[dave-t]

Don t you see that most here dont want this ? Its like putting lipstick on a pig . Its still going top be a pig . So they can make all the fancy charging stations or give incentives and it won't change the sentiment . As much as a company tries to make the car similar tp an ICE car it can't be an ICE car . The people pushing this are not drivers . I am all in favor of offering EVs but not taking away ICE to do it . Let the market take away ICE ,

You are in Europe . You have climate kid . There is a pro EV campaign . Sure the USA has PLENTY of cults that even more detrimental than the clean energy cult . Its thus is not number 1 on my hit parade but that doesn't make it good.

Perahps I am just selfish . I dont give a @@@@ !!! I think there are far bigger problems in the world than the little bit of dirt that comes out of my car which brings me joy. I dont care about the price of gas either and feel electricity can become expensive too. In fact EV's are expensive a nd so are their components .

I know many say this is political but its not political for me . If a politician has 10 other policies that like I will still honestly say that I dont like this . I think people who make it political are just afraid to say they disagree with their number 1 guy on anything .

If tomorrow Porsche made an all EV 911 I would test drive a Z06 Corvette .

I hope Porsche thinks about the repeat buyers in North America that they could lose . Its not just the USA . I talk with a group of Porsche owning Canadians and they are all on the same page with this .
Its a big chunk of territory that Porsche ought to consider .

I agree 100% with pretty much everything you said above. I hope Porsche would consider the USA market and still offer ICE. There is one thing I now about the Germans because I worked for a German company before and they are very proud individuals and the company I worked for thought that their way was the only way and would not listen differently, my boss complained all the time that dealing with the home office was a PITA because they did not see things the Americans did. Knowing this I fear the USA market is screwed and we are going to get EV’s shoved down our throats, when that happens I say goodbye to Porsche because I will go down kicking and screaming like a baby.

 

[smemick]

My 2021 GTS is my first Porsche, seriously drawn to the EV, but feel I need one more ICE Porsche before that - hoping they do a 'special' last edition ICE.

 

[grim]

 

[aclapp424]

Has anyone driven one yet?

I know, right?

 

[rickrobillard1]

To be clear: your real world range will be nowhere near 380 if you drive on highways. Those ranges are usually calculated at 55 MPH in near perfect conditions. Travel at real highway speeds and those numbers plummet quickly.

I recently read EV owners in general are experiencing 12% less range than advertise. I believe range is affected by variables including ambient temp and how the car is driven. This is a Porsche and I’d expect better than average. So here again I think we need to hear from owners before making a final judgement. It could be superior engineering by Porsche delivers more than the advertised range?

 

[RickBullotta]

I recently read EV owners in general are experiencing 12% less range than advertise. I believe range is affected by variables including ambient temp and how the car is driven. This is a Porsche and I’d expect better than average. So here again I think we need to hear from owners before making a final judgement. It could be superior engineering by Porsche delivers more than the advertised range?

It's a broader EV issue - testing is not necessarily done in real-world conditions, and even with the great aerodynamics of a Taycan, driving 80 MPH greatly affects range. Porsche has, thus far, been fairly accurate with their range estimates, to their credit.

BTW, the new Taycan looks really, really impressive. Faster, more range, and lighter!

 

[reguy]

Porsche's disclosures about the performance of the EV cars contain disclaimers and "holes" broad enough to drive a truck through, and their warranty does not cover the stated EV stats (i.e., range, HP, etc.), except when the car is brand new at delivery .... they decline once you drive it off the lot.

 

[chanceparker]

It's a broader EV issue - testing is not necessarily done in real-world conditions, and even with the great aerodynamics of a Taycan, driving 80 MPH greatly affects range. Porsche has, thus far, been fairly accurate with their range estimates, to their credit.

BTW, the new Taycan looks really, really impressive. Faster, more range, and lighter!

EVs almost always get the best range in stop/go city driving where they can take advantage of regenerative braking. Range on the highway is usually much worse. My wife had a Kia EV6 for awhile. Around town, 275-300 miles of range. On the highway at 65-75mph, maybe 225 miles of range.

 

[grim]

If you care about depreciation, watch this. Taycans are horrendous

But if you got a 981 GT4 or Spyder you are golden 😃

 

[TigerMac]

The issue with the Taycan is also somewhat caused by Porsche themselves. If you look at their (in my opinion impressive) model upgrading for the Taycan, a new battery and enhanced inverter technology outperforms earlier models significantly as Heise Auto reports. This is not expected to happen with the elaborated 911 ICE models from my perspective...

 

[ScubaEsteban]

Porsche's disclosures about the performance of the EV cars contain disclaimers and "holes" broad enough to drive a truck through, and their warranty does not cover the stated EV stats (i.e., range, HP, etc.), except when the car is brand new at delivery .... they decline once you drive it off the lot.

I really wouldn't expect kw delivered to the EV motor to change over time. Electrical motors are very predictable over time and have reasonable service life. Batteries, that's a whole different story. And depending on how the battery is used, charged, discharged ,etc will have varying degrees of success for the user.

Such as most people don't know that charging the battery to 100 percent and having your car air for long periods is time in warm weather will literally ruin the battery. We've always been taught, leave your car with a full tankv to avoid moisture absorption. To operate an EV successfully you have to be a bit of an engineer/chemist to be successful in being the end user.

That said, battery tech is changing rapidly. And the difference in 6 years to now is astonishing. We have literally gone from go carts to relatively high performance cars in a decade.

 

[reguy]

I really wouldn't expect kw delivered to the EV motor to change over time. Electrical motors are very predictable over time and have reasonable service life. Batteries, that's a whole different story. And depending on how the battery is used, charged, discharged ,etc will have varying degrees of success for the user.

Such as most people don't know that charging the battery to 100 percent and having your car air for long periods is time in warm weather will literally ruin the battery. We've always been taught, leave your car with a full tankv to avoid moisture absorption. To operate an EV successfully you have to be a bit of an engineer/chemist to be successful in being the end user.

That said, battery tech is changing rapidly. And the difference in 6 years to now is astonishing. We have literally gone from go carts to relatively high performance cars in a decade.

As you say, much depends on how the EV car is maintained and used (factors such as, temperature, how often it's charged and to what level, etc.). Those factors can cause a loss of power and range. This is a non issue for ICE cars. Unless a person literally abuses the ICE car, the engine should have virtually the same performance capabilities over the life of the vehicle. This is another reason why I will not jump yet into the EV phase.

 

[ericsan13]

You are only fooling yourself when looking at non-inflation adjusted prices.

Electricity 1978 $0.05c/kWh ($0.20c/kWh in today's currency) and 2022 $0.16c/kWh (20% decrease)
Gasoline 1978 $0.67c/kWh ($4.03/gallon in today's currency) and 2022 $4.09/gallon (1.5% increase)

Gas price inflation, 1970→2025

This calculator uses the official Consumer Price Index for Gas from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Gas costing $3.29 in 1970 would cost $33.07 in 2025.

www.officialdata.org

Electricity price inflation, 1970→2025

This calculator uses the official Consumer Price Index for Electricity from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Electricity costing $100 in 1970 would cost $914.49 in 2025.

www.in2013dollars.com

Even at the higher $0.18c/kWh that's $4.71 to travel 100 miles/26.2kWh in a Model Y. Take a Macan at 19.4MPG and that's $20.6 of gas.

 

[rcomeau]

Anyone who does not want an EV will easily find 1000 reasons not to get one. Those who like EVs will ignore those reasons and get one and most never regret it. Very few of our decisions are made based on facts and figures but on our emotions (and we look for supporting facts to justify the decision we already made). I've had a Jag I-Pace for almost 5 years (first model year). Most fun car to drive I've ever had. Clear that EVs are the future but it is clear that there are a lot of issue to iron out, but none of them are particularly hard to solve, we just have to get around to solving them. Had ALL the issues the I-Pace has ever had (including the battery recall). Despite the issues, I miss the EV every time I travel and get an ICE rental car (or drive the dealer loaner during the many extended repair times for the I-Pace).

 

[ScubaEsteban]

As you say, much depends on how the EV car is maintained and used (factors such as, temperature, how often it's charged and to what level, etc.). Those factors can cause a loss of power and range. This is a non issue for ICE cars. Unless a person literally abuses the ICE car, the engine should have virtually the same performance capabilities over the life of the vehicle. This is another reason why I will not jump yet into the EV phase.

I'll politely disagree about that. I get a chance at my job to get cars and motorcycles dynod allot. You would be surprised how much power you have lost from new to say 50k miles.. especially when the engine is not broken in properly. I'll argue almost no new cars are properly broken in due transport and dealer needs. Lots of short engine runs to move the cars around. Not proper heat cycles. When I tear down an engine I almost always see a ring is jammed, cross hatching is gone and don't even get me started on valve seating.

 

[ericsan13]

And those who think electric rates aint going to cost as much as gas, its just a matter of time.

This is some serious fearmongering based on a single utility. PG&E is a for-profit and supposedly rotten through the core. Their highest peak rates are 62c (the HIGHEST off peak rate is 53c). Rates.

Their next door neighbors SVP have an average rate of 16.6c per kWh. Rates.

But let's do the math based on aforementioned 14,263 mile/year for the average American and my previous post using the Model Y.

PG&E would use 3,737 kWh or $1,981 at off-peak rates for a Model Y LR. Macan would eat 735 gallons of gas or $2,205 at $3/gal.
SVP would use 3,737 kWh or $620 at the average rate for a Model Y LR. Again Macan would eat 735 gallons of gas or $2,205 at $3/gal.

As you can see energy in both scenarios still cheaper than a Macan. Also note national average gas price is $3.11 this week and $4.71 for Californians. #didthemath

 

[Stealthn]

Can we all be clear here, EV’s are not for planet savers, ICE is still ahead ecologically, but it’s cool to see fun performance EV’s and supercars!

 

[ericsan13]

Here where home charging is most common you see these charging stations empty. I question how they are making money.

I drive by many charging stations all the time and there are hardly ever any cars at them. The only time I've experienced full stations is at work, and that's probably because they offer 4 hours of free charging! 😅

 

[ericsan13]

100 Amps, today is not much. Just think about this.

You got the dryer on? 30 Amps max
Hot water doing its thing? 30 Amps
Its cold out, the electric house toaster is on (furnace) 60 Amps.
You want to cook at the same time on that Electric range? That could be 50 AMP if everything is on. Less ifs one burner is on and say the oven.

See the point? Guess what, you are OVER the 100 AMP maximum. Of course, that Furnace might not be using all its "banks" at one time, or the hot water heater might not be doing anything Put on the Microwave? Oops. They bet on you NOT using all those things at once. That was a good bet in 1980. Today?

Here's an idea. Set your L2 charger to charge from 12AM to 5AM, during off-peak hours (which is good for your wallet and utility power generation). Then you are not using the dryer/hot water/furnace at the same time. 5 hours is enough time to charge a Model Y LR from 20% to 80% (+198 miles). Also some houses have gas and 100A service. It's possible to make it work even if you drive 200mi/day.

I have 200A service and a gas furnace/water heater for example. Lucky me, I know.

 

[ericsan13]

Can we all be clear here, EV’s are not for planet savers, ICE is still ahead ecologically, but it’s cool to see fun performance EV’s and supercars!

EVs are not planet savers and no one should tout them or think of them as such. If you want to save the world, convince everyone to walk to work and eat salad from their garden lol.

But ICE is definitely not ahead ecologically, check out the fun diagram that breaks it down for you:

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-of-electric-hybrid-and-combustion-engine-vehicles/

TL;DR: A EV produces 71% of total emissions-equivalent vs. an ICE vehicle over a 16yr/240,000km lifetime. This includes everything, including battery manufacturing, tailpipe emissions, raw mineral mining, etc.