[Footie]

They are going to hunt you down. So as not to bury the lede do some research on non-intrusive EV load disaggregation.

Lets make sure we are all speaking the same language here. What is the ultimate goal of electrification of the automotive sectors? Its not the current 1%, nor ten times as much at 10%. Its the complete elimination of fossil fuels carbon generation. Its 100 times as much AND the elimination of the source, such as natural gas, coal, and oil for electric generation. IOW at the SOURCE, and at the USER level. Like it or nor, this industry is still in its infancy, I said early adoption, more likely innovations is correct. Its immature, a child. What do you need to achieve these goals? They don't talk much about it, do they.

As one of the references above mentioned, your kidding yourself if you think electric rates are going to stay the same as today as electric companies KNOW what the market will bear, and that market price is whatever the cost of gasoline. Forget about the EU and their "laws", read the actual California EO on "banning" ICE by 2035

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-Climate.pdf

It bans nothing. A "goal" is 100% no ICE sales by 2035. Thats it. Now how do you take this "first" step to get to the ultimate goal? Some research into this "evolution" I read shows its the GREATEST change since central A/C hit the mainstream. Central Air is NOTHING compared to 50 AMP car chargers. AC pulls less power and really isn't need or used in the snow belt, nowhere near as much as the south. But 100% car charging would be done in every state, ALL THE TIME. Yes, I know you can charge on a 15 amp 120V but realistic, the GREAT Masses will not tolerate it. Maybe you do but not the rest of society that lives with instant gratification. People throw fits when their Amazon package is a day late.

I mentioned my utility bills, to the HOUR, usage. From that it shows patterns. They estimate and profile. It says estimates. This goes back to the days pre-smartmeters. Meter reader had to access the meter. Some meters were in basements. So they "estimated" based on previous usage. Today, they know the patterns of MILLIONS of users. They know exactly what is going on. Big Data is very important and AI is taking over. ... continued.

Am I glad I live in the UK and not the US, you guys seem to be living in the stone age when it comes to electricity supply or at least some of you are.

Regarding this ban by 2035, we here in Europe have the same timescale but I believe it’s their intention to stop sales of ICE cars by this date, whether this actually happens is up for debate and personally I can’t see it, there’s not enough electricity supply to accommodate the number of EVs they are expecting at this point and based on the picture @grim is painting of the US you guys are well behind even us and I think we are behind some of other European cousins.

If they do up the price of electricity then I will get solar panels and a battery storage system for charging my car/s. But I still question you opinion that rates will rise to the same levels as gasoline/petrol or if they can determine what the usage is. I still believe that home charging will always be much cheaper than charging at one of these charging stations because these firms need to make a profit and if our electricity price increase well then so will theirs.

 

[ericsan13]

I fall into the latter category doing on average only 8K miles per year and yet after I calculated the saving on fuel price compare to my M5 and even with the one extra full set of tyres I need on the i4M50 over a 3 year period than I need with the M5 I still save approximately £5K driving the i4.

If you are driving 20K miles per year that is still only an average of 55 miles per day so you could easily charge daily at night on average about 3-4 hours per night. Of course this requires actually remembering to put it on the charge but it’s a habit every EV owner already does.

55 miles per day is about 9 hours of charging for a Model Y on a 120V charger. Or you can waste time at the gas station every 5 days.

 

[Footie]

These is a change of the totally negative direction this thread has taken but after watching the AutomannNL video of the Lotus Eletre and its acceleration time between 100-200km/h was just as quick as they achieved with the Cayenne Turbo GT, this Lotus has the same horsepower figure as the top spec Macan EV but the Macan has reportedly an extra 300Nm of torque…. so my question is will the Macan EV be even quicker than the might Cayenne Turbo GT. 😱

 

[Footie]

55 miles per day is about 9 hours of charging for a Model Y on a 120V charger. Or you can waste time at the gas station every 5 days.

What????

Does your home chargers not charge at a rate of 7KW/h?

 

[ericsan13]

What????

Does your home chargers not charge at a rate of 7KW/h?

Our 120V chargers (typical household plug) charge at roughly 120V * 13A = or 1.5kWh. That's 6mi/hr for a Model Y.

My L2 charger is 240V * 48A = 11.5kWh, or 37mi/hr for a Model Y.

 

[ericsan13]

Am I glad I live in the UK and not the US, you guys seem to be living in the stone age when it comes to electricity supply or at least some of you are.

Yeah policies differ state-by-state. Washington (3rd in EV adoption) has cheap power, but no peak rates or net metering. So no one is incentivized to get solar or charge during off-peak hours.

"The top 5 countries with the highest share of EV sales are Norway (all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales in 2022), Iceland (41%), Sweden (32%), the Netherlands (24%) and China (22%), according to our analysis."

These Countries Are Adopting Electric Vehicles the Fastest

Norway and China are among the top countries scaling electric vehicles at rates needed to meet international climate goals.

www.wri.org

So yeah, the US is already falling behind. This is a nation that loves big trucks (pavement princesses) and gas guzzling.

 

[Footie]

Our 120V chargers (typical household plug) charge at roughly 120V * 13A = or 1.5kWh. That's 6mi/hr for a Model Y.

My L2 charger is 240V * 48A = 11.5kWh, or 37mi/hr for a Model Y.

I see, my home charger is 240v * 32A so only charges at 7KW/h. Didn’t see the point of going for a 11KW/h one but maybe come to time the wife goes for a EV then I might reevaluate that decision.

 

[Footie]

Yeah policies differ state-by-state. Washington (3rd in EV adoption) has cheap power, but no peak rates or net metering. So no one is incentivized to get solar or charge during off-peak hours.

"The top 5 countries with the highest share of EV sales are Norway (all-electric vehicles made up 80% of passenger vehicle sales in 2022), Iceland (41%), Sweden (32%), the Netherlands (24%) and China (22%), according to our analysis."

These Countries Are Adopting Electric Vehicles the Fastest

Norway and China are among the top countries scaling electric vehicles at rates needed to meet international climate goals.

www.wri.org

So yeah, the US is already falling behind. This is a nation that loves big trucks (pavement princesses) and gas guzzling.

I knew Norway were well ahead of the rest of Europe with regards to sales but didn’t realise they were out selling their ICE equivalents but 4 to 1, that is amazing. Obviously if a government is fully committed to the change to EVs then getting the infrastructure in place is very doable.

 

[grim]

Why not? If you can hide speeding with radar detector blockers, internet piracy with VPN, internet transactions via crypto black market, it's just a matter of time before they come up with ways to hide EV charging. Technology will find a way.

So you are saying criminals commit crimes? Its hard to argue against that. BTW, radar "blockers", jamming, is a federal felony. Of course so is internet piracy. There are legit reasons for VPNs, like some people have stalkers. But the VPN is going to turn over their info when given a warrant. And, of course, tampering with a utility meter is surely a state felony everywhere. Good to know that Criminals commit crimes

I knew Norway were well ahead of the rest of Europe with regards to sales but didn’t realise they were out selling their ICE equivalents but 4 to 1, that is amazing. Obviously if a government is fully committed to the change to EVs then getting the infrastructure in place is very doable.

Norway has reached 25% penetration into registered vehicles. Its in the Early Adopter Stage, Source

Early Adopters of Electric Vehicles: The EV Adoption Curve

Early adopters of electric vehicles are the 2nd adopter group on the EV adoption curve as per Diffusion of Innovations theory for electric car innovations.

www.exro.com

Global EV Data Explorer – Data Tools - IEA

Global EV Data Explorer - Data tools. A data tool by the International Energy Agency.

www.iea.org

It is the only country in the Early Majority stage in the world. Norway also sources 88% of its electric power from Hydro and export oil. Hydro is good, about an unlimited supply and not dependent upon the whims of weather. Hydro is a great advantage for them.

 

[ericsan13]

So you are saying criminals commit crimes? Its hard to argue against that. BTW, radar "blockers", jamming, is a federal felony. Of course so is internet piracy. There are legit reasons for VPNs, like some people have stalkers. But the VPN is going to turn over their info when given a warrant. And, of course, tampering with a utility meter is surely a state felony everywhere. Good to know that Criminals commit crimes

"Laser jammers are widely considered legal but are subject to a few more restrictions than radar detectors, depending on the state."

Are Radar Detectors Legal? Detailed State-by-State Guide (2025)

Are radar detectors legal where you live? This guide covers the radar detector laws for all 50 U.S. states.

www.automoblog.net

Those were just examples. Plus it'll be a while before the law catches up to reality, and that's IF they even decide to charge separate rates for EV charging. But who knows, maybe a separate meter will fuel the growth/modernization of the power grid.

Plus think about this. In the meantime, while they are not charging more for meters, EV owners are saving a ton on fuel (and time at the gas station).

At 8000 miles per year, that's 2078 kWh at 3.85mi/kWh. Or $280 for a Model Y.

At 8000 miles per year, that's 500 gallons of gas for my Macan S. That's $2,000 in my state. A $1,720 savings every year at just 8k miles.

 

[grim]

"Laser jammers are widely considered legal but are subject to a few more restrictions than radar detectors, depending on the state."

Are Radar Detectors Legal? Detailed State-by-State Guide (2025)

Are radar detectors legal where you live? This guide covers the radar detector laws for all 50 U.S. states.

www.automoblog.net

You said RADAR not LASER. RADAR is radio and a felony, I know they are examples.

Those were just examples. Plus it'll be a while before the law catches up to reality, and that's IF they even decide to charge separate rates for EV charging. But who knows, maybe a separate meter will fuel the growth/modernization of the power grid.

They do now. Separate meter. Its real now, different rate on TOU

 

[grim]

This is a nation that loves big trucks (pavement princesses) and gas guzzling.

Bigger gas trucks, today from CNBC. This is why 2035 is a weak goal.

 

[95B3.6]

This is a nation that loves big trucks

To put it mildly.

 

[Footie]

^As I have already said here in the UK two meter readings is a thing but here it’s used to get a cheaper rate for night time electricity be that charging your car or just using your dishwasher or washing machine at these times for cheaper electricity.

If American electricity firms use this to ripe you off then I can’t help you there but at least here it’s used for the opposite and it’s great.

 

[Footie]

To put it mildly.

It’s something I will never understand, these things are crap to drive and drink like a fish. If you are a tradesman and use it for work then I get it but to just buy one as your daily I think is nuts.

What am I missing?

Oh wait I know, I’m not American that’s why I don’t get it. 😂

 

[ericsan13]

You said RADAR not LASER. RADAR is radio and a felony, I know they are examples.

They do now. Separate meter. Its real now, different rate on TOU

Sure, but my point still stands. There are both legal and illegal ways to avoid the theoretical, not-yet-implemented charging penalties against EVs. In the meantime EV owners are benefiting from all sorts of subsidies/benefits including lower rates TOU meters for charging at night, large savings vs gas in general, home charging stations, panel upgrades, etc. I don't see these benefits changing to penalties for a very long time since government is trying to move people over to EVs.

 

[David45]

Instead of limiting the speed of cars how about actually giving licenses to people who can actually drive and not hand out drivers licenses to anybody.

Govt caters to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Footie]

Sure, but my point still stands. There are both legal and illegal ways to avoid the theoretical, not-yet-implemented charging penalties against EVs. In the meantime EV owners are benefiting from all sorts of subsidies/benefits including lower rates TOU meters for charging at night, large savings vs gas in general, home charging stations, panel upgrades, etc. I don't see these benefits changing to penalties for a very long time since government is trying to move people over to EVs.

For a section dedicated to the future Macan EV this place doesn’t appears to be behind this car in the slightest which is kind of sad. You would think people would be excited at the prospect of a new Porsche but the opposite is true. ☹

 

[mcmackr]

You guys have beat this horse to death!!!

 

[Robert M]

You guys have beat this horse to death!!!

And yet people are still coming to see the spectacle. It's their horse to beat.