[yrralis1]

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

 

[grim]

I told my wife that I was really bummed out today. I told her that I’ve been reading this forum and it was EV and EV that and I feel like it’s slipping through my fingers. She listened. I went on to say that some people are just running blind into the fire because I think they want to prove something to themselves .

She met me back in 2005. This is the first time in all those years. Did I ever said anything worrisome about Porsche to her.

Remember the launch back in 2014 ? Things like PDK made it to a turbo engine had already been proven, and this was going into the first SUV by Porsche. We felt like pioneers this is different. It’s very different.

Only the rocks live forever

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

Saw the headline, assumed it was clickbait, will watch tomorrow

 

[yrralis1]

Only the rocks live forever




Saw the headline, assumed it was clickbait, will watch tomorrow

Everything YouTube is Clickbait. They did show some of the areas of progress in the alternative fuels. They also discussed that Porsches main goal is geared towards the 911. You’ll see it tomorrow.

 

[meerec]

Who is going to upgrade the sw on a 5 year old car nm 8 years old?

Yep, another reason to go early, asap in fact … will add this to the list to what I said in my earlier reply to @yrralis1

 

[meerec]

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

Suits me perfectly. After an 8 year stint with Macan EV Turbo, I will be able to write it off and move in with a new Macan ICE Turbo fuelled by the synthetic petrol. The price for the synthetic fuel will be at an acceptable level by then. It will be what the doctor Larry ordered.

 

[AVM]

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

That was a great video, however . . .

One must recognize this whole nefarious agenda is just one more problem, reaction, solution scheme . . . the world runs on energy and [they] want to control the energy flow.

Follow the dollar signs . . . the ‘petro dollar’ has ruled the world, but that is coming to an end . . . the 'petro-backed' dollar, that is.

So, the great myth (lie) that has been propagated is that oil (petroleum) is a fossil fuel, as mentioned over and over in the Porsche video . . . oil is not a fossil fuel.

Second, [they] continue to mix [their] metaphors by stating ‘environmental.’ [They] seem to forget that [their] nefarious agenda is based on ‘climate.’

EVERYONE cares about the environment EXCEPT [those] trying to sell us on EVs . . . EVs are environmental catastrophes. More specifically, the production of EVs.

Conversely, the climate crisis is pure bunk. First, HUMAN use of fossil fuels has nothing to do with the climate . . . nor do cows passing gas out in pastures. I will just leave it there given the bumper guards within which we operate on this forum.

So, back to the Porsche video. I say, great! I am all for Porsche engineers seeking alternative fuel sources. The truth is that alternative fuels (energy sources) have existed for over a century that the average person has no idea even exist . . . [they] have controlled the narrative for too long. Follow the dollar signs.

AVM

 

[grim]

Interesting but conflicting.

Oil and petroleum products explained - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

An introduction to crude oil and the products that are produced from crude oil refining.

www.eia.gov

https://www.livescience.com/3400-chemistry-life-oil.html

and the last reference says a "minority" of scientists think otherwise. I don't want to get into an controversy. Who cares? It is what it is. I like to think that T-Rex and the raptors in there. Others say its from plant materials. Whatever.

Its there, it works, so be it And Peak Oil has been wrong since the late 1800s so lets just let this go, please.

 

[grim]

I've discussed the cost of upgrading AMP service to houses. I look at things holistically. What's the end game? The end game is ALL cars EVs. So worrying about a single car, IMO, is short sighted. I see few to no houses with one car. Most have two, many have 4. Its easy with two teenagers to have 4 cars. Some have 5. How are all those cars going to plug in?

I think 200 AMPs is short sighted. ALL these houses were NEVER intended to run the load required for EVs. NOT planning for the future is a waste of investments. This is why this is all in the innovative stage, not even the early adopting stage.

This channel is pretty good, not clickbait, 2.21M Subscribers. He explains what I would call a kluge, a way to innovate with what you got. The explanation is good. The answer is not. IOW, his explanation is GOOD. The answer, imo, sucks. To not bury the lede, if you dont got 200 AMP service, he's talking about smart panels like this one. New company, innovative, monitor the power and adjust accordingly. 5 degrees out? Keep the giant toasters working. 30 degrees out? Let the car charge. Makes sense, but a kluge, a workaround, and NOT the real answer, imo. $3500 for the panel $750 for the charger, plus LABOR and Permits. This looks like $7K easy. I dont view such a thing reasonable when the game plan is ALL cars being EVs. Just upgrade to 400 AMPs and be done with it.

But this guy explains things well

SPAN® Panel | Your intelligent command center for smarter homes.

 

[grim]

Everything YouTube is Clickbait.

I watch lots of car stuff on YouTube but if I want to watch about sports cars, I dont watch "auto journalists" I watch race car drivers. Auto Journalists who were not race car drivers are incapable of getting the last 10% out of the car. They have no idea what it means. Similarly, if I wanted a pickup truck, I'd watch a review from someone who owns one and uses it daily to "work", not a "journalist".

I saw this video and never clicked on it. Why? Because of all the other videos. Unlike Tech Connections 2.1M subscribers, this one is 62K with titles, all in CAPS SHOUTING, like:

ITS ALL OVER
THIS IS BAD
WE ARE DOOMED
ITS OVER

Sorry, clickbait. Time is short. I know the current thing on YouTube is to bash EVs, but this is too much. They just want you to click on it with IMO ridiculous titles.

No, its not all over. No, we are not doomed, etc.

 

[grim]

You’ll see it tomorrow.

OK, yes, I knew they had a plant in Chile. I didn't know about the engine, I knew Toyota never liked EVs. I have ZERO doubt the Germans can make this fuel. Good article below

Germany’s e-fuel fetish ain’t new. Just ask the Führer.

Berlin’s pressure on Europe to embrace synthetic fuels echoes a century-old quest for energy independence.

www.politico.eu

Of course the Germans made gas from coal, etc etc etc Its interesting that the German Finance Minister is in Gorings building, and of course anyone who knows the Porsche history knows that Ferdinand built the peoples wagon and his Tiger tank history so this is all intertwined.

But I dont think this will save them and its all about scaling. If the world is to be EVs, I dont see how they can scale synthetic production, including distribution, worldwide, or even EU wide. The demand is too great. So I doubt E-fuel will amount to more than anything than a niche product for the "elite", in our lifetimes.

I haven't paid much attention to this, because scaling is a MASSIVE problem, probably insurmountable.

 

[grim]

IMO, this is NOT clickbait, CNBC, financial channel on why EVs aren't selling. Even Tesla admits its all too new.

And this is Scotty, who dislikes Porsches (I think) and overpriced German cars. He is prolific and a mechanic. He makes a point. While charging at home is regulated, that is, they make profits from investments, not from the production of electricity, that's not true for those charging stations and they can charge what the market will bear. So while the headline might sound like clickbait, the data is probably true. In the end, its always supply and demand.

A secondary part of this is "how big are the pipes". I had cable internet speed, a Mb, when the rest of the world was listening to the bells and whistles of 28.8K modems. It was GREAT, on day one. The internet FLEW. And then, one day, the entire neighborhood got wired and suddenly the speeds went ⬇Come evening, everyone home from work and turn on their computer, speed were terrible. The same thing is happening here. The bandwidth isn't there. So despite outrageous charges for the electrons, whatever the market will bear, the more cars charging in one location, the slower the speeds.

Get by his style, listen to the words.

 

[Mii]

Really? Why would human even need Macan EV or future EV in general when there is Neom The Line in the work for future!

 

[yrralis1]

IMO, this is NOT clickbait, CNBC, financial channel on why EVs aren't selling. Even Tesla admits its all too new.

And this is Scotty, who dislikes Porsches (I think) and overpriced German cars. He is prolific and a mechanic. He makes a point. While charging at home is regulated, that is, they make profits from investments, not from the production of electricity, that's not true for those charging stations and they can charge what the market will bear. So while the headline might sound like clickbait, the data is probably true. In the end, its always supply and demand.

A secondary part of this is "how big are the pipes". I had cable internet speed, a Mb, when the rest of the world was listening to the bells and whistles of 28.8K modems. It was GREAT, on day one. The internet FLEW. And then, one day, the entire neighborhood got wired and suddenly the speeds went ⬇Come evening, everyone home from work and turn on their computer, speed were terrible. The same thing is happening here. The bandwidth isn't there. So despite outrageous charges for the electrons, whatever the market will bear, the more cars charging in one location, the slower the speeds.

Get by his style, listen to the words.

Great video . He needs to breath a little .

I had never considered. the cost being higher to charge . I had been under the impression it was cheaper .

 

[grim]

Great video . He needs to breath a little .

I had never considered. the cost being higher to charge . I had been under the impression it was cheaper .

Now he is talking about going to charging stations and their price is whatever the market will bear. They can charge whatever they want and we all know that its pure supply and demand. Invest the money in level 3 chargers and collect the cash. The more cars, the greater the demand. I believe every Porsche dealer is required to have at least one 800V charger at their locations

What the people here, and in general, are talking about is Level 2 chargers at home. And some companies do have electric rates where Off Peak hours are cheaper than regular rates. So in FL, when its hot in the summer, they do NOT want you to use electric during the day. They would want you to charge at night. In the north, its the Electric HEAT bill that's the killer. Its COLDER at night. Giant toasters go on, so the power is consumed at night, NOT during the day, as much, when the Sun heats things up. So Off Peak Hours might be different in different states.

But the key is that 72% of electric consumers in the US get their power from PRIVATE COMPANIES. They don't exist to be "nice to people". They exist to make $$$$. But since monopolies are bad, and electric companies are, essentially, monopolies, they are regulated by state commissions. Electric companies don't make money by generating power. They make money by some profit they take from "investments in capital assets".

Why do you think electric companies want you to buy an EV? Could it be? Possibly? Because they get to build more transmission towers, substations, feeder lines, transformers, etc that is, infrastructure, and take 10% of the top? My guess is yes, the more they build out, they more money they make. I'd call that an educated guess as in Finance 101. Buy and EV and I make money from infrastructure. Buy MORE EVs, and I make MORE money. And the money is NOT coming from the Electrons. The money is coming from the capital assets that move and manage the electrons.

So the early adopters who now think their electric rates are "cheaper than gas", which it probably is, are in for a rude awakening IF, and this IF, the public actually moves to 50% or so mainstream EVs, that about 150,000,000 registered EVs in the USA and ALL of them need to be charged, you can take it to the bank, their electric bills are going WAY up.

Its all about Supply and Demand. There is no demand today, in the sense its in the noise. Create a demand for capital assets and BOOM, the price goes up.

 

[rcomeau]

I've discussed the cost of upgrading AMP service to houses. I look at things holistically. What's the end game? The end game is ALL cars EVs. So worrying about a single car, IMO, is short sighted. I see few to no houses with one car. Most have two, many have 4. Its easy with two teenagers to have 4 cars. Some have 5. How are all those cars going to plug in?

I think 200 AMPs is short sighted. ALL these houses were NEVER intended to run the load required for EVs. NOT planning for the future is a waste of investments. This is why this is all in the innovative stage, not even the early adopting stage.

This channel is pretty good, not clickbait, 2.21M Subscribers. He explains what I would call a kluge, a way to innovate with what you got. The explanation is good. The answer is not. IOW, his explanation is GOOD. The answer, imo, sucks. To not bury the lede, if you dont got 200 AMP service, he's talking about smart panels like this one. New company, innovative, monitor the power and adjust accordingly. 5 degrees out? Keep the giant toasters working. 30 degrees out? Let the car charge. Makes sense, but a kluge, a workaround, and NOT the real answer, imo. $3500 for the panel $750 for the charger, plus LABOR and Permits. This looks like $7K easy. I dont view such a thing reasonable when the game plan is ALL cars being EVs. Just upgrade to 400 AMPs and be done with it.

But this guy explains things well

SPAN® Panel | Your intelligent command center for smarter homes.

The EV load is similar to an electric over or clothes dryer (or baseboard heaters for those of us who live in cold climates). Like the flawed so called studies that claimed that hybrids were worse than pure ICE cars, they make subtle assumptions to tilt the results to support their pre-set results.

EVs are not plugged in drawing current every moment of the day when not driving, Personally, I plug in my car about once every 10 days in summer and once a week in winter, So that's 12hrs a week at worst. The rest of the time, the charger is idle. Thats the case for most drivers (ICE cars don't fill up every day. Most houses that have HVAC and/or a clothes dryer can manage an EV. As new houses get built and older ones have their electrics updated, they can easily be updated to accommodate a couple of chargers for the rare people who ned rot charge 2 cars at the same time.

The world is not static, things evolve. New problems that come up when new things are tried get solved.

 

[grim]

The world is not static, things evolve. New problems that come up when new things are tried get solved.

You can spin it all you want, but a kluge is still a kluge. The houses were never designed to handle these loads and its not an end game solution.

Design the houses with the end game in mind, which you can do with new builds, or renovating for big money, but, imo, these energy management solutions will not work when I got three cars to plug in.

Early adopters have a passion for their beliefs and are willing to work around the problems to achieve their goals. The price matters little. The mainstream will not.

 

[rcomeau]

It is still usually cheaper than gas, even at the most expensive charging stations. Sin e yo only fast charge when travelling, you shou

You can spin it all you want, but a kluge is still a kluge. The houses were never designed to handle these loads and its not an end game solution.

Design the houses with the end game in mind, which you can do with new builds, or renovating for big money, but, imo, these energy management solutions will not work when I got three cars to plug in.

Early adopters have a passion for their beliefs and are willing to work around the problems to achieve their goals. The price matters little. The mainstream will not.

Some houses that are still standing were built before running water and electricity, yet by the grace of god, they managed to kludge something together. Houses exist on the timescale of decades to centuries (when well built) and evolve with the needs. Skeptics said baseboard heating will overload the grid. They said the same thing with electric ranges, clothes dryers and modern HVAC. Some see solutions and some see obstacles. It is a constant of the universe. This is a decades transition, not an overnight one. Don't worry, by the time you have no choice in getting an EV (even those who preferred rotary phones had to transition at some point), the problems will have been ironed out by the early adopters. Enjoy your ICE car in the meantime.

 

[yrralis1]

It is still usually cheaper than gas, even at the most expensive charging stations. Sin e yo only fast charge when travelling, you shou

Some houses that are still standing were built before running water and electricity, yet by the grace of god, they managed to kludge something together. Houses exist on the timescale of decades to centuries (when well built) and evolve with the needs. Skeptics said baseboard heating will overload the grid. They said the same thing with electric ranges, clothes dryers and modern HVAC. Some see solutions and some see obstacles. It is a constant of the universe. This is a decades transition, not an overnight one. Don't worry, by the time you have no choice in getting an EV (even those who preferred rotary phones had to transition at some point), the problems will have been ironed out by the early adopters. Enjoy your ICE car in the meantime.

Exactly! Europe will be the first guinea pig because they’re implementing this seemingly overnight. I have no idea what their infrastructure can handle. I look at a place like Texas that could not even handle a cold snap a few years ago.

Our region in Florida is pretty good. That doesn’t mean it’s not without problems. Even with our ice cars, there are still new workarounds that surface usually after the latest storm or heat wave. They finally have it We are most gas stations have generators. 15 years ago that was not the case.

 

[yrralis1]

@grim I appreciate the research and time you put into this. I’ve been so resistant towards the car in general that I’m learning as I go now that it seems to becoming a real event.

I’m still in the phase where I have a new Macon and the new 911. I figured the Macan might squeeze out one more car from me even without any changes if they keep it long enough. If not, then it will be a cayenne V8. After that I would have to look towards other auto manufacturers. In the end, I would be saving money. I never imagined my later years might be driving a Corvette aura my wife would be driving a CRV but for once I might get a chance to save some money.

 

[grim]

Some houses that are still standing were built before running water and electricity, yet by the grace of god, they managed to kludge something together.

And those houses, with no electric, or 30 amp fuses or 60 amp, were renovated and current ones can be renovated, I wrote:

or renovating for big money, … Early adopters have a passion for their beliefs and are willing to work around the problems to achieve their goals. The price matters little. The mainstream will not.

For an end game solution, that is all 280,000,000 registered US vehicles to be converted, its going to cost far more money than the pittance being spent now, both for residential housing and the grid. Good luck getting millions of houses upgraded when people struggle in their daily lives and the average car on US roads is now 12 years, meaning millions of 15 or 20 year old cars. Making this much worse is the trend to underground utilities and the price skyrockets because of trenching coupled with skyrocketing copper costs.

Exactly! Europe will be the first guinea pig because they’re implementing this seemingly overnight. I have no idea what their infrastructure can handle. I look at a place like Texas that could not even handle a cold snap a few years ago.

Somebody needs to buy the LaserDiscs