IMO, The fires are what they are. A RORO sank. Thats a big deal. Car fires happen all the time. Now there might be fewer but far more difficult to put out. Its just part of the decision making process. Take it as input and decide for yourself.

Your car, your house, your money, do as you please.

 

See post 267. Second and last warning. 3 posts deleted. See rule 8. No political posts even as explanation, it never ends well

carry on with rants but no politics

 

How do the number of gas pumps and EV charging ports compare in the U.S.?

"The U.S. averages about 104 gas pumps per 1,000 road miles, compared to just 22 EV charging ports."

Source below, which is an interesting read.

Coast | EV Charging Stations vs. Gas Stations: Comparing Density in the U.S.coastpay.com

 

How do the number of gas pumps and EV charging ports compare in the U.S.?

"The U.S. averages about 104 gas pumps per 1,000 road miles, compared to just 22 EV charging ports."

Source below, which is an interesting read.

Coast | EV Charging Stations vs. Gas Stations: Comparing Density in the U.S.coastpay.com

I know we have touched on this before about charging at home but you really need to look at the whole EV charging situation completely differently to an ICE car. You don’t have the ability to fill your gasoline or diesel cars at home but you can add an EV charger and top up your EV car so the density of gas station needs to be far greater than EV charging station, it’s simple logic.

Now I appreciate that in the US it appears that adapting an older home to be capable of home charging can be expensive but it’s the future and it’s something that needs to be addressed.

If you were to ask those members on here who own an EV and a home charger how often per year they have actually charged their car away from their home I am willing to bet that average overall would be incredibly low. I am not trying to tell anyone how to suck eggs but if you are considering an EV you really should be looking into home charging as well and if that expense is too much then for the time being I would stick with what you know.

 

They want to buy a transportation unit that is likely designed for majority of consumers.

Now I appreciate that in the US it appears that adapting an older home to be capable of home charging can be expensive but it’s the future and it’s something that needs to be addressed.

Here is the problem. Auto buyers in the US, the majority of them are NOT enthusiasts. We here are a Tiny fraction of the Macan community and a very tiny fraction of those who buy autos. In no way are we representative. For the majority, cars are expensive appliances, nothing more, nothing less. The big decision is "what color?" and "how much are the payments"?

Here its much more nuanced. Enthusiasts, regardless of which side you are on in this discussion, are extreme in that they represent the far end, several standard deviations from the norm, either side of the normal curve. Meanwhile, the majority, the normal, don't care one wit about the car, other than they need it go to work, school, shopping, etc.

And no, "its not the future", that depends upon a personal POV. I've been told flying cars were the future 50 years ago. Still waiting. I was told Laserdiscs were the future, I bought a player, cutting edge, early adopter and got burned. CDs? Cassettes? WAVE of the future. DVRs? WAVE of the future, none of it has been true.

Technology advances far too fast. 50 years ago who could believe you could heat up or cook a dinner in a "microwave" in 3 minutes when cooking took HOURS? Just 30 years ago whoever would have believed you don't need to watch TV live, don't need a cassette recorder, but could be watching anything you want, on your phone, in 4K, anytime???

Its a big mistake to "predict" anything is the future, especially when its in its infancy.

I went into photography for awhile, bought professional type equipment, I knew digital, over time, would replace film as the resolution of sensors got better, and now all that expensive glass don't really matter cause my $1K phone takes just as good a picture for 95% of things.

Time marches on and technology gets better and better and better. I would not bet on anyone thing. Choice is the best of all and decide for yourself. Choose wisely.

 

Here is the problem. Auto buyers in the US, the majority of them are NOT enthusiasts. We here are a Tiny fraction of the Macan community and a very tiny fraction of those who buy autos. In no way are we representative. For the majority, cars are expensive appliances, nothing more, nothing less. The big decision is "what color?" and "how much are the payments".

Here its much more nuanced. Enthusiasts, regardless of which side you are on in this discussion, are extreme in that they represent the far end, several standard deviations from the norm, either side of the normal curve. Meanwhile, the majority, the normal, don't care on wit about the car, other than the need it go get to work, school, shopping, etc.

And no, "its not the future", that depends upon a personal POV. I've been told fly cars were the future 50 years ago. Still waiting. I was told Laserdiscs were the future, I bought a player, cutting edge, early adopter and got burned. CDs? Cassettes? WAVE of the future. DVRs? WAVE of the future, none of it has been true.

Technology advances far too fast. 50 years ago who could believe you could heat up or cook a dinner in a "microwave" in 3 minutes when cooking took HOURS? Just 30 years ago whoever would have believed you don't need to watch TV live, don't need a cassette recorder, but could be watching anything you want, on your phone, in 4K, anytime???

Its a big mistake to "predict" anything is the future, especially when its in its infancy.

I went into photography for awhile, bought professionally type equipment, I knew digital, over time, would replace film as the resolution of sensors got better, and now all that expensive glass don't really matter cause my $1K phone takes just as good a picture for 95% of things.

Time marches on and technology gets better and better and better. I would not bet on anyone thing. Choice is the best of all and decide for yourself. Choose wisely.

Is it the future, I think like it or not it will be because the money each brand is spending on EV technology you don’t do that is you believe it’s just a fad that will run its course in 5 years.

But everything else I said is 100% correct, if every EV owner had a home charger then the need for a network coverage similar it ICE is negated completely. Anyone with a home charger almost exclusively charges at home.

And like I also said if the expense of home charging is too big a pill to swallow then at least you have other options.

 

In the US it’s not uncommon for people to take trips of more than 300 or 400 miles by car. I don’t do it anymore but I used to make a trip 1,100 miles each way once or twice a year. Home charging alone won’t work for that. There have also been many times when I needed my car late at night for an unplanned and unexpected occurrence, which would have interrupted overnight charging. I don’t think home charging alone will work, at least not for me.

 

A trip once or twice you say, so the rest of the time home charging would be perfectly acceptable. So those rare trips you will need to call in at a fast charging site and top up for about 20-30mins, great opportunity to stretch your legs, take a toilet break and grab a quick bite.

I run a business and I am basically on call 24/7, numerous times have I been called out to a false alarm etc. What I do is never let my battery drop below 60% if I can help it and always charge to 100%, that earlier discussion about 80% refers to fast charging not the slow charging of a domestic charger, is even if I’m called out I have approximately 160-170 miles available worst case, if I were driving the Macan you would be talking about 260-270 miles. If you are needing more than 260-270 miles at any one time then stick with a ICE or accept that occasionally you might need to add a few KW at a fast charger till you get home again.

 

Excited to officially learn more about the Macan EV next week!

Macan sets new standards: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche

Porsche is launching its second all-electric model.

newsroom.porsche.com

 

'A Bunch of Dead Robots:' Frigid Chicago Temps Turn EV Charging Stations into 'Car Graveyards'

A surge of stranded electric vehicles, predominantly Tesla cars, has overtaken the Oak Brook Supercharger station in Chicago, as a severe cold snap renders many EVs powerless and immobile.

www.breitbart.com

 

Why is it all Teslas having this problem, I am not sure but I do they share their technology with anyone else?

Don’t Porsche and Audi use Rimac tech?

 

A trip once or twice you say, so the rest of the time home charging would be perfectly acceptable. So those rare trips you will need to call in at a fast charging site and top up for about 20-30mins, great opportunity to stretch your legs, take a toilet break and grab a quick bite.

This is the part those advocating charging at home don't understand. Its not "once in a while". I agree 100% that it makes sense for around town "runabout", if the sunk costs were "free", and the car cost Toyota/Honda Money. They don't, they are all expensive nm the aggravation of dealing with permits.I've traveled extensively, road trip, around the country many times. Some people just have zero idea how big the country really is. And done many, many 500 - 1000 mile trips. When you are "on the road" I aint stopping for nobody. No, not going to stop to eat supper while the car is charging. I don't even like stopping for 5 mins to get gas.

Why? because time is money. There is only so many hours in a day and ALL time lost while "traveling" like on interstates is WASTED time. There is another thread here where someone recently said they traveled 500 mile trips and will not stop for anything. So Macan EV is out. If you have never done this, you can't understand. Interstates are BORING.

Is it the future, I think like it or not it will be because the money each brand is spending on EV technology you don’t do that is you believe it’s just a fad that will run its course in 5 years.

You mean like CDs where every electronic company on the planet started to build CD players?

No one said it was a fad. It is just another fuel source, nothing more, nothing less. In the EU, your politicians are FORCING the car companies to go electric. Otherwise, they go out of business. Do you see Toyota jumping all over this? Or are they waiting for solid state batteries? In the US, energy policies change with the stroke of a pen, and we are not going to discuss this here.

Take a good look at this chart and see how dismal evs registrations numbers REALLY are, but look at all the OTHER alternatives: hybrids, plug-in hybrids, biodiesel, E85 (basically corn), CNG, Propane, Hydrogen, and of course, diesel (which has fallen out of favor and YET, there are diesel everywhere. Without Diesel, no goods get transported to market).

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Vehicle Registration Counts by State

afdc.energy.gov

There are more "biodiesel" vehicles than EVs. And I don't even know what a biodiesel vehicle is Ahh, its diesel with oilseed, grease in it. OK, all the grease from Mcdonalds is fuel, I guess!

Learn About Green Vehicles - Biodiesel | US EPA

EPA's Green Vehicle Guide will help you find information on vehicles that are more efficient and less polluting.

www.epa.gov

 

This is the part those advocating charging at home don't understand. Its not "once in a while". I agree 100% that it makes sense for around town "runabout", if the sunk costs were "free", and the car cost Toyota/Honda Money. They don't, they are all expensive nm the aggravation of dealing with permits.I've traveled extensively, road trip, around the country many times. Some people just have zero idea how big the country really is. And done many, many 500 - 1000 mile trips. When you are "on the road" I aint stopping for nobody. No, not going to stop to eat supper while the car is charging. I don't even like stopping for 5 mins to get gas.

Why? because time is money. There is only so many hours in a day and ALL time lost while "traveling" like on interstates is WASTED time. There is another thread here where someone recently said they traveled 500 mile trips and will not stop for anything. So Macan EV is out. If you have never done this, you can't understand. Interstates are BORING.

I love data so here's something interesting about EV owner habits.

Home charging is a significant part of the electric vehicle (EV)1 ownership experience, with 88% of owners who say they charge their vehicle at home “often” or “always.”

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-electric-vehicle-experience-evx-home-charging-study

I'm surprised 12% do not and still bought an EV. If we assume a 14,263 mile/year usage, that's 12,551 miles charged at home and 1,712 miles charged outside. Now let's assume a Model Y charge rate of 20% to 80% in 20 minutes, or 271 miles every 30 minutes. That's 3.16 hours spent outside the home charging per year.

Now let's do the ICE version. Average Fuel Economy for model year 2020 vehicles increased to a record 25.4 miles per gallon (mpg). That's 562 gallons of gas. At a flow rate of 2 gallons per minute, that's 281 minutes or 4.68 hours spent just waiting for the gas at the gas station, not including the trip/wait/start/payment time for roughly 25 trips to the gas station.

Yes time is money, but the time spent at gas stations is also wasted time and more than offset by home charging.

 

Here is Toyota. They are betting on Hydrogen and 600 mile ranges from their batteries.

Toyota Unveils New Technology That Will Change the Future of Cars | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) recently held a technical briefing session, "Toyota Technical Workshop," under the theme "Let's Change the Future of Cars" and announced a variety of new technologies that will support its transformation into a mobility company.

global.toyota

Toyota confirms 750 mi range solid-state EV battery plans to catch up to Tesla, but when?

Toyota confirmed plans to launch solid-state EV batteries with 10-minute fast charging and up to 750 miles (1,200 km) WLTP...

electrek.co

So it takes them a couple of years. So what? The tech is all in its infancy and early adopters pay a DEAR price. The problem with Porsche electrics is they are FORCED, rather than developing at the pace the market would normally allow.

If Toyota pulls off 10 min charging, 600 - 750 mile ranges, AND SELLS THEM AT Toyota prices, the rest of the EV companies will be in big trouble and all the early adopters will be 😫

And look here

Could Solid-State Batteries Supercharge Electric Vehicles?

Latest Toyota announcement around a “breakthrough in solid-state battery technology” is surrounded by excitement. Let's dive into the science behind the hype

www.forbes.com

These battery materials can withstand low and high temperatures, making them very useful in extreme conditions. ...And solid-state battery materials are likely to have higher energy densities too, which means that for the same weight, you can store more power.

Yes, if the do it, there will be a lot of 😧

 

You need the companies like Tesla, that are visionary and you got to start somewhere ...

Then you need the companies like Toyota, that take things to the next level. They don't seem driven by any "mandate" but by how fast tech evolves. Everyone else in the middle, well ...

 

its not a hit piece in the sense the origin seems to be WGN in Chicago?

EV drivers struggle to keep batteries charged amid winter freeze

CHICAGO — The winter freeze is impacting residents across Chicagoland, but some EV drivers are facing an additional handful of problems as they deal with long lines at charging stations and reduced…

wgntv.com

Its been picked up all across the nation from all kinds of media like University of New Mexico

It's so cold, Teslas are struggling to charge in Chicago who picked it up from NPR

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-charging-extreme-cold

I hardly think NPR is anti-ev. And CBS picked it up

Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold

Tesla advises owners to keep the charge level above 20 percent during bitter cold weather.

www.cbsnews.com

Tesla forum says NBC picked it up. Those guys are arguing among themselves

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chicago-area-superchargers-failing-in-cold.319666/

I don't see it blown out of proportion, the Polar Vortex thing happens year after year. it gets 🥶

It is a hit piece because without doing any real research on why the cars are charging, the news leads the reader to believe that EVs don't work in sub-freezing temps. The Tesla form post #31 captures this sentiment well. The forums are saying that three supercharger stations were down, and when Tesla routed users to those stations they were unable to charge and died.

Instead of reporting that, extreme cold weather becomes a reason not to buy EVs. If extreme cold weather really affected EVs this significantly, this news story would be nationwide and not isolated to a couple stations in Chicago.

It's easy to blame the EV or the driver (for not being better prepared), but if an ICE car near empty was routed to an inoperable gas station, there might be a lot of dead cars at that gas station too. Of course it's easier to fill up a stranded ICE car, but still no one would write a news story and spread it with the message ICE cars don't work in cold weather.

 

It is a hit piece because without doing any real research on why the cars are charging, the news leads the reader to believe that EVs don't work in sub-freezing temps. The Tesla form post #31 captures this sentiment well. The forums are saying that three supercharger stations were down, and when Tesla routed users to those stations they were unable to charge and died.

OK, it was not a hit piece in the sense of the media interjecting their opinion like “ev bad”. But I can agree they did not do a good job reporting. The fact the chargers were not available is a very real issue and cannot be ignored, But I dont think they were attacking evs other than to get clickbait headlines. IOW, I dont see a direct attack on Tesla but clickbait headlines.

 

This is the part those advocating charging at home don't understand. Its not "once in a while". I agree 100% that it makes sense for around town "runabout", if the sunk costs were "free", and the car cost Toyota/Honda Money. They don't, they are all expensive nm the aggravation of dealing with permits.I've traveled extensively, road trip, around the country many times. Some people just have zero idea how big the country really is. And done many, many 500 - 1000 mile trips. When you are "on the road" I aint stopping for nobody. No, not going to stop to eat supper while the car is charging. I don't even like stopping for 5 mins to get gas.

What you are describing it YOU, rather than possibly most owners considering an EV. I stand by what I say and I bet I am right that the vast majority of EV owners with home chargers almost exclusively charge at home 99.9% of the time. I did get the size of the country but by the same token if you are taking multiple trips over huge distances then maybe you shouldn’t be considering an EV because at the moment the technology isn’t there yet for your needs.

You mean like CDs where every electronic company on the planet started to build CD players?

No one said it was a fad. It is just another fuel source, nothing more, nothing less. In the EU, your politicians are FORCING the car companies to go electric. Otherwise, they go out of business. Do you see Toyota jumping all over this? Or are they waiting for solid state batteries? In the US, energy policies change with the stroke of a pen, and we are not going to discuss this here.

Take a good look at this chart and see how dismal evs registrations numbers REALLY are, but look at all the OTHER alternatives: hybrids, plug-in hybrids, biodiesel, E85 (basically corn), CNG, Propane, Hydrogen, and of course, diesel (which has fallen out of favor and YET, there are diesel everywhere. Without Diesel, no goods get transported to market).

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Vehicle Registration Counts by State

afdc.energy.gov

There are more "biodiesel" vehicles than EVs. And I don't even know what a biodiesel vehicle is Ahh, its diesel with oilseed, grease in it. OK, all the grease from Mcdonalds is fuel, I guess!

Learn About Green Vehicles - Biodiesel | US EPA

EPA's Green Vehicle Guide will help you find information on vehicles that are more efficient and less polluting.

www.epa.gov

EVs are here to stay, will they replace all other forms of propulsion absolutely not and nor should they. I think it’s great that synthetic fuel is here as a possible replacement for petrol but diesel isn’t ideal and never has been and this is from someone who has owned in total 8 diesel cars, so if they can clean diesel up to an acceptable level then great but if not then we need a proper alternative.

I am not on for the pressure being put of manufacturers to go all in with EV but as someone driving an EV daily I am glad that we have it as an option but that’s all it should ever be, an option among many not something we are forced to take.

 

What you are describing it YOU, rather than possibly most owners considering an EV. I stand by what I say and I bet I am right that the vast majority of EV owners with home chargers almost exclusively charge at home 99.9% of the time. I did get the size of the country but by the same token if you are taking multiple trips over huge distances then maybe you shouldn’t be considering an EV because at the moment the technology isn’t there yet for your needs.



EVs are here to stay, will they replace all other forms of propulsion absolutely not and nor should they. I think it’s great that synthetic fuel is here as a possible replacement for petrol but diesel isn’t ideal and never has been and this is from someone who has owned in total 8 diesel cars, so if they can clean diesel up to an acceptable level then great but if not then we need a proper alternative.

I am not on for the pressure being put of manufacturers to go all in with EV but as someone driving an EV daily I am glad that we have it as an option but that’s all it should ever be, an option among many not something we are forced to take.

Except the government is mandating that I can't buy an ICE vehicle after 2035 so, in effect, they are forcing me to buy an EV and alter my driving habits to fit their mandate. They're not advocating that I buy an ICE vehicle and an EV and drive them in the manner that works best for the environment. They're just saying I have to buy EVs and I will not be able to replace my ICE vehicle with a like ICE vehicle.

 

But would you accept that you are probably the exception to the rule

Not really. This could be a UK/US thing. Lots of Americans do road trips for vacation. Its completely normal. Some people hit the open road, head out to Yellowstone with the family, take a couple of weeks, maybe camp out, many do motels. Some examples just in this forum, 41 days in a Macan

https://www.macanforum.com/threads/road-trip.191948/
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/2017-macan-gts.182861
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/1st-long-distance-trip-in-the-macan.83473
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/a-truly-epic-journey-6k-miles-in-14-days-in-raptor.145641/

Its totally normal to take vacations. Some drive up and down the East Coast, from NE to Disney World. Others are out west. Its normal to do a vacation and a SUV is a GOOD vehicle for long trips. No worries about dirt roads in the West where it is an issue for sports cars and sedans, no worries about those Spring snowstorms, etc. Many take a couple of weeks at the beach and that beach could be 1,000 miles away. Its as American as Apple Pie and McD 🍔🍟 Remember, its a BIG country. Huge. Its not like you drive 500 miles and pass through five countries and 3 different languages.

Dont you like the idea of packing up the kids, and heading out for maybe 5,000 miles and see the USA in your ... Chevrolet? Nothing could be more American than a road trip. I think its completely normal for middle class America to hit the road, pack up the kids, and go to Disney World, or wherever. It happens all the time.

if I were to be honest I don’t think I would want to be doing that amount of miles on my Porsche ICE car either.

Why not? There are, obviously, garage queens but those are the sports cars, not the "utility vehicles" Who keeps a Utility Vehicle as a garage queen? They are common, meant to be used to haul people and cargo. There is nothing special about them in the sense of low production numbers, etc. Some people throw all-terrain tires on them and have fun in the desert or wherever.

As Ferry Porsche once said "Our cars meant to be driven, not polished".

Solid state batteries are the future but they are at least 4-5 years away and I am sure as soon as the tech is available all the brands will adapt to them, the beauty of EVs and their batteries is adapting shouldn’t be too difficult.

Toyota says 2026, that's two years. Early adopters pay twice. From Toyota link above

We will roll out next-generation BEVs globally and as a full lineup to be launched in 2026.

The masses, the vast number of people in the middle of the distribution, if they change to EV, might be more inclined with solid state battery tech more mature than the current industry in its infancy.

 

Not really. This could be a UK/US thing. Lots of Americans do road trips for vacation. Its completely normal. Some people hit the open road, head out to Yellowstone with the family, take a couple of weeks, maybe camp out, many do motels. Some examples just in this forum, 41 days in a Macan

https://www.macanforum.com/threads/road-trip.191948/
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/2017-macan-gts.182861
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/1st-long-distance-trip-in-the-macan.83473
https://www.macanforum.com/threads/a-truly-epic-journey-6k-miles-in-14-days-in-raptor.145641/

Its totally normal to take vacations. Some drive up and down the East Coast, from NE to Disney World. Others are out west. Its normal to do a vacation and a SUV is a GOOD vehicle for long trips. No worries about dirt roads in the West where it is an issue for sports cars and sedans, no worries about those Spring snowstorms, etc. Many take a couple of weeks at the beach and that beach could be 1,000 miles away. Its as American as Apple Pie and McD 🍔🍟 Remember, its a BIG country. Huge. Its not like you drive 500 miles and pass through five countries and 3 different languages.

Dont you like the idea of packing up the kids, and heading out for maybe 5,000 miles and see the USA in your ... Chevrolet? Nothing could be more American than a road trip. I think its completely normal for middle class America to hit the road, pack up the kids, and go to Disney World, or wherever. It happens all the time.

You sampled a very niche, affluent, enthusiast forum. Most of the US is not like this and most people never even leave their state.

 

I found some data on roadtrips:

• 20.07% – Zero, not going on a road trip
• 18.70% – within 100 miles from home
• 21.35% – within 500 miles from home
• 11.59% – within 1,000 miles from home
• 6.75% – more than 1,000 miles from home

Grim - it looks like you fall into the 6.75%.

For every 250 miles you're stopping to charge once, unless you have a charger at your destination.

So 38% will strictly charge from home. 21% will stop 30 minutes to charge. The remaining 18.34% will have to plan ahead.

That's very reasonable to do now and even better once infrastructure improves. We're still in the early-days.

Edit: #5 point in the roadtrip article stating "nearly two-thirds of all Americans on a road trip feel the safest mode of transportation is rental cars" and #8 point stating "on average, Americans take about seven road trips in their lifetimes" is extremely relevant as well.

 

ok, 6.75%, for 2022 barely out of the pandemic, try to find prepandemic

The more things change, the more they stay the same 😀

 

Who knew?

 

Interesting thing here is that as the US continues to clean up the power grid, the cleaner EVs will become.

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-of-electric-hybrid-and-combustion-engine-vehicles/

 

Same issue, as reported from another source, one not known for producing "hit" pieces.

Tesla Drivers in Chicago Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

It's an interesting read. Just a sampling of the relevant and interesting points raised.

"Some of the countries with the highest usage of electric vehicles are also among the coldest. In Norway, where nearly one in four vehicles are electric, drivers are accustomed to taking steps, such as preheating the car ahead of a drive, to increase efficiency even in cold weather ......"

"Charging stations in Norway see longer lines in the winter than summer, since vehicles are slower to charge in colder weather, but that has become less of an issue in recent years since Norway has built more charging ports .... Also, the majority of people in Norway live in houses, not apartments, and nearly 90 percent of electric vehicle owners have their own charging stations at home, he said."


"Cold weather is likely to be less of an issue as companies update electric vehicles models. Even in the last few years, companies have developed capabilities that allow newer models to be more efficient in the cold."

So, it seems some of the "early" models are likely to become obsolete. I'm not keen to become an early adopter.

 

So, it seems some of the "early" models are likely to become obsolete. I'm not keen to become an early adopter.

Exactly why I am done being an early adopter. Jack Baruth said much the same thing about the Macan in 2013. It was not clear that Porsche could mass produce a CUV. Some people might think this true with all the problems associated with the .1 version

Avoidable Contact: Cayenne Won't Help Ya, Cayenne Won't Do You No Good.

“When,” I asked her, “did you realize that you, were, well, you know, an actual prostitute?”“Well,” she said, rubbing her cigarette out in the waffle-patterned wrought-iron table, shielding her eyes against the sun as it set in the distance, “I’d been dancing for a while, and there was kind of a...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

In terms of EVs, I think we are at the tail end of ".1" The earlier versions range was just terrible. Moving on to solid state batteries will be ".2". Early adopters pay a HEAVY price in sunk costs and having to upgrade.

In the early 2000s I bought an early HD big TV. It cost a fortune at the time. And the worst thing was there was NO CONTENT. It took years for the networks to make any content. I view that much the same as infrastructure, few chargers. And WORSE, 15 years later you could get a bigger, 4K TV, with a MUCH better picture, for a fraction of the 2004 or so prices. Today 8K TVs are being sold with NO CONTENT. In fact I can't get 4K content from cable (i.e., FIOS).

Being an early adopter for anything technological is good to have passion for something, but it takes a heavy financial toll.

 

Early adopter: A person who begins using a product or service at or around the time it becomes available.

This will get long but looks dive deeper in to this. First, the COLD.

Perhaps because of ideology or hobby or its thrilling, but a common trait of early adopters is to chase technology. Please make sure we use common definitions.

EV means a pure electric vehicle, no hybrids. EV advocates LOVE to add in hybrids.

Number of cars is number of registrations, NOT number sold in a year. A 50% increase of nothing is still nothing. If you want buy-in, you got to get the masses to buy in, that said, lets dive deeper into this. First, the current big headline, “cold bad”

Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

The reasons do not matter. People read it and will write it off. This headline is everywhere. Just like "Xerox" means copy and “google” means search. "Tesla" means EV.

‘It’s kind of like, I don’t really want a Tesla.’

Anyone who ever used a battery in the cold knows they suck in the cold. I got a weather station with a battery, and I wake up to a DEAD battery. Its too cold. My Lithium jump starter? I take it out to charge it and Beep beep beep, its too cold. That’s USELESS. When you need it the most, it fails.

But EV early adopters say charge at home is the way to go. Its been repeated here endlessly. But that’s not real life. From SBGLOBAL, a survey in Nov from US, UK, and other countries. You can read it.

Affordability tops charging and range concerns in slowing EV demand

Although battery-electric vehicles are getting closer to price parity with their internal combustion siblings, the affordability factor is the main reason consumers are holding back on adopting electrification, according to a recent survey by S&P Global Mobility.

www.spglobal.com

51% of EV owners have a charger at home. Let that sink in. Just 51%?

and 42% typically use it?????? It goes further to say that while the Advocates push this, in reality, it’s the MINORITY.



Why didn't the Chicago EV owners charge at home? Maybe because they don't have one?

 

This will get long but looks dive deeper in to this. First, the COLD.

Perhaps because of ideology or hobby or its thrilling, but a common trait of early adopters is to chase technology. Please make sure we use common definitions.

EV means a pure electric vehicle, no hybrids. EV advocates LOVE to add in hybrids.

Number of cars is number of registrations, NOT number sold in a year. A 50% increase of nothing is still nothing. If you want buy-in, you got to get the masses to buy in, that said, lets dive deeper into this. First, the current big headline, “cold bad”

Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

The reasons do not matter. People read it and will write it off. This headline is everywhere. Just like "Xerox" means copy and “google” means search. "Tesla" means EV.

‘It’s kind of like, I don’t really want a Tesla.’

Anyone who ever used a battery in the cold knows they suck in the cold. I got a weather station with a battery, and I wake up to a DEAD battery. Its too cold. My Lithium jump starter? I take it out to charge it and Beep beep beep, its too cold. That’s USELESS. When you need it the most, it fails.

But EV early adopters say charge at home is the way to go. Its been repeated here endlessly. But that’s not real life. From SBGLOBAL, a survey in Nov from US, UK, and other countries. You can read it.

Affordability tops charging and range concerns in slowing EV demand

Although battery-electric vehicles are getting closer to price parity with their internal combustion siblings, the affordability factor is the main reason consumers are holding back on adopting electrification, according to a recent survey by S&P Global Mobility.

www.spglobal.com

51% of EV owners have a charger at home. Let that sink in. Just 51%?

and 42% typically use it?????? It goes further to say that while the Advocates push this, in reality, it’s the MINORITY.



Why didn't the Chicago EV owners charge at home? Maybe because they don't have one?

May I answer this, I am speaking to quite a few electricians who are installing home chargers here in the UK around my area and as someone who is looking for a new EV I have been speaking to quite a few dealers for all the premium brands, all of their sales are accompanied with a home charger not a single one has been sold without that customer adding a charger. But you have to remember that a home charger in the UK even including fitting is less than £800 so why wouldn’t you add a charger especially when charging over night can cost as little as 10-15p per KW compared to an average price at a charger station of 65-70p per KW.

I think the percentage of 51% will increase year on year because Tesla no longer have the market to themselves and we all know they sold their EVs with free charging at their charger station for years so no need for a home charger.

 

Here's data from the Norway equivalent of AAA proving EVs are 50% as likely than ICE cars to need help in cold weather (by case amount).

Electric vehicles fail at a lower rate than gas cars in extreme cold

Electric vehicles fail at a lower rate than gas-powered cars in the extreme cold, according to a road assistance service...

electrek.co

Meanwhile all news channels keep echoing that the EVs themselves are the issue, and not the couple supercharger stations. If extreme cold caused EVs to die, this issue would not be localized to a few stations in Chicago.

 

We have had our first bit of cold weather, snow and minus 6 degree. Imagine my laughter when I stepped out into my warm EV whilst the wife was struggling with a kettle of warm water trying to defrost the door handle and clear the windows of her Golf R. 😊

Yep EVs are crap in the cold. 😂

 

Interesting article on how cold weather can affect the claimed range, and go easy on the heater if you want to make it home.

"CR Tests Show Electric Car Range Can Fall Far Short of Claims
Temperature and other driving conditions have an impact; Tesla doesn't meet range claims year round"

How Temperature Affects Electric Vehicle Range - Consumer Reports

 

If you leave Tesla out of it, since they are well known to over-promise and under-deliver (typical Musk), EVs take a 30% penalty to range at the tested 16F.

But this is not that different from ICE cars where "It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips" at 20F:

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

Cold weather can reduce your fuel economy. Our tips can help improve your gas mileage when temperatures drop.

www.fueleconomy.gov

Who is going to write the article?
"US Department of Energy Show Combustion Car Range Can Fall Far Short of Claims"

 

It is not a choice, unfortunately the tax Porsche would have to pay would kill profit or bankrupt them. Porsche is longer the company that builds one car. Lamborghini, Ferrari are in the same boat. When you move away from the boutique sale platform and greed comes into play this what happens.

I know the European Union are forcing manufacturers who sell in their countries down this route but is the same thing currently happening in the US or Asia?

I recall someone posting on another forum that manufacturers are being taxed to the tune of 15K euros for every non EV car they sell, is this fact or fake news?

I openly admit to being an EV fan, love the way they drive the handiness of being able to charge at home etc but at the moment I don’t think the infrastructure is in place to push it to the next level which is a replacement of all ICE currently sold each year from now on. There is a huge amount of work by governments to get it to this level and at the moment I see very little improvements to make me feel confident that it can happen in the timescale they have set.

 

I know the European Union are forcing manufacturers who sell in their countries down this route but is the same thing currently happening in the US or Asia?

I recall someone posting on another forum that manufacturers are being taxed to the tune of 15K euros for every non EV car they sell, is this fact or fake news?

The EU is forcing EVs on car makers via fines, massive fines, on emissions. You got to look it up. Its complicated, they can trade, but the bottom line is the more carbon you emit, the more the fines. This "effectively" kills ICE. They have no choice but to comply or go out of business. This might be the latest, it changes all the time

CO2 emission standards for new passenger cars and vans in the European Union - International Council on Clean Transportation

Reviews key elements of the regulation and potential risks for the decarbonization of the transport sector

theicct.org

CO2 emission standards for new cars and vans: 'Fit for 55' package | Think Tank | European Parliament

CO2 emission standards for new cars and vans: 'Fit for 55' package

www.europarl.europa.eu

CO₂ emission performance standards for cars and vans

Passenger cars and vans ('light commercial vehicles') are respectively responsible for around 12% and 2.5% of total EU emissions of carbon...

climate.ec.europa.eu

.

The US is totally different base on CAFE fines. You can read it here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy

But they were or are a joke. They were tiny, now larger but read

Automakers Opt Out of Cleaning Up Their Vehicles…But at What Cost?

Their decisions are undermining national security and harming consumers’ pocketbooks.

blog.ucsusa.org

For example, I doubt Porsche ever made the CAFE levels, so they bake the price of the fines into the price of the cars.

Report: GM and Stellantis paid record fuel economy fines

GM chose to pay the fines for fuel-economy shortfalls and bank its credits, while Stellantis reportedly says it's doing better now.

www.greencarreports.com

Although its 2005, read this, and I doubt many buyers even know they are paying the baked in fines that are considered part of doing business.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/fines-colleted-summary.pdf

TLDR, EU fines for companies are company ending. US fines are .... 😅

 

It’s not an alternative. They have no choice. Apartment, townhome and rental properties are ‘no-goes’ for EV owners or those who would like to own an EV. It’s not practical for them.

Unfortunately Joe Public don’t want to pay more for their housing to add such things as EV charging or improved electrics to accommodate it in the future, this is a fact of life we all want it as cheap as we can get it. When we extended our business I had to pay myself for the electrical substation to be upgraded to take the load we required, this won’t be paid off in a year it’s an investment over several years and maybe potential EV customers should look at the cost to add a charger in the same manner, making that switch to EV isn’t just for their next car but future cars beyond it.

But I know the US is a different animal to here in the UK and you have issues with your electricity supply that we don’t experience to the same extent.

 

Unfortunately Joe Public don’t want to pay more for their housing to add such things as EV charging or improved electrics to accommodate it in the future, this is a fact of life we all want it as cheap as we can get it. When we extended our business I had to pay myself for the electrical substation to be upgraded to take the load we required, this won’t be paid off in a year it’s an investment over several years and maybe potential EV customers should look at the cost to add a charger in the same manner, making that switch to EV isn’t just for their next car but future cars beyond it.

But I know the US is a different animal to here in the UK and you have issues with your electricity supply that we don’t experience to the same extent.

The only people I know who drive ev's are people that can afford to live in a home. Meaning, they have garages. Single family homes. Not multi-family structures as I mentioned. What I believe you might be trying to refer to is that it's the 'responsibility' of Joe Citizen to modify their homes to have the luxury to charge at night in the safety and security of their locked garages. That costs money, as you pointed out. So, I want to be a good citizen and 'save the environment'. I go drop a bunch of coin on an ev that I know will not get the range the manufacturers claim and then drop more coin to install a 220v line in my home to allow for a faster charge overnight. To what end? After a few years, the battery or parts of it need replacing (dead cells). More coin. Should I be 'lucky enough' to live in the Chicago area now what? mileage drops to nothing. Your ev vehicle needs to be towed. But now, the batteries are completely dead. More coin....

My entire career was spent in the IT world. You don't come up with an idea and force it onto the public without having a robust back end to support the idea. The 'Concept' of ev's is great. Truly. But there was not enough of a fast-charging ev support system nationwide. The batteries are essentially NiCad battereis that are, by default, fire risks and frankly suck for long term use. Remember all those NiCad battereis we used 20 years ago that required special chargers and over time held less and less of a charge? I do. For now, I say no. I will not be looking at a Macan ev or any other ev vehicle any time soon.

 

The only people I know who drive ev's are people that can afford to live in a home. Meaning, they have garages. Single family homes. Not multi-family structures as I mentioned. What I believe you might be trying to refer to is that it's the 'responsibility' of Joe Citizen to modify their homes to have the luxury to charge at night in the safety and security of their locked garages. That costs money, as you pointed out. So, I want to be a good citizen and 'save the environment'. I go drop a bunch of coin on an ev that I know will not get the range the manufacturers claim and then drop more coin to install a 220v line in my home to allow for a faster charge overnight.

I don’t know what the average home price is in the US so can’t comment on whether the cost to adapt to EV home charging is a significant price percentage wise or not. But either way I do think it’s up to governments to help this transition to EV. The thing I don’t get is why does all AC home charger need a 220v supply, you look at appliances all over the world, washing machines, dishwashers microwaves etc and each are adapted to the supply current of that country, here in Europe that’s 220-240v and in the US it’s 110v, I’m no electrician but why can’t they adapt EV chargers the same way as everything else?

To what end? After a few years, the battery or parts of it need replacing (dead cells). More coin. Should I be 'lucky enough' to live in the Chicago area now what? mileage drops to nothing. Your ev vehicle needs to be towed. But now, the batteries are completely dead. More coin....

Wait, you are telling me that these Tesla cars that are stuck at these supercharge stations need new batteries because they are completely dead?

My entire career was spent in the IT world. You don't come up with an idea and force it onto the public without having a robust back end to support the idea. The 'Concept' of ev's is great. Truly. But there was not enough of a fast-charging ev support system nationwide. The batteries are essentially NiCad battereis that are, by default, fire risks and frankly suck for long term use. Remember all those NiCad battereis we used 20 years ago that required special chargers and over time held less and less of a charge? I do. For now, I say no. I will not be looking at a Macan ev or any other ev vehicle any time soon.

As someone who took the plunge and bought an EV I can tell you that without a doubt it’s brilliant, the way they drive and their responsiveness it incredible but you do need a home charger be that attached to your home or if you live in a condo then where you park every night, only then will you get it and why we absolutely love them.

I don’t agree with the way it’s being forced on both manufacturers and the public, like I have already said the infrastructure for public charging isn’t what it needs to be but to be honest it’s not the solution anyway, only with home charging does EV make sense.

In the past I always bought my cars outright but with my future EVs I will be either going the PCP route or leasing, I want a guaranteed payment scheme and if PCP a preset figure of what the car is worth at the end of my scheme. So whilst you say you don’t want an EV because you are worried about battery lifespan I say leasing the car of a 3-4 years and hand back or PCP it and hand it back, either way you aren’t stuck.

 

Now lets talk Early Adopters, what does it really mean? From Exro, a battery tech company in CA.

Early Adopters of Electric Vehicles: The EV Adoption Curve

Early adopters of electric vehicles are the 2nd adopter group on the EV adoption curve as per Diffusion of Innovations theory for electric car innovations.

www.exro.com

It shows the normal curve, which they define to be the first 2.5% are innovators, and this means ALL CAR REGISTRATIONS, then the NEXT 13.5% are Early Adopters, and THEN the main stream, the majority. Finally the laggards. At 1% the US is stil in the innovation stage. The ONLY country in early adoption is Norway at 25%.

BTW, where did this curve come from? Here

Online MPH and Teaching Public Health | SPH

sphweb.bumc.bu.edu

I think that’s a bit harsh because I said the US was at late stage early adopters but these people are in the business and the US is just in the innovation stage. What does this mean? Well ...

Buyers Remorse, you can read it ourself, in CA, 20% are bailing out. Of all places, they want out for whatever their reasons might be

Buyer’s Remorse: Why Are 20% Of Early EV Adopters Now Defecting to Internal Combustion?

Is our honeymoon with the EV finally over? And what is truly the most environmentally-friendly technology?

www.motorbiscuit.com

It also means that early adopters accept the hassle. Its like Porsche and Value Based pricing. Today its crazy to pay the prices Porsche charges for options that come “free” on much cheaper Japanese cars, yet, people, myself included, do? Why? Because I want a Porsche. And early adopters wants an EV. The article lists lots of pain the early adopters go through and three years is about the cycle time so leasing is more attractive than owning. The tech is just evolving to fast.

Buying An EV In 2022 Makes You An Early Adopter, And That's OK

And more on Reliability, Early Adopters accept the problems, the masses will not

Early EV Adopters Forgive Reliability Problems; What About When We All Have One?

Consumer Reports agrees, reliability is the worst

EVs Are Getting More Reliable, but They Still Lag Behind Hybrids and Gas-Only Cars - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports shares insights about how electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) compare against traditional cars in reliability, based on owner surveys.

www.consumerreports.org

“ EVs ranked last for dependability and customer expectations for reliability, and they have the highest complaint rate”

“EVs buyers are still relatively early adopters, … likely to be ready to forgive some problems.

But early adopters don't care. Their priorities are NOT the same as the masses, the appliance buyers.