[grim]

The administration plans to publish the final rule by early spring."

This is entirely political and any "regulation" waived with a stroke of the pen by future administrations. This is NOT law that is difficult to change but a "regulation" created by executive agencies.

Lets leave this discussion off the table as it is political in nature

thanks

 

[GMPNW]

This is entirely political and any "regulation" waived with a stroke of the pen by future administrations. This is NOT law that is difficult to change but a "regulation" created by executive agencies.

Lets leave this discussion off the table as it is political in nature

thanks

Then why did you get to comment on this and no one else? Shouldn't you delete your own comment according to your own rules?

 

[Mii]

Our family also loved the way Taycan (1st gen) looked when it first came out, it may have been in our garage if it offered the ICE edition. After reviewing more design and look on Macan EV, not sure why headlight cluster had to be in the middle of front bumper instead of top light cluster?

The weight on each new model is getting heavier, not efficient for range, not safe when it hits the guardrails.

The weight gain is also not helping the infra! Creating more road damage according to the study!

 

[grim]

Then why did you get to comment on this and no one else? Shouldn't you delete your own comment according to your own rules?

If I didnt explain ”why” this is off the table, people would start arguing about it. What is the process for promulgating regs? The NYT didnt even cite the fed register. They explained nothing but political reasoning. I suggest rereading all our community standards. No Politics is a zero tolerance policy. That why.

 

[yrralis1]

Our family also loved the way Taycan (1st gen) looked when it first came out, it may have been in our garage if it offered the ICE edition. After reviewing more design and look on Macan EV, not sure why headlight cluster had to be in the middle of front bumper instead of top light cluster?

The weight on each new model is getting heavier, not efficient for range, not safe when it hits the guardrails.

The weight gain is also not helping the infra! Creating more road damage according to the study!

Videos are starting to surface about how great the are on the track . (Pro EV propaganda ) . The tire and brake wear along with road maintenance are of course not even mentioned . I dont doubt that Porsche defied physics to create decent hop laps .

PCA is on top of it . I read nothing about them eager to host regular DE and in fact made a point back in November to mention that the 911 will be the last shoe to fall. Porsche and EVs: What we know so far | PCA Tech Tips | Porsche Club of America

 

[rcomeau]

Videos are starting to surface about how great the are on the track . (Pro EV propaganda ) . The tire and brake wear along with road maintenance are of course not even mentioned . I dont doubt that Porsche defied physics to create decent hop laps .

PCA is on top of it . I read nothing about them eager to host regular DE and in fact made a point back in November to mention that the 911 will be the last shoe to fall. Porsche and EVs: What we know so far | PCA Tech Tips | Porsche Club of America

What's the difference road maintenance-wise for a 5000lb EV and a 5000lb ICE SUV? An Escalade weighs 400lb more than the Macan EV and I have not noticed the Macan ICE forum members complaining about the Escalades tearing up the roads. Tire wear is mentioned a lot in EV forums and tire companies are and already have developed new tires to address the weight issues. Finally, brake wear on EVs are consistently lower than wear on ICE cars thanks to regenerative breaking.

I started looking at this forum hoping to connect with people looking at the Macan EV to help my my purchase decision. I have contributed to other forums over the years (I-Pace now, Lexus RX and Hybrid driving) and have never seen such animosity towards those genuinely interested in Macan EV. It has been like going back in time to rehash old arguments and countering incorrect information that were debunked years ago. If I were to post to a Macan ICE thread about a timing chain repair and were to say "well, had you had an EV instead, you'd have no timing chain to worry about", I"d get banned immediately yet anti-EV people are allowed to disrupt these threads without issue. Maybe things will change in a few years, but in the meantime, thanks for the information on this forum. If and when I get a Macan EV (so I am a lurker at this point), I may poke my nose again here, but in the meantime I'll take a step back.

 

[yrralis1]

What's the difference road maintenance-wise for a 5000lb EV and a 5000lb ICE SUV? An Escalade weighs 400lb more than the Macan EV and I have not noticed the Macan ICE forum members complaining about the Escalades tearing up the roads. Tire wear is mentioned a lot in EV forums and tire companies are and already have developed new tires to address the weight issues. Finally, brake wear on EVs are consistently lower than wear on ICE cars thanks to regenerative breaking.

I started looking at this forum hoping to connect with people looking at the Macan EV to help my my purchase decision. I have contributed to other forums over the years (I-Pace now, Lexus RX and Hybrid driving) and have never seen such animosity towards those genuinely interested in Macan EV. It has been like going back in time to rehash old arguments and countering incorrect information that were debunked years ago. If I were to post to a Macan ICE thread about a timing chain repair and were to say "well, had you had an EV instead, you'd have no timing chain to worry about", I"d get banned immediately yet anti-EV people are allowed to disrupt these threads without issue. Maybe things will change in a few years, but in the meantime, thanks for the information on this forum. If and when I get a Macan EV (so I am a lurker at this point), I may poke my nose again here, but in the meantime I'll take a step back.

The Macan GTS is 4400 lbs . The EV car 5395 lbs. Thats 1000 pounds !! Porsche made a Carrera T waving the victory flag over 100 pound weight saving . GT cars are light. Weight matters .

I think the timing chain sucks . None of my posts suggest buying a first gen Macan . They were great in their time but that time has past . The current Macan is an amazing car but is screaming for a redesign , The ONLY thing preventing is the EV legislation in Europe and I dont live there .

If you look at my thread on Rennlist in the EV section I simply asked about the weight ., I asked why no one talks about it . I feel its a reasonable question . Instead I got attacked , was called a troll, had every off topic idea thrown at me instead of what I requested , and am forbidden from accessing that section . I was met with one individual and a group of cheerleaders around him who refused to even address the topic . They have now returned to a homogenized state of boredom .

You are not facing that here . If you post a critique on. an EV you might get replies . Most who dont like them have grown towards avoiding the thread .

 

[grim]

What's the difference road maintenance-wise for a 5000lb EV and a 5000lb ICE SUV? An Escalade weighs 400lb more than the Macan EV and I have not noticed the Macan ICE forum members complaining about the Escalades tearing up the roads.

Its not about the tiny pittance of Macans on US roads but the end game. There are ~280,000,000 registered vehicles on the road in the US. If they are all increased by 25% in weight as the Macan has been, who is going to pay for the damage to the US road systems? Why is that never discussed?

... have never seen such animosity towards those genuinely interested in Macan EV.

I think you are reading the room wrong. Porsche builds sports cars. Everything is derived from 911 "DNA". Its all about racing from James Dean's haunted 550 to the latest 919 or whatever the latest racing versions might be. At least from observing here, an enthusiasts forum, who were the Macan buyers? Three main groups: previous owners in the marque, those that wanted a CUV that served as a sports sedan, and last those moving up in the price bracket from the Japanese luxury market (e.g., Acura, Lexus). Why? Fundamentally, I believe its all about the foundation in racing. Nobody puts a poster of an electric car on their bedroom wall and dreams "One day I will own that electric car". Its not inspirational tied to their heritage.

I do not believe it to be animosity to "people". If so, it would be a direct violation of our community standards. But moreso toward the lack of choice from the company known for racing. In the end, people will decide with their wallets. They will buy them or walk away. Surely they know this

Will The All-New 2025 Porsche Macan Succeed As An EV?

Unlike every Porsche Macan on the road for the past decade, its all-new replacement will be 100 percent combustion-free — Porsche is making the new 2025 Macan electric.

www.forbes.com

"... as driving enthusiasts still haven’t fully embraced any pure-electric vehicles, Porsche’s greatest challenge is to look outside its traditional customer base to fill the void."

Look at the launch, in Singapore, with female presenters. Who was the target audience? Where was the Macan launched? At the LA auto show with Maria Sharipova and a race car driver as presenters. Who was the target audience? Different vehicles, different geographic locations, different target demographics. Theres a word for getting these sales from other marques, conquest sales AKA get people from different marques to switch marques.

Automotive Conquest Marketers View People As Prey To Be Captured

Established car companies and their dealers still see new customers as “conquests.” We are prey waiting to be conquered. However, excessive emphasis on Conquest Cash to capture customers is marketing poison that degrades brand reputation.

www.forbes.com

its about choice.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

Re: the incredible mass of EVs

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room associated with these heavyweight vehicles that has to do with
physics and collisions. The heavier vehicle always "wins". With an EV one had better hope that, as a result of the collision,
the battery doesn't decide to combust and fuel itself. That aside, one wouldn't want to be riding in a 3200 lb. vehicle
when it collides with a 5500 lb. vehicle!


YMMV...

 

[rcomeau]

Well I see your point about weight. I guess we should scrap this whole EV thing then….
OR
We scrap the portion of the gas tax that is supposed to go to road maintenance. Instead, we introduce a fee as part of the vehicle registration. It can be tied to mileage (so heavy drivers pay more for using roads more) as well as weight (so heavier vehicles, regardless of how they are propelled pay their share). We can also add driving style since heave acceleration, cornering and braking are harder on the roads.

Problem solved.

 

[rcomeau]

Re: the incredible mass of EVs

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room associated with these heavyweight vehicles that has to do with
physics and collisions. The heavier vehicle always "wins". With an EV one had better hope that, as a result of the collision,
the battery doesn't decide to combust and fuel itself. That aside, one wouldn't want to be riding in a 3200 lb. vehicle
when it collides with a 5500 lb. vehicle!


YMMV...

Well, if they want to ban heavy EVs, then they should also ban heavy everything. Escalades, pickups etc… OR, have safety standards that protect the occupants given the expected accidents that might occur. Wait. They have this already? Hurrah!

 

[rcomeau]

Its not about the tiny pittance of Macans on US roads but the end game. There are ~280,000,000 registered vehicles on the road in the US. If they are all increased by 25% in weight as the Macan has been, who is going to pay for the damage to the US road systems? Why is that never discussed?



I think you are reading the room wrong. Porsche builds sports cars. Everything is derived from 911 "DNA". Its all about racing from James Dean's haunted 550 to the latest 919 or whatever the latest racing versions might be. At least from observing here, an enthusiasts forum, who were the Macan buyers? Three main groups: previous owners in the marque, those that wanted a CUV that served as a sports sedan, and last those moving up in the price bracket from the Japanese luxury market (e.g., Acura, Lexus). Why? Fundamentally, I believe its all about the foundation in racing. Nobody puts a poster of an electric car on their bedroom wall and dreams "One day I will own that electric car". Its not inspirational tied to their heritage.

I do not believe it to be animosity to "people". If so, it would be a direct violation of our community standards. But moreso toward the lack of choice from the company known for racing. In the end, people will decide with their wallets. They will buy them or walk away. Surely they know this

Will The All-New 2025 Porsche Macan Succeed As An EV?

Unlike every Porsche Macan on the road for the past decade, its all-new replacement will be 100 percent combustion-free — Porsche is making the new 2025 Macan electric.

www.forbes.com

"... as driving enthusiasts still haven’t fully embraced any pure-electric vehicles, Porsche’s greatest challenge is to look outside its traditional customer base to fill the void."

Look at the launch, in Singapore, with female presenters. Who was the target audience? Where was the Macan launched? At the LA auto show with Maria Sharipova and a race car driver as presenters. Who was the target audience? Different vehicles, different geographic locations, different target demographics. Theres a word for getting these sales from other marques, conquest sales AKA get people from different marques to switch marques.

Automotive Conquest Marketers View People As Prey To Be Captured

Established car companies and their dealers still see new customers as “conquests.” We are prey waiting to be conquered. However, excessive emphasis on Conquest Cash to capture customers is marketing poison that degrades brand reputation.

www.forbes.com

its about choice.

Porsche is more than happy to take the money from all those LA soccer moms and us wimpy men who want a sporty SUV to lug their pansy kayaks and work cargo around. Yeah, we should stay off the real Porsche forums though.

 

[grim]

Porsche is more than happy to take the money from all those LA soccer moms and us wimpy men who want a sporty SUV to lug their pansy kayaks and work cargo around. Yeah, we should stay off the real Porsche forums though.

Did you just skip the most important part?

I do not believe it to be animosity to "people". If so, it would be a direct violation of our community standards. But moreso toward the lack of choice from the company known for racing.

 

[grim]

OR, have safety standards that protect the occupants given the expected accidents that might occur. Wait. They have this already? Hurrah!

And yet fatalities per VMT in the US continue to rise, ⬆ after a 2014 low hmmm.

Why has the NSTB warned the US public about this issue? Physics 101, F=MA

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/11/1148483758/ntsb-heavy-electric-vehicles-safety-risks

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a42486843/ntsb-heavy-electric-cars-trucks-suvs-safety/

"The Ford F-150 Lightning is between 2000 and 3000 pounds heavier than the non-electric version," Homendy said. "The (Ford) Mustang Mach-E, Volvo XC40 EV, and (Toyota) RAV4 EV are all roughly 33% heavier. That has a significant impact on safety for all road users."

 

[yrralis1]

Well, if they want to ban heavy EVs, then they should also ban heavy everything. Escalades, pickups etc… OR, have safety standards that protect the occupants given the expected accidents that might occur. Wait. They have this already? Hurrah!

The Escalades and Pickup trucks would also gain weight and become even heavier . The Tesla truck is just shy of 7000 pounds . My post on Rennlist wanted to discuss how to call it a "sport" CUV when weight gain goes contrary to 'sport" . It doesnt matter that they can turn in hot lap ,. Porsches are known for agility as well as track longevity . There are Gt cars with 25K track miles but you wont find that in a GtR or Lambo despite the napkin racing talking points . You will NEVER see it in EV !!!! Porsche will do that one hot halo lap for the media . Thats PCA doesnt even know what to say.

Plus we all have watched Porsche build these last ICE cars with their hands tied behind their backs , They weren't allowed to go where they could have . Look at a car like the Tesla Plaid . Do you think it should even be street legal ? Its flimsy , brakes sucks , and cant handle the power but its all ok because its EV .

Even on Rennlist EV is a small section where the majority on the rest of the forum are giving it the hard "no" .

What is the appeal ? You haven't driven it. It is more expensive . There are known issues with fire and even the Taycan has yet to have long term out of warranty maintenance info . You think a timing chain of a first gen Macan is bad ? EV wlll knock that out of the park . So its a modern design and a little faster to 60 and thats all it takes to drop 130K ? Or is it because its a novelty ? Or to present the image of caring for the environment ?

This car makes a lot of sense to Porsche because they are stuck with having to do it . To some extent they are a victim , They had a lot of money to fight this so its their problem without me (and other guys like me) who bought a pile of Porsches .

 

[yrralis1]

@rcomeau - At least we can discuss our differences . You didnt get called a troll or get banned . I even wish you wil with the car . Rennlist allows me to post in every other section EXCEPT EV and I dont want to at this point. They deserve the EV Macan . Especially that guy with the long signature boasting he's a cup car track hero .. yada yada . To me he's words on a page of nothingness !!!!!

I went there because early on this thread I someone felt like a minority so I went there as a minority . I still had the same questions !! They were ready to talk about anything ELSE except the topic .

 

[grim]

Whats the study show?

The costs of lives lost by F=MA rivals the benefit of CO2 reduction?

Make electric vehicles lighter to maximize climate and safety benefits

Tax heavy cars and shrink batteries to consolidate the gains from electrifying transport.

www.nature.com

 

[grim]

And it gets worse. Just as houses were never intended to take the electric loads of car chargers, the roads were never designed to haul these battery cars

Weight matters, not only in saving the lives of pedestrians but in holistic costs.

EVs Are Too Heavy for Current Road Weight Limits, Car Haulers Say

Per a standard set in 1975, haulers are restricted to 80,000 pounds gross vehicle weight. The industry wants that upped to 88,000 pounds.

www.thedrive.com

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-sales-grow-battle-over-road-weight-limits-heats-up-2022-10-05/

 

[reguy]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/heavy-evs-could-collapse-old-parking-garages-

Heavy electric vehicles could put pressure on parking garages, experts warn

 

[GMPNW]

Everything is a tradeoff, right? If it's relevant to point out the implications of an EVs weight, which it is, then surely it's relevant to point out the implications of an ICE engine: pollution, heat, noise, wearing parts, routine maintenance, etc. On balance, which is better? You decide. In this thread some people want to talk about wear and tear on parking garages, whereas in the larger world people are talking about a much larger problem, which apparently is off limits here, but which certainly has bearing. No honest discussion of the merits and demerits of each technology is possible unless all the facts can be presented.

That said, I think it's great to have a rants thread like this. I just wish the rants were limited to this thread and didn't bleed over to discussions about the Macan EV itself, for those of us who are already aware of what the Macan EV weighs and just want to discuss its features. I don't intrude on threads related to ICE Macans (of which I own one) to protest, "But what about emissions!", so I wish the EV opponents would show the same consideration.