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And what do they say about placing batteries in stored airplane luggage? And how's it going for EV fires at sea on shipping carriers? Look, we can pick and choose our sound bites all day long. The only way I'd buy an EV is if I could put in a 220 line. THAT costs money. Place that on top of the cost of the EV and now price that out over the life of average EV ownership (got any data there?). For me personally, it's not worth it yet.

On this note, there was an article showing recently of the new "craze". Two guys in a truck, one bolt cutter. One cuts the EV cables at recharging stations. The other picks them up and tosses them in the back of the truck. They're stripped for the copper. Seen the price of copper recently? All in? Two and a half minutes...

Two years ago a couple of guys from Road & Track (Car & Driver?) decided to drive a Tesla around the outer perimeter of the U.S. Why? I have no clue. They were good until they got up along the northern border states. They wound up driving across the border to be able to recharge their EV. Most of the ones inside the U.S. border while showing operational via Tesla mapping were not. We're not invested in this area as robustly as we could/should/might want to be. The time to recharge an EV MUST be shortened. I don't like hanging out at gas stations more than I have to. Why do I want to sit at the edges of a poorly lit store lot and wait 20+ minutes for a charge? You're asking for trouble of so many kinds and types. Nah. I'll take my chances with my ICE vehicles for a while longer.
Ignorance is bliss.
 
It begins …

Electric-Vehicle Startup Fisker Prepares for Possible Bankruptcy Filing
Company has struggled with growing its sales amid stagnant EV demand in the U.S.

CNBC
And its gone


 
More on PAG investors thinking about the pace of EV expansion

 
Then you'd know early adopters are in for no 'shock' as you have stated. The Ioniq 5 has been doing this for quite some time as well.
Of course the technology exists. If it didn’t, auto makers wouldn’t be able to implement it. The overwhelming majority of EV cars on the road do not include this technology. Now, and this is what’s new, multiple, mainstream auto makers will implement it. It may or may not become the predominate form of EV technology. If it does, the cars that don’t use it will likely become obsolete. EV is an emerging technology. It may be this aspect or some other. I wish early adopters well.
 
Discussion starter · #1,129 ·
Sorry to burst your bubble but there are cars that can already do that. The Ford Lightning is one of them.
Ford has cut Lightning Production . I have a friend who loves his and will outright admit that his household must have ICE cars too . The vehicle is not popular and the F150 is still the truck they want .
 
Discussion starter · #1,130 ·
What's crazy is to keep putting gas in your tank. I have a solar system that has been providing 90-100% of my monthly power consjumption - in AZ. Charging the Macan isn't going to significantly impact that so I'm good.
It's all good for you as long as you never leave your house . I remember when Tesla guy got in my 992 and saw the 531 mile range (extended tank ) . The range envy revealed itself . I got in an. an Uber that was a model Y . I asked the guy if he drives it all ay and he said yes . I asked him what happens if he offer runs out of charge . Does Tesla help ? He got so freaked out on the idea of it . He said " It must never happen ." Gas is cheap and it's everywhere and easy to obtain . EV can never compete with that ,
 
Discussion starter · #1,131 ·
Boy do I have news for you. Better get your ICE vehicle out of your garage pronto.

The issue is the fires themselves . The lithium Ion battery is not simple to extinguish and that led to a sinking cargo ship 2 years ago , Miami fire rescue is a world known fire department but they had to go to special trains to deal with EV;s and the growing concerns about fighting these fires. . At least in Florida its not dry like California where a small stubborn fire can light up the entire region .
There are some real risks with EV but that not my biggest bone to pick with it. The cars themselves suck !! The either have more road noise than. Boxster (Tesla ) or sound like some weird space ship (Porsche ) . Some are no linear in acceleration and regenerative braking is awful . The odd shapes and angles are all geared towards range and it reveals an uglier side of design .
They are heavy and cumbersome and anything but perfect. They evolve faster than an iPhone . It's just total Blech !!!!! It's not even something that developed for driving enthusiasts but rather politicians . With the EU I bet some of those policitans in close door meetings were leaving their cabin footprint by smoking cigarettes while they voted out ICE ,
 
Ford has cut Lightning Production . I have a friend who loves his and will outright admit that his household must have ICE cars too . The vehicle is not popular and the F150 is still the truck they want .
Unfortunately, most manufacturers have to cut production because people aren't buying them. Interest rates are super high and electric vehicles just aren't cheap enough for the mass market. Manufacturers milked it for everything it was worth and may have milked it a little too much. The first generation Lightning was a great first attempt from Ford. Range was limited and if you added any kind of trailer or haul anything, you know what trucks are somewhat used for, then you can forget about it. It doesn't help that charging stations are 1.) a hassle to deal with unless you have a Tesla and 2.) We just don't have enough stations.

The second generation F150 Lightning is around the corner and I'm hoping we see batteries that are more dense come with it. I think Toyota and BMW are working on solid state battery technology. If they're able to scale it to where you have a battery size that gives you 300+ miles of range in a car that's priced in the X3/X5 territory in the premium segment and something like a Highlander on the non-luxury side, then I think we'll start to see massive growth. Solid state batteries will also charge significantly faster bringing charging times down to similar to pumping gas.

Time will tell how this all unfolds and how long it takes. Whatever the future holds, I'm excited. I think this is a monumental technology shift in the automotive industry and I can't wait to see how creative manufacturers get.

From May: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
The issue is the fires themselves . The lithium Ion battery is not simple to extinguish and that led to a sinking cargo ship 2 years ago , Miami fire rescue is a world known fire department but they had to go to special trains to deal with EV;s and the growing concerns about fighting these fires. . At least in Florida its not dry like California where a small stubborn fire can light up the entire region .
There are some real risks with EV but that not my biggest bone to pick with it. The cars themselves suck !! The either have more road noise than. Boxster (Tesla ) or sound like some weird space ship (Porsche ) . Some are no linear in acceleration and regenerative braking is awful . The odd shapes and angles are all geared towards range and it reveals an uglier side of design .
They are heavy and cumbersome and anything but perfect. They evolve faster than an iPhone . It's just total Blech !!!!! It's not even something that developed for driving enthusiasts but rather politicians . With the EU I bet some of those policitans in close door meetings were leaving their cabin footprint by smoking cigarettes while they voted out ICE ,
As someone who loves driving, I see where you are coming from. While the center of gravity is lower, the cars are significantly heavier and that really messes with driving dynamics. The first generation of anything though is going to suck. My hope is that we see batteries become denser as time goes on. I have my fingers crossed that in the next generation, we'll maybe hopefully see electric sports cars that are engaging to drive. I like hearing the sound of electric motors whirr.

In terms of fires, I have also read that battery fires are significantly harder to put out and require significantly more water. My hope is that we see chemistry changes that change this. As technology progresses, we'll see that change as well. It looks like we're figuring out that we can replace lithium in batteries with sodium instead. That would be awesome. Less mining and hopefully, less risk if something were to go wrong like a fire.

.
 
It's all good for you as long as you never leave your house . I remember when Tesla guy got in my 992 and saw the 531 mile range (extended tank ) . The range envy revealed itself . I got in an. an Uber that was a model Y . I asked the guy if he drives it all ay and he said yes . I asked him what happens if he offer runs out of charge . Does Tesla help ? He got so freaked out on the idea of it . He said " It must never happen ." Gas is cheap and it's everywhere and easy to obtain . EV can never compete with that ,
EV's can't compete yet.

Electric vehicles are still very much in the infancy stage. Battery technology is going to progress and if we ever see solid state batteries, then they'll be on par and maybe in some instances, better than the comparable ICE.


Time will tell.
 

TLDR

  • Taycan production cut to one shift
  • Temp employees let go
  • Chinese dont want them “luxury German models that Chinese buyers want are those with combustion engines, not electric powertrains.”
Source

 

TLDR

  • Taycan production cut to one shift
  • Temp employees let go
  • Chinese dont want them “luxury German models that Chinese buyers want are those with combustion engines, not electric powertrains.”
Source

Interesting. I think it’s difficult to know why sale numbers are dropping. The explanation that early adopters already have their car rather than the end of subsidies/incentives sounds a bit like being in denial.
 
Taycan production cut to one shift:

Market niche filled, but big hope for Macan EV sales. My sales rep recently felt comfortable with incoming Macan orders but that could be local area specific here, he thinks.
...plus no BIG further technical breakthrough expected in terms of battery technology, according to recent VDE/Munich Technical University presentation on new developments of "Traction Batteries" I attended. Stony road to usable solid state batteries at all, their presenting professor explained...

Chinese dont want them “luxury German models that Chinese buyers want are those with combustion engines, not electric powertrains.”

EU activated import duties on chinese mass market EVs provisionally now, wonder how German resellers and customers will digest this. Until now, only acruals by importers have to be proven to the authorities but not paid now as I understood, but I remember, even when signing my Macan ICE order in late '22, I had to accept eventual advances in price during the months long waiting period already...this will definitely put question marks on signing an EV order for private persons here.

This, as a consequence, will cause probably counteraction in far east, and for me it is clear which models/automotive technology will be affected primarily...
 
I won't be buying another car without a plug, and I'm actually happy that Porsche will no longer make ICE-only Macans after 2026 because it means that Porsche will put more effort and resources into their EVs and be less splintered. (I do wish that they'd come out with a Macan E-Hybrid to match the Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids that seem to be on the production plans til at least 2030.) I've been debating getting our fourth PHEV (either a used 2021-2023 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2025 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2024/2025 Mercedes GLE 450e) vs. getting our first BEV (either a 2021-2023 Taycan CT4 or a special-order 2025 Macan 4). As such, I've spent a lot of time comparing features and stats and debating them in my mind with the aid of pros-and-cons spreadsheets.

The Macan 4 looks impressive to me, and I like (1) the upgraded 800-volt system (with built-in capability to handle "lesser" DC-fast-charging stations) and the ability to charge faster; (2) the larger battery pack and going well over 300 miles of range on a full charge at 70 mph; (3) the reverting to physical toggle switches for climate controls (as have the new Cayennes and Panameras, going away from the haptic-touch controls of the last few years); (4) ACC and heated steering wheel and ambient lighting and apparently PDLS are now standard; (5) keeping the new drive-mode shifter on the dashboard to the right of the steering wheel and making much more space in the center console (all Porsches appear to be going in this direction for MY 2025).

Things that I don't like in the Macan 4 that differ from getting a new Cayenne E-Hybrid: (1) glass roof is standard (I hate them); (2) no option for an infrared camera; (3) probably no dual sun visors on each side in the front; (4) air suspension standard (something that can and will break eventually, and be very costly outside of warranty); (5) frameless doors (glass exposed when doors are open); (6) poorer color selection; (7) less practical for long road trips (due to current poor public-charging infrastructure).

Where the Macan 4 excels for me over the Cayenne E-Hybrid is that I would spec it much cheaper (by about $20k), not having to worry about catalytic converter theft, not having to go as often (and pay as much) for routine maintenance (Porsche suggests once every 2 years for its BEVs), long-term cost to fuel it would probably be much less, and not going to gas stations at all. The Macan 4 would probably be more fun to drive and dynamically superior in stability at high speeds and in curves than the Cayenne E-Hybrid. And I personally have gotten beyond liking the sounds of any ICE and its exhaust system and the awkward showing of any tail pipes (from behind) on any PHEV.

The big fail for me on the Macan 4 is in its exterior appearance; it looks horrible. I wish that Porsche had tried harder to keep the ICE Macan look on the exterior. The rear of the Macan 4 is especially bad-looking, and I'm confused as to why they made a rear wiper optional (not like having a rear wiper would hurt the horrendous bad rear-end looks!). The separated headlights on the front end (well below and separated from the running lights) on the Macan 4 are also not a good look to me.

I don't like the start/stop button and still prefer to have a slot to insert a key fob and turn it; I don't like keeping a key fob in my pocket while driving and want a place to keep it while driving (and having to insert it and remove it when getting in and leaving). But all Porsches have gone in this direction. Having the recent-years design with a fake-key-insert that you turn to start the ICE was the worst of all, as potential thieves might think you left the key in your car.

Taycan CT4 vs. Macan 4: the new MY2025 Taycans are just too expensive, with corresponding rapid drops in depreciation that are insane. I've looked extensively at used, CPO-warranty 2021-2023 CT4 cars lately, but other owners and dealerships just don't spec them the way that I would, and the battery packs are noticeably smaller than the MY2025 Taycans (with MUCH less range on a full charge). I prefer the exterior Taycan looks to the Macan 4 by a long shot, but the haptic climate controls are a problem. The MY2025 Taycans will have a standard powered charge-port door, which I think is a huge mistake (as many Taycan owners have had problems when their powered charge-port door wouldn't open when they needed to open it), and the Macan 4 comes with manual charge-port door standard. The front doors in the Taycan are also not easy to get into if you have any health issues with hips or knees or backs, either; I am guessing that the Macan 4 doors will be better in that regard.

The worry with buying any BEV now is the rapidly improving tech -- both the warts and recalls with the early-adopter cars and the fact that all these current BEVs will plummet in value as soon as solid-state batteries come on the market in cars (which is likely to happen sometime in the next 3-6 years from what I read); it'll be like a flip cellphone without internet access going to the iPhone -- but in terms of charging speed, range, and safety. For that reason, once I go "full BEV", I'm committing myself to keeping that first BEV for a number of years and not worrying about depreciation.
 
I won't be buying another car without a plug, and I'm actually happy that Porsche will no longer make ICE-only Macans after 2026 because it means that Porsche will put more effort and resources into their EVs and be less splintered. (I do wish that they'd come out with a Macan E-Hybrid to match the Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids that seem to be on the production plans til at least 2030.) I've been debating getting our fourth PHEV (either a used 2021-2023 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2025 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2024/2025 Mercedes GLE 450e) vs. getting our first BEV (either a 2021-2023 Taycan CT4 or a special-order 2025 Macan 4). As such, I've spent a lot of time comparing features and stats and debating them in my mind with the aid of pros-and-cons spreadsheets.

The Macan 4 looks impressive to me, and I like (1) the upgraded 800-volt system (with built-in capability to handle "lesser" DC-fast-charging stations) and the ability to charge faster; (2) the larger battery pack and going well over 300 miles of range on a full charge at 70 mph; (3) the reverting to physical toggle switches for climate controls (as have the new Cayennes and Panameras, going away from the haptic-touch controls of the last few years); (4) ACC and heated steering wheel and ambient lighting and apparently PDLS are now standard; (5) keeping the new drive-mode shifter on the dashboard to the right of the steering wheel and making much more space in the center console (all Porsches appear to be going in this direction for MY 2025).

Things that I don't like in the Macan 4 that differ from getting a new Cayenne E-Hybrid: (1) glass roof is standard (I hate them); (2) no option for an infrared camera; (3) probably no dual sun visors on each side in the front; (4) air suspension standard (something that can and will break eventually, and be very costly outside of warranty); (5) frameless doors (windows exposed when doors are open); (6) poorer color selection; (7) less practical for long road trips (due to current poor public-charging infrastructure).

Where the Macan 4 excels for me over the Cayenne E-Hybrid is that I would spec it much cheaper (by about $20k), not having to worry about catalytic converter theft, not having to go as often (and pay as much) for routine maintenance (Porsche suggests once every 2 years for its BEVs), long-term cost to fuel it would probably be much less, and not going to gas stations at all. The Macan 4 would probably be more fun to drive and dynamically superior in stability at high speeds and in curves than the Cayenne E-Hybrid. And I personally have gotten beyond liking the sounds of any ICE and its exhaust system and the awkward showing of any tail pipes (from behind) on any PHEV.

The big fail for me on the Macan 4 is in its exterior appearance; it looks horrible. I wish that Porsche had tried harder to keep the ICE Macan look on the exterior. The rear of the Macan 4 is especially bad-looking, and I'm confused as to why they made a rear wiper optional (not like having a rear wiper would hurt the horrendous bad rear-end looks!). The separated headlights on the front end (well below and separated from the running lights) on the Macan 4 are also not a good look to me.

I don't like the start/stop button and still prefer to have a slot to insert a key fob and turn it; I don't like keeping a key fob in my pocket while driving and want a place to keep it while driving (and having to insert it and remove it when getting in and leaving). But all Porsches have gone in this direction. Having the recent-years design with a fake-key-insert that you turn to start the ICE was the worst of all, as potential thieves might think you left the key in your car.

Taycan CT4 vs. Macan 4: the new MY2025 Taycans are just too expensive, with corresponding rapid drops in depreciation that are insane. I've looked extensively at used, CPO-warranty 2021-2023 CT4 cars lately, but other owners and dealerships just don't spec them the way that I would, and the battery packs are noticeably smaller than the MY2025 Taycans (with MUCH less range on a full charge). I prefer the exterior Taycan looks to the Macan 4 by a long shot, but the haptic climate controls are a problem. The MY2025 Taycans will have a standard powered charge-port door, which I think is a huge mistake (as many Taycan owners have had problems when their powered charge-port door wouldn't open when they needed to open it), and the Macan 4 comes with manual charge-port door standard. The front doors in the Taycan are also not easy to get into if you have any health issues with hips or knees or backs, either; I am guessing that the Macan 4 doors will be better in that regard.

The worry with buying any BEV now is the rapidly improving tech -- both the warts and recalls with the early-adopter cars and the fact that all these current BEVs will plummet in value as soon as solid-state batteries come on the market in cars (which is likely to happen sometime in the next 3-6 years from what I read); it'll be like a flip cellphone without internet access going to the iPhone -- but in terms of charging speed, range, and safety. For that reason, once I go "full BEV", I'm committing myself to keeping that first BEV for a number of years and not worrying about depreciation.
I too would like to see a Macan hybrid. The charging infrastructure is not adequate here yet, and there are long distances between places we travel, so all electric is not an option.
 
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