BTW I have the Lotus Eletre on loan over the next couple of days but don’t know where best to post my thoughts so if the mods can help where to post I would be grateful.

 

Other Vehicle subforum...

 

The only reason why electricity price would go up is the loss of revenue from the duty of fuel but they can’t shift the price of electricity because it’s not unique to the car

Sure they can in the US and do today. They know EXACTLY where the electricity is going because, as we discussed, it has to have a permit, it goes through a separate panel, at least usually, its a 64 AMP service, and check each state they can have different RATES because they want you to charge off peak.

So yes, they can charge whatever they want for that "special" charger.

BTW I have the Lotus Eletre on loan over the next couple of days but don’t know where best to post my thoughts so if the mods can help where to post I would be grateful.

Here, under Other Vehicle Discussion

https://www.macanforum.com/forums/other-vehicle-discussion.130/

 

Sure they can in the US and do today. They know EXACTLY where the electricity is going because, as we discussed, it has to have a permit, it goes through a separate panel, at least usually, its a 64 AMP service, and check each state they can have different RATES because they want you to charge off peak.

So yes, they can charge whatever they want for that "special" charger.



Here, under Other Vehicle Discussion

https://www.macanforum.com/forums/other-vehicle-discussion.130/

I see, I can’t speak for the rest of Europe but this is obviously different here in the UK because all I need was the charger and nothing needed changed to my supply.

Oven here off-peak times are through the night and a few periods in the morning and afternoon but general they as in the electricity companies want us to charge at night because they are still producing even if it’s not being used so better to get something for it rather than nothing, plus off peak means less pressure on supply.

Of course each countries supply and peak/off-peak times will vary but I would imagine that this will continue as they will want you to charge off-peak to spread the load.

The thing is until EVs outnumber ICE cars no one really knows what the governments will do to recoup the lost revenue.

P.S. Thanks for the link to posting the other in the right place, I will do that tomorrow at some point with some pics.

 

I'm surprised that so many members of this forum appear to be dug-in-against the Macan Electric (and against BEVs generally). Why am I surprised? Because the Macan is still ostensibly an SUV. It doesn't drive as well as a two-door Porsche or a Panamera or a Taycan; the Macan is higher and bulkier. Yeah, it's a sporty SUV/crossover, but it's not really a sports car. So for people to be so "dug in" on how the Macan BEV is so much worse than an ICE Macan is amazing to me. I personally see the Macan Electric as much better than any ICE Macan in terms of sportiness -- acceleration and power and even appearance. I'm ready to move into the future with Porsche.

Yes, the public-charging infrastructure is an issue, and because I do cross-country road trips every year (lately twice a year or more), a BEV is a problem in that equation for me. Thus, I've been planning on a Cayenne E-Hybrid as my next vehicle, though I don't like the larger size of the Cayenne; if only Porsche would make a Macan E-Hybrid! But as more news trickles out about the impending Macan Electric, the more I like about it. The interior screen/controls layout looks better than in my 2019 Macan; it retains the new Cayenne/Panamera toggle switches for climate controls, and it puts the "gear mode" stick into the dashboard switch of the Taycan and other 2024 ICE Porsches, where it's much better and clears up a lot of space in the lower center console -- brilliant design! The more I think about it, the more I'm amazed that Porsche kept the stick-shifter for so long; it's really a dreadful design that harkens back to the manual-transmission-only days of cars and was long-overdue for retirement (especially with paddle shifters on the steering wheel).

The new range tests indicating up to 325 miles at 70 mph in the Macan Electric is making me think that I might pass on the bulky Cayenne E-Hybrid for the Macan Electric as my next car. After all, 10 out of 12 months of the year, I'm driving locally and would never use public charging (only home charging). I see the next couple of years as very exciting in the Porsche development and release phases for plug-ins. My days of buying non-plugin cars are long behind me now. But I still like Macan a lot.

 

Electric Porsches are going to evolve faster than your PCM did in the Macan. Porsche is in its infancy stage and other companies like Tesla have been at this game for more than 10 years. One of the biggest complaints from service is that the support system is not as developed as other companies that have done this for a while.

Unlike Tesla did try to build a car that is more linear and drives more like a gas power car. Another words they are faking it. They would never in their wildest dreams do this, if they didn’t have to.

I would not be so sure about the range numbers that are claimed. When Porsche dishes out and Number, it’s under driving circumstances that might be different than yours. Unlike a gas powered car if it dies it’s dead in a gas powered car, you’re not only get a warning, but there’s a variety of stations that you can have any immediate solution.

The chatter I hear amongst owners in my region is that people bought the Taycan , have a home charging outlet, and don’t face a long commute with work are happy. Is the people who live in Miami but working in Fort Lauderdal who drive about an hour and 15 minutes in modest traffic get rid of the car. They can’t deal with it.

Lastly, when last minute hurricane evacuations were done during hurricane Ian and the storm turned, there were stranded EV vehicles of all makes all over the road.. you might recall it was originally expected to hit Tampa, and at the last minute turned towards Fort Myers. Some people even evacuated Tampa into Fort Myers. This created an electric vehicle nightmare…

 

This must hurt, Hertz, a bit ....

Hertz will sell 20,000 of its EVs in US to buy gas cars insteadwww.freep.com

 

I agree that folks don't need to be so salty about EVs. We should be thankful that Porsche is building EVs, as it allows them to meet government regulations (especially ex-US) while continuing to build the ICE 911.

Read today's Porsche Newsroom article about Macan EV testing. This vehicle is shaping up to be a Porsche that just happens to be propelled by electrons.

Re: @grim 's stats about EVs as a percentage of cars, two things:
1. ICE cars have been on the road for 100+ years. Tesla only launched their first mass market car (Model S) a little over 10 years ago.

2. Manual transmission cars were 1.7% of the new car market last year [Jalopnik/WSJ]. EVs were 9% of all new car sales in 2023 [Fortune].

No one is saying automakers should kill off manual transmission cars. In fact, it's enthusiasts who are saving the manual. (I did my part by buying a 992 Carrera T with 7MT last year!) So why the hate for EVs, which are more numerous than manual transmission cars?

All the arguments against EVs because of infrastructure mirror that of smartphone adoption over the last 20 years. I had a WAP phone and later a Palm Treo on a 3G 1xRTT network. RIM BlackBerry threatened to up-end carriers' infrastructure with all their data traffic. But guess what? Carriers adapted and brought out 4G and then 5G networks. iPhone and Android rule the roost now. And hardly anyone misses their non-smartphone.

But to build off of that infrastructure argument and America specifically, unless you've traveled abroad extensively, you would think smartphones and Internet in America is fine. And then you realize 5G in Asia is 10X as fast at 1/10th the price. Guess why? Complacency with what we have installed, among carriers and consumers. The same thing is happening with payments -- no civilized country does credit card mag stripe swipe, yet I did that for gas the other night.

I foresee EV versus ICE going the same way. Let the enthusiasts keep ICE cars. I want my 911 to run forever, and I hope my son can buy a 911 someday. But let's please move on from the "EVs won't happen!" argument, because they will regardless of what Americans think. And America will get left in the dust as other countries advance technologically. We will figure out all the thorny problems (public charging, electrical grid, energy density). It's just a matter of time and whether Americans want to lead or follow.

 

A voice of sense, so refreshing.

EVs aren’t for everyone, especially this early in their life and with ICE cars still available but in the long term the move away from fossil fuel is going to come whether we want it or not. We all know synthetic fuel is making waves and I have no doubt there is a market for it in the future but I see that as something to keep existing ICE cars on the road rather than a replacement for the EV. America will adapt, they will have to otherwise they will be left behind which would be a shocker considering it was an American firm that started the whole EV revolution.

As someone who has driven most exciting performance vehicles over the years and usually change yearly all I can say is almost 2 years owning my first EV and this is the first car out of all of them that I genuinely have enjoyed every minute and anyone who knows me would tell you I just don’t get attached to cars. It’s a completely different experience, it wouldn’t be my first choice for a blast up a country road but for 95% of my driving it’s easily the best car by far.

 

i watched the video of the Top model Macan EV doing 300 miles at an average speed of over 60mph which is very impressive but with an outside temperature of 70 degree it’s ideal conditions. I would like to see a similar test conducted when it’s near freezing because us that drive EVs already know cold weather is the enemies of the EV.

 

I agree that folks don't need to be so salty about EVs. ...

The is a LOT to unpack here so I will do it in pieces. I said before, I can see an EV as a "runabout" for town. But I am NOT willing to sink $6K+ into equipment, services, permits, etc. because:

1. I might hate an EV
2. I might move
3. I'll never see the ROI, never. Even if it increasing my base, its a pittance or nothing falling under the exemption

The biggest problem I see for people sinking money into home charging is the lack of foresight. It seems 64 AMPs is needed for at 50 AMP circuit. I think that shortsighted in that if all the "predictions" ever came true, ALL the cars would be EV. I got neighbors with FIVE cars. What are they going to do with ONE 50 amp circuit? I'd go 400 AMP service minimum and never the minimum. You can never have enough electrons. Just look at the vast number of electronics in houses today that no on ever knew would be invented 40 years ago.

So why should I sink money into something with no returns and could end up as a paperweight? And then do it over and over again in the next house. Weird. Now if it were free, then it might be something to consider, but forcing me to buy equipment. No, bad idea. Its not like spending $100 for a cassette component and then $150 for a CD player. We are talking THOUSANDS.

In any case, lets see....

I agree that folks don't need to be so salty about EVs. We should be thankful that Porsche is building EVs, as it allows them to meet government regulations (especially ex-US) while continuing to build the ICE 911.

PAG is building them because they have no choice. Otherwise the fines would put them out of business. Its that simple.

Re: @grim 's stats about EVs as a percentage of cars, two things:
1. ICE cars have been on the road for 100+ years. Tesla only launched their first mass market car (Model S) a little over 10 years ago.

2. Manual transmission cars were 1.7% of the new car market last year [Jalopnik/WSJ]. EVs were 9% of all new car sales in 2023 [Fortune].

It matters little. Numbers are numbers.

1. if there are less than 1% of EV registered in the country, they are insignificant. Those ICE cars aren't going anywhere. Look at Cuba still driving 1950s American car with no parts. Electric cars FAILED in the early 1900s and many thought them better than ICE at the time. Even Mrs. Ford drove one, Look it up.

2. Fortune's predictions were in November were wrong. Here are the 2023 numbers

A Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023, According to Estimates from Kelley Blue Book - Cox Automotive Inc.

Cox Automotive publishes a quarterly Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle sales report enumerating electric vehicle sales.

www.coxautoinc.com

source

https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Q4-2023-Kelley-Blue-Book-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Report.pdf

Its actually 7.6%, not 9%, "EV growth will continue to slow, and in the year ahead, we may even report the first quarter-over-quarter sales decline"

Also, be very careful reading hype, propoganda, whatever anyone is selling. Everyone might have an "agenda". Sometimes "they" lump EVs in with plug in hybrids and they are NOT the same. If it has a gasoline engines, its a different beast but it makes their statistics look better.

Just saying, Statistics, lies and more lies, .... spin.

 

The is a LOT to unpack here so I will do it in pieces. I said before, I can see an EV as a "runabout" for town. But I am NOT willing to sink $6K+ into equipment, services, permits, etc. because:

1. I might hate an EV
2. I might move
3. I'll never see the ROI, never. Even if it increasing my base, its a pittance or nothing falling under the exemption

The biggest problem I see for people sinking money into home charging is the lack of foresight. It seems 64 AMPs is needed for at 50 AMP circuit. I think that shortsighted in that if all the "predictions" ever came true, ALL the cars would be EV. I got neighbors with FIVE cars. What are they going to do with ONE 50 amp circuit? I'd go 400 AMP service minimum and never the minimum. You can never have enough electrons. Just look at the vast number of electronics in houses today that no on ever knew would be invented 40 years ago.

So why should I sink money into something with no returns and could end up as a paperweight? And then do it over and over again in the next house. Weird. Now if it were free, then it might be something to consider, but forcing me to buy equipment. No, bad idea. Its not like spending $100 for a cassette component and then $150 for a CD player. We are talking THOUSANDS.

Yikes, if this is your biggest problem then I have good news for you. It cost me $600 to install a 60A circuit and $400 for a L2 40A charger. But guess what I use most of the time? I use the regular 120V wall charger because that's all I need for my daily commute.

If for some reason I take a longer trip or my wife parks head in, then I use the L2 charger. I see no problems having five cars at my house and keeping them juiced. It's an extreme use case and I can't deplete all five cars that easily. And if I wanted to, I could easily add a 2nd L2 charger to my house for a total of 3 chargers (2x L2, 1xL1). At that point I have enough capacity to charge for public usage.

Anyway if I can afford a Porsche EV or most of the expensive EVs already out there, I'm definitely not going to sweat over a $1k home charger. I'll more than make that up saving on gas. And if I move it's not a big loss either as with any of the home renovations you do, it still adds value.

I can also charge at work or outside the home if I didn't want to install a L2 charger or if I expected to move.

And sure, some people live in apartments or places they can't install a charger. Some people have sucky long commutes. Some people take roadtrips a lot. EVs are not for everyone.

 

America is a different animal to pretty much anywhere else in the world, when the rest of the world was down sizing their engines and making them more efficient the good old US stuck doggedly to their huge gas guzzling engined cars for what seemed an eternity and to be honest it’s probably still this way for most so if there’s anywhere that change will be slow to catch on it will be there.

As @grim pointed out the internal electrics of most American homes aren’t up to scratch for home changing and chances are most American homes would struggle to buy the new EV and then add the expense of adding a charger, those that want to switch to EV and can afford will so I still reckon due to America’s sheer numbers Porsche will sell as many EVs there as most other countries. The only thing I am not sure about is whether many would switch all their cars over to EV straight away, I wouldn’t and I’m a convert. I am sure at some point in the not too distance future both our main cars will be EVs but I think by that time the infrastructure and battery technology will be such that you call in to your charging station and top up in much the same way as you current do at your gas station.

In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if future EV can’t be charged at home but I imagine by that point a top up will take 5-10 mins and running costs will be similar to what you currently pay to run you ICE.

You look at how quickly things have advanced within the past 10 years, I reckon within the next 10 the EV will leave the ICE equivalent miles behind.

Our problem is we are only seeing the here and now not what’s in the development pipeline, it’s the main reason why I won’t buy my next car either EV or ICE for the wife, both will be leased before the future is so volatile.

 

Here is an article arguing against the anti-ev argument. Parts of it are reasonable.

The Arguments Against EVs Are All Bad

Growing pains aren’t dealbreakers.

heatmap.news

But notice they dont talk about what I consider to be the dealbreaker, ie, the sunk costs.

 

Australia 🇦🇺 is ready for Macan EV yay!!

I’ve been driving a Mini EV for three years now and love it … there’s very little, if anything, to go wrong with it, my service costs me $0 every year (Mini included it free of charge for 4 years and it comes down to inspection and replacing the a/c filter). This year I replaced two front tires after 3 years, the brakes are still at 100%. All my charging is done at home from energy coming from my roof. My “infrastructure“ for charging on the wall cost me less than AUD 2,000 installed. The same wall box charger will supply energy to Macan EV soon !! Yay … Never have blackouts, brownouts or whatever here.

The new Macan looks stunning … many of you may have seen this video released some 15 hours ago by Porsche.
The development of Macan EV

 

I had a wonderful EV day today with almost 7 hours of in town driving from 4am to 8pm covering 204 miles in sublime comfort with a lot of stop/go, waiting for things, and picking up dropping off taking care of family with supreme in cabin all systems on (heat/cool/massage) with no exhaust. That cost me 81.6kW x 13.74c = $11.21 since I charged at home. This could be free if I would use free to me public charging. My home setup may not be typical with one time cost $400 labor and $400 charger with 30% tax credit up to $1,000 in 2023.

Taycan is not very efficient (2.5mi/kWh vs. Tesla 4.5mi/kWh if you believe them) but it is a sports car of EVs so that does not matter to me since performance and handling is second to none and I pass them often in a blink of time. I charged 100% overnight since I knew it will be a long day. That was enough to last all day with 81.6kWh used. This is a perfect use case for anyone considering Macan EV.

 

I'm going to respond with just one off-topic comparison, if you'll allow me to indulge to respond to your comparison.

Analogies are fine. Its not OT when its used to explain your position.

We cannot get into the controversy (eg climate arguments, real or not) as that is not permitted but the laws, mandates, etc are fine NO political/controversial posts are permitted, except when directly related to the Porsche Macan, for example, new legislation regarding automobiles and climate issues pertaining to the movement to Electric Vehicles.

When tobacco use peaked in the mid-1960s, more than 40 percent of the U.S. adult population smoked cigarettes. [NIH]
Annual per capita cigarette consumption increased from 54 cigarettes in 1900 to 4345 cigarettes in 1963 and then decreased to 2261 in 1998. [CDC]
Governments at all levels banned smoking in restaurants, offices, and airplanes. The US states governments' lawsuit against Big Tobacco was settled for $206B. The result? Heavy-handed government mandates and legal actions really did curb smoking to the point where I can't think of the last time I saw a group of people smoking cigarettes. The Big Tobacco companies, not wanting to die, moved on to smokeless products and continue to make money.

As @yrralis1 noted this as a red herring, but more, its a false equivalence.

Sure, smoking is now down to 14%? But that's still MILLIONS of people. And why? Sin tax. They tried banning alcohol and that failed. They knew they could not ban tobacco, and now they allow MJ. How does that make sense other than to collect tax revenues they are missing out on? But its the false equivalence that stand outs.

People KNOW, its without question, that if you smoke the risk of actually dying is vastly greater. Its been known, as fact, for 50 years. AND STILL people take up smoking.

There is no evidence that not buying an EV will lead to your death because you chose, as an individual, not to buy one. This is a false equivalence.

 

America went from no airplanes to a man on the moon in 60 years. With less computing power than what's in your Macan's PCM. When there's a will, there's a way.

I'm not sure how that relates but OK. That only holds up as long as Moores Law holds and last I read, Moores Law is about over.

Norway's new car market is now 87% EV, and their electrical grid has not collapsed.

Another false equivalence. There is no way you can scale Norway to the US. Norway is blessed with the ability to export oil (as is the US) but has an abundance of its electric powered by hydro. This is easy to look up in wiki, a few years ago it was 99% hydro and today 88%. Have you ever watched hydro work? Its on demand, as electricity is on demand. When demand grows, they just open up more gates. The raptors love it. The fish get stunned coming through the gates and the raptors swoop down for lunch. No demand? They turn off the gates. How much hydro is in the USA? Easy to look up, 6%. VASTLY different. Hydro is great. They ought to build more of them.

The population of Norway fits into the metro Phoenix area. Its a TINY population. There are less than 6M cars vs 286M in the US. How about charging stations on the highways. Norway has 100K KM, the US has 6.6M. IOW, Norway has 1.5% the amount of roads. 100,000 vs 6,600,000 km. There is NO WAY you can compare Norway to the US. They should not be spoke in the same breath with the USA, in sense of scale. It doesn't scale up.

 

When you hear the money manufacturers like Porsche are putting into the development of EV technology you have to admit to yourself whether you agree with EVs or not that they are here to stay.

Clearly they know something we don’t.

 

I wonder if added charging infrastructure in a home might eventually prove to be like kitchens and bathrooms with a decent return on the investment.

I have noticed short-term rentals embracing installation.

 

As EVs become all the more common and more and more people starting owning them well then if you are looking to move house having an EV charger already install is a bonus.

 

Macan EV is launching end of 2024 as a 2025 model correct? With VW Group (Porsche, Audi, VW, Scout) announcing they are adopting NACS starting in 2025 wonder if the Macan EV will include NACS.

Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche and Scout Motors brands to implement the North American Charging Standard in future electric vehicles

Future Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche and Scout electric vehicles to use the North American Charging Standard (NACS) charging port, starting in 2025

newsroom.porsche.com

 

I think it's difficult to say whether adding EV charging equipment to a home in the US will increase the market value of the home, especially at this point in time. To the extent many or most people seeking to purchase a home in the area have or plan to buy one or more EV vehicles, then it should be a plus. But, in the US, we're not there yet. Everyone I know uses the kitchen and the bathrooms in their home, so upgrading those home features will typically result in an increase in market value. This also assumes that the EV equipment that one installs remains current (no pun intended) and does not become obsolete. I cannot really see though the resulting increase in value exceeding much more than the cost of installing such equipment in an existing home, getting building department permits and approvals, and a factor for the general nuisance of having contractors work in your home.

 

I cannot really see though the resulting increase in value exceeding much more than the cost of installing such equipment

Yes, I'd be shocked if it did. But if you could assume you'd get 50% or more back of what you put in, it changes the equation a bit...

 

I know you're exaggerating, but 99% of the country is not even close. "The widespread adoption of 200-amp electrical service in the United States became more common starting in the mid-20th century, particularly in the 1950s and 1960s." (ChatGPT lol)

99% referred to the <1% EV vs ICE in the country. Those are the early adopters, the low hanging fruit. To be successful, now they got to get the other 99%

In regards to housing, ChatGPT is wrong,

30 AMP was prior to WWII
60 AMP post WWII
100 AMP in the 60s
200 AMP post 1980

When Did 200 Amp Service Become Standard? - Answered

Have you been pondering, “When did 200 amp service become standard?” This detailed answer takes you down the electrical history lane.

www.galvinpower.org

Why Upgrade To A 200 AMP Electric Panel • Genesis Electrical Service 2024

What is the difference between a 100 AMP electric panel and a 200 AMP electric panel? 2024

genesiselectric.com

.

Home more than 20 years old? Here’s why you need an electrical system checkup

Modern homes are jam-packed with devices and equipment that run all or most of the day – and that means your home’s electrical system is constantly working hard. If your home’s more than 20-years-o…

blog.hsb.com

its all over the internet, easy to find. So how many houses were built pre 1980 vs post 1980? What the area under the curve? Its not 99%, that the early adopters. But my guess is there are far more houses built pre-1980 vs post. From the Fed, who might actually know these numbers.

New Privately-Owned Housing Units Completed: Single-Family Units

Graph and download economic data for New Privately-Owned Housing Units Completed: Single-Family Units (COMPU1USA) from Jan 1968 to Jun 2025 about 1-unit structures, family, new, private, housing, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Number of houses built in the U.S. | Statista

The largest share of the housing stock in the United States as of 2021 was built between 1975 and 1979.

www.statista.com

.

The largest share of the housing stock in the United States as of 2021 was built between 1975 and 1979. There were 18.5 million homes built

There's a whole lot of houses who can get L2 chargers, we're just scratching the surface. In 2022 only 10% of the houses in my neighborhood have EVs. At the end of 2023 it's up to 36%. That's a lot of people who can still get an EV.

And I see few to none. In a 10 square mile, driving around, I see maybe 2 or 3. This is all location driven, we've been over this many posts ago. Some states have virtually zero registration. Even CA is only about 3%. You'd think they were breeding like rabbits. But not.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Vehicle Registration Counts by State

Finally I get that you want ROI now, but a lot of people are in it for the long game. Especially knowing that EVs are the future, I know I'd reach BE even if I had to wait 10 years.

I don't know that and neither do you. Hydrogen might be the future. Some other alternative could be the future. Early Adopters take huge risks, pay the most money, and many times lose. Just ask all those people who bought Laser Disks players and Laser Disk libraries.

Even CA, the leader has more E85 vehicles than EVs. Amazing huh? I would never bet on EVs being the "future". The tech is in its infancy. And @yrralis1 has good points about Porsche and its electronic. Want a Porsche Charger? Thats $1,670 please

Porsche Wall Charger Connect | PORSCHE SHOP

Experience effortless EV charging with the Porsche-designed wall charger from the convenience of your own home.

shop.porsche.com

You just wait and see how often they change their electronics.

But even if were definitely the future, it would still have to be a break even point and my point was the less miles driven, the farther out, in years, it becomes. And by that I mean like 15 years.

 

99% referred to the <1% EV vs ICE in the country. Those are the early adopters, the low hanging fruit. To be successful, now they got to get the other 99%

In regards to housing, ChatGPT is wrong,

30 AMP was prior to WWII
60 AMP post WWII
100 AMP in the 60s
200 AMP post 1980

When Did 200 Amp Service Become Standard? - Answered

Have you been pondering, “When did 200 amp service become standard?” This detailed answer takes you down the electrical history lane.

www.galvinpower.org

Why Upgrade To A 200 AMP Electric Panel • Genesis Electrical Service 2024

What is the difference between a 100 AMP electric panel and a 200 AMP electric panel? 2024

genesiselectric.com

.

Home more than 20 years old? Here’s why you need an electrical system checkup

Modern homes are jam-packed with devices and equipment that run all or most of the day – and that means your home’s electrical system is constantly working hard. If your home’s more than 20-years-o…

blog.hsb.com

its all over the internet, easy to find. So how many houses were built pre 1980 vs post 1980? What the area under the curve? Its not 99%, that the early adopters. But my guess is there are far more houses built pre-1980 vs post.

New Privately-Owned Housing Units Completed: Single-Family Units

Graph and download economic data for New Privately-Owned Housing Units Completed: Single-Family Units (COMPU1USA) from Jan 1968 to Jun 2025 about 1-unit structures, family, new, private, housing, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Number of houses built in the U.S. | Statista

The largest share of the housing stock in the United States as of 2021 was built between 1975 and 1979.

www.statista.com

.

The largest share of the housing stock in the United States as of 2021 was built between 1975 and 1979. There were 18.5 million homes built



And I see none. Zero. In a 10 square mile, driving around, I see maybe 2 or 3. This is all location driven, we've been over this many posts ago. Some states have virtually zero registration. Even CA is only about 3%. You'd think they were breeding like rabbits. But not.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Vehicle Registration Counts by State

I don't know that and neither do you. Hydrogen might be the future. Some other alternative could be the future. Early Adopters take huge risks, pay the most money, and many times lose. Just ask all those people who bought Laser Disks players and Laser Disk libraries.

Look at the government stats above. AL has more biodiesel and far more E85 vehicles than EV but a wide margin. Even CA, the leader has more E85 vehicles than EVs. Amazing huh? I would never bet on EVs being the "future".

The tech is in its infancy. And @yrralis1 has good points about Porsche and its electronic. Want a Porsche Charger? Thats $1,670 please

Porsche Wall Charger Connect | PORSCHE SHOP

Experience effortless EV charging with the Porsche-designed wall charger from the convenience of your own home.

shop.porsche.com

You just wait and see how often they change their electronics.

I have a friend who has a collection of cars . He has EV , hybrid and Ice (including a Carrera T ) , His words to me were "you have to look at EV and Ice totally separate " . He also said " there will always be at least one Ice car" in his garage.

The real surprise for him was the hybrid . His wife is an EV queen and he thought for sure that she wanted to replace her Audi E Tron with another EV . to his surprise she drove a Rav 4 hybrid and picked that instead . They own several homes and never took their E Tron on the long trip between them . They can now take the Toyota anywhere without worry . Found town its in the electric mode . He has some insane figure that I dont recall on his first tank of gas . The worry is gone for her .

Now why go through all of this ? I keep telling you . Many are just fake do gooders . Others really think they are saving the planet . The only exception I can think of is the Taycan . It really is the more comfortable and stylish car than the Panamera ... BUT ... Its already dated. The refresh is going to CREAM the predecessor . Its like an iPhone (always changing ) . At 200K one needs deep pockets . Even a CPO is like a CPO iPhone ... you'll see . 2025 is the Taycan refresh .

 

Here is some information for 100 Amp panels and load shifting

https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Design-guidelines-for-home-electrification-v021023.pdf

Yeah, not buying into this either. Its just time shift things. Its does not solve the fundamental problem that the housing was never designed to handle the electrical loads and that means the House panel, and the distribution lines TO the house. If the electric company has to start digging the lines, putting in new lines, sigh ....

And it won't be one house. It will be ALL the houses in an area because at least most areas, all the houses are more or less built around the same time.

 

Even if the line isn't underground, there's significant co$t to have the power company run a new line from the pole to the structure.

Been there, done that...

In order for the buyers of a home I owned & sold years ago to proceed with the deal, they insisted that I upgrade the service from
60 amp to 200 amp. All that for a structure that had knob & tube wiring!

The electrician I hired asked if they were going to install a welding shop! The guy is an artist (painting).

I believe they were told by their friends that they "needed" 200 amp service. This was all for a 1700 sq. ft. home.

 

I believe they were told by their friends that they "needed" 200 amp service. This was all for a 1700 sq. ft. home.

It's possible they wanted an induction cooktop? Or a L2 charger?

 

99% referred to the <1% EV vs ICE in the country. Those are the early adopters, the low hanging fruit. To be successful, now they got to get the other 99%

In regards to housing, ChatGPT is wrong,

30 AMP was prior to WWII
60 AMP post WWII
100 AMP in the 60s
200 AMP post 1980

When Did 200 Amp Service Become Standard? - Answered

Have you been pondering, “When did 200 amp service become standard?” This detailed answer takes you down the electrical history lane.

www.galvinpower.org

Why Upgrade To A 200 AMP Electric Panel • Genesis Electrical Service 2024

What is the difference between a 100 AMP electric panel and a 200 AMP electric panel? 2024

genesiselectric.com

.

Home more than 20 years old? Here’s why you need an electrical system checkup

Modern homes are jam-packed with devices and equipment that run all or most of the day – and that means your home’s electrical system is constantly working hard. If your home’s more than 20-years-o…

blog.hsb.com

its all over the internet, easy to find. So how many houses were built pre 1980 vs post 1980? What the area under the curve? Its not 99%, that the early adopters. But my guess is there are far more houses built pre-1980 vs post. From the Fed, who might actually know these numbers.

First search result shows half of all homes are built after 1980, as of August 2018. That means that probably by now more than half of homes support L2 charging (for those who just can't survive on L1).

Half of US Homes Built before 1980 | Eye On Housing

The median age of owner-occupied homes is 37 years, according to the latest data from the 2016 American Community Survey. Compared to a median age of 31 years in 2005, the U.S. owner-occupied housing stock is aging gradually. This aging trend is primarily because of modest gains in residential...

eyeonhousing.org

Then you have a lot of older homes that have been remodeled. >50% sounds like a lot of low hanging fruit to me.

Even CA, the leader has more E85 vehicles than EVs. Amazing huh? I would never bet on EVs being the "future". The tech is in its infancy. And @yrralis1 has good points about Porsche and its electronic. Want a Porsche Charger? Thats $1,670 please

For now. And no, why order a branded charger? And if you do care about a seriously overpriced charger, you probably are not in it for the value.

I don't know that and neither do you. Hydrogen might be the future. Some other alternative could be the future. Early Adopters take huge risks, pay the most money, and many times lose. Just ask all those people who bought Laser Disks players and Laser Disk libraries.

But even if were definitely the future, it would still have to be a break even point and my point was the less miles driven, the farther out, in years, it becomes. And by that I mean like 15 years.

True it is in its infancy but the growth has been staggering. Like I said just my neighborhood alone increased from 10% EV ownership to 28%, myself included. And you're right, I don't know for sure if EVs are the future, but for most people, it don't matter because they can easily call a electrician to install a L2 charger in their garage, next to their 200A service panel. And that's if they even bother to get an L2 charger since a lot of workplaces provide L2 charging with subsidies.

So while some wild alternatives like hydrogen might potentially be the future, it doesn't matter because EV offers a compelling value-proposition right now. L2 charging is not the blocker for most. I didn't even get around to installing a L2 charger until after 3 months of EV ownership.

 

First search result shows half of all homes are built after 1980, as of August 2018. That means that probably by now more than half of homes support L2 charging (for those who just can't survive on L1).

Half of US Homes Built before 1980 | Eye On Housing

The median age of owner-occupied homes is 37 years, according to the latest data from the 2016 American Community Survey. Compared to a median age of 31 years in 2005, the U.S. owner-occupied housing stock is aging gradually. This aging trend is primarily because of modest gains in residential...

eyeonhousing.org

Current data by state, interesting, better not live in NY cause the median is 1960, or MA, PA, RI, or CT

Or worse the big cities where median in 1942 or so like San Francisco, see the list

The Median Age of Homes in the United States by Build Year (Data Study) - Today's Homeowner

Our home service experts analyzed U.S. census data to find the median age of homes in the United States, and grouped the data by state, county and city.

todayshomeowner.com

 

Yeah it's definitely going to take time to penetrate into older cities and neighborhoods. I see the biggest opposition coming from apartment dwellers, who will have the slimmest chance of being able to charge at home.

But that's like all tech. Fiber internet still isn't in most places.

If half of homes support L2 charging though, that's still a very large addressable market.

 

If we can all agree that "EV is not for everyone", so is the gas tax subsidy toward funding EV infra! It's not in the future, all ICE owners are already paying gas tax in some states in the US! The underlying issue is beyond just infra, until EV resolves the battery flaming issue, toxic waste issue.

Some may have assumed people didn't experience with EV before commenting, in fact it's quite the opposite, people have family members who owned EV (now they can't even resale the used one with decent value), rental car with EV (which didn't provide additional versatility other than more range anxiety with potential breakdown). The early adopter phase is done, we're in the reality check phase!

Apart from all the short comings being discussed, EV and power grid are also facing higher risk of cyber security attack when it relies on network infra, and not all Auto makers are willing to invest in cyber security yet.

Electric Vehicles: The Hacking Risks

As the world transitions to electric vehicles, there are numerous risks to consider - not just in the vehicles charging network and elsewhere.

www.cybersecurityintelligence.com

The last thing people want to find out is that they are "not in control" of their own vehicle!

 

If we can all agree that "EV is not for everyone", so is the gas tax subsidy toward funding EV infra! It's not in the future, all ICE owners are already paying gas tax in some states in the US! The underlying issue is beyond just infra, until EV resolves the battery flaming issue, toxic waste issue.

This is the thing. If there is enough EV infra, then EVs can be for everyone. Everyone who is willing. Big If of course.

Next the battery flaming issue is a non-issue:
"According to information from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and EVFireSafe, 1 out of every 1,000 Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles catch fire, where only 1 out of 83,333 EVs catch fire. This is a significant difference."
(Source: Burning Issues: The TRUTH About EV Battery Fires)
The reason people think it is an issue is either because the fire can be much larger and difficult to control, and of course the media and others cluelessly attacking EVs.

Apart from all the short comings being discussed, EV and power grid are also facing higher risk of cyber security attack when it relies on network infra, and not all Auto makers are willing to invest in cyber security yet.

Electric Vehicles: The Hacking Risks

As the world transitions to electric vehicles, there are numerous risks to consider - not just in the vehicles charging network and elsewhere.

www.cybersecurityintelligence.com

The last thing people want to find out is that they are "not in control" of their own vehicle!

Is this any worse than US reliance on gas from OPEC+ and their cartel pricing? Should we get our gas from Russia instead? National security is a big part of the push to EVs. You could argue that decentralized electricity and EV manufacturing is both the cause and solution to mass hacking. Also with all the connected ICE cars, I don't believe ICE is immune from the hacking problem either.

 

You could argue that decentralized electricity and EV manufacturing is both the cause and solution to mass hacking. Also with all the connected ICE cars, I don't believe ICE is immune from the hacking problem either.

ICE does not have same concern for these type of hacks.

Addressing EV Charger Network Connection Security Concerns

With the rising popularity and demand for electric vehicles (EVs), the need to address network connection security in EV infrastructure has become a top priority. As more cities and countries are investing in EV charging stations, ensuring the security of these charging networks is crucial for...

energy5.com

Yes, Your Electric Vehicle Could Potentially Be Hacked

EV charging brings multiple security and privacy risks

spectrum.ieee.org

As the EV charging infrastructure expands, several challenges arise concerning network connection security:

• Unauthorized access: Hackers may attempt to gain unauthorized access to the charging stations, potentially causing disruption to the network and compromising user data.
• Data privacy: EV charging stations collect various data points, such as user ID, charging duration, and energy consumption. Ensuring the privacy of this data is critical to maintaining customer trust.
• Physical security: Ensuring the physical security of the charging stations is essential to prevent vandalism or tampering that could lead to network disruptions.
• Protection against malware and cyber attacks: EV charging stations, like any other connected device, are susceptible to malware and cyber attacks. Safeguarding the infrastructure from these threats is crucial.

Charging infra opens up wider attack vector, when compromised, it's more severe than national security.

 

🥶

 

A definite bummer and such low temperature clearly show where EVs have their limitations. Where I live we have a much narrower temperature range between the highs and lows through a season, I did a quick check on how much KWs I used during the winter compared to summer and it actually surprised me. 257.6KW during the month of July compared to 299.8KW for the month of January, that’s only an increase of approximately 16% but I was told long ago that keeping the cabin temperature lower I set mine at 19 degree and use the seated seat is more efficient than raising the cabin temperature and no heated seat.