The hits keep coming !
Awesome video, thanks for all you do !

 

Congratulations! Good job! Thanky you!

 

question is this automatically done if the pdk service was done at the dealership?

 

I had a PDK fluid change at dealer , year or so back …..will dig it up….see if adaptions were performed.

 

I hope you are all subscribed to the channel… it means a lot, especially from this community…. Thanks for your comments!!

 

In the Macan Service PDF I was unable to find PDK recalibration mentioned in the section covering the fluid service.

This post is the first I have heard of the procedure being required.

I doubt the indy where I had me Macan's PDK fluid and filters replaced a couple of years ago performed a recalibration. I find myself
wondering why it would be required. What necessitates the procedure? Why would changing the fluid require a re-calibration? It might make
some sense if the clutches, etc. were replaced - but for a fluid change?

When the engine oil & filter is changed are Porsche shops performing engine re-calibrations?


...and, it appears that a PIWIS is required to perform this PDK re-calibration operation!

I would imagine most DIYers in this forum do not own PIWIS devices...

 

Hi, I corrected the post on the requirements as stated earlier. It is actually a function of frequency and not a consequence of the action of fluid change.

I did a lot of research on this, and consulted with a reputable Indy shop, that confirmed they actually do the full calibration process after every clutch fluid change as a matter of practice, although they said only the clutch bite adaptation is required (that is how they described it).

As a mechanical engineer with a lot of experience in industrial maintenance, albeit not in automotive engineering, periodic calibration makes sense to me.

With use, sensors tend to drift and mechanical components tend to wear. This is a natural characteristic of systems, whether industrial or automotive. We perform periodic calibration in industrial systems (we call it proactive calibration) to ensure we correct systems drift and as a consequence, optimize signals and mechanical cohesion. Therefore, when I heard this from my friend at this shop, it made a lot of sense given my experience.

As I stated, I didn’t notice any marginal gains that I could feel (with my senses), but I have to assume that given the calibration performed, the PDK is operating at its optimal level. After a few drives, including a 600 mile drive to another state and back, the PDK feels great.

I’m not advocating that everyone should now run and do a calibration. All I’m saying is that I’ll be doing periodic calibration (together with fluid change) on mine because the whole process and outcome makes sense to me from engineering perspective. This is stated in the disclaimer of every video I make… it is me, performing DIY maintenance on my car.

To this point, even wheel alignment is a form of periodic calibration, returning wheels to specification tolerances… as they tend to drift over time with use.

As far as PIWIS vs other DIY tools, this process is available in DIY tools like Launch X431 and Autel. My friend told me that they had performed this calibration successfully with Autel, but could not say anything about Launch X431.

Given I have both Launch X431 and PIWIS, it was my choice to do this with PIWIS. I would not trust doing this with Launch, but that’s just me…

 

Required after a fluid change = maybe, but it can't hurt anything. Any benefit is perhaps from the clutch "bite point pressure" calibration, which could conceivably change as the clutches normally wear a bit.

 

Yes, you are correct from the standpoint of clutch bite point adaptation, which is what I was trying to say. And is not connected to the fluid change, but rather with the frequency of the oil change. I modified my posting to reflect that, as when I read it again, it doesn’t read right.

 

I am curious if Launch has this capability. Will have to dig into that soon

 

Thanks Santirx. I follow your logic and agree it makes sense. Why wouldn’t we want to recalibrate the sensors to the new normal of whatever wear has occurred? I’ll be doing this with my Launch when the time comes.

 

Anyone want to know how our DCT works? How Does a Dual-Clutch Transmission Work?

 

This is gold. Hopefully it gets stickied.

 

Thanks for the honorable mention, I picked up on this watching Audi maintenance channels on YouTube since the Macan PDK and the 3.0 in my 21 S come out of the Audi section of the VW parts bin. One mentioned calibration of the clutches every 10k which made sense to me as the fluid will change with heat cycles and use.

 

Odd/disappointing/concerning that there is no such procedure for calibrating the clutch in the transfer case?

Or am I wrong about that?

 

After re-reading the this thread:

2016 Macan S transfer case DIY rebuild

2016 Porsche Macan S transfer case rebuild My wifes Macan developed a “shudder” between 1,100 to 1,300 rpm. This would happen pretty much all the time. Would be more predominant under load (going up hill or around a corner) but would also do it moving slowly in traffic. I could use the...

www.macanforum.com

I realized that the OP had to take his dealer for a transfer case calibration after his simple rebuild so there must be something pretty sophisticated in the way the clutches are controlled. I also realized that even though there are no sensors in the transfer clutch assembly there very well may be within the transfer case control module.

 

I have not seen a clutch adaptation procedure for the Transfer Case Clutch. I suspect they infer the actual applied clutch clamping pressure from feedback of the electrical current of the clutch actuation motor. Crude, but it might work well enough for the Transfer Case.

 

You are probably right. Motor current would be a reliable indicator and able to account for clutch wear. The exploded diagram of the transfer case shows it's a pretty simple assembly without any sensors:

I was trolling the interwebs trying to find an accurate description of the AWD system on the Macan and there doesn't seem to be much out there, and what there is, isn't very factual. It's easy to miss the fact that power is transferred from the shaft #22 to the clutch basket #25 and sent to the front wheel driveshaft via a pair of gears in the tail end of the transmission.

I read an article in "911 &Porsche" magazine that was flat out wrong in stating the Macan is a FWD predominant system...WRONG!!!

 

Well, from a discussion of the design origins of the Audi DL501 "PDK", it was conceived basically as a front-wheel-drive transaxle (like all Audi transaxles for longitudinal engine applications), with the option of economically adding rear wheel drive capability, by bolting on a Quattro (Torsen) or Magna (variable wet-clutch) Transfer Case to the tail-end of the transmission housing. The design compromise of this is concept is that the engine is mounted much further forward, well in front of the front-wheel axle centerline, as compared to a transmission which does not provide for an integrated front-wheel-drive only configuration. Putting 100% of the engines weight in front of the front axle line enhances straight-line directional stability (an Audi hallmark), but reduces the ultimate handling potential of the chassis by promoting an understeer dominated dynamic. The 911 made the opposite compromise, hanging 100% of the engine weight behind the rear axle centerline.

With this DL501 transmission, the amount of front to rear wheel torque bias can be set to whatever the engineers want, either by the fixed torque split of a Torsen, or a variable torque split provided by the adjustable slip of the wet clutch of the Magna Transfer Case.

 

With this DL501 transmission, the amount of front to rear wheel torque bias can be set to whatever the engineers want, either by the fixed torque split of a Torsen, or a variable torque split provided by the adjustable slip of the wet clutch of the Magna Transfer Case.

What I don't fully understand is under normal driving the front axle needs to go faster than the rear axle (front wheels take a longer arc through every turn). If the final drive of the front and rear axles match it's impossible for the system to make the front wheels drive faster than the rears.

Perhaps the front drive ratio is higher than the rear? I can't find any technical information on that.

 

The front differential takes care of the left-to-right wheel speed differences (one front wheel rotates faster than "straight-ahead", and the other front wheel rotates slower than "straight-ahead", but the front diff input shaft rotates at the same speed as the "straight-ahead" condition. Think of the front diff input shaft RPM as the exact average of the two front wheel RPMs.

But you bring up an interesting related topic, that I have thought about a long time. The Transfer Case wet-clutch clamping force can be adjusted anywhere from zero to full locked clamping force. So, let's take an example, that the front diff and rear diff gear ratios are exactly the same, then, if the clutch is completely open (zero clamping, 100% slip), then 100% of the engine torque is applied to the front wheels, and 0% to the rear wheels. If the clutch is at full locked clamping force (0% slip), then the torque split would be 50% front and 50% rear. You cannot achieve more than a 50% rearward torque bias if the diff ratios are exactly equal.

Since Porsche claims that the Macan can apply more than 50% of torque to the rear, this leads me to believe that the front and rear diff ratios are NOT exactly equal, and the ratios must be slightly different to be able to put more than 50% of torque to the rear wheels. Because the diff ratios are not exactly the same, the wet clutch must be slipping, to some degree, whenever the car is in motion, whether a tire is slipping on the pavement, or not. And as a side-note, this continuous bit of clutch slipping creates additional drive-line losses (heat), and is perhaps why the fuel-economy of the Macan seems a bit lower than what comparable vehicles achieve, with similar weight, drag coefficients, and engine size/efficiency. Any thoughts?

 

The front differential takes care of the left-to-right wheel speed differences (one front wheel rotates faster than "straight-ahead", and the other front wheel rotates slower than "straight-ahead", but the front diff input shaft rotates at the same speed as the "straight-ahead" condition. Think of the front diff input shaft RPM as the exact average of the two front wheel RPMs.

Yes, this is correct, and is also true of the rear differential. But has nothing to do with front/rear torque distribution.

.The center differential allows for the front axle input shaft to rotate faster than the rear axle input shaft. The average distance travelled by the two front wheels in any turn (assuming no slip) is higher than that of the front wheels.

If you've even driven a 4wd vehicle with the center diff locked you know the feeling of the front and rear axles going at different speed when you are trying to turn. Or the feeling of uncontrolled understeer when you should be turning.

 

I stand corrected...I did not realize that the front input shaft of the transfer case was coaxial, the inner splined portion is the input, the outer splined portion is the output to the input of the front diff, and the single rear output shaft is of course the output to the rear diff. Agreed, an open clutch results in 100% rear drive, and the clutch closes the torque path to the front diff. So, with equal front and rear diff gear ratios, an open clutch is 100% rear bias, and as the clutch is engaged, the front torque can be adjusted from 0% up to 50% max. Makes total sense now......thanks! Now I can sleep at night...

 

Doesn't the Macan marketing note it's a rear wheel drive biased vehicle with up to 50% of torque delivered to the front axle(s) if/when required?

Now we know how it works internally!

 

As far as PIWIS vs other DIY tools, this process is available in DIY tools like Launch X431 and Autel. My friend told me that they had performed this calibration successfully with Autel, but could not say anything about Launch X431.

@Santirx - would you be willing to share which Autel unit your friend has?

I have the MaxDiag 808 Pro and cannot seem to find any mention of its ability to perform a PDK calibration. Maybe your buddy has a more sophisticated Autel unit?

Thx!

 

Autel MaxiIM IM608 pro

Autel MaxySys 906TS

 

Transfer case calibration is possible via a special function. It is available in the Topdon Phoenix Lite 2 I have, which is rumoured to be a Launch X431 based clone with their own flavour.

PDK calibration works but the clutch calibration does not work on the Topdon. The chat support claims they can do it via a remote support session but I have never taken them up on it. I can get the menu to open but it always results in a failure despite hearing some 'action' underneath the car and meeting all the pre-requisites. What does happen after a failed attempt is the transmission can't figure out the kiss point for about 50km so it really slips the clutches on take-off. You need to let it engage before romping on the gas pedal.

I replaced both filters last weekend. Drained and put back in about 5.5L. At 164k km, the pan gasket was rock hard and needed to be skimmed off the pan with a razor. It was starting to sweat badly Suction filter had a date marking indicating it is the factory fitted filter. Upon cutting it open, nothing alarming was found. Magnets had less muck adhered than a BMW 8HP with less mileage. Previous owner claims to have had the quick PDK service done, which I don't doubt.

I did not recalibrate or reset anything just to see what happens. It drove perfectly fine, shifted smoother than before and quickly. I rarely drive with the paddles. No concerns to warrant poking the bear with resets yet.

Some people did note that the temperature takes a sharp increase around 38c. This is also the temperature when a buzzing noise started - perhaps the sound of a valve opening to the oil cooler ciruit? I couldn't find any definitive data on the correct fluid level checking temperature so to avoid temperature runaway, I tightened the plug at around 40c.

 

As for the discussion about how the system handles torque delivery during turns, this is my view:
The system determines where the torque is sent. This is only possible while under acceleration.
Most AWD systems rely on identical diff ratios at both axles.
Based on observing live data and datalogs from all 4 wheel speed sensors, contrary to popular belief the front pair does not turn faster in turns. Instead, the left and right pairs turn at roughly the same speed as each other. Not same but roughly.

Where the AWD system cannot control exactly which wheel receives the torque, it might call upon the PSM system to brake an individual wheel like BMW's eLSD. By braking one wheel, it effectively sends torque to the unbraked wheel on the same axle which is how an open diff works. I am not sure if this is actually how it's done by Porsche but it would not surprise me.

Of course, if you can get it into a 4 wheel drift you could probably see the 50/50 split in action with steering input. Perhaps folks who have driven it for fun in the snow.cam share their experience?

 

I recently changed TC fluid and one needs to perform the VTG oil change procedure in PIWIS. I couldn’t. Not with 38.250, 41.400 not 41.800 versions of PIWIS. It will immediately lose communication with module.

I was able to perform the procedure with Launch X431. The procedure consist of resetting the wear integrator, as well as re-learning the angle (a calibration).

 

Hey Santrix- long time listener, first time caller. (new forum member here, but not new to the macan, porsche, or wrenching aka headache world). I'm having the same issue after installing a 'rebuilt' transfer case and couldn't calibrate the TC with my piwis 3. I swapped my original control module and installed new fluid (man that's pricy!) and read some people had to calibrate while others didn't. I was able to successfully 'program' and 'code' the TC (with also did the PDK, and DME ; warning to anyone with a tune, flash back to factory FIRST) but when I went into drive links it physically wouldn't let me force calibrate it. I followed a few different technical instructions I found online, all with different dates and different steps, and all 3 would program and code successfully, though when I drive off it would trip the yellow RWD ONLY light. The codes would then read out 000110 'torque transmission faulty' and '000125 forced activation of psm' in the AWD control unit. Both were not active. The car drives fine in RWD as expected (so install went fine) but guessing since it's not calibrated it keeps throwing the light since it's mechanically seeing the clutch's somewhere else than it's supposed to be. After a few different attempts, and candidly couldn't tell you how I got there, I was able to hit 'force calibration' and I could hear a noise happening under the car, but then would pop up with a timeout with control unit error. If I went into maintenance repairs and tried to just use the 'new control module only' route, it would timeout or give me the '50700: execution of the function has failed' error.


After even more research, I went in and tried to code the car to the LU2 / hardened clutch coating option thinking maybe the rebuilt one from ebay had the newer hardened discs in it. The new TC was stamped 2017, but believe the newer ones happened in the 50th week, and my TC only had 4 or 5 stamps on it leading me to believe it was made in April or May (so no hardened discs). When I tried to program it, it really didn't like it, and failed out. I cleared out the errors. Tried it a few more times (granted it takes 15 mins each time) and it wouldn't go through. No biggie, I went back in and turned OFF the LU2 and attempted to re-program, re-code, and re-calibrate. This time, it would show an ACTIVE code of "000113 All-Wheel-drive clutch actuator - incorrect basic setting" which I'm guessing was me trying to code the module to the LU2 and it probably not allowing that to happen. I've tried clearing it, re-programming it, re-coding, and re-calibrating it but basically back to square one.

TL;DR ; I've been unsuccessful in getting the rebuilt TC to code / program / calibrate (whatever you wanna call it) with my factory OEM module with my PIWIS 3. I've ordered a LAUNCH X431 CRP919EBT (which one do you have?) from your post to see if that will do the trick in calibrating the TC. I'm unclear is if's a coding thing, or if the rebuilt TC is just bad/not compatible with my car. I have PIWIS 4 access at the dealer, though scheduling it through friends at the dealer is tricky. The Chinese TC ebay seller has been very quick to respond, but the language barrier is real, and getting them to do much other than telling me to 'continue coding' has been difficult. Return shipping I'm sure won't be cheap, and returns take a 20% hit so I'm trying to see if I can get it to work before I swap the old TC back in. My old TC was making bad noises and STARTING to fail so figure I'd take care of it before it left me on the side of the road or got worse. I may make a full post for this once I get it all sorted out for the next guy, but just wanted to share my experience

 

I'm not a DIY'er, but this information is useful. A search of this forum reveals that the transmission (PDK) fluid should be changed every 40K miles or every 4 years. So I expect to have to change the fluid and calibrate the PDK next year for my 2020 Macan S. I wonder if the local dealer will notify me?

 

This would not be a warranty service, but normally dealers will tell you that is due as is part of the 40K miles service. I’m not sure if they recalibrate but you can ask.

I use CarCare app to track maintenance of my vehicles. Is very good at reminding you of services.

 

Porsche makes no mention of calibration(s) unless the double clutch has been removed, same with the selector shaft calibration. Coming from factory Bmw and Mercedes, never did we reset adaptations (aka Calibrations) for a simple fluid/filter change. While it is doubtful a negative situation will occur, I have seen transmissions that were neglected not recover after a fluid/filter change with adapt reset that were marginally functioning before the trans service. Just a caveat emptor.

 

Has any one had any luck performing the "Clutch Bite Point" calibration on a Launch X431 Torque II? I can do the "Range Sensor" and "Distance Sensor" calibration no problem but it looks like I get a communication problem when doing the clutch which causes a calibration failure almost immediately. 2016 Macan S for reference.

 

I also have a Launch X431 919X with the available function but it fails every time. I reached out to Launch to see if they could help.

I’m having clutch slip issues in certain conditions and was hoping to run this calibration. As you mentioned, the other two functions worked.

Because I couldn’t run the calibration myself, I took it to a local shop to have the change oil, filters and gaskets serviced but they said they wouldn’t run the calibration because it would wear the clutches more.

I’d anyone can help that would be great.

Thanks!
Nick Button