[Footie]

Beats sitting for an hour to recharge any day.

Wouldn’t know, have never done it.

 

[ericsan13]

You’ll need more than a fire blanket to stop an EV fire.

No, you won't:

Could a Giant Fireproof Blanket Be the Solution for Stubborn EV Battery Fires?

Watch a fire department use a fire-retardant blanket to smother a Nissan Leaf fire.

www.thedrive.com

How to control EV car fires

How to stop EV car fires - putting out an EV car fire is different than putting out a normal car fire. In this article, you will read why.

fireisolator.com

Wouldn’t know, have never done it.

On the other hand, how about driving and sometimes waiting to get gas every single week. Time adds up.

 

[Footie]

No, you won't:

Could a Giant Fireproof Blanket Be the Solution for Stubborn EV Battery Fires?

Watch a fire department use a fire-retardant blanket to smother a Nissan Leaf fire.

www.thedrive.com

How to control EV car fires

How to stop EV car fires - putting out an EV car fire is different than putting out a normal car fire. In this article, you will read why.

fireisolator.com

On the other hand, how about driving and sometimes waiting to get gas every single week. Time adds up.

Regarding fires at gas stations, I couldn’t count the number of tanker deliveries I have done over these many years but if there’s a fire whilst a tanker is delivering you basically check the direction the wind is coming from and run in that direction.

Petrol itself isn’t combustible it’s the fumes which are incredibly combustible.

 

[yrralis1]

Regarding fires at gas stations, I couldn’t count the number of tanker deliveries I have done over these many years but if there’s a fire whilst a tanker is delivering you basically check the direction the wind is coming from and run in that direction.

Petrol itself isn’t combustible it’s the fumes which are incredibly combustible.

Don t you see that most here dont want this ? Its like putting lipstick on a pig . Its still going top be a pig . So they can make all the fancy charging stations or give incentives and it won't change the sentiment . As much as a company tries to make the car similar tp an ICE car it can't be an ICE car . The people pushing this are not drivers . I am all in favor of offering EVs but not taking away ICE to do it . Let the market take away ICE ,

You are in Europe . You have climate kid . There is a pro EV campaign . Sure the USA has PLENTY of cults that even more detrimental than the clean energy cult . Its thus is not number 1 on my hit parade but that doesn't make it good.

Perahps I am just selfish . I dont give a @@@@ !!! I think there are far bigger problems in the world than the little bit of dirt that comes out of my car which brings me joy. I dont care about the price of gas either and feel electricity can become expensive too. In fact EV's are expensive a nd so are their components .

I know many say this is political but its not political for me . If a politician has 10 other policies that like I will still honestly say that I dont like this . I think people who make it political are just afraid to say they disagree with their number 1 guy on anything .

If tomorrow Porsche made an all EV 911 I would test drive a Z06 Corvette .

I hope Porsche thinks about the repeat buyers in North America that they could lose . Its not just the USA . I talk with a group of Porsche owning Canadians and they are all on the same page with this .
Its a big chunk of territory that Porsche ought to consider .

 

[grim]

I will throw headlines

When Will Fossil Fuels Run Out? - Infinity Renewables.

Some might argue that we will never run out of oil but the likelihood is that to drill at the depths needed it wouldn’t be cost effective to do so. So at some point in the not to distant future fuel prices will go up dramatically which is why synthetic fuel will take the lead but without a doubt it is much more expensive to produce than what we are currently paying so at some point everyone will be questioning can they afford to run their motors or do those long journeys.

This is an administrative note.

This part of the discussion ends here as a violation of the "NO political/controversial posts are permitted," rule and I will provide the courtesy of why. You have been active the last month, productive, and I don't want to stifle that.

Why is it controversial?

Peak Oil means the theorized point in time when the maximum rate of global oil production will occur) when was the following written by the Chief US Geologist? "The peak of production will soon be passed, possibly within 3 years"

1919

Here are 36 predictions of Peak Oil compiled by the US IEA. The UK Dept of Energy predicted 2000. Guess they were wrong. The IEA said 2014. Since oil was discovered in PA in the late 1880s, they have ALWAYS been wrong. Here is an article from 2011. They guy who invented the term was .... WRONG.

In the late 1940s, Hubbert heard another geologist say that 500 years of oil supply remained in the ground. This couldn't possibly be true, he thought. He started doing his own analysis. In 1956, he unveiled the theory that would forever be linked to his name. He declared that U.S. oil production would hit its peak somewhere between 1965 and 1970.

Wrong again. So aren't the arguments about price. It wasn't cost effective to do fracking, but now fracking is common, there is much more oil, and the cost accepted. Oil predictions are predictably wrong. No one has any idea what technologies will be developed or, for example, what oil is technically retrieval or where new oil fields exist ... AKA You Don't Know What You Don't Know.

Why are controversial subjects not permitted?

People are passionate about their beliefs. Both sides will argue forever, neither side convincing the other side of anything. You quoted an article written by a company selling "reusable energy". That not biased in any way? Someone will quote something like this

Don't worry, we'll never run out of oil

When will we run out of oil? 50 years? 100? As it turns out, we may never actually run out of this incredibly useful substance.

interestingengineering.com

And it will go back and forth forever, without resolution, ending up with hard feelings on both sides. Both sides will say "Your article is BS", etc etc etc. That is not the purpose of this forum. It ends here now. Go discuss predictions on oil elsewhere on the internet. Any further discussion on when oil runs out will result in actions on anyone's account. This rule exists to prevent members from arguing about something that, as far as I can tell, has an abysmal track record for predicting peak oil but will result in members arguing endlessly with each other.

Back to our normal discussion. Don't rebut this decision, just move on with the normal discussion.

thank you

 

[grim]

Let the market take away ICE , You are in Europe . You have climate kid . There is a pro EV campaign .

In the US, the market will decide, not any mandate. The stocks are down, EVs are rotting on lots.

EVs are running out of customers — and some dealers don't want them anymore

EVs from brands like Ford and Hyundai are piling up on dealer lots. Some dealers are saying enough is enough.

www.businessinsider.com

The press is giving them a hard time. In the end, money talks. As profits decline, the companies will give up, like Volvo just did with Polestar..

Volvo shares jump 20% on higher sales, plans to stop Polestar funding

Volvo Cars shares surged more than 20% on Thursday after the Swedish automaker announced that it will stop funding subsidiary Polestar Automotive.

www.cnbc.com

Volvo Cars shares surged more than 20% on Thursday after the Swedish automaker announced it will stop funding subsidiary Polestar Automotive.

 

[Robert M]

No, you won't:

Better tell every fire department in the US then, because right now they're dumping 100K gallons and chemicals on them to put the fires out. And then the cars are being stored in containers at salvage yards since they tend to reignite. Who'd have thought that could all be eliminated with a blanket?

 

[yrralis1]

In the US, the market will decide, not any mandate. The stocks are down, EVs are rotting on lots.

EVs are running out of customers — and some dealers don't want them anymore

EVs from brands like Ford and Hyundai are piling up on dealer lots. Some dealers are saying enough is enough.

www.businessinsider.com

The press is giving them a hard time. In the end, money talks. As profits decline, the companies will give up, like Volvo just did with Polestar..

Volvo shares jump 20% on higher sales, plans to stop Polestar funding

Volvo Cars shares surged more than 20% on Thursday after the Swedish automaker announced that it will stop funding subsidiary Polestar Automotive.

www.cnbc.com

Volvo Cars shares surged more than 20% on Thursday after the Swedish automaker announced it will stop funding subsidiary Polestar Automotive.

The Headquarters in Georgia is the largest Porsche has outside of Germany yet they won't move entirely. They really are facing headwinds .

 

[bdy0627]

I mentioned appliances and believe an EV Macan is a true appliance, which to an enthusiast is not a good thing. Here is how you know if you drive an appliance. The more boxes you tick, the more its an appliance, imo of course.

When you get into the car do you turn on the radio, actually listen to it? Then you drive an appliance. Cars that are not appliances are cars you drive to DRIVE, to hear the engine, which is the "music".

Do you just turn the car off, not care so much how dirty it is? You take it to a car wash when someone asks you why its so dirty? If so, you drive an appliance. Care that are not appliances you detail religiously or take to a detailer. Any dirt on it, you get out the quick detailer and wipe off, especially bird poop and sap.

When you get out of your car and park it, do you wistfully look back at for one last glance? NO? Then you have an appliance. Those that do not view their cars as appliances take a quick look back, or some even VISIT their garage.

When its time to trade the car do you do some quick math, figure out the monthly payment, and just dump it? If so, you own an appliance. Otherwise, you fret about how much you will miss it, how much it mattered to you.

Are you an ideologue, who buys things based on the zeitgeist? Go with the crowd or fashion? Do you make purchases based on what the world thinks or what YOU think. If you do, you are probably buying an appliance and not something you cherish.

When you drive from A to B, are you in a rush to get there and forget the entire drive? Then you are driving an appliance.

Do you ever take your car out for spin, JUST TO DRIVE? Rarely? Then you are driving an appliance.

My latest dishwasher ticks all these boxes, and I mean dishwasher.

• I don't want to hear it
• It cleans itself
• I NEVER want to look at it
• I don't care about the price and do the math to get the new one never wanting to keep the old one
• I DID do the research to find out which one was "best" and not which one I would care about
• I AM in a rush to finish its work
• And I don't gush or fuss over it. Just wash the dishes and be done, in the background, and never think about it.

I think it's a little more nuanced really than just all EVs are like appliances. They provide a very different experience no doubt than a loud, rumbling gas engine vehicle does. The shocking suddenness of acceleration in an EV with almost no motor noise is intoxicating in its own way, as is the continued acceleration even as you hold the pedal down for several seconds. There is no slight pause, jolt, or pullback that typically happens with a gas engine with lots of gears. It does put a smile on my face when I'm next to someone who thinks they have a fast gas car (or truck since I'm in Wisconsin!) and when the light turns green they slam the pedal and create a thunderous rumble while my car makes almost no noise at all and effortlessly leaves their car behind.

As for your questions, I drive 45 minutes each way to work early in the morning and fairly late in the evening, and quickly turn on music, a podcast, or audiobook to learn things and pass the time when I am driving. I may still be rapidly passing cars on the 2 lane highway and hugging the road on a roundabout, both of which are rather enjoyable, but I'm listening to something as I do it. I guess that's 1 tick on your scale indicating I'm driving an appliance.

I definitely like the Taycan to be clean and shiny but I just take it through a no touch car wash to clean it - another point toward appliance.

I love the aesthetics of the Taycan and after I park, probably 70% of the time I glance back and admire it. That's one tick against appliance.

When it's time to sell I'm usually so excited about what's replacing the vehicle I'm currently driving that I'm thinking about the new vehicle not the one it's replacing. Otherwise, I doubt I would be replacing it. So I guess that's another appliance tick.

I tend to buy what I find appealing and I do like to drive a car that people notice. I bought my first Tesla in 2015 before most had ever heard of them. I bought the Taycan 2 years ago, again well before most had heard of them and when there were not many on the street.

Do I take my car out for an unnecessary spin? Only when I first get it or when showing it to others. I drive enough on a daily basis that I don't typically want to drive even more but I do thoroughly enjoy heading out for dinner or other non commute drives in the Taycan and taking it on a spirited drive.

 

[grim]

Do I take my car out for an unnecessary spin? Only when I first get it or when showing it to others. I drive enough on a daily basis that I don't typically want to drive even more ….

There’s the tell. Its about how the car makes you feel, do you want to drive it because it makes you feel good vs you drive it because its a “tool“ to get a job done, you have to use the tool.

Appliance buyers view vehicles as a means to an end, no different than a mechanics tool or their dishwasher. The tool can be expensive like snap-on or cheap bought at a box store. Those with passion for their vehicles view them much differently.

See these people? Passionate, likely not appliances to them

https://www.macanforum.com/threads/how-many-times-a-day-do-you-visit-your-garage.189868/

Appliance buyers dont drive just to feel good driving nor do they visit their cars, wherever they are parked. Non-appliance buyers view things far differently. Read some of those answers … passion.

Do you visit the kitchen to admire your dishwasher?

 

[ericsan13]

Appliance buyers dont drive just to feel good driving nor do they visit their cars, wherever they are parked. Non-appliance buyers view things far differently. Read some of those answers … passion.

Do you visit the kitchen to admire your dishwasher?

Not sure if I get your point here, but art is subjective. Do I visit my EV in the garage? Probably a couple times a week!

Do people admire their dishwasher? I am pretty sure a lot of people do do just that lol. Maybe a fraction of the overall population, but the same could be said about people who appreciate cars.

 

[ericsan13]

The editors POV is the same I mentioned. Sooner or later there will be a breakthrough in chemistry and the early adopters will be crying, more or less.

This is inevitable. There is no Moore's Law for chemistry or physics, but innovation will occur as EVs move out of the realm of the early adopters into the mainstream, or possible the egg before the chicken, etc. Perhaps Toyota always knew, it is premature.

Sooner or later our cars will be powered by nuclear, arc reactors, or whatever and ICE and EV buyers will be crying, more or less. This is inevitable lol.

Lithium ion batteries have been around in cell phones for decades, but that doesn't stop anyone from buying a li-ion cell phone. EV buyers are already reaping the advantages of EVs today. The only thing that might hurt is if some magic innovation with an X multiplier on range, that would cause extreme depreciation. Won't hold my breath though.

But one thing the AAA survey shows is that EV buyers largely don't regret going EV.

Most EV buyers have no regrets about going electric, AAA survey says

Many car buyers are still unsure about electric cars, but those that do take the plunge tend to be happy with their purchases, according to a new AAA survey. Initial concerns, such as range anxiety, tend to disappear over time, AAA said. Ownership costs are also fairly close to gasoline cars...

www.digitaltrends.com

The value is already being delivered and consumed regardless of whatever future tech may come out. If a better turbo or sound system comes out, you don't regret your car purchase today.

 

[rickrobillard1]

Talking with my local Porsche dealership sales manager today about the new EV Macan and he said that they have not taken any genuine orders for either model yet Apparently there is lots of interest and wannabe test drivers....but no actual deposits. They also have a showroom full of new Taycan EVs, some with big discounts off the sticker price.

It will be interesting to see how much interest translates into sales. I think there is a certain % of early adapters who will buy but my guess is sales will fall short of manufacturer expectations. IMO it’s not that there is anything “wrong” with the EV Macan per se.

 

[bbh@aol.com]

I am I the same boat I liked owning a first gen Macan now a third gen, but the fourth gen or EV is a no go for me. My wife is up for a new car soon amd sure what to get if we don’t get her a base Macan or Macan t. Ty e thought of getting her another Audi sickens me and I would not touch a BMW, Mercedes or Land Rover with a ten foot poll.

My wife loves her hot shot "S Line" Q3, and I love the regular gas it uses.

 

[grim]

Lithium ion batteries have been around in cell phones for decades, but that doesn't stop anyone from buying a li-ion cell phone.

Thats a false equivalence, not remotely the same. Lithium button batteries, iPhone batteries, and the like are dirt cheap, cheap, and consumable. I hardly think anyone thinks the battery pack in an EV is cheap and disposable. Take an iPad into an Apple store and see if they will replace the battery. Good luck with that. Nope, just buy a new iPad.

Compare Apples to Apples (😅) and not to oranges. The moment Toyota or some company produces an EV that charges in 10 minutes, then EVs become comparable to ICE for convenience, and at the same time, is priced in the marketplace comparable to the ICE version, game over.

Obviously the Macan EV doesn't even come close.

 

[grim]

But one thing the AAA survey shows is that EV buyers largely don't regret going EV.

Most EV buyers have no regrets about going electric, AAA survey says

Many car buyers are still unsure about electric cars, but those that do take the plunge tend to be happy with their purchases, according to a new AAA survey. Initial concerns, such as range anxiety, tend to disappear over time, AAA said. Ownership costs are also fairly close to gasoline cars...

www.digitaltrends.com

Your are quoting a FOUR YEAR OLD article. Thats like Dinosaur epochs away. How about something a bit more recent? Of COURSE Early Adopters don't regret it. Thats what Early Adopters do. THEY DO NOT CARE. Whatever an early adopter buys can be a piece a junk and they think its the best thing since canned corned beef.

How about today?

1/18/24

Where are some Tesla drivers experiencing buyer’s remorse?

Answer: Chicago.

www.govtech.com

They woke up frozen

9/4/23

Buyer’s Remorse: Why Are 20% Of Early EV Adopters Now Defecting to Internal Combustion?

Is our honeymoon with the EV finally over? And what is truly the most environmentally-friendly technology?

www.motorbiscuit.com

"one in five early adopters of EV cars and trucks are returning to gas-powered vehicles. As a result, used EV prices are freefalling."

10/9/23

https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2023/10/19/nearly-half-of-ev-households-reverted-to-ice-vehicle-for-next-purchase-study-shows/

Nearly half of households with non-Tesla electric vehicles (EVs) made an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle their next auto purchase

EV drivers returning to ICE, GM-powered electric RV, Nissan cyberpunk EV: Today’s Car News

An electric RV is grounded on GM’s Ultium platform. Nissan shows an electric coupe concept with a creative cyberpunk edge, just as the Cybertruck gets a delivery date of November 30. And why are more drivers of non-Tesla EVs returning to gasoline models? This and more, here at Green Car Reports...

www.greencarreports.com

references the same S&P Mobility study from 10/23. Half of EV buyers, Tesla excepted, go back to ICE

SOURCE, copyrighted material

Does the auto industry have an EV loyalty problem?

The easy headline is: “3 out of 4 Luxury EV Households Stick with EVs for Next Vehicle.” But remove Tesla’s industry-leading loyalty numbers from the equation, and the percentage for the rest of the industry falls off sharply. That could pose a problem for legacy automakers getting people to...

www.spglobal.com

France, 8/23

Why some people who bought an electric car now regret their choice

A survey in France reveals that over half of owners of an EV now wish they had made a different decision

english.elpais.com

references this study here

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta.com

54% of EV buyers in France REGRET buying the car because or rising Electricity Costs. Is not cheap electric a main reason for buying an EV? You had to know the electric companies know EXACTLY what the market would bear, that is, the cost of gas. French market penetration is much more than US market penetration. Lets run that through google translate

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta-com.translate.goog

They even show the spreadsheet. I would pay the most attention to the French survey. France falls under EU laws and ICE is being mandated away by law. And they don't seem to happy about it. 54% regret is a LOT for early adopters. And the market is 12%.

 

[yrralis1]

Your are quoting a FOUR YEAR OLD article. Thats like Dinosaur epochs away. How about something a bit more recent? Of COURSE Early Adopters don't regret it. Thats what Early Adopters do. THEY DO NOT CARE. Whatever an early adopter buys can be a piece a junk and they think its the best thing since canned corned beef.

How about today?

1/18/24

Where are some Tesla drivers experiencing buyer’s remorse?

Answer: Chicago.

www.govtech.com

They woke up frozen

9/4/23

Buyer’s Remorse: Why Are 20% Of Early EV Adopters Now Defecting to Internal Combustion?

Is our honeymoon with the EV finally over? And what is truly the most environmentally-friendly technology?

www.motorbiscuit.com

"one in five early adopters of EV cars and trucks are returning to gas-powered vehicles. As a result, used EV prices are freefalling."

10/9/23

https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2023/10/19/nearly-half-of-ev-households-reverted-to-ice-vehicle-for-next-purchase-study-shows/

Nearly half of households with non-Tesla electric vehicles (EVs) made an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle their next auto purchase

EV drivers returning to ICE, GM-powered electric RV, Nissan cyberpunk EV: Today’s Car News

An electric RV is grounded on GM’s Ultium platform. Nissan shows an electric coupe concept with a creative cyberpunk edge, just as the Cybertruck gets a delivery date of November 30. And why are more drivers of non-Tesla EVs returning to gasoline models? This and more, here at Green Car Reports...

www.greencarreports.com

references the same S&P Mobility study from 10/23. Half of EV buyers, Tesla excepted, go back to ICE

SOURCE, copyrighted material

Does the auto industry have an EV loyalty problem?

The easy headline is: “3 out of 4 Luxury EV Households Stick with EVs for Next Vehicle.” But remove Tesla’s industry-leading loyalty numbers from the equation, and the percentage for the rest of the industry falls off sharply. That could pose a problem for legacy automakers getting people to...

www.spglobal.com

France, 8/23

Why some people who bought an electric car now regret their choice

A survey in France reveals that over half of owners of an EV now wish they had made a different decision

english.elpais.com

references this study here

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta.com

54% of EV buyers in France REGRET buying the car because or rising Electricity Costs. Is not cheap electric a main reason for buying an EV? You had to know the electric companies know EXACTLY what the market would bear, that is, the cost of gas. French market penetration is much more than US market penetration. Lets run that through google translate

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta-com.translate.goog

They even show the spreadsheet. I would pay the most attention to the French survey. France falls under EU laws and ICE is being mandated away by law. And they don't seem to happy about it. 54% regret is a LOT for early adopters. And the market is 12%.

What a mess. Gasoline has twice the energy of the LiPo batteries and it’s cheaper until those things change. It makes no sense other if somebody’s buying this vehicle on some level of virtue.

They’re also needs to be a support system to accommodate this type of a change, and no one is building anything meaningful to do it.

In some of the colder regions were blackouts are even common. This is even more of a disaster. In some of the southern region, where hurricane evacuations are sometimes on a split second, it poses another hurdle.

It’s been very quiet on this forum. When the original Macan was launched 10 years ago, it was a lot of excitement. I can only speak for myself, but I am bummed. I love my Macan and feel horrible that it is coming to an end at the height of the success .

 

[grim]

It’s been very quiet on this forum. When the original Macan was launched 10 years ago, it was a lot of excitement. I can only speak for myself, but I am bummed. I love my Macan and feel horrible that it is coming to an end at the height of the success .

Ten years ago the people coming here were either people like us, coming from the sports cars, some previous other marque sports sedan buyers, and some moving up the marque food chain within the SUV world that could get a Porsche SUV. About all were car enthusiasts. I know people dont like to hear it but I think an appliance does not appeal to the car enthusiasts.

PAG has no choice, they comply or die financially. But there is hope. Life has been extended again through MY25 for NA and I presume Oz. That gives them two years to see how sales go in the EU. They sold Euro Spec and US spec Porsches before. Surely they can do it again if the profit exists. I cant see NA sales being like MY14 sales, the enthusiasm seems lacking from long time pcar owners. That is why they need “conquests”, converts who never owned a Porsche before.

You can’t miss something you never had.

 

[ericsan13]

Thats a false equivalence, not remotely the same. Lithium button batteries, iPhone batteries, and the like are dirt cheap, cheap, and consumable. I hardly think anyone thinks the battery pack in an EV is cheap and disposable. Take an iPad into an Apple store and see if they will replace the battery. Good luck with that. Nope, just buy a new iPad.

Compare Apples to Apples (😅) and not to oranges. The moment Toyota or some company produces an EV that charges in 10 minutes, then EVs become comparable to ICE for convenience, and at the same time, is priced in the marketplace comparable to the ICE version, game over.

Obviously the Macan EV doesn't even come close.

I think you missed the point, which is that technology will continue to advance. The Macan EV already charges 10% to 80% in 20 minutes - will making that 10 minutes really be a game changer? I highly doubt it as most EV owners have the privilege to avoid gas stations and charge at home.

The moment that...is very far away. You can always make the argument don't buy something new because it will be eventually replaced by something better.

 

[ericsan13]

Your are quoting a FOUR YEAR OLD article. Thats like Dinosaur epochs away. How about something a bit more recent? Of COURSE Early Adopters don't regret it. Thats what Early Adopters do. THEY DO NOT CARE. Whatever an early adopter buys can be a piece a junk and they think its the best thing since canned corned beef.

How about today?

1/18/24

Where are some Tesla drivers experiencing buyer’s remorse?

Answer: Chicago.

www.govtech.com

They woke up frozen

9/4/23

Buyer’s Remorse: Why Are 20% Of Early EV Adopters Now Defecting to Internal Combustion?

Is our honeymoon with the EV finally over? And what is truly the most environmentally-friendly technology?

www.motorbiscuit.com

"one in five early adopters of EV cars and trucks are returning to gas-powered vehicles. As a result, used EV prices are freefalling."

10/9/23

https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2023/10/19/nearly-half-of-ev-households-reverted-to-ice-vehicle-for-next-purchase-study-shows/

Nearly half of households with non-Tesla electric vehicles (EVs) made an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle their next auto purchase

EV drivers returning to ICE, GM-powered electric RV, Nissan cyberpunk EV: Today’s Car News

An electric RV is grounded on GM’s Ultium platform. Nissan shows an electric coupe concept with a creative cyberpunk edge, just as the Cybertruck gets a delivery date of November 30. And why are more drivers of non-Tesla EVs returning to gasoline models? This and more, here at Green Car Reports...

www.greencarreports.com

references the same S&P Mobility study from 10/23. Half of EV buyers, Tesla excepted, go back to ICE

SOURCE, copyrighted material

Does the auto industry have an EV loyalty problem?

The easy headline is: “3 out of 4 Luxury EV Households Stick with EVs for Next Vehicle.” But remove Tesla’s industry-leading loyalty numbers from the equation, and the percentage for the rest of the industry falls off sharply. That could pose a problem for legacy automakers getting people to...

www.spglobal.com

France, 8/23

Why some people who bought an electric car now regret their choice

A survey in France reveals that over half of owners of an EV now wish they had made a different decision

english.elpais.com

references this study here

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta.com

54% of EV buyers in France REGRET buying the car because or rising Electricity Costs. Is not cheap electric a main reason for buying an EV? You had to know the electric companies know EXACTLY what the market would bear, that is, the cost of gas. French market penetration is much more than US market penetration. Lets run that through google translate

Hausse des prix de l’électricité : 54% des propriétaires de VE regrettent leur achat - Monta

Alors qu’en ce 1er août, les prix de l’électricité augmentent de 10% suite à la fin du bouclier tarifaire, les tensions sur le marché de l'électricité

monta-com.translate.goog

They even show the spreadsheet. I would pay the most attention to the French survey. France falls under EU laws and ICE is being mandated away by law. And they don't seem to happy about it. 54% regret is a LOT for early adopters. And the market is 12%.

A huge caveat is that the S&P Global Mobility study is that “The household data does not necessarily measure whether an EV has been replaced by another EV,” S&P explains. Many households own one EV and one gas-powered or hybrid car. "

One of the large demographics of folks 'returning to ICE' are folks who are renting and do not have L2 charger in their home. 80% is still a very large amount of people who have no regrets.

Here is a study that shows 40% have buyers remorse:

Study Shows That 40 Percent of New Car Buyers Regret Their Purchase

A recent study conducted by Lending Tree shows that nearly 40 percent of new car buyers regret their decision. Here is a breakdown.

www.motorbiscuit.com

So EV still ahead of the curve.

Also rising electric costs in one country at a given point in time overstates the sentiment of regret. Same thing with the Tesla Chicago owner's remorse. Point is most EV owners are living regret-free and that number will go up as infrastructure and knowledge improves.