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@sergeyb maybe you can speak to some of this with your Taycan
@ericsan13 the 15 Amp charging bit below might be of great interest below because it EXPLICTLY recommended by Porsche, in a TSB, for emergency use only

I'm been doing some reading and if anyone is interested in the EV Macan, you might want to do some research cause I learned a bit about the Taycan charging issues below

Good discussion on what's needed. I totally agree with this guy and said this earlier in this thread, if you believe in an electric future, you aint going to have one EV so if you got to upgrade, then plan for ALL your cars as EV. You don't want that electrician coming out twice.


Scary, dont buy cheap stuff, get industrial quality everything. There is a LOT of power flowing.


His companion pieces, all good reads and a ton of information in here



So it appears the Porsche chargers had issue, wires not thick enough, and they aint cheap. This resulting in a class action suit? But the good stuff is in the Porsche TSBs at the NHTSA site that the original threads reference

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf and

They recommend getting industrial strength plugs. Those Hubbell plugs are $135 on Amazon. and this bit

The “domestic” (125V) supply cable is provided for emergency use only, and should not be used by customers for daily home charging.

110V Charging is for emergency use only. The relatively high current (8A to 10A) loads household circuits and receptacles for an extremely long time with minimal charge gain.


The thread author goes into why and I agree 100%. I believe the code is something like if a circuit is on for 3 hours the draw can't be more than 80%, hence the 50 amp circuit for a 40 amp draw. A residential 15 amp plug cost >$6 at Home Depot. The point seems to be it can't handle the load, day in, day out for a measly 30 miles or so of range. Both PCNA and the author got a point.

Think about what draws power in your house. You got any 15 amp circuits pulling 12 amps for 12 hours/day? Any? The only thing I can think of is an electric furnace and that's not a plug but hardwired. Otherwise, nothing.

For anyone interested, those are good reads with WAY too much detail for my brain. And that's a problem. There are far too many chargers, far too many plugs, far too many types of circuits, and far too many headaches with everyone having a different issue from the easy, low hanging fruit, to service upgrades 😞 involving trenching and far, far more complicated. And think of the future, not just today. This is not ready for prime time. Using the Tesla standard is a start but they got a LONG way to go. And that class action lawsuit would seem to indicate something was rushed?
 
@sergeyb maybe you can speak to some of this with your Taycan
@ericsan13 the 15 Amp charging bit below might be of great interest below because it EXPLICTLY recommended by Porsche, in a TSB, for emergency use only

I'm been doing some reading and if anyone is interested in the EV Macan, you might want to do some research cause I learned a bit about the Taycan charging issues below

Good discussion on what's needed. I totally agree with this guy and said this earlier in this thread, if you believe in an electric future, you aint going to have one EV so if you got to upgrade, then plan for ALL your cars as EV. You don't want that electrician coming out twice.


Scary, dont buy cheap stuff, get industrial quality everything. There is a LOT of power flowing.


His companion pieces, all good reads and a ton of information in here



So it appears the Porsche chargers had issue, wires not thick enough, and they aint cheap. This resulting in a class action suit? But the good stuff is in the Porsche TSBs at the NHTSA site that the original threads reference

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf and

They recommend getting industrial strength plugs. Those Hubbell plugs are $135 on Amazon. and this bit

The “domestic” (125V) supply cable is provided for emergency use only, and should not be used by customers for daily home charging.

110V Charging is for emergency use only. The relatively high current (8A to 10A) loads household circuits and receptacles for an extremely long time with minimal charge gain.


The thread author goes into why and I agree 100%. I believe the code is something like if a circuit is on for 3 hours the draw can't be more than 80%, hence the 50 amp circuit for a 40 amp draw. A residential 15 amp plug cost >$6 at Home Depot. The point seems to be it can't handle the load, day in, day out for a measly 30 miles or so of range. Both PCNA and the author got a point.

Think about what draws power in your house. You got any 15 amp circuits pulling 12 amps for 12 hours/day? Any? The only thing I can think of is an electric furnace and that's not a plug but hardwired. Otherwise, nothing.

For anyone interested, those are good reads with WAY too much detail for my brain. And that's a problem. There are far too many chargers, far too many plugs, far too many types of circuits, and far too many headaches with everyone having a different issue from the easy, low hanging fruit, to service upgrades 😞 involving trenching and far, far more complicated. And think of the future, not just today. This is not ready for prime time. Using the Tesla standard is a start but they got a LONG way to go. And that class action lawsuit would seem to indicate something was rushed?
Maybe those who are not interested in the Macan EV can leave the rest of us here alone? We've seen enough comments that are just EV bashing or cherry picking bad advice to make a point that is irrelevant and all this noise makes this forum pretty much useless. I for one am done here, thanks.
 
@grim, I am happy to speak to all of the above, with a short answer is to just make it simple, which is what I did with none of the issues above apply to me, which is what I would recommend as ideal state to any prospective Macan EV owner, and I am happy to answer any questions regarding the lingo and charging measures.

Home Electrical Panel: 60Amp circuit needed as output to the EVSE (car charger)
EVSE: Accepts 60Amp input and per code gives 50Amp (80%) output to the car.
EVSE: Simplest way is direct and immediately next to the Home Electrical panel
EVSE: Most have 25ft cord that is enough to reach any 2 cars in a 2-car garage.
Car side: 11kW standard on-board charger needs 50Amp input.
Car side: 19.2kW optional which has limited use requiring 100Amp house circuit.
Charging: Plug the cord into the car in the evening and it charges while you sleep to recommended 85% for daily use.

Home Electrical Panel > EVSE > 25ft cord to the car as shown below.
Zero issues in 8 months and 5k miles.
Point: No need to complicate with Hubble circuits and Porsche provided cords.


Image
 
@grim, I am happy to speak to all of the above, with a short answer is to just make it simple, which is what I did with none of the issues above apply to me, which is what I would recommend as ideal state to any prospective Macan EV owner, and I am happy to answer any questions regarding the lingo and charging measures.

Home Electrical Panel: 60Amp circuit needed as output to the EVSE (car charger)
EVSE: Accepts 60Amp input and per code gives 50Amp (80%) output to the car.
EVSE: Simplest way is direct and immediately next to the Home Electrical panel
EVSE: Most have 25ft cord that is enough to reach any 2 cars in a 2-car garage.
Car side: 11kW standard on-board charger needs 50Amp input.
Car side: 19.2kW optional which has limited use requiring 100Amp house circuit.
Charging: Plug the cord into the car in the evening and it charges while you sleep to recommended 85% for daily use.

Home Electrical Panel > EVSE > 25ft cord to the car as shown below.
Zero issues in 8 months and 5k miles.
Point: No need to complicate with Hubble circuits and Porsche provided cords.
View attachment 281480
Thanks @sergeyb for the explanation 👍
 
@sergeyb maybe you can speak to some of this with your Taycan
@ericsan13 the 15 Amp charging bit below might be of great interest below because it EXPLICTLY recommended by Porsche, in a TSB, for emergency use only

I'm been doing some reading and if anyone is interested in the EV Macan, you might want to do some research cause I learned a bit about the Taycan charging issues below

Good discussion on what's needed. I totally agree with this guy and said this earlier in this thread, if you believe in an electric future, you aint going to have one EV so if you got to upgrade, then plan for ALL your cars as EV. You don't want that electrician coming out twice.


Scary, dont buy cheap stuff, get industrial quality everything. There is a LOT of power flowing.


His companion pieces, all good reads and a ton of information in here



So it appears the Porsche chargers had issue, wires not thick enough, and they aint cheap. This resulting in a class action suit? But the good stuff is in the Porsche TSBs at the NHTSA site that the original threads reference

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf and

They recommend getting industrial strength plugs. Those Hubbell plugs are $135 on Amazon. and this bit

The “domestic” (125V) supply cable is provided for emergency use only, and should not be used by customers for daily home charging.

110V Charging is for emergency use only. The relatively high current (8A to 10A) loads household circuits and receptacles for an extremely long time with minimal charge gain.


The thread author goes into why and I agree 100%. I believe the code is something like if a circuit is on for 3 hours the draw can't be more than 80%, hence the 50 amp circuit for a 40 amp draw. A residential 15 amp plug cost >$6 at Home Depot. The point seems to be it can't handle the load, day in, day out for a measly 30 miles or so of range. Both PCNA and the author got a point.

Think about what draws power in your house. You got any 15 amp circuits pulling 12 amps for 12 hours/day? Any? The only thing I can think of is an electric furnace and that's not a plug but hardwired. Otherwise, nothing.

For anyone interested, those are good reads with WAY too much detail for my brain. And that's a problem. There are far too many chargers, far too many plugs, far too many types of circuits, and far too many headaches with everyone having a different issue from the easy, low hanging fruit, to service upgrades 😞 involving trenching and far, far more complicated. And think of the future, not just today. This is not ready for prime time. Using the Tesla standard is a start but they got a LONG way to go. And that class action lawsuit would seem to indicate something was rushed?
It may depend on your house wiring, but I have a newer house from a reputable builder. But what I have seen from nearly all the houses I've been in is that they have 15A breakers (1800W max, same as a hair dryer). A load of 12A (1500W) is within the 20% safety margin needed to run a continuously with the right wiring. Interesting what Porsche says about not using the 110V charging though...I wonder if it's because the chargers they supplied are as bad as their official L2 charger.

Most people just get a tesla, juicebox, or chargepoint charger and hard-wire it in. Get something tried and true, no need for an overpriced branded charger. Avoid plugs unless you already have one.

I also asked my FIL who is a commercial electrician and he didn't see any issue using the L1 charger all day, every day. But do your own research for your own circumstances.

Edit: I agree with sergeyb. I have a 60A non-GFCI (recommended by Chargepoint) breaker for the 48A charger. There's that 20% safety margin again. I had 4AWG copper wire put in for future proofing but it was unnecessary. I believe you can get away with 6AWG cabling but don't quote me on that. Put the L2 charger on the same side of the garage or you'll need even thicker cables. Your electrician installs these all day every day and will know what to do.
 
I see many 986s driving around, few 987, 981, or 718. I've repeated many times about TCO and how nobody is going to take a $25K Macan in to a dealer AND the cost of parts only goes up to repair making ownership of an old Macan very difficult without deep pockets. I'm surprised anyone is buying 2015 Macans if they knew how much a new LED headlight cost to repair.

There is going to be some sticker shocked people thinking. "Hey, I just bought a new Porsche for $25K" only to find $4000/$5000 major service bills.

Its one thing to buy a sports car as a toy, drive it, love it, and keep it for a decade as a hobby. Its another thing to do the same for a DD you depend upon to get to work.
I bought a 2015 Macan, knowing exactly how much it can cost. It’s still cheaper than my ‘06 M5 to maintain.
 
Discussion starter · #1,072 ·
Yes, hybrid may make more sense instead of going cold turkey.

Toyota was right about hybrid cars all along
Not all hybrids are alike though . Many drive like a giant Prius . BMW did a good Jon with the X3M40 but is their step before going plug in like Porsche . The hybrid Cayenne does require a minimal of once a month charging for Porsche won't honor the warranty . Even worse is that all hybrids of kept long term will need to replace the battery at some point .

Ice Ice Baby !!
 
Probably his shareholders will again show him his limits, but the spirit is of course most welcome. Again he focuses on what BEVs can do best, which is acceleration. Looks like he wants to beat the new Taycan specs.
 
Yes, hybrid may make more sense instead of going cold turkey.

Toyota was right about hybrid cars all along
Would much preferred pure ICE instead of hybrid as there are battery weight and replacement concern. It's counter intuitive to maintain two systems when one energy source needs to power another due to the added weight to the vehicle itself that can be prevented in the first place.
 
It begins …

Electric-Vehicle Startup Fisker Prepares for Possible Bankruptcy Filing
Company has struggled with growing its sales amid stagnant EV demand in the U.S.

CNBC



After significant interest from early EV adopters … the automotive industry … overestimated the willingness of consumers to adopt a new technology … The adoption curve of EVs rapidly went through first adopters and some “EV curious” consumers, but has been a tougher sell with mainstream buyers.

and it gets worse

EV Charge Station Maker Charge Enterprises Files Bankruptcy
 
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