[rgranger]

Thanks for the video link.
The prices quoted for replacement / repair are USD$, and down here in AUD$ the prices are usually much higher. At least 50% higher!
The cost of the option to add for my S build would be AUD$7,100. However that pales into insignificance when you look at the maintenance costs!
My order was placed at the start of April, with expected delivery in July, 2023, so the build has not yet commenced. I was contemplating adding to my configuration, however, ongoing costs far exceeded my expectation!
That settles it! Good grief! I didn't imagine the maintenance costs would be so astronomical.

I was an instructor for out local PCA, so it heard a few of the surprises… that was back in 2010. Bet the cost has gone up these days

 

[Bill V]

Can anyone please provide feedback regarding the option of installing the Porsche Surface Coated Brake (PSCB) system on the Macan S.
Is it worth the extra money? Is there enhanced braking capability? Is there a significant reduction in brake dust and brake pad deterioration?
I am considering adding it to my ordered configuration in the event that the braking improvements are evident.
I've read the hype, but interested to know the reality.

My 2020 Macan came with PSCB standard. They were terrible. When I brought it in for its one year service, the dealer refused to change the pads as called for in a Porsche Technical Service Bulletin. I soon got rid of the car for a CPO 2017 911. Its brakes are vastly superior.

 

[Papeto]

Thanks for the video link.
The prices quoted for replacement / repair are USD$, and down here in AUD$ the prices are usually much higher. At least 50% higher!
The cost of the option to add for my S build would be AUD$7,100. However that pales into insignificance when you look at the maintenance costs!
My order was placed at the start of April, with expected delivery in July, 2023, so the build has not yet commenced. I was contemplating adding to my configuration, however, ongoing costs far exceeded my expectation!
That settles it! Good grief! I didn't imagine the maintenance costs would be so astronomical.

The standard S brakes are quite good. Had a few spirited runs and no fade. Also they aren’t that hard to clean.

 

[smokey3675]

The standard S brakes are quite good. Had a few spirited runs and no fade. Also they aren’t that hard to clean.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate your input.
I hadn't imagined the maintenance costs would be so extreme, so I have shelved the idea of ceramic coated brakes!

 

[yrralis1]

Since I have owned 5 of these Macan's I wanted to share a comparison of the steel brakes Vs the PSCB . The first two Macans were Turbo with PTV and steel . The third was a GTS , no PTV, and steel . The 4th was GTS with PTV and steel. The current is Turbo with no PTV and PSCB . All. cars are driven city and highway 50/50 although the highway can be stop and go I rush hour. . Wife is primary driver of all Macans .

1) The most wear and tear - steel and PTV had the most wear and highest cost . It shocked me (and the service advisor) that the rear brakes wore before the front in those first two cars . Keep in mind my first car was one of the earliest Macans so this was new to service too. The rear pads went at nearly 15K miles . At 25K the fronts we're gone. Summer tires also lasted 15K . Steel brake maintenance was not cheap at the dealership .

2) Steel and no PTV was cheaper and gave longer brake life in city traffic . The third car was a minimal spec GTS that some might recall I picked off the lot when my second car was crashed into. It not only had no PTV . It also lacked sport chrono so there was less pedal stomping temptation . Of course I missed the gear but my wallet thanked me .

3) PSCB and no PTV have already earned their premium . I am at 24K miles on original brakes and still going . The tires are still wearing at identical pace to the previous cars but not the brakes . I do feel a lot of people don't factor in that cost when building a current S that costs almost as much as a GTS where the PSCB are standard . Since I have not replaced anything yet I never asked the cost but did ask on the PCCB and was told that routine maintenance is cheaper . The huge expense with PCCB is a stone in the wheel well causing a 10K damage . Although rare it can happen . PCCB are no longer available on Macan but they were and my guess is that many owners are still on originals . I have yet to hear of large PSCB expenses .

Conclusion -- Both the steel and the PSCB are great brakes . One of the earlier complaints of PSCB was that they are "grabby" but it is my understanding that the new car is smoother . I also feel that both PSCB and PCCB are not the same brakes as steel and anyone buying them ought to be ready to adjust to a brake pedal feel . PSCB last LONGER! There is just no debate on its longevity . That 3500 premium to buy then has already paid itself at 24K miles and delivered improved performance . If I really traded my car today I would hand over a key with a zero cost brake maintenance .

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

$3500 premium for PSCB?!? YIKES!!!

My 2015 Macan Turbo (with PTV+), bought with just under 14K miles, has fewer than 50K miles on it. I changed the rear pads at ~35K, disks were fine. I have
front pads I bought a couple of years ago waiting for the signal from the Macan and the front disks are also showing little signs of wear - just barely a lip at the edge.

I'm doing the brake servicing on it myself.


I am really puzzled as to how someone managed to wear out rear pads at 15K miles (driving with the parking brake engaged?!?) - and front pads at only 25K miles.
That would seem to indicate a lot of hard braking - but for mostly city driving?


As they say, YMMV...

 

[rasetsu]

My 2018 GTS has steel and PTV+. I changed the pads out at 20K miles not because I needed to but because I wanted a lower dusting ceramic based pad. There was PLENTY of meat left on the stock pads, so much so that the shop asked me if I for sure didn't want them back. And my rotors were essentially new. Powerstop pads, installation, and brake fluid flush was all under $1000.

Brakes are definitely a YMMV thing.

 

[yrralis1]

My 2018 GTS has steel and PTV+. I changed the pads out at 20K miles not because I needed to but because I wanted a lower dusting ceramic based pad. There was PLENTY of meat left on the stock pads, so much so that the shop asked me if I for sure didn't want them back. And my rotors were essentially new. Powerstop pads, installation, and brake fluid flush was all under $1000.

Brakes are definitely a YMMV thing.

Agree on the mileage variance. I am not the driver of the car. But the same driver applied to all of the cars. Her route to work before she went remote was in congested city traffic and rush-hour highway. Our leisure drives however were more open Road but they were less than the grueling city drives.

In contrast all of my personal cars which are different models are all on original brakes. I have never replace the brakes on any of my cars. 30,000 miles on a Boxster in that car still had originals. 50,000 miles on my previous 911 and that was originals. It’s not as if I didn’t drive them. They are different cars though.

 

[yrralis1]

$3500 premium for PSCB?!? YIKES!!!

My 2015 Macan Turbo (with PTV+), bought with just under 14K miles, has fewer than 50K miles on it. I changed the rear pads at ~35K, disks were fine. I have
front pads I bought a couple of years ago waiting for the signal from the Macan and the front disks are also showing little signs of wear - just barely a lip at the edge.

I'm doing the brake servicing on it myself.


I am really puzzled as to how someone managed to wear out rear pads at 15K miles (driving with the parking brake engaged?!?) - and front pads at only 25K miles.
That would seem to indicate a lot of hard braking - but for mostly city driving?


As they say, YMMV...

I would view my wife is the average person who buys a car commutes to work and takes the car to the dealership. The PSCB have outlasted the other brakes with an identical driver. They have performed better slightly and have no brake dust.

 

[yrralis1]

My 2018 GTS has steel and PTV+. I changed the pads out at 20K miles not because I needed to but because I wanted a lower dusting ceramic based pad. There was PLENTY of meat left on the stock pads, so much so that the shop asked me if I for sure didn't want them back. And my rotors were essentially new. Powerstop pads, installation, and brake fluid flush was all under $1000.

Brakes are definitely a YMMV thing.

The $3500 cost is a big deal. They are standard on the GTS. That means if someone builds an S and adds those brakes, suspension, and 18 way seats it will cost as much as a GTS. It will have less power, a different ride height, as well as a different throttle map. That has been my point all along about the value of the GTS. The fact did the brakes offer an added perk after the fact only makes it even that much more attractive.

 

[rasetsu]

The $3500 cost is a big deal. They are standard on the GTS. That means if someone builds an S and adds those brakes, suspension, and 18 way seats it will cost as much as a GTS. It will have less power, a different ride height, as well as a different throttle map. That has been my point all along about the value of the GTS. The fact did the brakes offer an added perk after the fact only makes it even that much more attractive.

Did you quote me on accident on this reply? I don't have a problem with PSCBs costing $3500 especially if one plans to keep their car 75K miles or more like I likely will. If PSCBs last longer than 3 regular brake jobs along with the bonus of no dust, I'd consider that worth it. They are definitely a nice in-between steels and PCCBs. If PSCBs where available in 2018, I probably would have ticked the box even if they weren't standard.

 

[yrralis1]

Did you quote me on accident on this reply? I don't have a problem with PSCBs costing $3500 especially if one plans to keep their car 75K miles or more like I likely will. If PSCBs last longer than 3 regular brake jobs along with the bonus of no dust, I'd consider that worth it. They are definitely a nice in-between steels and PCCBs. If PSCBs where available in 2018, I probably would have ticked the box even if they weren't standard.

It was by accident. Apologies. I meant to quote the moderator on his reference to the expense of $3500 to purchase them. I simply quoted the wrong post.

 

[macanadian]

This post on another thread quotes a staggering cost for PSCB maintenance, $11k in parts alone vs $2300 for steel, and supposedly only offer 30% more life. Note he's talking about cayenne brakes, not macan.

Porsche Surface Coated Brake (PSCB)

Debating this - sounds intriguing. But in reality durability is still a bit of an unknown. Would appreciate currents thoughts and any direct insight. But build locks in a few days. TIA

www.macanforum.com

 

[yrralis1]

This post on another thread quotes a staggering cost for PSCB maintenance, $11k in parts alone vs $2300 for steel, and supposedly only offer 30% more life. Note he's talking about cayenne brakes, not macan.

Porsche Surface Coated Brake (PSCB)

Debating this - sounds intriguing. But in reality durability is still a bit of an unknown. Would appreciate currents thoughts and any direct insight. But build locks in a few days. TIA

www.macanforum.com

I saw those ridiculous posts. It’s looking up every single part of the brake system rather than repairing the brake system.
The Macan Turbo has had them since 2020. Likewise it’s been an option on the S and I believe it’s even an option on the Macan T . How many $11,000 repairs have you seen occur on this forum? Zero! If there was such a repair and expense it would appear here in mass numbers.

 

[yrralis1]

I want to add to the above regarding the $11,000 posts. If one were to take any item on the car and order it individually from Suncoast it’s going to cost much more than ordering it on the car. For instance sport bucket seats would be very expensive. So would OEM wheels. They are more expensive then if you order the car with them . If one were to take the entire break system it would be very expensive. After all it cost $3500 just to add them to Macan S. So it will be expected did a complete replacement would be ex more than that. In 2008 I did a steel brake upgrade to my 911 and it cost $9000 then. It was a complete break system plus labor which was at that time $100 an hour instead of 260 which is today.

I don’t think you can evaluate the cost of a catastrophic tragedy with the car as a real concern with any item. Of course it can happen. Depending upon how it happens some auto insurance might even cover it. It’s extreme.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

I saw those ridiculous posts. It’s looking up every single part of the brake system rather than repairing the brake system.
The Macan Turbo has had them since 2020. Likewise it’s been an option on the S and I believe it’s even an option on the Macan T . How many $11,000 repairs have you seen occur on this forum? Zero! If there was such a repair and expense it would appear here in mass numbers.

I just finished watching the video referenced. The cost of the brake parts is consistent with that borne by several forum members
who have taken their Macans to the dealer for brake service operations. Those examples have included pad and rotor replacement,
and, of course, sensors and anti-rattle clips and bolts as Porsche dealer service departments typically specify.

There seems to be nothing particularly "ridiculous" in that part of the discussion. The parts noted are normal replacement items.

As for posts including a complaint about PSCB disk replacement cost, their absence should not be taken as a guarantee that such
replacements have not occurred. If the PSCB brakes have been available of Macan Turbo models since 2020, it is likely those Macans
so equipped have not yet reached the service life limit for the PSCB disks. Another item to consider is the fact that very few Turbo models
in the Macan line have been sold in each year of its production. Look at the numbers - most people opted for the S when the Macan first
became available in the US and since that time the Base model has been the reigning sales champion.


The video does demonstrate that there is a claimed 30% improvement in disk service life for the PSCB disks over iron disks.

What remains impressive is the parts cost significantly exceeds the 30% longer service life for said part. $2300 vs. $11000 is quite a jump
by anyone's book. A 30% premium of $2300 is close to $3000 according to my calculator...

 

[yrralis1]

This post on another thread quotes a staggering cost for PSCB maintenance, $11k in parts alone vs $2300 for steel, and supposedly only offer 30% more life. Note he's talking about cayenne brakes, not macan.

Porsche Surface Coated Brake (PSCB)

Debating this - sounds intriguing. But in reality durability is still a bit of an unknown. Would appreciate currents thoughts and any direct insight. But build locks in a few days. TIA

www.macanforum.com

I just finished watching the video referenced. The cost of the brake parts is consistent with that borne by several forum members
who have taken their Macans to the dealer for brake service operations. Those examples have included pad and rotor replacement,
and, of course, sensors and anti-rattle clips and bolts as Porsche dealer service departments typically specify.

There seems to be nothing particularly "ridiculous" in that part of the discussion. The parts noted are normal replacement items.

As for posts including a complaint about PSCB disk replacement cost, their absence should not be taken as a guarantee that such
replacements have not occurred. If the PSCB brakes have been available of Macan Turbo models since 2020, it is likely those Macans
so equipped have not yet reached the service life limit for the PSCB disks. Another item to consider is the fact that very few Turbo models
in the Macan line have been sold in each year of its production. Look at the numbers - most people opted for the S when the Macan first
became available in the US and since that time the Base model has been the reigning sales champion.


The video does demonstrate that there is a claimed 30% improvement in disk service life for the PSCB disks over iron disks.

What remains impressive is the parts cost significantly exceeds the 30% longer service life for said part. $2300 vs. $11000 is quite a jump
by anyone's book. A 30% premium of $2300 is close to $3000 according to my calculator...

The person who made the video works for Brembo and made a second video which I actually posted as a separate thread once upon a time about PCCB. I read the follow up posts on that thread and it seemed like they were a lot of questions and of course the There is going to be some chatter. No one has entered this thread to say they got a huge bill. One person bailed out of the car. The rest simply had questions and concerns. That would be expected.I have not gotten a huge bill. When I do I will be gladly post it. If anyone reading this thread wishes to post their experience of receiving a tremendous bill with the PSCB breaks please do so I welcome 24,000 miles and still counting. I will post a follow up to this thread of my total cost upon trading in December to own these brakes . I will also post the mileage to my car. Every current GTS owner has it. Thus far none have faced a replacement cost.

 

[macanadian]

Reading between the lines, it seems like every naysayer is quoting X cost vs X life for the whole brake system (pads and rotors, some even include calipers), yet every reference to this "30% longer life" is talking about pad life. I haven't yet seen an expected rotor life, let alone caliper life.

(Edit: 30% increase is rotor life not pad)

In any case, as the adoption rate is drastically increasing because they come with the new GTS, this technology is moving from innovation / early adoption phase and eventually to the majority adoption phases. Any real world service costs will come down, from innovator pricing (comparatively high prices) to majority pricing (comparatively low prices).

 

[Joyride22]

Since I have owned 5 of these Macan's I wanted to share a comparison of the steel brakes Vs the PSCB . The first two Macans were Turbo with PTV and steel . The third was a GTS , no PTV, and steel . The 4th was GTS with PTV and steel. The current is Turbo with no PTV and PSCB . All. cars are driven city and highway 50/50 although the highway can be stop and go I rush hour. . Wife is primary driver of all Macans .

1) The most wear and tear - steel and PTV had the most wear and highest cost . It shocked me (and the service advisor) that the rear brakes wore before the front in those first two cars . Keep in mind my first car was one of the earliest Macans so this was new to service too. The rear pads went at nearly 15K miles . At 25K the fronts we're gone. Summer tires also lasted 15K . Steel brake maintenance was not cheap at the dealership .

2) Steel and no PTV was cheaper and gave longer brake life in city traffic . The third car was a minimal spec GTS that some might recall I picked off the lot when my second car was crashed into. It not only had no PTV . It also lacked sport chrono so there was less pedal stomping temptation . Of course I missed the gear but my wallet thanked me .

3) PSCB and no PTV have already earned their premium . I am at 24K miles on original brakes and still going . The tires are still wearing at identical pace to the previous cars but not the brakes . I do feel a lot of people don't factor in that cost when building a current S that costs almost as much as a GTS where the PSCB are standard . Since I have not replaced anything yet I never asked the cost but did ask on the PCCB and was told that routine maintenance is cheaper . The huge expense with PCCB is a stone in the wheel well causing a 10K damage . Although rare it can happen . PCCB are no longer available on Macan but they were and my guess is that many owners are still on originals . I have yet to hear of large PSCB expenses .

Conclusion -- Both the steel and the PSCB are great brakes . One of the earlier complaints of PSCB was that they are "grabby" but it is my understanding that the new car is smoother . I also feel that both PSCB and PCCB are not the same brakes as steel and anyone buying them ought to be ready to adjust to a brake pedal feel . PSCB last LONGER! There is just no debate on its longevity . That 3500 premium to buy then has already paid itself at 24K miles and delivered improved performance . If I really traded my car today I would hand over a key with a zero cost brake maintenance .

Thanks for sharing this helpful analysis. Very reassuring that these doomsday PSCB maintenance stories can be ignored. What still is a mystery to me is this penny-store PTV+ system Porsche is selling for big money. All manufacturers have LSD systems that work great. And Macans get this outdated, brake-based PTV that cost a lot and wears the brakes (double business). Should Porsche not keep up with Audi, BMW and all others?

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

Thanks for sharing this helpful analysis. Very reassuring that these doomsday PSCB maintenance stories can be ignored. What still is a mystery to me is this penny-store PTV+ system Porsche is selling for big money. All manufacturers have LSD systems that work great. And Macans get this outdated, brake-based PTV that cost a lot and wears the brakes (double business). Should Porsche not keep up with Audi, BMW and all others?

Kindly share the details of how the other "all manufacturer's" PTV systems work. If they do not use the brakes, how do they accomplish
power (read: torque) reduction to tires that are losing traction? I am most intrigued...


As advertisements for the National Enquirer used to state, "Inquiring minds want to know!!!"