[reguy]

😭

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-yearlong-review-update-1-sunrun-backup-power/

I have a common 100-amp electrical panel and the Lightning's charger draws up to 80 amps

Amazing! Advertise it, sell it, we’ll find out later whether it works in real life. No wonder people are suspicious. Buyer beware.

 

[grim]

Amazing! Advertise it, sell it, we’ll find out later whether it works in real life. No wonder people are suspicious. Buyer beware.

I can see the point of an EV as a runabout town car. Something for grocery shopping, appointments, etc. I can't see it as a "toy", like the Porsche sports cars I've had over the years, or for traveling. The Macan IS a utility vehicle. If you aint using it to haul people, cargo, or bad weather, then 99% of the time its a waste of its functionality.

I've been looking at the costs at his quote in that article, of $6K for the sunk cost, seems reasonable. I figure $7K because while he doesn't say his location, I'll bet things are more expensive and that was a year ago. I've had electrical work done lately and know exactly the cost to lay a 20 amp circuit.

Now I need to figure out the break even point in time, for a runabout, compare apples to apples. If you go to your local utility company, they might have a calculator to tell you how much your electric costs and compare that to gas cars. The MORE miles you drive, the quicker the sunk cost is paid off. Thats fine if you commute 15K miles/year. Not so good if you drive 5K miles/year.

For example, I see people around today where the spouses work. One works at home, the others commutes maybe 3/days/week. I bet between two cars they don't drive more than 5K miles/year. EVERYTHING you need for them is within 15 miles radius. I know how much I drive and before the pandemic, I doubt it was 7K.

And this is where things break down. If you get a car that gets 30 mpg and gas is around $3, the sunk cost might NEVER be paid off, depending upon your location and cost of electricity, in a reasonable time period. This TCO is something one has to look closely at and I do not see it paying off for a runabout. YMMV. If you its a Macan EV, and you drive A LOT, then it might be paid of quicker, especially if you don't need the upgrade to service.

And that's why I say the long hanging fruit for the early adopters is over. Now they need to look at 99% of the rest of the country.

 

[grim]

Got a random data point re EV infrastructure cost.
A friends underground garage management just approved all 80 spots for added EV hookup.
Cost to lay the main cable and stuff 500K. Additional cost per spot 6K-8K depending on location.
He has two spots. That's a 20K bill. And he doesn't even have a EV.

This is where the TRUE fights are going to happen, those with community parking. Well it seems your friend might not have community parking where you park where there is a spot but assigned spots or he bought those spots. Both times of community parking exist.

So, they need to increase the cost of the monthly condo fee. Just wait until the people start complaining they don't have an EV nor an intent to buy one. These kinds of fights are money fight and will be vicious and should end up in a vote. Its like where a condo wants a pool but the owners don't. Who wins? Who loses?

Now you are talking real money coming out the owners and they gain nothing from it.

 

[Robert M]

The reason for the sizeable bill is 80 slots will probably need the nearest power station upgraded to take the extra load, we did this for our business when we expanded last time and that bill was £160K, so add in all the install for all 80 units doesn’t sound too bad.

BTW when we changed one of our manager’s cars we looked at a Golf GTD and the Golf GTE plug-in Hybrid, the Hybrid is crap and can’t imagine why anyone would consider them. Either go EV or ICE not in between.

Unless you don't own an EV, yet you're subsidizing the bill for those who do. This isn't the same as sharing the cost of repaving the road in a PUD or some other gated community. There might only be a few EVs in the whole condo group but everyone is having to pay the cost. Doesn't seem fair.

 

[grim]

There might only be a few EVs in the whole condo group but everyone is having to pay the cost. Doesn't seem fair.

its not fair. This is where the fights are going to happen because "its for the good of the community". But it will be very personal. then again, is it fair if the community has a pool, you paid the condo fee and never use it? Or a Gym? Or a game room, etc.

The other thing I forgot to mention is people don't look more in the future than next week. If they are TRULY going to ban ICE, then electric capacity in a house must be far more than 64 amps for a 50 amp service. Most families will have two people, two cars. People have kids. Kids become teenagers and drive. I see many houses with 4+ cars.

So, it's 2024. You are say 25 - 40 years old and could be in the house another 50 years. Are you going to do the work twice? The LACK of planning is what is causing these sizing issues today. If I were to do this, I don't want 64 amps. I want 128 amps and TWO connections MINIMUM. If I were 30 and planning on teenager, I'd pull 256 Amps but not add the chargers yet.

IOW, you can NEVER have enough power. Because humans can't think of what they will plug in next.

If it cost $6 - $7K for an upgrade, I'd go to 400 AMP service, not 200 AMP.

 

[Footie]

Unless you don't own an EV, yet you're subsidizing the bill for those who do. This isn't the same as sharing the cost of repaving the road in a PUD or some other gated community. There might only be a few EVs in the whole condo group but everyone is having to pay the cost. Doesn't seem fair.

I think you misunderstand my comment, the price for the work involved sounded not too bad but that’s as far as it went.

My limited knowledge of condo living amounts to when I have when on holiday to Florida and the likes and rented a Condo for a fortnight etc in a gated community. I expected that the condo owners paid a yearly fee for gardening and general upkeep of the building but that was it. Never in my wildest dreams did I think you could be forced to pay for something like this.

That said there is another way to look at this, will adding EV charging to a community increase the value of the property?

 

[reguy]

Unless you don't own an EV, yet you're subsidizing the bill for those who do. This isn't the same as sharing the cost of repaving the road in a PUD or some other gated community. There might only be a few EVs in the whole condo group but everyone is having to pay the cost. Doesn't seem fair.

You're correct. Repaving a roadway or replacing the roof of a common facility would most likely not require a membership vote since those facilities already existed and the board has a duty to maintain them. Adding a new feature/facility as a common element most likely would require a vote, and the standards for approval used in the governing docs and applicable state statutes typically vary from 50%, to 2/3 to 75%. Those arguing for it will most likely claim it will enhance the market value of the properties. This would be very controversial. Those poor people who lived in the Florida condo building that collapsed couldn't even agree on whether there was a structural issue and if so how to address it.

 

[trusted]

Yes in my friends case there was a vote that passed by >50% to add charging.
The parking spaces are all owned by the condo owners. So, pay up or move I guess.
In any case I would be pissed to get a 20K bill for a EV charging port I don't need or use.

 

[grim]

Yes in my friends case there was a vote that passed by >50% to add charging.
The parking spaces are all owned by the condo owners. So, pay up or move I guess.
In any case I would be pissed to get a 20K bill for a EV charging port I don't need or use.

This is why you dont want to live under the heavy hand of condo fees. You dont know how much they can go up and then you cant afford the monthly payments.

Some only require 51% of a quorum, not all owners.

The Latest on Installing EV Charging Stations in Your Condo/HOA

Times have changed since we last covered electric vehicle charging stations. A reader has new questions: "Do you have any research or papers on installing EV charging stations on condominium property? We’re trying to determine how much it would cost, whether grants are available, and whether we...

www.hoaleader.com

 

[Footie]

Yes in my friends case there was a vote that passed by >50% to add charging.
The parking spaces are all owned by the condo owners. So, pay up or move I guess.
In any case I would be pissed to get a 20K bill for a EV charging port I don't need or use.

The joys of living in a condo community or not as it seems. 😬

 

[reguy]

This is why you dont want to live under the heavy hand of condo fees. You dont know how much they can go up and then you cant afford the monthly payments.

Some only require 51% of a quorum, not all owners.

The Latest on Installing EV Charging Stations in Your Condo/HOA

Times have changed since we last covered electric vehicle charging stations. A reader has new questions: "Do you have any research or papers on installing EV charging stations on condominium property? We’re trying to determine how much it would cost, whether grants are available, and whether we...

www.hoaleader.com

Agree. These types of issues arise with co-ops (mainly a NYC thing, also some in DC), condos, and homes in a PUD (planned unit development). Before you buy read the governing docs carefully or have your lawyer do so and summarize for you, and understand all of the implications, especially from a cost and a control standpoint. HOA approval can be required for and HOA rules apply to so many things.

 

[meerec]

I have owned and driven a Mini Cooper SE electric for over two years now. Installed a wall box charger to charge the Mini off my roof solar panels — energy has been FREE — and have been truly enjoying the little car for driving around Sydney. I wouldn’t have it any other way. That to add to my Macan GTS I love to drive at Sport+ around the hilly neighbourhood of Sydney Northern Beaches. The cost of installation of the charger into an existing 3-phase circuits at home was about AUD 2,000 including the charger itself. What not to like!!!

 

[dave-t]

i live in a condo and my wife is the president of the board which is nice because I know what is going on. our building has been trying to get ev charging at each parking spot. if a owner wants EV charging they have to pay for the initial install themselves and then dominion electric will charge that unit individually each month for the electricity they use. Doing it this way those who do not have Ev's will not be paying for those that do. the only problem is that we have been trying to do this for three years, parts are unavailable for the Dominion electric to do the work. We were able to get the electric vault updated to accommodate the ev charging stations but that is it so far. Also the waiting list for dominion electric to do the job once they have the parts is long. I see this as one those things our town thinks is great to have to future proof the area but did not look into what was involved and just approved the project.

 

[grim]

Caught on camera: Thieves now targeting one pricey electric car part

Viewers contacted the NBC4 I-Team to say thieves stole the charging cables from their electric cars, right out of their driveways. There’s a surprising reason why.

www.nbclosangeles.com

EV Charging Cable Theft

With electric vehicles and hybrid plug-ins sold in ever-increasing quantities, uncrewed charging stations create an opportunity for EV charger thievery. But there are some strategies and ideas to protect EV charging cable theft.

www.energy.gov

 

[Footie]

How exactly are they getting the cable off the car and charger, when mine connects to the car it lock at both ends, the car and the charger unit. Even when the car is fully charged and stopped charging it still remains locked until the car itself is unlocked.

Likewise when away from the house like on holiday I lock my charger down so no one can connect on and charge their car at my expense.

Mind you this is an inexpensive item at less than £100 if someone did indeed steal it and makes a change for the cats being stolen off petrol cars which are a fortune to replace and the damage they do cutting them off.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

The following videos make abundantly clear this effort to force a transition to EVs is unattainable, if not bankrupting
societies attempting to do so.

​

 

[grim]

How exactly are they getting the cable off the car and charger, when mine connects to the car it lock at both ends

 

[grim]

Two posts deleted. NO global warming discussions permitted arguing either side. You can discuss the effects of the laws, mandates, etc.

 

[reguy]

Thieves are adapting too, no cat converter so …..

 

[Footie]

There is no way the cable is $1000, I bought a spare for £80 off Amazon so either the companies are ripping off US customers or some reporter has got her wires crossed about the price.

Not wanting to take this off topic and away from the discussion of the Macan but clearly there must be a lot of despair people needing money for stuff to steal a bit of cable.