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Macan EV, EVs, Porsche Future with EVs, rants and random thoughts

118K views 1.3K replies 110 participants last post by  tmrqs  
#1 ·
I have another question about adaptation . How do you think buyers will adapt to a $2500 battery replacement . Porsche does not warranty this on ICE cars with RAS but an EV is different . Or is it ? The battery runs low , the car needs to charge , but what if it dies ? Not everyone daily drives a car . Its expensive enough of a component that approx half off ICE owners decided to leave out RAS because they ate the expense one a former car . EV buyers don't get that choice .

Example - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-12v-battery-issue.11051/
 
#1,094 ·
Depreciation is of course a concern, but the Taycan was an expensive first gen product with a niche market. Macan is Porsche's best selling vehicle, and coupled with the more modest price point means a larger pool of buyers (both new and used).

The ICE Macan is done in the EU (and nearly done here) so I think the fact that Porsche feels confident enough in their tech to switch their top-seller to EV says a lot about how good this car is going to be.
It will be interesting to see how many purchase raffle tickets for the latest PCA drawing. The 1st Grand Prize is a 2024 718 Boxster or Cayman GTS with the 2nd Grand Prize being a 2024 Macan E. Typically there are multiple 2nd Grand Prizes based upon the number of tickets sold. In my case I'll skip purchasing drawing tickets as I have no interest in having an electric vehicle.
 
#1,095 ·
Autoblog

“2024 Porsche Macan Electric First Drive Review: The revolution begins”

An interesting read. One sentence in particular made be chuckle.

“It’s a great SUV, but it wouldn’t be any worse with a V6 instead of a frunk.”


 
#1,096 ·
Autoblog

“2024 Porsche Macan Electric First Drive Review: The revolution begins”

An interesting read. One sentence in particular made be chuckle.

“It’s a great SUV, but it wouldn’t be any worse with a V6 instead of a frunk.”


and..."but when driven spiritedly (which it really should be from time to time; it’s a Porsche, after all) it’s not quite as exciting as the original model."
Don't know if this was meant to adress the Macan 4 only, but for me (even driving a Macan T today), only the Macan turbo, incl. rear wheel steering, would cause me some enthusiasm, but not sure if it be worth it.
 
#1,097 ·
I’ve just recently noticed an uptick of reviews for the EV models. Reviews are good.

I would hav a difficult time about aural sensations playing into a decision to stay ICE or go EV for me. I’m not sure I could tolerate not “hearing” my vehicle which imo is extremely important in “feeling “ my vehicle.
 
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#1,101 ·
Ford lost $132,000 on each electric vehicle sold during the first three months of 2024

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is opening an investigation into Ford Motor’s hands-free driving technology BlueCruise after two fatal crashes involving Mustang Mach-E SUVs striking parked vehicles, the agency said on Monday. The agency’s preliminary evaluation into 130,000 2021-2024 Ford Mustang Mach-E vehicles is the first step to determine whether the vehicles pose an unreasonable risk to safety.
 
#1,105 ·
Porsche Taycans recalled due to short circuits in the high-voltage batteries. Porsche Taycan battery fire recall letters are expected to be mailed May 17, 2024.

Other EV (Tesla) owners also reported debris striking to the chassis, it can cause potential damage to battery cooling system.
 
#1,106 ·
Porsche Taycans recalled due to short circuits in the high-voltage batteries. Porsche Taycan battery fire recall letters are expected to be mailed May 17, 2024.

Other EV (Tesla) owners also reported debris striking to the chassis, it can cause potential damage to battery cooling system.
We had two Fiskers catch fire here in Houston a few years ago. Luckily they were both parked out in the driveway. Home wasn’t hurt. But quite a mess. If, IF I were to buy an EV, I would not take the chance of a fire while in my garage. Which in my mind defeats the purpose of having a garage…
 
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#1,107 · (Edited)
A little off topic for me as I am split on EV's. What I don't like, being a USA citizen, is how EV's are being shoved down our throat by world powers. I truly despise mandating into this technology. On the other hand, if we did not have folks working on improving things, we would still be driving cars with carburetors, no antilock brakes or airbags. You remember when a typical sedan only got 12 or maybe 20 mpg and had 200 hp? Who would buy that as a mainstream product today? The technology in electric cars is evolving and the lessons learned by exploring will eventually lead to newer and better products for our future generations. Just as LED bulbs have become mainstream and no one disputes the lower energy consumption and higher longevity compared to incadescent and flourescent, it took some time. The original price point of the LED bulbs and the lighting color made early production unpalatable to the masses. We are seeing a similar path with inverter appliances, the price of inverter technology is coming down and the products are improving and are substantially more efficent than non-inverter ones and they definitely perform better. The lessons being learned with electric cars will eventually lead to superior technology for transportation. I only wish the world powers would back off of the market mandates and if they want to incentivize with global monies, do it on the development side rather than the consumer side. Can you envision parking pad areas, at your home or elsewhere in such that the energy stored in the surface is capable of automatically transferring to vehicles without cables? Can you envision a road where EMF surfaces power your car as your drive? Levitation super highways that automatically control speed, vehicle spacing and lane departure?
 
owns 2023 Porsche Macan GTS
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#1,108 ·
What I don't like, being a USA citizen, is how EV's are being shoved down our throat by world powers. I truly despise mandating into this technology.
Fire them. In the USA they are not dictators. Of if one likes it, hire them. It's the consumer's choice.

Just as LED bulbs have become mainstream and no one disputes the lower energy consumption and higher longevity compared to incadescent and flourescent, it took some time. The original price point of the LED bulbs and the lighting color made early production unpalatable to the masses.
LEDs are the case study on how NOT to mandate something, done via regulations, and quickly reversed via regulation, and then re-reversed via regulation, not via law but by strokes of a pen. When the admin changes, and they always change, its just a matter of when, I would suspect another re-re-reversal of the regulation. It should have been via consumers choosing.

First, it was CFLs, a total disaster, containing mercury. Don't break them, hazardous, you can't vacuum them, leave the room, and take them to hazardous waste disposal, not the trash. A total disaster. Then LEDs were far to expensive, and then "not suitable for enclosed spaces". You know how many light fixtures are closed? I still have closed fixtures. And they do burn out.

Now this leads back to One saving grace is LED lights, which diminish the lighting load but thats a pittance compared to dishwasher sucking up 12 AMPs. How many lights can you have on at one time?

The very first line of the load calculation is "lighting" and from what I've read, that is obsolete in that its for incandescents. This might be why it still exists:


Thats a LONG way to go before LEDs are accepted. Its accepted by the well off, not by the poor.

We are seeing a similar path with inverter appliances, the price of inverter technology is coming down and the products are improving and are substantially more efficent than non-inverter ones and they definitely perform better. The lessons being learned with electric cars will eventually lead to superior technology for transportation.
No argument there, its like Why to go to Moon? Better tech. But I'm still waiting for the flying car. Elon Musk did a interview on that and we will never have flying cars. You can't trust people to drive in two dimensions, imagine them driving in three dimensions. :eek:
 
#1,109 ·
Australia is going through a massive transition blimp like alot of countries today.
The green agendas have added to cost of living And the EV push more so now due to Chinese brand influx is tipping the scales even more now for Tesla owners.
Depreciation and the pre owned market is going backwards fast.
Recent price drops you'd be livid having paid full retail only months back having seen price drops by all brands.
MachE has been a complete FLOP here, silly Ford came to market higher than Telsa - ridiculous.
Price drops again.
Teslas normally have all been pre sold when shipped here, now there is a glut of them sitting at the docks.
Picture proves EV market is in trouble | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

To consider the MacanEV right now is crazy stuff IMO over here.
 
#1,130 ·
It's all good for you as long as you never leave your house . I remember when Tesla guy got in my 992 and saw the 531 mile range (extended tank ) . The range envy revealed itself . I got in an. an Uber that was a model Y . I asked the guy if he drives it all ay and he said yes . I asked him what happens if he offer runs out of charge . Does Tesla help ? He got so freaked out on the idea of it . He said " It must never happen ." Gas is cheap and it's everywhere and easy to obtain . EV can never compete with that ,
 
#1,111 ·
What's crazy is to keep putting gas in your tank. I have a solar system that has been providing 90-100% of my monthly power consjumption - in AZ. Charging the Macan isn't going to significantly impact that so I'm good.
Everyone has their opinion flyguy.
As I ended my post, with "over here" world of Oz unlike you over younder in AZ. (luv your golf course's)
Our worlds are so far apart - good luck to you, everything re solar/battery you name it is a mess from this end and still yet to prove its reliability worth infrastructure.
We pay alot more compared to your US$ - I'm happy to spend only when I know everything is reliable/is quality and providing back up service that is very lacking here imo.
By the way I have been crazy putting gas in the tank for nearly 5decades whats another year or 5 matter, its like breathing.
 
#1,112 · (Edited)
Already a new generation of EV cars in the works, bidirectional charging? A car that can take power in, say when electric rates are lower, stores it and then sells the power when rates are higher? BMW, Ford, GM, VW and others are looking at this or have it in the works (Ford already does to an extent). Betamax and VHS all over again? Early adopters may be in for a “shock”.

 
#1,114 ·
Already a new generation of EV cars in the works, bidirectional charging? A car that can take power in, say when electric rates are lower, stores it and then sells the power when rates are higher? BMW, Ford, GM, VW and others are looking at this or have it in the works (Ford already does to an extent). Betamax and VHS all over again? Early adopters may be in for a “shock”.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there are cars that can already do that. The Ford Lightning is one of them.
 
#1,129 ·
#1,149 ·
Ford has cut Lightning Production . I have a friend who loves his and will outright admit that his household must have ICE cars too . The vehicle is not popular and the F150 is still the truck they want .


 
#1,115 ·
People are forgetting that we're in the first generation of electric vehicles. As technology advances and progresses and we get lighter, more dense batteries, we'll start seeing the weight of electric vehicles come down. This is something that is going to take time. If you want to keep enjoying your 911's as global emission regulations are becoming stricter and stricter, then something has to give. I was an EV skeptic but I put my money where my mouth is and tried it instead of being a keyboard warrior.

This constant back and forth between the ICE vs. EV crowd is old and redundant. Let people enjoy their EV's while you enjoy your car that burns boomer juice.

The ICE didn't become 35% to 40% efficient overnight. It took decades for it to get where it is today.

P.S. EV's come with 90-95% efficiency out of the box.
 
#1,118 ·
What's crazy is to keep putting gas in your tank. I have a solar system that has been providing 90-100% of my monthly power consjumption - in AZ. Charging the Macan isn't going to significantly impact that so I'm good.
Imagine having to worry about oil changes, servicing at 10,000 intervals or not being able to leave your house on a full 'tank'.

Couldn't be me.
 
#1,119 ·
And what do they say about placing batteries in stored airplane luggage? And how's it going for EV fires at sea on shipping carriers? Look, we can pick and choose our sound bites all day long. The only way I'd buy an EV is if I could put in a 220 line. THAT costs money. Place that on top of the cost of the EV and now price that out over the life of average EV ownership (got any data there?). For me personally, it's not worth it yet.

On this note, there was an article showing recently of the new "craze". Two guys in a truck, one bolt cutter. One cuts the EV cables at recharging stations. The other picks them up and tosses them in the back of the truck. They're stripped for the copper. Seen the price of copper recently? All in? Two and a half minutes...

Two years ago a couple of guys from Road & Track (Car & Driver?) decided to drive a Tesla around the outer perimeter of the U.S. Why? I have no clue. They were good until they got up along the northern border states. They wound up driving across the border to be able to recharge their EV. Most of the ones inside the U.S. border while showing operational via Tesla mapping were not. We're not invested in this area as robustly as we could/should/might want to be. The time to recharge an EV MUST be shortened. I don't like hanging out at gas stations more than I have to. Why do I want to sit at the edges of a poorly lit store lot and wait 20+ minutes for a charge? You're asking for trouble of so many kinds and types. Nah. I'll take my chances with my ICE vehicles for a while longer.
 
#1,124 ·
#1,127 ·
More on PAG investors thinking about the pace of EV expansion

 
#1,135 ·

TLDR

  • Taycan production cut to one shift
  • Temp employees let go
  • Chinese dont want them “luxury German models that Chinese buyers want are those with combustion engines, not electric powertrains.”
Source

 
#1,137 ·
Taycan production cut to one shift:

Market niche filled, but big hope for Macan EV sales. My sales rep recently felt comfortable with incoming Macan orders but that could be local area specific here, he thinks.
...plus no BIG further technical breakthrough expected in terms of battery technology, according to recent VDE/Munich Technical University presentation on new developments of "Traction Batteries" I attended. Stony road to usable solid state batteries at all, their presenting professor explained...

Chinese dont want them “luxury German models that Chinese buyers want are those with combustion engines, not electric powertrains.”

EU activated import duties on chinese mass market EVs provisionally now, wonder how German resellers and customers will digest this. Until now, only acruals by importers have to be proven to the authorities but not paid now as I understood, but I remember, even when signing my Macan ICE order in late '22, I had to accept eventual advances in price during the months long waiting period already...this will definitely put question marks on signing an EV order for private persons here.

This, as a consequence, will cause probably counteraction in far east, and for me it is clear which models/automotive technology will be affected primarily...
 
#1,139 · (Edited)
I won't be buying another car without a plug, and I'm actually happy that Porsche will no longer make ICE-only Macans after 2026 because it means that Porsche will put more effort and resources into their EVs and be less splintered. (I do wish that they'd come out with a Macan E-Hybrid to match the Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids that seem to be on the production plans til at least 2030.) I've been debating getting our fourth PHEV (either a used 2021-2023 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2025 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2024/2025 Mercedes GLE 450e) vs. getting our first BEV (either a 2021-2023 Taycan CT4 or a special-order 2025 Macan 4). As such, I've spent a lot of time comparing features and stats and debating them in my mind with the aid of pros-and-cons spreadsheets.

The Macan 4 looks impressive to me, and I like (1) the upgraded 800-volt system (with built-in capability to handle "lesser" DC-fast-charging stations) and the ability to charge faster; (2) the larger battery pack and going well over 300 miles of range on a full charge at 70 mph; (3) the reverting to physical toggle switches for climate controls (as have the new Cayennes and Panameras, going away from the haptic-touch controls of the last few years); (4) ACC and heated steering wheel and ambient lighting and apparently PDLS are now standard; (5) keeping the new drive-mode shifter on the dashboard to the right of the steering wheel and making much more space in the center console (all Porsches appear to be going in this direction for MY 2025).

Things that I don't like in the Macan 4 that differ from getting a new Cayenne E-Hybrid: (1) glass roof is standard (I hate them); (2) no option for an infrared camera; (3) probably no dual sun visors on each side in the front; (4) air suspension standard (something that can and will break eventually, and be very costly outside of warranty); (5) frameless doors (glass exposed when doors are open); (6) poorer color selection; (7) less practical for long road trips (due to current poor public-charging infrastructure).

Where the Macan 4 excels for me over the Cayenne E-Hybrid is that I would spec it much cheaper (by about $20k), not having to worry about catalytic converter theft, not having to go as often (and pay as much) for routine maintenance (Porsche suggests once every 2 years for its BEVs), long-term cost to fuel it would probably be much less, and not going to gas stations at all. The Macan 4 would probably be more fun to drive and dynamically superior in stability at high speeds and in curves than the Cayenne E-Hybrid. And I personally have gotten beyond liking the sounds of any ICE and its exhaust system and the awkward showing of any tail pipes (from behind) on any PHEV.

The big fail for me on the Macan 4 is in its exterior appearance; it looks horrible. I wish that Porsche had tried harder to keep the ICE Macan look on the exterior. The rear of the Macan 4 is especially bad-looking, and I'm confused as to why they made a rear wiper optional (not like having a rear wiper would hurt the horrendous bad rear-end looks!). The separated headlights on the front end (well below and separated from the running lights) on the Macan 4 are also not a good look to me.

I don't like the start/stop button and still prefer to have a slot to insert a key fob and turn it; I don't like keeping a key fob in my pocket while driving and want a place to keep it while driving (and having to insert it and remove it when getting in and leaving). But all Porsches have gone in this direction. Having the recent-years design with a fake-key-insert that you turn to start the ICE was the worst of all, as potential thieves might think you left the key in your car.

Taycan CT4 vs. Macan 4: the new MY2025 Taycans are just too expensive, with corresponding rapid drops in depreciation that are insane. I've looked extensively at used, CPO-warranty 2021-2023 CT4 cars lately, but other owners and dealerships just don't spec them the way that I would, and the battery packs are noticeably smaller than the MY2025 Taycans (with MUCH less range on a full charge). I prefer the exterior Taycan looks to the Macan 4 by a long shot, but the haptic climate controls are a problem. The MY2025 Taycans will have a standard powered charge-port door, which I think is a huge mistake (as many Taycan owners have had problems when their powered charge-port door wouldn't open when they needed to open it), and the Macan 4 comes with manual charge-port door standard. The front doors in the Taycan are also not easy to get into if you have any health issues with hips or knees or backs, either; I am guessing that the Macan 4 doors will be better in that regard.

The worry with buying any BEV now is the rapidly improving tech -- both the warts and recalls with the early-adopter cars and the fact that all these current BEVs will plummet in value as soon as solid-state batteries come on the market in cars (which is likely to happen sometime in the next 3-6 years from what I read); it'll be like a flip cellphone without internet access going to the iPhone -- but in terms of charging speed, range, and safety. For that reason, once I go "full BEV", I'm committing myself to keeping that first BEV for a number of years and not worrying about depreciation.
 
#1,140 ·
I won't be buying another car without a plug, and I'm actually happy that Porsche will no longer make ICE-only Macans after 2026 because it means that Porsche will put more effort and resources into their EVs and be less splintered. (I do wish that they'd come out with a Macan E-Hybrid to match the Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids that seem to be on the production plans til at least 2030.) I've been debating getting our fourth PHEV (either a used 2021-2023 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2025 Cayenne E-Hybrid or a special-order 2024/2025 Mercedes GLE 450e) vs. getting our first BEV (either a 2021-2023 Taycan CT4 or a special-order 2025 Macan 4). As such, I've spent a lot of time comparing features and stats and debating them in my mind with the aid of pros-and-cons spreadsheets.

The Macan 4 looks impressive to me, and I like (1) the upgraded 800-volt system (with built-in capability to handle "lesser" DC-fast-charging stations) and the ability to charge faster; (2) the larger battery pack and going well over 300 miles of range on a full charge at 70 mph; (3) the reverting to physical toggle switches for climate controls (as have the new Cayennes and Panameras, going away from the haptic-touch controls of the last few years); (4) ACC and heated steering wheel and ambient lighting and apparently PDLS are now standard; (5) keeping the new drive-mode shifter on the dashboard to the right of the steering wheel and making much more space in the center console (all Porsches appear to be going in this direction for MY 2025).

Things that I don't like in the Macan 4 that differ from getting a new Cayenne E-Hybrid: (1) glass roof is standard (I hate them); (2) no option for an infrared camera; (3) probably no dual sun visors on each side in the front; (4) air suspension standard (something that can and will break eventually, and be very costly outside of warranty); (5) frameless doors (windows exposed when doors are open); (6) poorer color selection; (7) less practical for long road trips (due to current poor public-charging infrastructure).

Where the Macan 4 excels for me over the Cayenne E-Hybrid is that I would spec it much cheaper (by about $20k), not having to worry about catalytic converter theft, not having to go as often (and pay as much) for routine maintenance (Porsche suggests once every 2 years for its BEVs), long-term cost to fuel it would probably be much less, and not going to gas stations at all. The Macan 4 would probably be more fun to drive and dynamically superior in stability at high speeds and in curves than the Cayenne E-Hybrid. And I personally have gotten beyond liking the sounds of any ICE and its exhaust system and the awkward showing of any tail pipes (from behind) on any PHEV.

The big fail for me on the Macan 4 is in its exterior appearance; it looks horrible. I wish that Porsche had tried harder to keep the ICE Macan look on the exterior. The rear of the Macan 4 is especially bad-looking, and I'm confused as to why they made a rear wiper optional (not like having a rear wiper would hurt the horrendous bad rear-end looks!). The separated headlights on the front end (well below and separated from the running lights) on the Macan 4 are also not a good look to me.

I don't like the start/stop button and still prefer to have a slot to insert a key fob and turn it; I don't like keeping a key fob in my pocket while driving and want a place to keep it while driving (and having to insert it and remove it when getting in and leaving). But all Porsches have gone in this direction. Having the recent-years design with a fake-key-insert that you turn to start the ICE was the worst of all, as potential thieves might think you left the key in your car.

Taycan CT4 vs. Macan 4: the new MY2025 Taycans are just too expensive, with corresponding rapid drops in depreciation that are insane. I've looked extensively at used, CPO-warranty 2021-2023 CT4 cars lately, but other owners and dealerships just don't spec them the way that I would, and the battery packs are noticeably smaller than the MY2025 Taycans (with MUCH less range on a full charge). I prefer the exterior Taycan looks to the Macan 4 by a long shot, but the haptic climate controls are a problem. The MY2025 Taycans will have a standard powered charge-port door, which I think is a huge mistake (as many Taycan owners have had problems when their powered charge-port door wouldn't open when they needed to open it), and the Macan 4 comes with manual charge-port door standard. The front doors in the Taycan are also not easy to get into if you have any health issues with hips or knees or backs, either; I am guessing that the Macan 4 doors will be better in that regard.

The worry with buying any BEV now is the rapidly improving tech -- both the warts and recalls with the early-adopter cars and the fact that all these current BEVs will plummet in value as soon as solid-state batteries come on the market in cars (which is likely to happen sometime in the next 3-6 years from what I read); it'll be like a flip cellphone without internet access going to the iPhone -- but in terms of charging speed, range, and safety. For that reason, once I go "full BEV", I'm committing myself to keeping that first BEV for a number of years and not worrying about depreciation.
I too would like to see a Macan hybrid. The charging infrastructure is not adequate here yet, and there are long distances between places we travel, so all electric is not an option.
 
#1,141 ·
I just think people are over being the EV "jerks" that want to drag race off every traffic light. I can say without fail that if a Model 3 dual motor is next to me at a traffic light, 75% of the time they will "haul ass" off the line. Has anyone thought of the insanity of giving Teslas to Joe and Jane Public with 450+HP at the twitch of a foot? There is a lot of push back in Europe now against pointless 0-60 times of EV's. The novelty has worn off and people just don't see any positives in spending $10-$20K more for an EV that does the job of an ICE vehicle but with a lot less convenience given the parlous state of US charging infrastructure. We will see if Audi and Porsche can convince people to buy the Q6 or e-Macan. I'll bet there are some very nervous execs at VAG.
 
#1,142 ·
Your point is a good one. Auto insurance premiums on EV are higher than ice cars due the higher price of EV both to buy and repair compared to ice and higher accident rates with EV, probably for the reason you mention. Auto makers selling EV push the acceleration times to try to appeal to the traditional auto enthusiasts. The excitement of quicker acceleration is, I imagine, offset by reduced range resulting from rapid acceleration. In my view a smart move for an auto maker, at least in the U.S., would be to offer a choice of power options, ice, hybrid and EV, until this is sorted out, which could take decades.