[grim]

I know you are using NOBODY as an exaggeration, but let me offer a counter-perspective on this.

OK, I'll bite. Remember I have repeatedly said I got no issue with an about town runabout, which is basically how you use it. My issue is sunk costs to allow that to happen, which I aint going to pay to anymore than if they told me to build a gas station. So ...

Would you worry about range if you left the house with 240-300 miles of range every day? Yes, 'NOTHING is free' and everything has a cost, but that includes time getting gas too.

I get you like charging at home and like I said, I would have no real issue with that. However 15 years I've about plugged in my Porsches everytime they are parked (to avoid the battery dying). And its is a MAJOR PAIN. It's OLD. I'm sick of it. There's that. I've looked forward to the time to NOT plug anything in, like the other 278,000,000 car owners who dont worry about their battery dying.

I did some math based on my driving history which I tracked on my road-trip car hybrid SUV (19,920 miles, 804 gallons, averaging 24.8MPG) pre-covid. In the three years between 2018 to 2020, I filled my tank 81 times. Let's say 10 minutes per trip, for a total of 13.5 hours. Note that if it were the Macan I'd be making a lot more trips to the pump.

I got records too. And did the math on one car. So compare the time you spent charging on the road to the comparable time getting gas. I counted 44 x 5 mins = 220 mins or 3.6 hours. How many hours would be that waiting at chargers, that is, if they are not broken???

1. I dont need some app to tell me where a gas station is. They are everywhere.
2. I dont need to worry about running out of gas anywhere East of the Mississippi. You can't throw a rock and not hit a gas station, sometimes four on the same corner
3. When "on the road", I am NOT going to sit and wait more than 5 minutes for anything. I got places to go, people to see, and things to do.
4. I do not have any desire to sit and Eat at the Jersey Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer Rest Area to sample their delicacies or to avoid the scammers in the parking lot. etc etc etc

So Im not seeing the point. Sure, charge at home, a pain cause you gotta remember to plug it in and I've been doing that religiously for the last 15 years anyway. But a major pain on the road. Compare apples to apples. I got no issue with about town runabouts.

And its no effort to drive to a gas station. Since they are everywhere, they are in "on the way" home or to wherever I go.

 

[yrralis1]

OK, I'll bite. Remember I have repeatedly said I got no issue with an about town runabout, which is basically how you use it. My issue is sunk costs to allow that to happen, which I aint going to pay to anymore than if they told me to build a gas station. So ...



I get you like charging at home and like I said, I would have no real issue with that. However 15 years I've about plugged in my Porsches everytime they are parked (to avoid the battery dying). And its is a MAJOR PAIN. It's OLD. I'm sick of it. There's that. I've looked forward to the time to NOT plug anything in, like the other 278,000,000 car owners who dont worry about their battery dying.



I got records too. And did the math on one car. So compare the time you spent charging on the road to the comparable time getting gas. I counted 44 x 5 mins = 220 mins or 3.6 hours. How many hours would be that waiting at chargers, that is, if they are not broken???

1. I dont need some app to tell me where a gas station is. They are everywhere.
2. I dont need to worry about running out of gas anywhere East of the Mississippi. You can't throw a rock and not hit a gas station, sometimes four on the same corner
3. When "on the road", I am NOT going to sit and wait more than 5 minutes for anything. I got places to go, people to see, and things to do.
4. I do not have any desire to sit and Eat at the Jersey Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer Rest Area to sample their delicacies or to avoid the scammers in the parking lot. etc etc etc

So Im not seeing the point. Sure, charge at home, a pain cause you gotta remember to plug it in and I've been doing that religiously for the last 15 years anyway. But a major pain on the road. Compare apples to apples. I got no issue with about town runabouts.

And its no effort to drive to a gas station. Since they are everywhere, they are in "on the way" home or to wherever I go.

You remember the time I ran out of gas ? I was driving and completely unknowing some news came out of Cuba that sparked a full scale protest in just about every street in Miami . I was stuck for hours . I even had to park and use. restroom at a supermarket only to get back in. traffic . People were on. every street and even b locked the highway walking into it . I was on 1/8 of a tank . I finally made it close before the car died . I got out and could not budge it . I was in the worst spot and suddenly I hear a voice "can I help" . I turn around and a guy 1/3 my age and huge helped push my car a few blocks and I GOT GAS !!!!

Had this been an EV it would have been toast . Even tow trucks were paralyzed ,

 

[AVM]

It seems this whole thread has decayed down to people trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV

Not much of a discussion at this point. Just tip-toeing around words and topics . . . thread will be a hundred pages long and nothing will change

I will resort back to the ICE topics and leave you gents to hash out the EV agenda

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

AVM

 

[ericsan13]

That's an interesting calculation. I think to make the comparison more complete, one would need to factor in the cost difference of each type of vehicle, and also consider the cost of insurance and maintenance of each type and the amount spent to purchase and install home charging equipment. Also, and this one would be difficult to calculate is to what degree the average cost per mile of each type changes over time. EVs apparently become less efficient over time, more so than ice. Again, it's an interesting comparison simply from a financial perspective, and putting aside all of the intangible factors which will obviously differ for each person.

Glad you enjoyed my analysis. I was primarily showing how time can be saved with EV and cost was a lower concern. More important to me is the actual product I am paying for. Is it a better car or not?

If you want to check out a full cost calculation, this was the closest thing I could find:

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

Of course, even this analysis is flawed because it's not like a F150 and F150 Lightning are directly comparable. The EV version will give you a frunk, larger touchscreen, is faster, has a lower center of gravity, etc. Hard to factor in these intangibles.

 

[grim]

You remember the time I ran out of gas ?

When people talk range anxiety, Im not so sure is about "planning" for a trip but more about S**** happens, like getting stuck in traffic. I'm sure there are many people stuck in snowstorms who ran out of gas. I've seen cars run out of gas all the time and AAA comes out with a can of gas. Whats the EV going to do, bring a battery truck? People are people and will not plan no matter how many times you tell them. And some things its difficult to judge if it never happened to you before. But if on the open road, there is no excuse for poor planning.

I've learned, while out on the open road, to never get below a quarter tank. Tank measurements are not linear. If the tank is 20 gallons, a 1/4 tank does not mean 5 gallons left.

Ive traveled tens of thousands of miles on interstates and US Highway in the boondocks and learned stuff happens all the time so have plenty of gas in the boondocks cause YOU WILL GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC. And no app is going to help you. I've gone to locations only to find businesses CLOSED. Stuff happens. Depending upon anyone else is foolish.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

You remember the time I ran out of gas ? I was driving and completely unknowing some news came out of Cuba that sparked a full scale protest in just about every street in Miami . I was stuck for hours . I even had to park and use. restroom at a supermarket only to get back in. traffic . People were on. every street and even b locked the highway walking into it . I was on 1/8 of a tank . I finally made it close before the car died . I got out and could not budge it . I was in the worst spot and suddenly I hear a voice "can I help" . I turn around and a guy 1/3 my age and huge helped push my car a few blocks and I GOT GAS !!!!

Had this been an EV it would have been toast . Even tow trucks were paralyzed ,

Stuck in traffic and low on gas?

TURN YOUR ENGINE OFF!!!

Pretty simple, really... Some might even consider the concept of what used to be known as, common sense.

Why keep the engine idling in an obvious gridlock situation?!?

Whose responsibility is it if/when a vehicle runs out of fuel? It's a multiple choice question with a single option.


...and, as noted above, never let the gas tank get below 1/4 - in states that experience winter conditions, the rule of thumb during
those months is 1/2! No kidding!!!





BTW, had your vehicle been an EV, you would have to have been pushed to the nearest charging station in order to "refuel",


Where is Forrest Gump, now that we need him?!?

 

[ericsan13]

OK, I'll bite. Remember I have repeatedly said I got no issue with an about town runabout, which is basically how you use it. My issue is sunk costs to allow that to happen, which I aint going to pay to anymore than if they told me to build a gas station. So ...



I get you like charging at home and like I said, I would have no real issue with that. However 15 years I've about plugged in my Porsches everytime they are parked (to avoid the battery dying). And its is a MAJOR PAIN. It's OLD. I'm sick of it. There's that. I've looked forward to the time to NOT plug anything in, like the other 278,000,000 car owners who dont worry about their battery dying.



I got records too. And did the math on one car. So compare the time you spent charging on the road to the comparable time getting gas. I counted 44 x 5 mins = 220 mins or 3.6 hours. How many hours would be that waiting at chargers, that is, if they are not broken???

1. I dont need some app to tell me where a gas station is. They are everywhere.
2. I dont need to worry about running out of gas anywhere East of the Mississippi. You can't throw a rock and not hit a gas station, sometimes four on the same corner
3. When "on the road", I am NOT going to sit and wait more than 5 minutes for anything. I got places to go, people to see, and things to do.
4. I do not have any desire to sit and Eat at the Jersey Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer Rest Area to sample their delicacies or to avoid the scammers in the parking lot. etc etc etc

So Im not seeing the point. Sure, charge at home, a pain cause you gotta remember to plug it in and I've been doing that religiously for the last 15 years anyway. But a major pain on the road. Compare apples to apples. I got no issue with about town runabouts.

And its no effort to drive to a gas station. Since they are everywhere, they are in "on the way" home or to wherever I go.

I remember your situation and that it's more difficult for you to realize the ROI. But your original statement is about overall time, and I showed that overall you spend more time getting gas. To me that is the larger pain and inconvenience, but to you 'time on the road' and 'having to plug in/remember to plug in' is the larger inconvenience. That is up to you. For me, I'm sick of having to touch dirty gas pumps and having my wife run down the tank before letting me know she needs gas. Yet even she has no issues plugging in my EV at home.😅

Also recall that I completely ignored EV destination chargers for the sake of the calculations. I also stretched each charging stop to 33 minutes for the sake of exaggeration. You don't have to make deliberate stops to charge to 80%. I can charge while I'm at a restaurant or while I'm at my closest mall (for free!). I went to Ikea the other day and plugged in because I got to park closer to the entrance (lol). AirBnBs and hotels now are listing whether they have L2 chargers. You often have the choice to do the overnight 'home charging' somewhere else.

Also I think you are blowing broken chargers out of proportion. I have never once encountered a broken charger. Even so, in my area there are many empty charging stations. Four on the same intersection amount of charging stations. The number of charging stations will grow over time from an acceptable amount to excellent. In your area that may not yet be the case. My nav shows me all the available plugs as I drive around so I am very aware of what's available (I don't need 'some app'). You can check out plugshare to see your options. For me they are already positioned strategically where I need them that the maximum 3.5 hour 'on the road' charging time needed will be significantly reduced.

Also my usage of 8 road trips in three years is far above the national average. I used the data from my 'road trip' car. We don't road trip with the Macan because it's smaller and devours gas. "8. On average, Americans take about seven road trips in their lifetimes."

 

[ericsan13]

It seems this whole thread has decayed down to people trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV

Not much of a discussion at this point. Just tip-toeing around words and topics . . . thread will be a hundred pages long and nothing will change

I will resort back to the ICE topics and leave you gents to hash out the EV agenda

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

AVM

The same could be said that this thread is about justifying why EVs suck, will not pick up further adoption, and just don't work.

I'm not trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV. On another thread I have already said while it's a lovely car, the price is hard for me to swallow.

Is it so hard to believe that in a lot of situations, EVs make a lot of sense? Even grim believes that EVs work (well?) as around town runabouts. Maybe your situation is different (and that is fine, no one is attacking your lifestyle and forcing you to buy a Macan EV today) but I believe there's a lot of EV FUD that potential Macan EV buyers here would benefit from the discussion. And that hearing from actual EV owners who can share their lived experience would help.

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

 

[grim]

...and, as noted above, never let the gas tank get below 1/4 - in states that experience winter conditions, the rule of thumb during those months is 1/2! No kidding!!!

Totally agree with the 1/2 tank for snow. You learn that young, or you freeze.

OTOH, there are traffic jams you cant turn the car off because traffic is backed up for 5 miles. I have seen this many times, but crawling along at 2 mph. You just cant cause of the guy behind you. These are usually accidents or construction.

FWIW, ive also seen where the traffic doesnt move at all for 15 mins. I think you mean this.

 

[grim]

I'm sick of … having my wife run down the tank before letting me know she needs gas.

😅 Join the club

there are many empty charging stations.

We are 3,000 miles apart, vastly different areas. We have many ev chargers, all empty, mostly at walmart, free ones at Walgreens. Who goes to a drug store to charge? I once saw someone charging at a mall. We used to have bikes for rent near downtown area, now gone. My guess? No one rented them. I see zero evs daily, maybe 2 or 3 within 10 mile radius all Teslas. Rare for any other make. I saw a Model S once (I pay attention to cars), an i4, and a Bolt. Life is just a sea of pickups and SUVs.

. "8. On average, Americans take about seven road trips in their lifetimes."

Everone is different. Ive seen the USA in my chevy and would never give that back, its priceless, been to so many backwoods places I cant name them all, no cell phone service, no name motels, and far from the maddening crowd. Get off the beaten track and see the beauty of the nation, and lower CAN

Think Route 66 without the drama.

 

[yrralis1]

Stuck in traffic and low on gas?

TURN YOUR ENGINE OF!!!

Pretty simple, really... Some might even consider the concept of what used to be known as, common sense.

Why keep the engine idling in an obvious gridlock situation?!?

Whose responsibility is it if/when a vehicle runs out of fuel? It's a multiple choice question with a single option.


...and, as noted above, never let the gas tank get below 1/4 - in states that experience winter conditions, the rule of thumb during
those months is 1/2! No kidding!!!





BTW, had your vehicle been an EV, you would have to have been pushed to the nearest charging station in order to "refuel",


Where is Forrest Gump, now that we need him?!?

Most did not even know why there was traffic everywhere . Typical traffic is not widespread. Plus people were angry and protesting . There is no reason to judge me for simply trying to get home without stranding my car . There was no where to park . People were even driving on the sidewalk . You weren't there . I dont owe you an explanation.

Go ahead find me. parking space ,

 

[yrralis1]

Totally agree with the 1/2 tank for snow. You learn that young, or you freeze.

OTOH, there are traffic jams you cant turn the car off because traffic is backed up for 5 miles. I have seen this many times, but crawling along at 2 mph. You just cant cause of the guy behind you. These are usually accidents or construction.

FWIW, ive also seen where the traffic doesnt move at all for 15 mins. I think you mean this.

This was more than a traffic jam. People saw the news and basically walked out of their homes angry and into the street . It was immediate . So it wasn't just traffic . Even when the guy helped push me he was in traffic but the crowds had walked out of those last 3 blocks . I almost made it . EV would have needed to be towed There are no charging stations in that area . Tow trucks an even the police were paralyzed .

 

[yrralis1]

...and, as noted above, never let the gas tank get below 1/4 - in states that experience winter conditions, the rule of thumb during
those months is 1/2! No kidding!!!

Its not illegal to be low in gas . I dont live in cold climate . It is illegal for large groups to bock every street and major highway .

 

[slw23]

It seems this whole thread has decayed down to people trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV

Not much of a discussion at this point. Just tip-toeing around words and topics . . . thread will be a hundred pages long and nothing will change

I will resort back to the ICE topics and leave you gents to hash out the EV agenda

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

AVM

As someone with no horse in this race, the same could be said by the few that say there is an EV agenda on this forum or that somehow, Porsche is forcing people into an EV. The fact of the matter is, there remains tons of ICE choices, just no longer a new ICE Macan choice.

One who wants/enjoys what an EV has to offer does not mean that same person is part of some agenda. I really don't understand the disdain for EVs and why people feel it's necessary to scream from the rooftops about how bad they are for everyone else. Don't like EVs? Great, don't buy one. Many are repeating the same thing over and over, which is why there is no discussion.

Personally, I wish there was a new ICE Macan coming. I was an early adopter back in '14 and now have a '22 in the stable, but the platform is old and the interior, while given a facelift, still looks dated to my eyes. An EV just doesn't fit my lifestyle at the moment, esp not a six figure EV. For now, I'll continue top enjoy our ICE vehicles. Love that I don't need to stop on my trips from LA <> Vegas and still have well over 200 miles to go before I need fill up. That said, I am looking forward to the day that I won't need a gas station for all of our vehicles.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Hi fellow Porsche enthusiasts. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed all the discussions. Sometimes things get feisty but I like that because we all have opinions, whether lovers, haters, or fence sitters. My wife came to Porsche in 2023 with the purchase of a 2023 Taycan 4S (in a fabulous Frozenberry colour) and a 2023 Macan GTS (Papaya, obviously). See a couple of pics below. Previously, my wife drove a Mercedes AMG C63s (and a bunch of BMWs before that car) and I drove a Landscruiser Sahara (and a bunch of BMWs X5 30D before that car). Neither of us had had an EV prior to the Taycan, and neither of us had had cars in the Porsche caliber full-stop.

My wife loved the C63s V8 engine. It was wonderful. The car drove well and was exceptionally fun as a DD. But it looked ordinary. If you didn't know it had "that engine", the average citizen would just think it another car on the road. Same for the Landcruiser. Sure I had the top-specced version but they are dime-a-dozen here in Australia. Lopes along the highway effortlessly, but a whale of a car that wanders, floats, and swims through traffic. I was sick of the size and boat-like feeling.

Forget about the ICE versus EV thing for a moment. The Taycan is really fun to drive. The instant torque does not get old. It is fun to give the throttle a stab off the lights and go like the clappers. The interior is a massive improvement on the Mercedes, which itself was better than any car we had previously owned. Did she buy an EV for "climate change" reasons? No way. She just wanted a fancy car that looked like a fancy car. The Macan was nice for her, but she didn't want an SUV. She refused to test out the two door varieties because she wanted the flexibility of taking extra passengers from time to time. So between the Panamera and the Taycan she decided it was time to try the EV. Previously we had test driven all the Tesla models, usually in performance versions. She has plenty of friends and colleagues who have Tesla's and they all seem to love them. But for my wife, Tesla's are not exciting to look at.

She is not strictly an "enthusiast". And yet she exhibits some of the enthusiast characteristics @grim mentions. In particular, she looks back at her Taycan, and at every opportunity says "look at the back side of my car"! Isn't it hot!??

And yet I am very glad I have the Macan GTS and not the Taycan. I find the Taycan too large. It corners savagely but I get what @yyalis1 and others say about the extra weight and being "nimble". I love the exhaust note. I love the hard revving. I love the perceived variations of power as the turbo kicks. We have never "dragged" off the lights but I assume the Taycan would win (I don't know)? And yet I don't care. I do really love this Macan and am sympathetic with those who have owned many Macans, or have owned one for a long time, and love them. I understand that you (and I) want more ICE versions.

The above notwithstanding, I suspect the reality of EV ownership is very different depending on world-wide location. This has been touched on again and again in the hundreds of posts above, but having read all (or nearly all) of them, I'm not sure posters are really appreciating the geographical and situational differences? Fundamentalism abounds in so many inquiries of life -- and is alive and well here too. I like to live in the grey and listen to all sides of the argument.

Cold Weather: In Queensland Australia, there is no issue about cold-weather-limitations on the battery. Just as I acknowledge that the Taycan is not a particularly "good" car for cold weather areas, to be fair, that limitation applies, well, only to cold-weather-areas. It is misleading (in my opinion) to discount EVs on the basis of cold weather.

Infrastructure: In this thread, there is extensive polarising views around charging infrastructure and charging at home and abroad. In Australia, at least in Queensland, charging at home is easy. I suspect it is not so easy in many parts of the USA. I acknowledge the geographical differences, but it is misleading (in my opinion) to discount (universally) EVs on the basis of electrical infrastructure.

Range: For sure, range is poor by comparison. My wife's Taycan has the "extended battery" and barely gets 300km of range. That's a mere 186 miles. My Macan will get an easy 500kms around town and up to 700kms of highway driving. Ahem, unless I start enjoying that exhaust note too much in which case it reduces closer to 400kms on a tank of petrol (gas). But that's flogging it. I'm fairly confident no one buys the Taycan for its range. That said, my wife drives 30km per day and it is easy for us to charge on weekends using majority solar power. Whether range becomes a factor depends on the use of the car. Totally sympathetic to those who love their EVs (like my wife) who drive around town only, and those who strongly dislike the range limitation because they go on road trips. Understood. But I wish those who are so against the EV's poor range would acknowledge that some of us have excellent electrical infrastructure, extensive 3PH solar generation, and low DD range requirements. In the same breath, I acknowledge that there are plenty participating here who do not have access to good electrical infrastructure, do not have solar power, and have high or varied DD range requirements. Grey area.

Depreciation: I don't doubt that the Taycan depreciates very badly and will be worth nothing at some point (all too soon). But I'm surprised at how much this matters to other posters on this thread. So surprised that I wonder whether depreciation is really experiential and car-dependent? I see comments about 992s appreciating in value. Wow. By comparison, the Taycan is atrocious. For all my previous cars (Ford, Toyota, BMW, Lexus) depreciation is generally savage. I got a "lot" for my Landcruiser but I put this down to the Covid effect and the fact that my 200 series land cruiser was among the last of the 200 series V8s. Since my wife and I come from an experience where depreciation is high, we are less phased by the depreciation of the Taycan. I assume 992 owners would find the depreciation of a Taycan simply intolerable. Grey area.

Insurance: This is an area that absolutely must be acknowledged as location dependent. So many posters report (or surmise) that insurance premiums are extremely high for EVs. This is simply not the case here, and a more nuanced view is required. To be specific, the Taycan policy is $3,125AUD for one year of premium insurance (for a car that cost $259k AUD), while her Mercedes AMG 63s cost $3,084AUD for one year of equivalent insurance (for a car that cost $180k AUD). These numbers are hard facts. No one can say whether insurance premiums will change in the future. But to say that EVs are far more expensive to insure is simply wrong for us, living in Australia, in 2024. Grey area?

Conclusion: My wife bought the Taycan 4S because she liked how it looked. She also likes how it drives. She likes the luxury. And she loves the colour. I bought the Macan GTS because I liked how it looked. I much prefer how it drives. And I love the ICE theatre. I understand all that discussion about EVs being forced on us, etc. But EVs are not being forced on us in Australia. We both got exactly what we wanted. Take care.

 

[grim]

Hi fellow Porsche enthusiasts. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed all the discussions.

A very balanced, healthy, and logical POV. thank you for this insightful view. All to often, we all can only see whats inside are own bubbles and not the greater picture.

👏 👍

 

[yrralis1]

Hi fellow Porsche enthusiasts. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed all the discussions. Sometimes things get feisty but I like that because we all have opinions, whether lovers, haters, or fence sitters. My wife came to Porsche in 2023 with the purchase of a 2023 Taycan 4S (in a fabulous Frozenberry colour) and a 2023 Macan GTS (Papaya, obviously). See a couple of pics below. Previously, my wife drove a Mercedes AMG C63s (and a bunch of BMWs before that car) and I drove a Landscruiser Sahara (and a bunch of BMWs X5 30D before that car). Neither of us had had an EV prior to the Taycan, and neither of us had had cars in the Porsche caliber full-stop.

My wife loved the C63s V8 engine. It was wonderful. The car drove well and was exceptionally fun as a DD. But it looked ordinary. If you didn't know it had "that engine", the average citizen would just think it another car on the road. Same for the Landcruiser. Sure I had the top-specced version but they are dime-a-dozen here in Australia. Lopes along the highway effortlessly, but a whale of a car that wanders, floats, and swims through traffic. I was sick of the size and boat-like feeling.

Forget about the ICE versus EV thing for a moment. The Taycan is really fun to drive. The instant torque does not get old. It is fun to give the throttle a stab off the lights and go like the clappers. The interior is a massive improvement on the Mercedes, which itself was better than any car we had previously owned. Did she buy an EV for "climate change" reasons? No way. She just wanted a fancy car that looked like a fancy car. The Macan was nice for her, but she didn't want an SUV. She refused to test out the two door varieties because she wanted the flexibility of taking extra passengers from time to time. So between the Panamera and the Taycan she decided it was time to try the EV. Previously we had test driven all the Tesla models, usually in performance versions. She has plenty of friends and colleagues who have Tesla's and they all seem to love them. But for my wife, Tesla's are not exciting to look at.

She is not strictly an "enthusiast". And yet she exhibits some of the enthusiast characteristics @grim mentions. In particular, she looks back at her Taycan, and at every opportunity says "look at the back side of my car"! Isn't it hot!??

And yet I am very glad I have the Macan GTS and not the Taycan. I find the Taycan too large. It corners savagely but I get what @yyalis1 and others say about the extra weight and being "nimble". I love the exhaust note. I love the hard revving. I love the perceived variations of power as the turbo kicks. We have never "dragged" off the lights but I assume the Taycan would win (I don't know)? And yet I don't care. I do really love this Macan and am sympathetic with those who have owned many Macans, or have owned one for a long time, and love them. I understand that you (and I) want more ICE versions.

The above notwithstanding, I suspect the reality of EV ownership is very different depending on world-wide location. This has been touched on again and again in the hundreds of posts above, but having read all (or nearly all) of them, I'm not sure posters are really appreciating the geographical and situational differences? Fundamentalism abounds in so many inquiries of life -- and is alive and well here too. I like to live in the grey and listen to all sides of the argument.

Cold Weather: In Queensland Australia, there is no issue about cold-weather-limitations on the battery. Just as I acknowledge that the Taycan is not a particularly "good" car for cold weather areas, to be fair, that limitation applies, well, only to cold-weather-areas. It is misleading (in my opinion) to discount EVs on the basis of cold weather.

Infrastructure: In this thread, there is extensive polarising views around charging infrastructure and charging at home and abroad. In Australia, at least in Queensland, charging at home is easy. I suspect it is not so easy in many parts of the USA. I acknowledge the geographical differences, but it is misleading (in my opinion) to discount (universally) EVs on the basis of electrical infrastructure.

Range: For sure, range is poor by comparison. My wife's Taycan has the "extended battery" and barely gets 300km of range. That's a mere 186 miles. My Macan will get an easy 500kms around town and up to 700kms of highway driving. Ahem, unless I start enjoying that exhaust note too much in which case it reduces closer to 400kms on a tank of petrol (gas). But that's flogging it. I'm fairly confident no one buys the Taycan for its range. That said, my wife drives 30km per day and it is easy for us to charge on weekends using majority solar power. Whether range becomes a factor depends on the use of the car. Totally sympathetic to those who love their EVs (like my wife) who drive around town only, and those who strongly dislike the range limitation because they go on road trips. Understood. But I wish those who are so against the EV's poor range would acknowledge that some of us have excellent electrical infrastructure, extensive 3PH solar generation, and low DD range requirements. In the same breath, I acknowledge that there are plenty participating here who do not have access to good electrical infrastructure, do not have solar power, and have high or varied DD range requirements. Grey area.

Depreciation: I don't doubt that the Taycan depreciates very badly and will be worth nothing at some point (all too soon). But I'm surprised at how much this matters to other posters on this thread. So surprised that I wonder whether depreciation is really experiential and car-dependent? I see comments about 992s appreciating in value. Wow. By comparison, the Taycan is atrocious. For all my previous cars (Ford, Toyota, BMW, Lexus) depreciation is generally savage. I got a "lot" for my Landcruiser but I put this down to the Covid effect and the fact that my 200 series land cruiser was among the last of the 200 series V8s. Since my wife and I come from an experience where depreciation is high, we are less phased by the depreciation of the Taycan. I assume 992 owners would find the depreciation of a Taycan simply intolerable. Grey area.

Insurance: This is an area that absolutely must be acknowledged as location dependent. So many posters report (or surmise) that insurance premiums are extremely high for EVs. This is simply not the case here, and a more nuanced view is required. To be specific, the Taycan policy is $3,125AUD for one year of premium insurance (for a car that cost $259k AUD), while her Mercedes AMG 63s cost $3,084AUD for one year of equivalent insurance (for a car that cost $180k AUD). These numbers are hard facts. No one can say whether insurance premiums will change in the future. But to say that EVs are far more expensive to insure is simply wrong for us, living in Australia, in 2024. Grey area?

Conclusion: My wife bought the Taycan 4S because she liked how it looked. She also likes how it drives. She likes the luxury. And she loves the colour. I bought the Macan GTS because I liked how it looked. I much prefer how it drives. And I love the ICE theatre. I understand all that discussion about EVs being forced on us, etc. But EVs are not being forced on us in Australia. We both got exactly what we wanted. Take care.


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I liked how you examined the strengths and weaknesses of ef each and how they compliment each other in your lifestyle . I had a long talk with a friend who was was given a Taycan 4S as a company car . He has driven more Porsches than I can dream of . His words were much like yours in that he felt Porsche tried to make it as linear as an ICE car . He also found it comfortable and amazing looking .He also conceded that "its their first one " with some of the snags . For over a decade the biggest complaint about the Panamera was the styling and it was a huge slap in the face that the Taycan got what the Panamera had dreamed iff . I wonder had the aesthetics been reversed if the choice would have been the same .

The range comparison with the Macan had you pit the Taycan as weak . Imagine how I feel when I compare my Macan with my extended range 500 + mile range in my 992 . Going to a Taycan would freak me out using your numbers . You also mentioned that yoir wife wanted to take passengers . I used to have the debates with my father as a child . He was. luxury car guy . He felt a sports car was "selfish" and yes I gravitated to a sport cars . Many of the selfish reasons I viewed as positives . Even at 17 years old it was a way to say no to all my friends who didn't have a car from feeling like their taxi. Plus all the focus centered on my driving connection to the road and one person was enough to share it with . In fact my favorite drives to this day are done alone. There is a private connection between myself , the car and the road with no distractions . I can likely can count how many times I have been a passenger in an expensive passenger car . Most of the "rational" car people I know drive rather modest family cars . They look at my cars as being excessive yet they blow ten times that in home renovations or travel . To them a car is an appliance and at time a nuisance rather than a joy . They will never get it.

At the price of a Taycan 4S and Turbo its dead even with a 911 in the USA market . I could not imagine doing it . Just on the level of the history of Porsche the 911 is such an ICON that " lets go in your car because mine has no room" would just roll off my tongue effortlessly . I look at yoir cars as they are two beautiful cars yet the longest I ever was without a 911 was 18 months since 1995 . I would have to have three because the hole created by no 911 would be that immense for me. As much as I see how a taycan works for you I just cant see it in my life but do respect your choice and appreciate your balanced. thoughts .

 

[rensent]

Let me make this PERFECTLY clear.

EVERYONE who contemplates, owns, or just wants to discuss, ANY Macan is more than welcome. And I will refer directly to our Community Standards. Rule 1

We expect our members to treat each other respectfully on MacanForum.com. Although ideas and opinions may be challenged, name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.

If anyone feels ANY of the standards have been violated, click on the three buttons on every post and report it and the reason why. @oqjnLu@>@W or myself will respond. Do not expect either of us to read every post in every thread. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.

As to pushback from the ICE vs EV segments, what did you expect to happen? If the end game comes true, a world of electric vehicles, did you expect the longtime Porsche faithful to embrace the new technology with smiling faces when they see THEIR world crumble before them? All you've got to do is understand the history of the marque. It came about because the founder built the car of his dreams. People bought them, drove them during the week, and raced them on weekends. The company went on to DOMINATE endurance racing. Its foundation is based on world class racing. To this day they still back race teams and build race cars. It's what they do. And the people who buy these cars have a passion and loyalty that you can see from the posts themselves, and this isn't even a sports car forum. If the vehicle is an appliance to you, then it doesn't matter. It's just an expensive washing machine. But if it's something more, something where you visit your garage to just polish or see your car, if it's what you dreamed about owning all your life or buy one after another, what did you expect to happen?

Some 911 purists laughed at the lower priced cars like the 914/924/944 and successors. And then the Cayenne and Macan were built and they were not viewed kindly by some sports car buyers. And yet, here we are, some owners owning BOTH the sports cars and 4 door cars. Things change, whether it be from air cooled to water cooled, or two door to 4 door, even rear engined to mid-engined. Suddenly the race cars are "mid-engined". Imagine that.

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

There inevitably will be discussion on electric grids, resources, expenses, the advantages or disadvantages of EVs, aesthetics, hidden costs like insurance, the abuse the pavement takes if everyone drives heavier vehicles, new technologies, and old technologies. So be it. Its why forums exists, to discuss, and to help each other. To come together to discuss common interests. This is just the beginning. NOBODY has one of these cars yet. NOBODY know the complaints or the good things. Nobody knows the problems that will come with the first year cars. Nobody knows anything. It's all speculation.

Feel free to argue away, but please do not personally attack each other. Follow our community standards. Sometimes it's best to see BOTH sides. Personally, like I said before, I can see the point of a small electric around town runabout. But no way do I intend to pay the sunk costs with trenching, year long waits for the utility company, the cost of copper rising, labor rates for electricians.

It is what it is. In the US, the public and the market will decide. Elsewhere, that's up to wherever you live. Be happy. Your money, buy whatever you want. Feel good in your own decisions. You don't need to rationalize your acquisitions by getting anyone else opinions. You paid for it. They did not.

Please be nice to each other.

thank you

Well said, a seriously good piece of writing!

Let me make this PERFECTLY clear.

EVERYONE who contemplates, owns, or just wants to discuss, ANY Macan is more than welcome. And I will refer directly to our Community Standards. Rule 1

We expect our members to treat each other respectfully on MacanForum.com. Although ideas and opinions may be challenged, name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.

If anyone feels ANY of the standards have been violated, click on the three buttons on every post and report it and the reason why. @oqjnLu@>@W or myself will respond. Do not expect either of us to read every post in every thread. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.

As to pushback from the ICE vs EV segments, what did you expect to happen? If the end game comes true, a world of electric vehicles, did you expect the longtime Porsche faithful to embrace the new technology with smiling faces when they see THEIR world crumble before them? All you've got to do is understand the history of the marque. It came about because the founder built the car of his dreams. People bought them, drove them during the week, and raced them on weekends. The company went on to DOMINATE endurance racing. Its foundation is based on world class racing. To this day they still back race teams and build race cars. It's what they do. And the people who buy these cars have a passion and loyalty that you can see from the posts themselves, and this isn't even a sports car forum. If the vehicle is an appliance to you, then it doesn't matter. It's just an expensive washing machine. But if it's something more, something where you visit your garage to just polish or see your car, if it's what you dreamed about owning all your life or buy one after another, what did you expect to happen?

Some 911 purists laughed at the lower priced cars like the 914/924/944 and successors. And then the Cayenne and Macan were built and they were not viewed kindly by some sports car buyers. And yet, here we are, some owners owning BOTH the sports cars and 4 door cars. Things change, whether it be from air cooled to water cooled, or two door to 4 door, even rear engined to mid-engined. Suddenly the race cars are "mid-engined". Imagine that.

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

There inevitably will be discussion on electric grids, resources, expenses, the advantages or disadvantages of EVs, aesthetics, hidden costs like insurance, the abuse the pavement takes if everyone drives heavier vehicles, new technologies, and old technologies. So be it. Its why forums exists, to discuss, and to help each other. To come together to discuss common interests. This is just the beginning. NOBODY has one of these cars yet. NOBODY know the complaints or the good things. Nobody knows the problems that will come with the first year cars. Nobody knows anything. It's all speculation.

Feel free to argue away, but please do not personally attack each other. Follow our community standards. Sometimes it's best to see BOTH sides. Personally, like I said before, I can see the point of a small electric around town runabout. But no way do I intend to pay the sunk costs with trenching, year long waits for the utility company, the cost of copper rising, labor rates for electricians.

It is what it is. In the US, the public and the market will decide. Elsewhere, that's up to wherever you live. Be happy. Your money, buy whatever you want. Feel good in your own decisions. You don't need to rationalize your acquisitions by getting anyone else opinions. You paid for it. They did not.

Please be nice to each other.

thank you

 

[rensent]

Well said! A seriously good piece of writing.

 

[reguy]

Biden Administration Is Said to Slow Early Stage of Shift to Electric Cars - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

"Instead of essentially requiring automakers to rapidly ramp up sales of electric vehicles over the next few years, the administration would give car manufacturers more time, with a sharp increase in sales not required until after 2030, these people said. They asked to remain anonymous because the regulation has not been finalized. The administration plans to publish the final rule by early spring."