[AVM]

[They] always have to start somewhere, and it always seems to be in the same places . . .

For now, at least, the tolls are for both ICE and EV SUVs . . . any SUV weighing over 1.6 tons, which means the Macan EV qualifies for a triple toll hike.

“Socialist mayor Anne Hidalgo (states) we're proud of having posed an eminently environmental question at a time the environment is presented as the source of all evil.”

Huh?! She got her mandated talking points confused. [Their] nefarious agenda revolves around climate change, not the environment.

EVs are environmental catastrophes, so there is that. . . . and I do not know anyone who ever suggested the environment is the source of all evil. A self-inflicted Freudian slip on her part.

AVM

Paris votes to triple parking charges for some SUVs

The cost to park SUVS driven by non-residents in Paris's central districts will triple to €18 (£15) per hour.

news.sky.com

 

[yrralis1]

[They] always have to start somewhere, and it always seems to be in the same places . . .

For now, at least, the tolls are for both ICE and EV SUVs . . . any SUV weighing over 1.6 tons, which means the Macan EV qualifies for a triple toll hike.

“Socialist mayor Anne Hidalgo (states) we're proud of having posed an eminently environmental question at a time the environment is presented as the source of all evil.”

Huh?! She got her mandated talking points confused. [Their] nefarious agenda revolves around climate change, not the environment.

EVs are environmental catastrophes, so there is that. . . . and I do not know anyone who ever suggested the environment is the source of all evil. A self-inflicted Freudian slip on her part.

AVM

Paris votes to triple parking charges for some SUVs

The cost to park SUVS driven by non-residents in Paris's central districts will triple to €18 (£15) per hour.

news.sky.com

Its not about EV . Wife used to go to a salon where the owners were French (had salon there too ) . I even got my hair cut there a few times . They were telling me that Paris has too many cars . The USA hasn't gotten. to a point where there are more cars than space to park them . Paris has .

 

[AVM]

Its not about EV . Wife used to go to a salon where the owners were French (had salon there too ) . I even got my hair cut there a few times . They were telling me that Paris has too many cars . The USA hasn't gotten. to a point where there are more cars than space to park them . Paris has .

Why didn’t the mayor then just say, there are too many cars?

Why invoke the ‘environment’?

Hmmmm. . . ???

It is like out in California right now. . . why cannot [they] just say it’s the rainy season and we are going to get some storms? . . . just like we always have for thousand of years on the west coast.

Instead, [they] now call it ‘atmospheric rivers,’ ‘bomb cyclones’ . . . and even state ‘over 1 trillion gallons of rain will fall.’

Huh?!

AVM

Edit: . . . and, apparently, now ‘biblical flooding’.

 

[grim]

For now, at least, the tolls are for both ICE and EV SUVs . . . any SUV weighing over 1.6 tons, which means the Macan EV qualifies for a triple toll hike.

@yrralis1 is correct. This referandum, decided by Parisians, is about pollution and space and the vote was: 42,415 to 35,340. Given 1,374,532 eilgible voters, it would appear that Parisians had little to no interest in this auto referendum (it was not a partisan politics election). Meh …

I cant imagine the nightmare traffic would be there during the Olympics.

Les résultats de la votation sur la tarification des SUV

La Ville de Paris organisait le 4 février une votation sur la place des SUV les plus lourds encombrants et polluants dans la capitale, et notamment sur un tarif spécial de stationnement pour ces véhicules. Toutes les infos sur cette votation.

www.paris.fr

 

[Footie]

Its not about EV . Wife used to go to a salon where the owners were French (had salon there too ) . I even got my hair cut there a few times . They were telling me that Paris has too many cars . The USA hasn't gotten. to a point where there are more cars than space to park them . Paris has .

The UK seemed to have taken a different approach with a CO2 charge for entering big cities like London which will probably have the same effect as most cars on the road are ICE cars thus trying to limit the number entering the city. It’s odd that Paris has limited it to SUV by weight because there are lots of cars which are as long as most SUVs and weigh well over 1.6ton unless that’s the headline and it actually effects all cars over 1.6ton which will be quite a lot of cars.

 

[yrralis1]

The UK seemed to have taken a different approach with a CO2 charge for entering big cities like London which will probably have the same effect as most cars on the road are ICE cars thus trying to limit the number entering the city. It’s odd that Paris has limited it to SUV by weight because there are lots of cars which are as long as most SUVs and weigh well over 1.6ton unless that’s the headline and it actually effects all cars over 1.6ton which will be quite a lot of cars.

The University of Miami is a beautiful campus . In recent years they spent nearly 1 Billion to create an eco friendly campus . They are even recycling rain water for their toilets . They built state of the art dorms and forbid freshmen from cars on campus . In fact they encourage everyone not to drive to campus with high priced parking and heavy fines if time expires . What once was easy parking is now difficult . They bought bicycles and made the campus a place where the students dont want to leave . They have everything from a dry cleaners to a salon . https://climate.miami.edu/built-environment/building-a-sustainable-u/index.html

They have tons of charging stations for EV cars .

Guess what ?? The kids still want ICE CARS !!!!!
Ice , Ice Baby !!

 

[TigerMac]

I like this Chevy video, if Chevy then Corvette please! (from my frugal European point of view)
We did some 50.000mi when we lived in the US, travelling everywhere around Albuquerque and Phoenix, almost every weekend. I think it would have taken much longer (and to less remote places) to visit in an EV today...on the other hand to get rid of emmissions in the world's big cities EVs seem to be the only viable solution today...

Btw. the French decided to "charge" heavy cars in a different way now. Paris citizens voted to collect 18€/h for parking SUVs, i. e. heavier than 1.6t ICE and 2t EVs (w/o recharging) , which will hit all Macans...not for Parisians, only for commuters and visitors.
...When we visited Paris last year with the Macan, I preferred hotel parking anyway, even though driving in the city was not worse than in Munich...

 

[reguy]

The Daytona 500 could become a two day event.

 

[AVM]

The Daytona 500 could become a two day event.

Your reference to the Daytona 500 went over my head but does speak to the topic of ICE vs EV in terms of enthusiasts.

Specifically, like many enthusiasts, I am an audiophile . . . I LOVE engine and exhaust acoustics.

I lived a couple miles from DIS for a couple years recently and could hear the cars from my back porch when they were running; like the sound of calming ocean waves to my ears.

Across the street from DIS is a Crystals (akin to White Castle). I would have the occasion to buy a sack of burgers, pull into a Crystals parking spot, roll down the windows and just listen to cars ROAR around the track on various days during the week they run throughout the year.

In fact, I am far from alone . . . there are MANY who never enter DIS for the D500, rather, prefer to simply take in the acoustic symphony from a spot out in DIS parking (tailgating) lot.

AVM

 

[4ndy]

I would forward that to your sales person and have him reply to the status of his dealership with this.
I think that’s great news for you guys..

I have shared this information with my Porsche dealership sales team. Their response was that Porsche Head office keep changing their minds and altering the UK relevant information accordingly. It does seem like nobody at Porsche has actually made a firm decision yet.

 

[TigerMac]

...Puh, when working for technical services during 24h and F1 races all over the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Germany as a student, I was happy to get away from that noise afterwards. Maybe this is the reason, why I can't hear the Macan T's pop and crackle from the regular exhaust any more when driving...after all too bad...

 

[yrralis1]

I have shared this information with my Porsche dealership sales team. Their response was that Porsche Head office keep changing their minds and altering the UK relevant information accordingly. It does seem like nobody at Porsche has actually made a firm decision yet.

They really wish they could pull it out of production and replace it with a hot selling EV . They are beginning to see that the campaign isn't working . No ICE = financial suicide .

 

[AVM]

They really wish they could pull it out of production and replace it with a hot selling EV . They are beginning to see that the campaign isn't working . No ICE = financial suicide .

BINGO!!!

Command (planned) economy = falure

Free market economy = success

Porsche will ultimately answer to consumer demand - not legislative command - or perish

AVM

 

[grim]

Why didn’t the mayor then just say, there are too many cars? Why invoke the ‘environment’?

@yrralis1 is correct. This referandum, decided by Parisians, is about pollution and space

I need to correct my assessment. This is the problem with "headlines" and "articles". Companies want you to read their articles. But they don't always tells you the ENTIRE story, just what they WANT you to know. Not to bury the lede, I conclude @AVM is correct and space is NOT the primary reason for this vote.

The visible target is SUVs, ALL SUVS, but not their ultimate goal. Its just what they can attack today without too much argument, and this is NOT about the people who live in the city but visitors TO the city. Here is the deep(er) dive into what is really going on. Follow the logic. You have to read the references, and not what journalists write.

Start here

Les résultats de la votation sur la tarification des SUV

La Ville de Paris organisait le 4 février une votation sur la place des SUV les plus lourds encombrants et polluants dans la capitale, et notamment sur un tarif spécial de stationnement pour ces véhicules. Toutes les infos sur cette votation.

www-paris-fr.translate.goog

A 6% participation rate in the vote represents apathy. Nobody cares. This doesn't involve locals. It involves visitors. But look closer, there are the referendums about green spaces, eliminating cars in the city, and they mostly all won by 50 point landslides. Pay attention to that which was NOT reported.

Now lets look at who voted. The best I got was from reddit, with a map of the districts, red voted against, blue for the referendum. There is no easy Google translate on this, you have to translate the comments. West Paris vs East Paris, from the comments, the rich vs the poor. Since the fees don't involve the locals, I don't get it but whatever, that's the vote.



Now to the REAL meat of this. Read the references from the first source. SUVs are a scourge! My interpretation of what they are saying.

• They are bigger than the average car
• Spew more pollutants
• Cost more (not sure why they care it cost the consumer more but that is their argument)
• And chances you will get injured more than a car in an accident "Cause Physics 101"

Now we get to the filet mignon part of this. What about EV SUVs, why target them????????

Life cycle costs. It NOT just driving, its the carbon to BUILD these scourges (and I presume DISPOSE of the larger vehicles) EVs are NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Targets will not be met. Start with the low hanging fruit, target those monstrous SUVs, THEN go ofter all EVs. You will not own anything. Take the bus.

And this reference? their own.

Vers des formes de mobilités plus durables | WWF France

La mobilité représente près d’un tiers de la consommation annuelle énergétique et de nos émissions de gaz à effet de serre. Allons vers de nouvelles formes de mobilité !

www-wwf-fr.translate.goog

I get from this, walk or take the bus. SUVs are just the low hanging fruit. EVs aren't good enough, etc etc etc.

This isn't about SUVs. It isn't about Space. Its about climate change. SUVs are just the easy target to BEGIN. Its no accident that the other referendums were about green spaces in the city nor that the references all referenced themselves.

At this point Im stopping. We cannot argue about climate change. No one will agree and it falls under the guidelines of a controversial subject. But at least I know WHY they voted to eliminate ALL VISITOR SUVs from Paris via punitive parking fees for visitors and I'm satisfied with the research. Its not about space. It appears to be the first step to eliminate all vehicles from the city.

 

[grim]

They bought bicycles and made the campus a place where the students dont want to leave . They have everything from a dry cleaners to a salon . https://climate.miami.edu/built-environment/building-a-sustainable-u/index.html

They have tons of charging stations for EV cars .

Guess what ?? The kids still want ICE CARS !!!!!
Ice , Ice Baby !!

From time to time I go by an area that has many bike trails through the woods. The place is kept clean, litter is rarely seen. Some time ago they added places to rent bike near the center of the area. Anytime I go by there, its full, that is, nobody rents them. What a waste of money to buy those bikes no one uses. I noticed the last time I was there the bikes are gone. How stupid was it to put bikes in suburbia where its 10 miles to the grocery store? Like Duh.

I am 100% convinced that those in Europe, and I'm not talking about people in this forum but generally, really have ZERO IDEA how big the US, and for that matter, Australia and Canada, truly is. You can't bike to a grocery store, its just a lame idea today.

 

[4ndy]

From time to time I go by an area that has many bike trails through the woods. The place is kept clean, litter is rarely seen. Some time ago they added places to rent bike near the center of the area. Anytime I go by there, its full, that is, nobody rents them. What a waste of money to buy those bikes no one uses. I noticed the last time I was there they bikes are gone. How stupid was it to put bikes in suburbia where its 10 miles to the grocery store? Like Duh.

I am 100% convinced that those in Europe, and I'm not talking about people in this forum but generally, really have ZERO IDEA how big the US, and for that matter, Australia and Canada, truly is. You can't bike to a grocery store, its just a lame idea today.
If only I was a multi millionaire!

 

[Footie]

Enjoy!!

But, honestly, it is not about one of you . . . Porsche needs to somehow convince 27,000 of you in the U.S. market alone

Not going to happen

AVM

View attachment 280763

Why do you assume Porsche need to sell 27K in the US?

For a start the ICE Macan will remain on sale by the sounds of it so it should still sell in those same quantities, the Macan EU will be additional sales at the moment and will in part come from existing Taycan owners who would ideally prefer an SUV and from EV customers from different brands, sure there will be new to EV customers too but in the US it will probably come mostly from people already converted to EV.

On a side note, was speaking to our electrician at our business and he was saying the 11Kw/H chargers are 3 phase, at least this is the case here in the UK, is this true for America and your electricians are converting your homes to 3 phase?

 

[Footie]

I have family living in Vail, Colorado and visit them regularly, often staying for months at a time. I fully realise just how massive USA is.....I also absolutely love the place and would happily live there. If only I was a multi millionaire!

Like you I do enjoy visiting the States, brilliant scenery etc but as someone who has a kid with a disability I am actually glad I live on this side of the pond.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

 

[yrralis1]

I need to correct my assessment. This is the problem with "headlines" and "articles". Companies want you to read their articles. But they don't always tells you the ENTIRE story, just what they WANT you to know. Not to bury the lede, I conclude @AVM is correct and space is NOT the primary reason for this vote.

The visible target is SUVs, ALL SUVS, but not their ultimate goal. Its just what they can attack today without too much argument, and this is NOT about the people who live in the city but visitors TO the city. Here is the deep(er) dive into what is really going on. Follow the logic. You have to read the references, and not what journalists write.

Start here

Les résultats de la votation sur la tarification des SUV

La Ville de Paris organisait le 4 février une votation sur la place des SUV les plus lourds encombrants et polluants dans la capitale, et notamment sur un tarif spécial de stationnement pour ces véhicules. Toutes les infos sur cette votation.

www-paris-fr.translate.goog

A 6% participation rate in the vote represents apathy. Nobody cares. This doesn't involve locals. It involves visitors. But look closer, there are the referendums about green spaces, eliminating cars in the city, and they mostly all won by 50 point landslides. Pay attention to that which was NOT reported.

Now lets look at who voted. The best I got was from reddit, with a map of the districts, red voted against, blue for the referendum. There is no easy Google translate on this, you have to translate the comments. West Paris vs East Paris, from the comments, the rich vs the poor. Since the fees don't involve the locals, I don't get it but whatever, that's the vote.



Now to the REAL meat of this. Read the references from the first source. SUVs are a scourge! My interpretation of what they are saying.

• They are bigger than the average car
• Spew more pollutants
• Cost more (not sure why they care it cost the consumer more but that is their argument)
• And chances you will get injured more than a car in an accident "Cause Physics 101"

Now we get to the filet mignon part of this. What about EV SUVs, why target them????????

Life cycle costs. It NOT just driving, its the carbon to BUILD these scourges (and I presume DISPOSE of the larger vehicles) EVs are NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Targets will not be met. Start with the low hanging fruit, target those monstrous SUVs, THEN go ofter all EVs. You will not own anything. Take the bus.

And this reference? their own.

Vers des formes de mobilités plus durables | WWF France

La mobilité représente près d’un tiers de la consommation annuelle énergétique et de nos émissions de gaz à effet de serre. Allons vers de nouvelles formes de mobilité !

www-wwf-fr.translate.goog

I get from this, walk or take the bus. SUVs are just the low hanging fruit. EVs aren't good enough, etc etc etc.

This isn't about SUVs. It isn't about Space. Its about climate change. SUVs are just the easy target to BEGIN. Its no accident that the other referendums were about green spaces in the city nor that the references all referenced themselves.

At this point Im stopping. We cannot argue about climate change. No one will agree and it falls under the guidelines of a controversial subject. But at least I know WHY they voted to eliminate ALL VISITOR SUVs from Paris via punitive parking fees for visitors and I'm satisfied with the research. Its not about space. It appears to be the first step to eliminate all vehicles from the city.

The part where you said they don’t want you to own anything and take the bus is where all of this is heading. Public transport will change as well. It’ll be somewhat of a combination between public transport and Uber . Its where an actual self driving vehicle is the entity that does all the driving. A person can choose a plan based upon the type of vehicle he wants to ride in. As far as driving goes, they’ll make it a hobby for people who want to go to the track. I don’t know what types of cars they will allow on the track at that point. It will take decades to get there, and I probably won’t be around to see it because I’m too old.

The only has a small faction of climate activist zealots in the USA. The majority who claim they are are really just faking it. They don’t really care about pollution, but they want to give the image that they are doing their part to make the world a better place so that everyone gives them a giant hug. It’s all a ploy to gain acceptance . It’s a social image thing for them, which is huge in the USA.

I don’t think electric cars are bad to offer. I don’t even feel that it’s a bad thing to have for a little trip around town and the person who has charging at his house convenient. However, that is very different than pulling the shelf of everything else. I am amazed that they may come appoint in time where I stand beside a V8 pick up truck guy in agreement on something. Despite our differences in our driving choices, there is that one common thread that we love our choices.