More on Tesla crash. Their stock price is taking a major hit today.
Two die after Tesla 'on auto-pilot with no one driving' crashes

 

More on Tesla crash. Their stock price is taking a major hit today.
Two die after Tesla 'on auto-pilot with no one driving' crashes

My skiing buddy who is also the owner of her boutique investment firm admitted to me a month or so ago that she shorted Tesla. She NEVER does stuff like this, but did it on a whim. I sent a note to her today that said 'NOW' to exercise the short.

 

I seriously looked into Tesla over the last few months - even down to scheduling test drives and going up and talking to owners who were charging up. If you're a traditional auto enthusiast, there isn't much to enjoy about one. I see them all over the place now - same few colors, but I couldn't get excited about going to clean one up Saturday morning. Cost wise, there isn't much to save with cost of gas if that is your objective, when you could just get a Honda or something. I want to like them, but I just can't find a way too. Now if the Mrs wanted one, I'd say go for it, but for a primary vehicle for myself, Tesla isn't there yet.

 

We test drove a Y and my wife (who is not a car person and is mainly just concerned with getting from point A to B safely and comfortably) agreed with me that there isn’t a fair comparison to be made with a Macan.

We own a 2018 Macan GTS and compared to that, the Y felt very much like an economy class vehicle with interior creaks and rattles, super high NVH, cheap feeling materials/buttons/dials, misaligned exterior panels, numb and artificial steering feel, and an unsophisticated suspension that’s too stiff for what it is with terrible damping. Build and driving experience were better than a Prius, but not $50k good… more like $35k good(ish). In fairness, the MSRP on our GTS is much higher than $50k, but you can grab an S or GTS with a CPO warranty for about the same price.

The Y certainly beats the Macan in a few areas:
Has a more spacious and open/airy back seat, which is great for families.
The torque is truly incredible and while I consider torque to be a good safety feature (for people who drive highways and need emergency passing power), for most city commuters, that kind of power felt more like a party trick to us.
Running costs would be a lot lower thanks to EV vs. the terrible gas mileage of the Macan, but the 8-year battery warranty which covers the Tesla battery functioning at 70% capacity kind of sucks when you think about it because it reminds me of how cell phone batteries start to go bad after a couple of years and require swapping for a new phone. The range is only borderline acceptable today, so a battery that degrades means that the range will only ever get worse.

The thing that killed the deal for us, though, was the regenerative braking, which made us and our baby in the back seat car sick. We tried it on all 3 modes, and even in the least aggressive mode, we weren’t big fans of the driving dynamics of one pedal driving (or whatever that’s called). Granted, there is probably a learning curve to smooth things out, and that would address the car sickness, but I also found that a simple 10 minute drive, due to the absence of coasting which gives you the opportunity to let off the pedal, causes way more leg fatigue than should be necessary for a car that is supposed to be all about convenience. I guess that’s where self-driving comes into play, but we’re still not totally comfortable with that idea.

I don’t have to list the number of ways in which any Macan wins vs. the Y but everyone is different. If you value comfort, luxury, build quality, driving dynamics, and the amazing sound you’d get from an S, GTS, or Turbo, then Macan wins. If you want tech, efficiency, self-driving and/or if back seat roominess is a no compromise must have, then go for a Y.

 

We test drove a Y and my wife (who is not a car person and is mainly just concerned with getting from point A to B safely and comfortably) agreed with me that there isn’t a fair comparison to be made with a Macan.

We own a 2018 Macan GTS and compared to that, the Y felt very much like an economy class vehicle with interior creaks and rattles, super high NVH, cheap feeling materials/buttons/dials, misaligned exterior panels, numb and artificial steering feel, and an unsophisticated suspension that’s too stiff for what it is with terrible damping. Build and driving experience were better than a Prius, but not $50k good… more like $35k good(ish). In fairness, the MSRP on our GTS is much higher than $50k, but you can grab an S or GTS with a CPO warranty for about the same price.

The Y certainly beats the Macan in a few areas:
Has a more spacious and open/airy back seat, which is great for families.
The torque is truly incredible and while I consider torque to be a good safety feature (for people who drive highways and need emergency passing power), for most city commuters, that kind of power felt more like a party trick to us.
Running costs would be a lot lower thanks to EV vs. the terrible gas mileage of the Macan, but the 8-year battery warranty which covers the Tesla battery functioning at 70% capacity kind of sucks when you think about it because it reminds me of how cell phone batteries start to go bad after a couple of years and require swapping for a new phone. The range is only borderline acceptable today, so a battery that degrades means that the range will only ever get worse.

The thing that killed the deal for us, though, was the regenerative braking, which made us and our baby in the back seat car sick. We tried it on all 3 modes, and even in the least aggressive mode, we weren’t big fans of the driving dynamics of one pedal driving (or whatever that’s called). Granted, there is probably a learning curve to smooth things out, and that would address the car sickness, but I also found that a simple 10 minute drive, due to the absence of coasting which gives you the opportunity to let off the pedal, causes way more leg fatigue than should be necessary for a car that is supposed to be all about convenience. I guess that’s where self-driving comes into play, but we’re still not totally comfortable with that idea.

I don’t have to list the number of ways in which any Macan wins vs. the Y but everyone is different. If you value comfort, luxury, build quality, driving dynamics, and the amazing sound you’d get from an S, GTS, or Turbo, then Macan wins. If you want tech, efficiency, self-driving and/or if back seat roominess is a no compromise must have, then go for a Y.

I bet that baby winked and gave you a thumbs up when you hit the GTS with the sports exhaust open. I would have.

 

They call it model why? for a reason.

 

Okay, this is a Model S, not a Y, so, yep, a little off-topic. But I enjoyed watching and learning, and James May is always, IMO, a delight to listen to, so I thought I'd share this.

From a few days ago (and I have no idea if this is also relevant to the Y):

 

Oh. My. God.

What a PITA....


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I was looking at the Model Y since I need the trunk space for 2 folding bikes. But now I decided to wait for the Audi Q4 e-tron or the EV Macan.

My wife sat in the Model Y yesterday and she was quite underwhelmed. She says it felt cheap and flimsy (e.g., doors sound hollow, panel misalignment, etc.), confirming my view of Tesla cars perhaps with the exception of the Model S.

Tesla is merely a high tech computer on wheels, rather than true luxury cars or even good cars. I will wait for the real car companies to make decent EV versions, instead of waiting for Tesla to come up with good cars. Tesla did a good deed of proving the EV car concept.

 

I really appreciate all the beta testers who are ready to scarifies their lives for the sake of technological development.

 

But this should not have happened. It’s also unnecessary.

 

At the gas station. See you all in an hour haha.
In the street at home. The charging cord is not long enough ****.
Looking on at the Y. Gawd it’s homely.
Interior. An iPad resting on the counter at Panera’s.
A few years ago we could make it to grandmas house on a charge, why do we have to charge up this year.
Why does the car drive itself off the road in the rain.

Macan. Best all around vehicle.

 

Model Y battery will degrade over 10 years and will not retain value like the Macan. Reliability will be the Macan all the way. Fit and finish will be Macan. I would personally go with the Macan all the way and if you want electric wait for the Macan electric.

 

Model Y battery will degrade over 10 years and will not retain value like the Macan.

Can you please post your data on resale value. I'm seen a few examples seeming to indicate the Y is holding it's value exceptionally well, but maybe those were isolated cases.

Also, where are you getting your info on Model Y battery life? I've heard this before, but my brother has owned a Model S for 9 years and has lost only about 3% of his range in 155,000 miles. He has experienced some issues but battery degradation is not one of them. Are the Model Y batteries not as good?

 

I suspect Mr. Musk will get bored with cars and Tesla may not exist in ten years.

 

Sounds as if you apparently think if Elon went away tomorrow Tesla would go down the tubes. Yes he is a very visible CEO And I suspect the price of the stock wold initially nosedive, but the company is far from a one-man show. No doubt his Board of Directors and major investors insist there be a succession plan in case something were to happen to him.

While I don’t think if Elon departed it would be a good thing for the company, I also don’t think they will not exist in 10 years no matter what transpires.

There may be other reasons not to buy a Y right now, but concern about the company going out of business should not be one of them.

 

I'm in a similar boat as the OP. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with a Macan, but wanted to understand cost of ownership from a maintenance perspective. If I garage the car and plan to do mainly highway miles (1k / month), and do oil changes regularly (7.5k / 1 year), can I expect a relatively reliable experience with the Macan?

 

You can expect a relatively reliable experience from just about any car today. Cars are just so much more reliable today than they were even 15 or 20 years ago.

But it seems like you are more focused on cost versus the number of potential repairs. Not sure how long a timeline you are referring to, but assuming you’re purchasing a brand new car it will be under warranty for quite a while, so your maintenance expenditures should be relatively predictable. Keep in mind Porsches generally do cost more to maintain than most other brands. But you can save substantially by using a qualified independent garage versus the very high cost of maintenance at the dealer.

From a budgeting standpoint, I would suggest you take whatever number the dealer gives you for prepaid maintenance, and knock a third off that assuming you use an independent garage for maintainence and that you will be bringing your car to the dealership for any warranty work.

 

Buy the Tesla Y !

 

It comes down to personal preference. Porsche owners usually prioritize pilot involvement and dynamic capability over all the other stuff. Some, perhaps most, Tesla owners seem to want automation to do everything for them or to brag about meaningless tech features. Fueling and maintenance between the two will be wildly different.

The excess electronic "tech" on the Tesla is a specific reason I would advocate to look at Porsche or another option instead. The massive screen in the Tesla is a nice toy for geeks but imho it does nothing to enhance your driving experience. Fart Function and Ludicrous Mode are gimmicks. I think the high mounted touchscreen is a massive distraction. After the first week of driving it's probable you will feel let down by Tesla's cost cutting everywhere else. But the thing will launch hard in a straight line if that's your thing.

You know that there are other vehicles closer to the Y in performance/efficiency than the Macan, too. Also, within the next year or two, premium automakers will have eclipsed Tesla in powertrain capabilities as well. Shop around!

 

The excess electronic "tech" on the Tesla is a specific reason I would advocate to look at Porsche or another option instead. The massive screen in the Tesla is a nice toy for geeks but imho it does nothing to enhance your driving experience. Fart Function and Ludicrous Mode are gimmicks. I think the high mounted touchscreen is a massive distraction. After the first week of driving it's probable you will feel let down by Tesla's cost cutting everywhere else. But the thing will launch hard in a straight line if that's your thing.

This is very true. I've been living with a Model S for almost 2 years now and I am very much looking forward to ordering my first Macan. Tesla is cutting just too many corners with their build process.

 

Up until last week I was sure I was buying an EV. I looked at Tesla Y's and Model 3's, Mustang Mach E's, and the VW ID.4. It is virtually impossible to find AWD Tesla Y's for under $60k (or 3's just a little under that number). Plus, there is no EV tax credit for Teslas, and there is no dealership within 3.5 hours from my home in upstate NY. That eliminated that as an option. I liked the Fords, but liked the VW better and reserved a build. $52k loaded, plus a federal $7500 k credit and a State (NY) $2k rebate. Then I test drove a base Macan on Saturday and the EV dream died (for now). I cancelled the VW reservation and put a deposit on the Macan that day. A 2021 base Macan, dealer loaner, fully loaded, with only 4700 miles and the remainder of the 50,000 mile 4 year warranty, plus a 2 year unlimited CPO warranty. All for less than the comparable Model 3. No tax benefits with the Macan but wow, what a drive. I'm picking it up Monday. Our next car will be an EV of some type (when a 2014 BMW dies), but we hope to have the Macan for many years. I tend to hang onto cars I like for a long time (I'm selling a 2002 BMW convertible to my mechanic and replacing it with the Macan). Good luck with your choice.

 

...and my wife initially was all in on a Tesla Y until she saw the minimalist interior, and fell in love with the Macan when she saw it when pulling into the parking lot. Even before she saw and sat in the interior.

 

Tesla is not a real car company if you value the driving experience.

 

I found this thread entertaining. I have a 2017 Macan GTS that was trouble free for years 4 and 5 (bought it CPO after someone’s 3 year lease) but in the past 4 months I have had the following problems: A/C line needed replacement (15 hour repair), suspension sensor warning go off repeatedly (failed sensor), transfer case replaced, oil leak at timing cover and at vacuum pump (vacuum pump replaced), belt tensioner failed, both front upper and lower control arm bushings cracking and replaced, horn replace. My CPO warranty ends next week. Otherwise that’s about 15k of repairs for a car with 47k miles. I dabbled with the idea of extended SafeGuard warranty, but it’s not just the money, it’s the time. My Cayman had one issue in 7 years. I have to think the first gen Macan was rushed out the door, but YMMV.
My wife ordered a Model Y ONE YEAR AGO. We got tired of waiting and she bought an EV6 which frankly is quite a good car. The Model Y wasn’t cancelled and gets delivered tomorrow. I will drive it for a month as a trial; will sell it if I don’t like it (the Macan is being sold to CarMax the day before the warranty expires) and buy something else. Not expecting the love the Y (my other cars the past 10 years: Cayman, Golf R, Morgan 3 wheeler, MX-5 RF, I like pure drivers).

 

That’s true


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Interesting video to watch on CarWow. They race a 2022 Macan GTS vs 22 Model Y.

The first race the Macan GTS used launch control and wins the Model Y.

Then they spend $1,500 on a downloadable power upgrade for the Model Y, and I don’t see any indication they use launch control on the Macan GTS after that, then all the sudden the Model Y won.

You can be the judge tho:

 

I made the same comparison, but it came down to petrol or electric. I have a company car, so I don't need a daily drive. The thought of an EV sounds great, low maintenance etc., but I can't see the long drive time due to charging when we take trips. Time is money. Maybe in a couple years.

 

As an owner of EV I understand your concerns. My next vehicle will be an ICE vehicle.