[Footie]

So, Porsche had a choice and they chose to cater to legislative policy over consumer interest

Porsche chose to build cyber security around EV and not ICE

This will not end well for the Macan EV or Porsche because, ultimately, the consumer controls legislators, policy, and the market

There is a train coming down the tracks . . .

AVM

They already know the sales figures for the Taycan in the US and still went ahead and dropped production of the ICE version of either the Macan and Boxster/Caymen shows you how unimportant they now view the US market. So I appreciate it’s going to be hard for you to accept this fact and believe that you will control what cars they make in the future but ultimately all you will control is the car you will buy not what any brand makes.

I reckon the US market will become a lot more niche for Porsche than in the past.

 

[yrralis1]

The regulation came from the UN. The UN rules nothing.
The EU parliament decided to adopt it. ✅
The US and Canada have not ❌

Porsche wont sell the ICE Macan to EU member countries and will to the US and Canada.

Thanks for clarifying . I thought it originated with the EU .
As for UN = Useless Nothing

 

[AVM]

“Teslas can charge from solar panels even if the world goes fully Mad Max and there is no more gasoline!” Elon Musk

Awesome!!!

Teslas are already lining up for one massive recall after another coming down the pike due to ‘safety issues.’

EVERYTHING online is hackable . . . including Macan EVs that adhere to nefarious UN/EU cybersecurity policies.

Porsche picked the wrong lane . . . complicit!

AVM

 

[yrralis1]

Never looked at any car as an investment, to me a car is something I use daily, a tool, nothing more. f I need to go lift stock for work or bags of cement etc then so be it because the business pays for it it’s that simple.

Drove a GT3 and a GT4RS hated both, way too raw for daily driving and completely impractical due to the noise and ride quality, as a toy to put 1000 miles or per year sure I get that but I ain’t that type of guy.

I have one friend and met a guy through my detailer who uses cars specially as investments . My friend is on a small,scale . He tuned to me one day and said "this idea of losing 30-60K every 3 years is ridiculous " . It was 2011 . He went out and bought a CPO Gt3RS when they still were plentiful and cheap . The car soared but he didn't stop there . He bought a Spyder and a 1972 911 .All three of his cars have appreciated !!!

My detailer has billionaire car collector clients . One has a penthouse A/C garage with valued ceiling the size of a football field with classic and Gt Porsches . sprinkled in he has cars like the original James Bond Aston or a 1965 Corvette with 85 miles . Its incredible . He has a second garage identical in size with Ferrari's . To a guy like that the cars are a way of diversifying wealth .

Both garages are hurricane proof and thats where my cars went when Hurricane Irma was heading our way .

There was a time where the 911 Turbo S plummeted like a rock but that has changed . The Panamera has been known to plummet too . The Taycan , in contrast is sinking . A 4S can be bought in the 70's but here is one in the 60's .. Want to know why ? It was a Lemmon buyback !! Porsche throws them right back and they end up at a non Porsche dealership ready to practically give the car away .

Pre-Owned 2021 Porsche Taycan 4S AWD 4D Sedan

Used 2021 Porsche Taycan 4S 4D Sedan Brown for sale - only $62,000. Visit Grieco Chevrolet Of Fort Lauderdale in Sunrise #FL serving Pompano Beach, Hollywood and Lauderhill #WP0AB2Y11MLA40148

www.griecochevroletfortlauderdale.com

You dont want to hear it but my service advisor has his head in his hands every time he sees a taycan roll in . I asked him "is it that bad ? " His reply " when they break , they REALLY break " !!

 

[grim]

Porsche should have banked on the consumer

You might disagree . . . ?

Porsche banks on where the profits come from. I believe you need to look at the big picture, and not just one thing. This isn't just about some UN regulation. The other problem is the EU emissions fines and how VAG and PAG were fined, and as @yrralis1 mentioned, executives indicted and sent to US and German Prison for their crimes. VAG lost billions. Look at this logically, from the POV of the stockholders. THEY are what matter. These companies do not exist for some ideologic reason. They exist to make $$$$. And no automotive company makes more money than PAG per unit, that I know.

Dieselgate hurt. The VW CEO has been indicted in the US but there is no extradition treaty with the USA

Former CEO of Volkswagen AG Charged with Conspiracy and Wire Fraud in Diesel Emissions Scandal

An indictment was unsealed earlier today charging Martin Winterkorn, 70, the former chairman of the management board of Volkswagen AG (VW), with conspiracy and wire fraud in connection with VW’s long-running scheme to cheat U.S. diesel vehicle emissions requirements.

www.justice.gov

Defrauding the US government, Defrauding US customers, etc etc etc he is "currently a fugitive from justice"

As a result of all this, for example, I am sure the MY19 Macans were held up while the EPA inspected cars. And probably other years as well. Further, I'm sure some people on this forum got checks from PCNA as a result of MPG being less than on the Monroney, or something like that. They must follow the laws of the countries they operate in.

One of those laws in the EU is now the emissions fines. Those fines are Draconian. €95 per g/km over targets 25 - 20 93.6g, 31- 34. 49.5g In 2022 they sold 91K Macans. Most Macans sold, ~85% or so, are Base and S cars. Macans spew out 243 - 251g. How are they ever going to come close to meeting those targets? You get rid of the cars that sell the most. Make them EVs. Its a lot more complicated because they can buy credits, like from Tesla. It's confusing.

2021, the VW fine was relatively small

VW Group faces €100m fine after ‘narrowly missing’ CO2 emissions targets

The Volkswagen Group faces a fine of over €100 million (£89m) after it “narrowly missed” its EU CO2 emissions targets for 2020.

www.am-online.com

But it only will get worse as the target thresholds are declining 95g to 93.6 to 49.5

In order to stay in business, they build EVs or go out of business. Its that simple.

You are trying to argue about the government mandating it. Thats on the EU parliament and the citizens of the countries who voted them into office. That IS POLITICS. They decided it, their choice. They live with it.

 

[grim]

Three posts removed that look like violating Rule #1. Lets keep this civil please.

grim

 

[grim]

My last post might look like I'm defending PAG's business decision. I'm trying to explain their business decision as I try to see it holistically. They exist to make money.

Look at what happened last year when protesters decided to glue their hand to the floor of the Porsche Museum. They couldn't go to the bathroom. Porsche just ended their day, locked the doors and went home leaving the protesters complaining about lack of food. The next day they were arrested.

I don't see Porsche bowing down to protestors. I see them complying with the laws in the countries they operate in making business decisions to keep their stockholders happy. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the US, CAFE fines are buried into the cost of the cars. If you buy a car that exceeds US emissions standards, you don't even know the car company already paid the fine and the fine was a sunk cost.

Different countries, different laws.

 

[grim]

I have one friend and met a guy through my detailer who uses cars specially as investments . My friend is on a small,scale . He tuned to me one day and said "this idea of losing 30-60K every 3 years is ridiculous " . It was 2011 . He went out and bought a CPO Gt3RS when they still were plentiful and cheap . The car soared but he didn't stop there . He bought a Spyder and a 1972 911 .All three of his cars have appreciated !!!

My detailer has billionaire car collector clients . One has a penthouse A/C garage with valued ceiling the size of a football field with classic and Gt Porsches . sprinkled in he has cars like the original James Bond Aston or a 1965 Corvette with 85 miles . Its incredible . He has a second garage identical in size with Ferrari's . To a guy like that the cars are a way of diversifying wealth .

Sometimes people have no idea how much money is really out there nor what people collect. Everyone probably heard of Jay Leno's collection or Seinfield, but Im talking not celebrities. I've heard of people buying 4 911s a year, changing colors because in person they didn't like it, dumping PTS GT3s on the floor. Someone mad that they had to go through the finance dept when buying a new car when THEY OWNED THE BANK. I walked into a Ferrari collection waiting to be shipped to Vegas. At a Porsche meet, a big meet, people pulled in with their latest model Ferraris. Why? Because it was a weekend and that was their weekend car. The Porsche was their DD.

We all live in different worlds, with regional and international difference, but car collectors want cars that appreciate. Except Boomers who want the Muscle cars they couldn't afford as a teenager and can now that have already appreciated! And NO Macan will EVER appreciate over decades. Will EVs appreciate? They are rotting on lots.

@AVM is correct upon the point that the consumer decides what they will or will not buy. The best case I know is LED bulbs. When the FTC banned incandescents bulbs, I bought a case dirt cheap. LEDs were ridiculous in price and limited in utility, cannot be in enclosure. Today the price of LEDs is much, much cheaper and can be in enclosures. So I got no issue buying them, in fact WANT them, because they ARE cheaper for TCO. That is, with all the bulbs in a house, you can see in the electric bill it went down because of the LEDs. Now multiple by years.

Despite all this "electrons cost" while gas cost "Y". it's meaning less TODAY because it's not over time. You can take this to the bank, imo, the price of Electricity will skyrocket the moment EVs become mainstream. Utilities companies aren't stupid. They KNOW what they can charge and its the price of gas. Today, they are in the "get a taste like drug dealer phase" Come get the electric cheap, want a taste? Just wait until the consumers are addicted.

If there is ever a time in the USA when of the 280,000,000 cars, say 200,000,000 are EVs, just watch the price of that electric go through the roof. Plan on it. Electric companies are not non-profits. THEY TOO exist to make money.

 

[cdelgado]

Some people make it their entire personality to complain about EVs. I for one am excited and have ordered the Macan 4.

 

[4ndy]

According to this news from Porsche Club GB I don't need to worry about buying a new electric Porsche Macan for another 2 years....Yippee !!!

 

[AVM]

Enjoy!!

But, honestly, it is not about one of you . . . Porsche needs to somehow convince 27,000 of you in the U.S. market alone

Not going to happen

AVM

 

[yrralis1]

According to this news from Porsche Club GB I don't need to worry about buying a new electric Porsche Macan for another 2 years....Yippee !!!

View attachment 280761

I would forward that to your sales person and have him reply to the status of his dealership with this.
I think that’s great news for you guys..

 

[yrralis1]

I would forward that to your sales person and have him reply to the status of his dealership with this.
I think that’s great news for you guys..

By the way if this is accurate, then they have two years to do some other things as well as renegotiate. They also have time to look at the electric sales. Much will depend on how the consumer behaves if they got this to fly.

 

[Footie]

Some people make it their entire personality to complain about EVs. I for one am excited and have ordered the Macan 4.

Congrats, hope you enjoy it, I’ve a turbo on order. We are from different sides of the ocean but I reckon we each will not see many of the roads for quite a while which in a way will be nice being that little bit unique.

 

[yrralis1]

Some people make it their entire personality to complain about EVs. I for one am excited and have ordered the Macan 4.

I don’t think anyone was complaining about EV in itself. If someone wants to go out and buy a Tesla more power to him . my dealership, just got this exotic electric vehicle division added to their group. there’s only five cars in the world and each one cost about $3 million. Had two of them at my dealership which one belong to a celebrity who I won’t mention his name as I think he probably deserves some privacy. Nonetheless, the car itself is welcome in the space.

What is not welcome is taking away the ice car. What is not welcome. Is trying to push the electric vehicle onto the person. Who’s having the car taken away as a bandage over the wound for that loss.

There is a big difference between those two concepts.

 

[AVM]

Much will depend on how the consumer behaves if they got this to fly.

Of course, [they] will adjust on the fly . . . it is all built into [their] plan

Convenient excuses are the ‘built-in’ components, such as “ongoing confusion of Brexit” . . . this is code for ‘the masses are not coming around as quickly as [we] planned

The same delay tactics just occurred in California with [their] plan to eliminate ICE vehicles

And you better believe forums like this one are used to gauge the temperature of the masses . . . Porsche leadership knows exactly what is being discussed

And pertains to exactly why there are limits to what is allowed to be said on this forum and other media outlets . . . that is just one important way in which [they] try to control the narrative and consumer mindset

AVM

 

[cdelgado]

Congrats, hope you enjoy it, I’ve a turbo on order. We are from different sides of the ocean but I reckon we each will not see many of the roads for quite a while which in a way will be nice being that little bit unique.

Hope you enjoy the Turbo. I agree, it will be nice having a “unique” car on the road until the masses get ahold of it.

 

[cdelgado]

I don’t think anyone was complaining about EV in itself. If someone wants to go out and buy a Tesla more power to him . my dealership, just got this exotic electric vehicle division added to their group. there’s only five cars in the world and each one cost about $3 million. Had two of them at my dealership which one belong to a celebrity who I won’t mention his name as I think he probably deserves some privacy. Nonetheless, the car itself is welcome in the space.

What is not welcome is taking away the ice car. What is not welcome. Is trying to push the electric vehicle onto the person. Who’s having the car taken away as a bandage over the wound for that loss.

There is a big difference between those two concepts.

The last I checked, you can buy an ICE Macan in the US.

 

[yrralis1]

The last I checked, you can buy an ICE Macan in the US.

The car has never been redesigned. They did three refreshes on the car, which is unheard of in Porsche land. The current vehicle was released in 2022 following that pattern we are due for a change for the better. Instead, we are being phased out.

There once was a time with Porsche was constantly pursuing more, better, faster. Right now we still have the car but it’s in a period of stagnation. I would rather have that and nothing at all, but that doesn’t mean it’s good.

 

[Footie]

Hope you enjoy the Turbo. I agree, it will be nice having a “unique” car on the road until the masses get ahold of it.

At least we aren’t in Asia because I am sure there will be loads of them on the roads. ☺