miles (but I recall noticing them day 1 when I picked up). I didn't care too much un till today when I saw a Cayenne parked next to me (older gen) with PSCB - white brakes, but the mirror finish was perfect. I am due for 1 yr service in a month. I will be brining this up. Not keen on replacing these anytime soon...
Please let me know what you find out. Mine still look the same as in the photo and the passenger side rear has started to occasionally squeal st low speeds. I’m now at 20000km And also plan to bring it up at my next service.
 
Please let me know what you find out. Mine still look the same as in the photo and the passenger side rear has started to occasionally squeal st low speeds. I’m now at 20000km And also plan to bring it up at my next service.
Mine do not squeal and the brake feel is great. It is cosmetic issue for me (and only if considered abnormal by Porsche) - i'd like to get it on record either way.

Note: I recommend hard braking to get rid of the squeal. (That has been a thing with every high performance car I have ever owned).
 
Coming from an AMG C63S to a 23 Macan GTS, the amount of brake dust generated on the Macan is basically non-existent. Had silver wheels on the AMG, drive a few hundred miles and they looked horrible. The Porsche surface coated brakes with Black Spyder wheels, I cannot even tell the wheels get dirty from brake dust at all. PSCB is truly a remarkable product for keeping brake dust in check. Very impressed
 
owns 2023 Porsche Macan GTS
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Light rust won't be a big deal, never worried me but dealer recommneded to get it done after driving around 50,000miles. Not sure for me after doing my research but never too bad to get it done after buying used Porsche.
It's relatively easy to measure rotor wear. You can get a rough idea visually by checking the lip on the outer edge of the rotor, or take to it with a measuring tool for more accuracy. Wear varies considerably according to style of driving so it's better to go with a measurement than a set period of time or distance.
 
It's relatively easy to measure rotor wear. You can get a rough idea visually by checking the lip on the outer edge of the rotor, or take to it with a measuring tool for more accuracy. Wear varies considerably according to style of driving so it's better to go with a measurement than a set period of time or distance.
While this may be true of conventional rotors, the PSCBs are incredibly hard because of that tungsten carbide coating which is only a 100 microns thick to start with. It is therefore impossible to ascertain its remaining thickness by just looking at the surface. A high accuracy implement must be used, such as a micrometer.
 
Are you sure...this was an Australian delivered car. If the calipers were repainted, it was a perfect job ! As it was a fill in till my new one arrived, I did not bother to chase up the original build sheet, but white calipers on standard rotors and pads is a poor choice of colour...they were a beast to keep clean. PSCB as an option is over $5k AUD on the present model, so I did not tick the box on the new car.
I'm 99.99% positive. This option was not region specific. PSCBs were introduced on the Cayenne and possibly the Panamera as well in 2018. I have a 2018 GTS that I ordered to spec so I was very familiar with the options back then and PSCBs were not available on the Macan. Even PCCBs were only available on the GTS and Turbo.

What color was this vehicle? Most likely the previous owner just felt that the white matched the car better than the otherwise gray calipers that it would have came with.
 
While this may be true of conventional rotors, the PSCBs are incredibly hard because of that tungsten carbide coating which is only a 100 microns thick to start with. It is therefore impossible to ascertain its remaining thickness by just looking at the surface. A high accuracy implement must be used, such as a micrometer.
Yes, I get that but my impression was that porschelover was talking about non PSCB rotors when he mentioned rotors that rust. PSCB rotors don't rust.

I've always wondered what happens when the tungsten layer wears off a PSCB rotor. Is it uniform? Does it start to flake? What happens to braking performance?

As for the colour of Aus. Macan Ss calipers, mine were silver/white, the same as Big Benny's and they most certainly hadn't been re-painted. It did fool me for a short time into thinking they might be PSCB rotors but it didn't take much to figure out that they weren't.

Jules
 
I'm 99.99% positive. This option was not region specific. PSCBs were introduced on the Cayenne and possibly the Panamera as well in 2018. I have a 2018 GTS that I ordered to spec so I was very familiar with the options back then and PSCBs were not available on the Macan. Even PCCBs were only available on the GTS and Turbo.

What color was this vehicle? Most likely the previous owner just felt that the white matched the car better than the otherwise gray calipers that it would have came with.
Volcano Grey....and I had the wheels off to clean them and if the calipers had been repainted, it was a perfect job. Could you option white calipers back then ?
 
Volcano Grey....and I had the wheels off to clean them and if the calipers had been repainted, it was a perfect job. Could you option white calipers back then ?
No, there is no way to option just white calipers then or now. Porsche made one known exception for one particularly ultra wealth Porsche collector who has nearly every top performance Porsche sports car in all white. Repainting calipers is a relatively very simple thing to do correctly.
 
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