It would appear that Porsche uses both the differential solution and braking in its PTV+ implementation!

A thorough read of the following is recommended:

You've got options, Part III: Porsche Torque Vectoring | Excellence | The Magazine About Porsche​

This link has been provided in the forum a few times before.


It seems likely the braking action has been added to improve the performance of the limited slip/torque vectoring action, enhancing
the action of the differential clutch plate(s) lockup and electronically controlling said lockup so that it is no longer purely mechanically based - as with
earlier systems.

NOTE: that PTV is not the same as PTV+. Only PTV+ is available on the Macan models.


BMW M-cars used to use limited slip differentials. Heck, I owned a '68 Chevelle that had a limited slip differential!

 

The article was from 2013 . Its 10 years later and I wonder what upgrades were made to it . I sure know things like PDK have changed over time despite being the same basic mechanism . The Macan is not cited in the article as it had not been launched until a year later .

 

My previous 2020 Macan Turbo PSCB rotors had a mirror like surface. I think is what PSCB rotors are supposed to look like. I now have a 2022 GTS with PSCB but the rotors have black patches on them. I’m not sure corroded is the best description but they are far from a mirror finish (see pic). They havent seen any different use than the previous ones. (no excessive braking, track time or differences in cleaning practices).

I just had my 15000km service and the service department didn’t know what to say other than “maybe there will be a technical bulletin in the future”. They weren’t sure if there’s been any changes to the factory rotors since 2020 that would explain the difference.

They work fine but I’m curious if others with 2022 models are seeing the same thing? Something seems odd.

 

My previous 2020 Macan Turbo PSCB rotors had a mirror like surface. I think is what PSCB rotors are supposed to look like. I now have a 2022 GTS with PSCB but the rotors have black patches on them. I’m not sure corroded is the best description but they are far from a mirror finish (see pic). They havent seen any different use than the previous ones. (no excessive braking, track time or differences in cleaning practices).

I just had my 15000km service and the service department didn’t know what to say other than “maybe there will be a technical bulletin in the future”. They weren’t sure if there’s been any changes to the factory rotors since 2020 that would explain the difference.

They work fine but I’m curious if others with 2022 models are seeing the same thing? Something seems odd.

View attachment 266347

I have the same "blemishes" on mine (maybe a little less than yours) but after 6K miles (but I recall noticing them day 1 when I picked up). I didn't care too much un till today when I saw a Cayenne parked next to me (older gen) with PSCB - white brakes, but the mirror finish was perfect. I am due for 1 yr service in a month. I will be brining this up. Not keen on replacing these anytime soon...

 

I'm not a mechanic, but to my (unfamiliar with PSCBs) eye, I'd have said those marks are an indication the rotors aren't perfectly flat.
I've seen similar looking burnishing marks on PD pumps when the hardened chrome rotor and its mating surface aren't perfectly mated.
Curious to hear what others think, I could be completely wrong.

 

I'm not a mechanic, but to my (unfamiliar with PSCBs) eye, I'd have said those marks are an indication the rotors aren't perfectly flat.

Good point.

The strange thing is a rotor that isn’t flat should create a pulsation in the brakes which I don’t have.

 

The so-called "warping" has been repeatedly discussed in various fora. It's brake pad deposits on the rotor.

Merging this with the PSCB thread...

 

Coming from an AMG C63S to a 23 Macan GTS, the amount of brake dust generated on the Macan is basically non-existent. Had silver wheels on the AMG, drive a few hundred miles and they looked horrible. The Porsche surface coated brakes with Black Spyder wheels, I cannot even tell the wheels get dirty from brake dust at all. PSCB is truly a remarkable product for keeping brake dust in check. Very impressed

 

Light rust won't be a big deal, never worried me but dealer recommneded to get it done after driving around 50,000miles. Not sure for me after doing my research but never too bad to get it done after buying used Porsche.

 

Light rust won't be a big deal, never worried me but dealer recommneded to get it done after driving around 50,000miles. Not sure for me after doing my research but never too bad to get it done after buying used Porsche.

It's relatively easy to measure rotor wear. You can get a rough idea visually by checking the lip on the outer edge of the rotor, or take to it with a measuring tool for more accuracy. Wear varies considerably according to style of driving so it's better to go with a measurement than a set period of time or distance.

 

It's relatively easy to measure rotor wear. You can get a rough idea visually by checking the lip on the outer edge of the rotor, or take to it with a measuring tool for more accuracy. Wear varies considerably according to style of driving so it's better to go with a measurement than a set period of time or distance.

While this may be true of conventional rotors, the PSCBs are incredibly hard because of that tungsten carbide coating which is only a 100 microns thick to start with. It is therefore impossible to ascertain its remaining thickness by just looking at the surface. A high accuracy implement must be used, such as a micrometer.

 

While this may be true of conventional rotors, the PSCBs are incredibly hard because of that tungsten carbide coating which is only a 100 microns thick to start with. It is therefore impossible to ascertain its remaining thickness by just looking at the surface. A high accuracy implement must be used, such as a micrometer.

Yes, I get that but my impression was that porschelover was talking about non PSCB rotors when he mentioned rotors that rust. PSCB rotors don't rust.

I've always wondered what happens when the tungsten layer wears off a PSCB rotor. Is it uniform? Does it start to flake? What happens to braking performance?

As for the colour of Aus. Macan Ss calipers, mine were silver/white, the same as Big Benny's and they most certainly hadn't been re-painted. It did fool me for a short time into thinking they might be PSCB rotors but it didn't take much to figure out that they weren't.

Jules

 

Are you sure...this was an Australian delivered car. If the calipers were repainted, it was a perfect job ! As it was a fill in till my new one arrived, I did not bother to chase up the original build sheet, but white calipers on standard rotors and pads is a poor choice of colour...they were a beast to keep clean. PSCB as an option is over $5k AUD on the present model, so I did not tick the box on the new car.

I'm 99.99% positive. This option was not region specific. PSCBs were introduced on the Cayenne and possibly the Panamera as well in 2018. I have a 2018 GTS that I ordered to spec so I was very familiar with the options back then and PSCBs were not available on the Macan. Even PCCBs were only available on the GTS and Turbo.

What color was this vehicle? Most likely the previous owner just felt that the white matched the car better than the otherwise gray calipers that it would have came with.

 

I'm 99.99% positive. This option was not region specific. PSCBs were introduced on the Cayenne and possibly the Panamera as well in 2018. I have a 2018 GTS that I ordered to spec so I was very familiar with the options back then and PSCBs were not available on the Macan. Even PCCBs were only available on the GTS and Turbo.

What color was this vehicle? Most likely the previous owner just felt that the white matched the car better than the otherwise gray calipers that it would have came with.

Volcano Grey....and I had the wheels off to clean them and if the calipers had been repainted, it was a perfect job. Could you option white calipers back then ?

 

Volcano Grey....and I had the wheels off to clean them and if the calipers had been repainted, it was a perfect job. Could you option white calipers back then ?

No, there is no way to option just white calipers then or now. Porsche made one known exception for one particularly ultra wealth Porsche collector who has nearly every top performance Porsche sports car in all white. Repainting calipers is a relatively very simple thing to do correctly.

 

This thread has a lot of good information. I'm looking at purchasing a low mileage CPO Macan S with PSCB. If there is squeal from the PSCB, would servicing or replacing them be covered by the CPO warranty?

 

Does anyone know, if you have PSCBs (2021 Macan S), can you replace them with steel rotors and pads when they wear out? Or would you have to replace the calipers as well to do that?

 

I don't have them nor have I worked with them, but to my understanding, it's just the rotors and pads, and the caliper is painted a different color to indicate the expensive option, such as white I think to show that brake dust is eliminated. From what I've heard, they are very nice and I wouldn't mind having them, and they last a very long time. I would imagine maybe at least 40K miles.

 

thanks for the input, got me thinking... I started looking up part numbers/disc brake caliper descriptions. I can't find a complete list of base vs S,GTS / gray vs red vs white specifications. But for the most part it does look like the caliper would work if I were to replace the PSCBs with steel rotors and pads down the road.

I have a 2021 Macan S (w/ PSCBs) on hold and will likely be getting it within the week; it currently has ~31,000 miles on it. I'm willing to replace the pads on the PSCBs but will likely change to steel rotors if possible once the PSCB rotors are shot.

 

PCSBs seem to have their best times behind them. New Cayennes don’t offer this option anymore.

What’s a bit surprising is the lack of discussion about replacement options and cost on this forum. I have PCSBs on my GTS and will face this issue at some point. Not much insights shared here about what to expect… maybe it’s less complicated than we think?

 

What’s a bit surprising is the lack of discussion about replacement options and cost on this forum. I have PCSBs on my GTS and will face this issue at some point. Not much insights shared here about what to expect… maybe it’s less complicated than we think?

Or we're all in the same boat and very few of us have reached the replacement window yet. Once people do, en-masse, we'll see a lot more discussion on here I suspect, especially from folks who buy a second-hand GTS at a relatively low price and get to experience first-hand the true cost to own one of these cars.

 

During a routine inspection at 23,000 km on my Macan GTS (model year 2023), it was discovered that the tungsten carbide coating was peeling off and needed to be replaced. The "defective" brake discs were given to me and have the following identification:
BDE PDF033 95B.6 15.302. AF 01.02.23 0973 FISCHER V7FKB4 - value 10 micrometers
BDE PDF033 95B.6 15.301. AF 31.01.23 1755 FISCHER V7FKB4 - value 10 micrometers
Porsche's description states: "It (the PSCB brake disc) is characterized by significantly reduced brake dust development, increased corrosion resistance, and an approximately 30% longer service life compared to conventional gray cast iron brake discs." It goes on to say: "The PSCB technology is based on a gray cast iron brake disc coated with a tungsten carbide layer approximately 100 micrometers thick."
Could it be that Porsche is cutting down on the coating thickness for cost reasons? Are there general quality issues with the highly praised PSCB brake discs used in the Taycan, Cayenne, and Panamera?