[M GTS]

I just find it odd that the amount of negative posts towards a car that most say they have no interest in or is it a case that secretly they are interested but don’t want to come out and admit it.

I think its more to the point showing how much we LUV our Macan ICE SUV's hence the resistance to EV no matter the certain plus's they have.
We are having similar forum arguments here in Oz I'm involved with in another brand of Enthusiast's.
We have similar circumstances as the US and most other countries, infrastructure/support old house's/buildings AND we like the US have a large % of travellers from State to State/off roading is huge and people living out in the sticks/the bush.
(on another subject just recently 2 States have introduced NO new homes being built from here on can have GAS connected, electric only)
The main hwy's obviously have chargers and the only win win having one is IF your a city slicker more than anything to date.
Our socialist Gov (pardon the mention Grim) is incentivising EV sales like mad, to date EV's get away with far less tax's than ICE owners, prior they paid nothing !.
EV sales 2023 made up around 3% - to date already to 7% due to more chinese brands being introduced, Tesla no1 obviously having been the first into the country years ago.

According to the study, 53 per cent of Australians surveyed said the price premium EVs carry over combustion-powered vehicles was their top concern. 52 per cent of those surveyed said charging times were their top concern, followed by a lack of public EV charging infrastructure at 51 per cent.

Electric vehicles and some low emission petrol-electric hybrid vehicles receive a concession on motor vehicle tax. There's a small discount on registration costs depending on the tare weight of your car and whether you use it for business or private purposes.

Footie, our country in todays world can't organise a chook raffle, I would think like most other countries suffering the lack of infrastructure foresight/new hospitals/cost of living going OTT/aged care costing near to A$1M to look after yourself in a private facility/more and more people living on the streets but its more important to increase EV sales - I suspect this is a common theme world over.
As well as increasing migration numbers even though we can't service it.

As for the Macan EV, I actually really like the look of it and wait to see it in the flesh (sadly) for as mentioned we're enthusiasts, I luv my GTS sound, the feel, its handicaps and all for thats a ICE car, I can't see any "soul" in a EV at this stage, maybe I'm too old (63) and resisting change but give me "fumes" and that V6TT sound driven through the PDK for I luv its character.

 

[ericsan13]

I think its more to the point showing how much we LUV our Macan ICE SUV's hence the resistance to EV no matter the certain plus's they have.
We are having similar forum arguments here in Oz I'm involved with in another brand of Enthusiast's.
We have similar circumstances as the US and most other countries, infrastructure/support old house's/buildings AND we like the US have a large % of travellers from State to State/off roading is huge and people living out in the sticks/the bush.
(on another subject just recently 2 States have introduced NO new homes being built from here on can have GAS connected, electric only)
The main hwy's obviously have chargers and the only win win having one is IF your a city slicker more than anything to date.
Our socialist Gov (pardon the mention Grim) is incentivising EV sales like mad, to date EV's get away with far less tax's than ICE owners, prior they paid nothing !.
EV sales 2023 made up around 3% - to date already to 7% due to more chinese brands being introduced, Tesla no1 obviously having been the first into the country years ago.

According to the study, 53 per cent of Australians surveyed said the price premium EVs carry over combustion-powered vehicles was their top concern. 52 per cent of those surveyed said charging times were their top concern, followed by a lack of public EV charging infrastructure at 51 per cent.

Electric vehicles and some low emission petrol-electric hybrid vehicles receive a concession on motor vehicle tax. There's a small discount on registration costs depending on the tare weight of your car and whether you use it for business or private purposes.

Footie, our country in todays world can't organise a chook raffle, I would think like most other countries suffering the lack of infrastructure foresight/new hospitals/cost of living going OTT/aged care costing near to A$1M to look after yourself in a private facility/more and more people living on the streets but its more important to increase EV sales - I suspect this is a common theme world over.
As well as increasing migration numbers even though we can't service it.

As for the Macan EV, I actually really like the look of it and wait to see it in the flesh (sadly) for as mentioned we're enthusiasts, I luv my GTS sound, the feel, its handicaps and all for thats a ICE car, I can't see any "soul" in a EV at this stage, maybe I'm too old (63) and resisting change but give me "fumes" and that V6TT sound driven through the PDK for I luv its character.

On the value point, I had posted an article earlier about how equivalent cars are cheaper to own as EV, sometimes before incentives. The question is whether Porsche buyers will care that much about value. I see affluent Porsche buyers buying because of brand name, and much less concerned with pricing and tech. Will it drive and excite them as a Porsche?

Aussie concerns 2 and 3 is a really going to be dependent on driving habits, home charging situation, and the very slow infrastructure changes. Yes, government concern is currently focused on climate change (affecting the entire world) vs. the people living on the streets (likely not contributing to society). But let's leave that aside since it can get extremely political and debatable. My point is, there are EV and infrastructure incentives and incentives generally work. Give it time.

I'm still holding out for final details on the Macan EV and I love love the ICE sound too. But I also suspect we'll be a dying breed since eventually younger folks may see it logically that cars need not make noise or produce smelly, polluting tailpipe emissions. I am curious to see how Porsche brings the typical joy and excitement to the Macan EV.

Controversial but PDK pales in comparison to Toyota's hybrid drive train and even more compared to buttery smooth and linear EV acceleration. I am starting to see shifting as oddly mechanical and unnecessary. But to each their own.

 

[grim]

On the value point, I had posted an article earlier about how equivalent cars are cheaper to own as EV, sometimes before incentives.

Thats 18 month old. This study is new, 3 months old and its not some auto journalists writing. The perspective is holistic, the entire cost

OVERCHARGED EXPECTATIONS:
UNMASKING THE TRUE COSTS OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES
October, 2023

It looks holistically at the cost. The EVs are not selling, Some EV companies lose money on every car, and the best quote was about there is no Moore's law for batteries. Don't hold your breath about battery costs coming down.

You can read the report and argue either side, both sides like to put out their reports. They evangelize and try to sell their points. Youtube is full of doom and gloom. And the other side too. Take your pick.

The question is whether Porsche buyers will care that much about value. I see affluent Porsche buyers buying because of brand name, and much less concerned with pricing and tech. Will it drive and excite them as a Porsche?

The affluent are the 911 crowd. I agree, they won't care much. This is not the 911 crowd. This is the utilitarian appliance buyer crowd. These are utility vehicles meant for DD, for hauling cargo and people. They are far different crowds, although some people definitely own both the sports car and SUV. Since this is the SUV crowd, then most definitely they care about value We got threads worried about MPG!

Many of the new car buyers moved up from Acuras and Lexus, and constantly compare the vehicles. Baruth’s article in TTAC explained this well

Avoidable Contact: Cayenne Won't Help Ya, Cayenne Won't Do You No Good.

“When,” I asked her, “did you realize that you, were, well, you know, an actual prostitute?”“Well,” she said, rubbing her cigarette out in the waffle-patterned wrought-iron table, shielding her eyes against the sun as it set in the distance, “I’d been dancing for a while, and there was kind of a...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

 

[Footie]

I genuinely feel for you guys over in the States, for some reason that I am sure someone can explain the powers at be chose 110v for your power supply when most of the rest of the world went for 220v and there was the one picked for charging EVs. So I do see the point you make when you complain about the cost involve to adapt to a decent supply to take an EV.

All the above will be a serious stumbling point for EVs to catch on in the US in particular but I will say that most motoring journalists are very negative towards EV to the point that some of their comments are laughable. One example was a UK journalist on YouTube called Harry’s Garage who reviewed the new i5M60, lots of complains some I happened to agree with but he kept going on about its excessive weight yet recommended going for the hybrid version instead, the i5M60 is 2400Kgs so properly heavy but the 550e he suggested weighs 2230kg so hardly much of a difference. LOL

I don’t doubt the Macan EV will get its fair share of bad press because quite if it does impress them most don’t want the change and will excuses not to like it.

The only reviews where you get more balanced opinions is the Scandinavian journalists because they don’t have issues with supply or charging infrastructure which suggests to me that when we all finally catch up to them we all will be a bit more interested in the technology.

 

[ericsan13]

Thats 18 month old. This study is new, 3 months old and its not some auto journalists writing. The perspective is holistic, the entire cost

OVERCHARGED EXPECTATIONS:
UNMASKING THE TRUE COSTS OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES
October, 2023

It looks holistically at the cost. The EVs are not selling, Some EV companies lose money on every car, and the best quote was about there is no Moore's law for batteries. Don't hold your breath about battery costs coming down.

You can read the report and argue either side, both sides like to put out their reports. They evangelize and try to sell their points. Youtube is full of doom and gloom. And the other side too. Take your pick.

Wiki: The Texas Public Policy Foundation (TPPF) is an American conservative think tank based in Austin, Texas.[2]

Factchecking the Texas Public Policy Foundation – Deceleration

Greg Harman In recent months, an Austin-based think tank, the Texas Public Policy Foundation, has been holding regular (lightly attended) meetings to

deceleration.news

"TPPF is a pay-to-play service that churns out papers that sound and look intellectually sound."

The whole doc reads like a hit piece. Yikes no thanks. The car and driver article does a much better job using a apples-to-apples comparison.

The affluent are the 911 crowd. I agree, they won't care much. This is not the 911 crowd. This is the utilitarian appliance buyer crowd. These are utility vehicles meant for DD, for hauling cargo and people. They are far different crowds, although some people definitely own both the sports car and SUV. Since this is the SUV crowd, then most definitely they care about value We got threads worried about MPG!

Many of the new car buyers moved up from Acuras and Lexus, and constantly compare the vehicles. Baruth’s article in TTAC explained this well

Avoidable Contact: Cayenne Won't Help Ya, Cayenne Won't Do You No Good.

“When,” I asked her, “did you realize that you, were, well, you know, an actual prostitute?”“Well,” she said, rubbing her cigarette out in the waffle-patterned wrought-iron table, shielding her eyes against the sun as it set in the distance, “I’d been dancing for a while, and there was kind of a...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

Didn't you say EV makes sense for utility vehicles meant for DD, for hauling cargo and people? Anyway if you make the value argument it depends on which side of the coin you believe (established auto journalist vs. conservative think-tank). Car and driver does a direct comparison based on EV/ICE alternatives. Ultimately if what you say is true, then we should be able to compare value directly between ICE and EV Macan in the future and people will vote with their wallets. I don't think the average buyer is very rational and will do a side-by-side cost comparison though.

 

[Footie]

@ericsan13 I believe my comparison between the M5 and my i4 is very accurate because my mileage each year is very consistent. Admittedly UK fuel prices are more than the US and we probably are paying less for our electricity but I still say there is savings to be have switching to an EV but it’s only part of the appeal IMO it’s the way they drive.

 

[grim]

I don’t doubt the Macan EV will get its fair share of bad press because quite if it does impress them most don’t want the change and will excuses not to like it.

Whats Jeremy Clarkson think? He doesnt like Porsches.

 

[Footie]

Whats Jeremy Clarkson think? He dont like Porsches.

JC is great to watch but I don’t necessarily agree with much of his opinions when it comes to cars.

 

[grim]

JC is great to watch but I don’t necessarily agree with much of his opinions when it comes to cars.

But he's probably the most famous UK auto journalist, no? Top Gear was very good and he definitely hated Porsches. And, not to go to far OT, Grand Tour has one more episode to go, and Clarksons Farm gets very good viewership.

NM, I just figured he has expressed displeasure with Porsches in the past.

 

[oqjnLu@>@W]

I genuinely feel for you guys over in the States, for some reason that I am sure someone can explain the powers at be chose 110v for your power supply when most of the rest of the world went for 220v and there was the one picked for charging EVs. So I do see the point you make when you complain about the cost involve to adapt to a decent supply to take an EV.

All the above will be a serious stumbling point for EVs to catch on in the US in particular but I will say that most motoring journalists are very negative towards EV to the point that some of their comments are laughable. One example was a UK journalist on YouTube called Harry’s Garage who reviewed the new i5M60, lots of complains some I happened to agree with but he kept going on about its excessive weight yet recommended going for the hybrid version instead, the i5M60 is 2400Kgs so properly heavy but the 550e he suggested weighs 2230kg so hardly much of a difference. LOL

I don’t doubt the Macan EV will get its fair share of bad press because quite if it does impress them most don’t want the change and will excuses not to like it.

The only reviews where you get more balanced opinions is the Scandinavian journalists because they don’t have issues with supply or charging infrastructure which suggests to me that when we all finally catch up to them we all will be a bit more interested in the technology.

We actually have 240V to our homes. The main panels send 120V down each of two bus bars in the main panels. Each
circuit in the house utilizes 1 hot wire (120V) and 1 neutral.

 

[ericsan13]

@ericsan13 I believe my comparison between the M5 and my i4 is very accurate because my mileage each year is very consistent. Admittedly UK fuel prices are more than the US and we probably are paying less for our electricity but I still say there is savings to be have switching to an EV but it’s only part of the appeal IMO it’s the way they drive.

How much is electricity for you? Mine is 13.5c/kWh.

Most people with a modern house should be able to get a L2 charger and installation for about $1000. I think you mentioned you get 7kWh/hr from your charger? I am getting 11.5 kWh charging. So slight advantage if you opt for a L2 charger and must have the fastest charging speeds.

We actually have 240V to our homes. The main panels send 120V down each of two bus bars in the main panels. Each
circuit in the house utilizes 1 hot wire (120V) and 1 neutral.

Yes but I believe it still requires wiring a plug or a L2 charger, vs. Europe where you can apparently just plug in the charger that comes with your car.

 

[Footie]

We actually have 240V to our homes. The main panels send 120V down each of two bus bars in the main panels. Each
circuit in the house utilizes 1 hot wire (120V) and 1 neutral.

So is this normal or is Grim tell me porkies about the 110v supply?

Also this should surely mean adding a home change would be relatively cheap and similar to what I paid.

 

[95B3.6]

How much is electricity for you? Mine is 13.5c/kWh.

PG&E charges .42 to .62 here in SF depending on rate plan, time of day, total usage. Hawaii got nothing on us.

 

[ericsan13]

So is this normal or is Grim tell me porkies about the 110v supply?

Also this should surely mean adding a home change would be relatively cheap and similar to what I paid.

Yup we have two 120V bus bars and assuming your service panel can handle the extra load, you call up a electrician to install your L2 charger and you're pretty much golden. What was your process? Can't you just use the charger they give you with the car or is that limited?

Also looks like we finally get some details on Thursday:

Porsche is finally unveiling the Macan EV this week, its latest sketches show an early look

The all-electric Porsche Macan will finally show its face later this week. Ahead of its official debut, Porsche is teasing...

electrek.co

Really curious how Porsche will differentiate.

 

[M GTS]

hehe re JC, I can understand from a amercians pov not really liked am I wrong ?
I'd say JC's pov against Porsche is coming from the deep rooted dislike of Germans due to the past and P has been his target unlike BM/MB.
Anyway no matter you either like or not, from the aussie anglo perspective we like him (English humour to us is brilliant) but we sure wouldn't take his brief on car brands as gospel, just his own opinion......
TG UK was one of the best motoring shows produced.

There is no doubt EV is cheaper to run in the long term, service to service that are long intervals compared to ICE as well as charging but for how long ?
Govs will have to recover the fuel tax revenue lost no doubt about it........
The more sold as it will in the future the cheaper to buy AND might I add what of new replacement batteries - for what happens 2nd 3rd 4th owners looking ahead to buy.

This new EV Macan here in Oz will cost a bomb imo, near on A$200K (USD131,775.00) prob more depending extras that my prediction.

As for power outage world over should be 240V 3 pin plug - have a draw full of travel adapters what a PIA !

 

[Footie]

How much is electricity for you? Mine is 13.5c/kWh.

Most people with a modern house should be able to get a L2 charger and installation for about $1000. I think you mentioned you get 7kWh/hr from your charger? I am getting 11.5 kWh charging. So slight advantage if you opt for a L2 charger and must have the fastest charging speeds.



Yes but I believe it still requires wiring a plug or a L2 charger, vs. Europe where you can apparently just plug in the charger that comes with your car.

I decided against the 11KW/h charger because for the miles I regularly do I didn’t need any more than that. At work we are adding a commercial one with an outside firm that is capable of charging at 100KW/h where we split the revenue but we have our own card which gives us the supply at what a KW unit costs us so win win all round.

 

[grim]

Can anyone imagine going to a gas station with, for example, half a tank of gas, and the gas station charges you more money than the next guy with 1/4 tank of gas? 🤯

Definitely ev adoption at 1% is infancy, cant wait to see 5%

Tesla combats Uber, Lyft congestion in New York City with Supercharger Congestion Fees

Tesla is combatting Uber and Lyft congestion at its Superchargers in New York City with Supercharger fees after the ride-sharing services have backed up EV chargers. This week, it appears the Superchargers are more congested than normal, and it could be due to the influx of Uber and Lyft...

www.teslarati.com

 

[ericsan13]

Can anyone imagine going to a gas station with, for example, half a tank of gas, and the gas station charges you more money than the next guy with 1/4 tank of gas? 🤯

Definitely ev adoption at 1% is infancy, cant wait to see 5%

Tesla combats Uber, Lyft congestion in New York City with Supercharger Congestion Fees

Tesla is combatting Uber and Lyft congestion at its Superchargers in New York City with Supercharger fees after the ride-sharing services have backed up EV chargers. This week, it appears the Superchargers are more congested than normal, and it could be due to the influx of Uber and Lyft...

www.teslarati.com

Lines to get gas is old news:

Massive Lines Form At Gas Stations After Pipeline Hack (Photos)

Panic buying across the East Coast is making the fuel shortage worse.

www.forbes.com

But yes, infrastructure is going to take a long, long time and those who have the privilege to charge at home will have the most to gain.

Also surge pricing is nothing new and incentivizes the right behavior. Hello Uber!

 

[grim]

Lines to get gas is old news:

You dont have to explain to me gas lines having lived through odd/even days. Been there, done that But now that the US exports oil, the 70s are long gone, 4 decades ago. This is much different.

1. In the 70s they didnt run out of gas stations. Here there are not enough electron stations supporting the premise that 1% penetration is ev infancy, premature, etc. Big difference
2. In no case did they charge more money because you had too much gas in your tanks, thats crazy 🙄

immature tech, thats the point, and I know early adopters put up with bs

 

[danamaria]

Macan hybrid please. Best of both worlds if done correctly.