I expect the techs would need a combination of skills related to computers, electricity and general mechanics.

Out of business

I looked a little into this and there are two issues. First, is the performance related aftermarket. Yeah, that's going to likely die. The counter argument tends to be the same. So what? The buggy and whip evolved to the car and many more jobs. The problem with that argument is one is going from few parts to thousands of parts. This is going from thousands of parts too few. I view it a lame argument. But I suspect they dont care about those jobs.

The second part is the parts aftermarket. You dont need to buy an OEM oil filter, buy a Fram oil filter. The counterargument is that ICE cars will be here for 50 years, so dont worry about it. I find that amusing. its still an admission that the jobs will be lost.

 

So what's the solution? What is your end game? We stop evolving because someone will lose their job? That argument has been made since the dawn of time. Why invent a printing press and put a bunch of monks with pens out of work? Oh, right. It ushered in an era where just about everyone on earth gets to learn to read. It created the publishing industry that created millions of jobs, facilitated he dissemination of the entirety of human knowledge to everyone and created an informed and educated public and electorate to help us go from kingdoms and dictators to democratic countries. Do you think the monks cared about any of that? Presumably some became writers in there own right (not just mechanically copying the bible for their while lives) and maybe write a book or two and others got to read them. Others may have ended up in poverty not finding a new purpose for their skills.

Not every new innovation turns out to be good, but no one can say in advance which ones will be a mistake (ahem... compact fluorescent lights...) and which ones will transform the world? Time will tell if EVs are like LED lights or if they will be the compact fluorescents of the history of transportation, but it is looking more like they will be LEDs. Sorry for those who made bulb filaments, but they had a good run.

 

I know you are using NOBODY as an exaggeration, but let me offer a counter-perspective on this.

OK, I'll bite. Remember I have repeatedly said I got no issue with an about town runabout, which is basically how you use it. My issue is sunk costs to allow that to happen, which I aint going to pay to anymore than if they told me to build a gas station. So ...

Would you worry about range if you left the house with 240-300 miles of range every day? Yes, 'NOTHING is free' and everything has a cost, but that includes time getting gas too.

I get you like charging at home and like I said, I would have no real issue with that. However 15 years I've about plugged in my Porsches everytime they are parked (to avoid the battery dying). And its is a MAJOR PAIN. It's OLD. I'm sick of it. There's that. I've looked forward to the time to NOT plug anything in, like the other 278,000,000 car owners who dont worry about their battery dying.

I did some math based on my driving history which I tracked on my road-trip car hybrid SUV (19,920 miles, 804 gallons, averaging 24.8MPG) pre-covid. In the three years between 2018 to 2020, I filled my tank 81 times. Let's say 10 minutes per trip, for a total of 13.5 hours. Note that if it were the Macan I'd be making a lot more trips to the pump.

I got records too. And did the math on one car. So compare the time you spent charging on the road to the comparable time getting gas. I counted 44 x 5 mins = 220 mins or 3.6 hours. How many hours would be that waiting at chargers, that is, if they are not broken???

1. I dont need some app to tell me where a gas station is. They are everywhere.
2. I dont need to worry about running out of gas anywhere East of the Mississippi. You can't throw a rock and not hit a gas station, sometimes four on the same corner
3. When "on the road", I am NOT going to sit and wait more than 5 minutes for anything. I got places to go, people to see, and things to do.
4. I do not have any desire to sit and Eat at the Jersey Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer Rest Area to sample their delicacies or to avoid the scammers in the parking lot. etc etc etc

So Im not seeing the point. Sure, charge at home, a pain cause you gotta remember to plug it in and I've been doing that religiously for the last 15 years anyway. But a major pain on the road. Compare apples to apples. I got no issue with about town runabouts.

And its no effort to drive to a gas station. Since they are everywhere, they are in "on the way" home or to wherever I go.

 

OK, I'll bite. Remember I have repeatedly said I got no issue with an about town runabout, which is basically how you use it. My issue is sunk costs to allow that to happen, which I aint going to pay to anymore than if they told me to build a gas station. So ...



I get you like charging at home and like I said, I would have no real issue with that. However 15 years I've about plugged in my Porsches everytime they are parked (to avoid the battery dying). And its is a MAJOR PAIN. It's OLD. I'm sick of it. There's that. I've looked forward to the time to NOT plug anything in, like the other 278,000,000 car owners who dont worry about their battery dying.



I got records too. And did the math on one car. So compare the time you spent charging on the road to the comparable time getting gas. I counted 44 x 5 mins = 220 mins or 3.6 hours. How many hours would be that waiting at chargers, that is, if they are not broken???

1. I dont need some app to tell me where a gas station is. They are everywhere.
2. I dont need to worry about running out of gas anywhere East of the Mississippi. You can't throw a rock and not hit a gas station, sometimes four on the same corner
3. When "on the road", I am NOT going to sit and wait more than 5 minutes for anything. I got places to go, people to see, and things to do.
4. I do not have any desire to sit and Eat at the Jersey Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer Rest Area to sample their delicacies or to avoid the scammers in the parking lot. etc etc etc

So Im not seeing the point. Sure, charge at home, a pain cause you gotta remember to plug it in and I've been doing that religiously for the last 15 years anyway. But a major pain on the road. Compare apples to apples. I got no issue with about town runabouts.

And its no effort to drive to a gas station. Since they are everywhere, they are in "on the way" home or to wherever I go.

You remember the time I ran out of gas ? I was driving and completely unknowing some news came out of Cuba that sparked a full scale protest in just about every street in Miami . I was stuck for hours . I even had to park and use. restroom at a supermarket only to get back in. traffic . People were on. every street and even b locked the highway walking into it . I was on 1/8 of a tank . I finally made it close before the car died . I got out and could not budge it . I was in the worst spot and suddenly I hear a voice "can I help" . I turn around and a guy 1/3 my age and huge helped push my car a few blocks and I GOT GAS !!!!

Had this been an EV it would have been toast . Even tow trucks were paralyzed ,

 

It seems this whole thread has decayed down to people trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV

Not much of a discussion at this point. Just tip-toeing around words and topics . . . thread will be a hundred pages long and nothing will change

I will resort back to the ICE topics and leave you gents to hash out the EV agenda

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

AVM

 

The same could be said that this thread is about justifying why EVs suck, will not pick up further adoption, and just don't work.

I'm not trying to justify the existence and purchase of a Macan EV. On another thread I have already said while it's a lovely car, the price is hard for me to swallow.

Is it so hard to believe that in a lot of situations, EVs make a lot of sense? Even grim believes that EVs work (well?) as around town runabouts. Maybe your situation is different (and that is fine, no one is attacking your lifestyle and forcing you to buy a Macan EV today) but I believe there's a lot of EV FUD that potential Macan EV buyers here would benefit from the discussion. And that hearing from actual EV owners who can share their lived experience would help.

“It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have fooled”

 

I'm sick of … having my wife run down the tank before letting me know she needs gas.

😅 Join the club

there are many empty charging stations.

We are 3,000 miles apart, vastly different areas. We have many ev chargers, all empty, mostly at walmart, free ones at Walgreens. Who goes to a drug store to charge? I once saw someone charging at a mall. We used to have bikes for rent near downtown area, now gone. My guess? No one rented them. I see zero evs daily, maybe 2 or 3 within 10 mile radius all Teslas. Rare for any other make. I saw a Model S once (I pay attention to cars), an i4, and a Bolt. Life is just a sea of pickups and SUVs.

. "8. On average, Americans take about seven road trips in their lifetimes."

Everone is different. Ive seen the USA in my chevy and would never give that back, its priceless, been to so many backwoods places I cant name them all, no cell phone service, no name motels, and far from the maddening crowd. Get off the beaten track and see the beauty of the nation, and lower CAN

Think Route 66 without the drama.

 

Hi fellow Porsche enthusiasts. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed all the discussions. Sometimes things get feisty but I like that because we all have opinions, whether lovers, haters, or fence sitters. My wife came to Porsche in 2023 with the purchase of a 2023 Taycan 4S (in a fabulous Frozenberry colour) and a 2023 Macan GTS (Papaya, obviously). See a couple of pics below. Previously, my wife drove a Mercedes AMG C63s (and a bunch of BMWs before that car) and I drove a Landscruiser Sahara (and a bunch of BMWs X5 30D before that car). Neither of us had had an EV prior to the Taycan, and neither of us had had cars in the Porsche caliber full-stop.

My wife loved the C63s V8 engine. It was wonderful. The car drove well and was exceptionally fun as a DD. But it looked ordinary. If you didn't know it had "that engine", the average citizen would just think it another car on the road. Same for the Landcruiser. Sure I had the top-specced version but they are dime-a-dozen here in Australia. Lopes along the highway effortlessly, but a whale of a car that wanders, floats, and swims through traffic. I was sick of the size and boat-like feeling.

Forget about the ICE versus EV thing for a moment. The Taycan is really fun to drive. The instant torque does not get old. It is fun to give the throttle a stab off the lights and go like the clappers. The interior is a massive improvement on the Mercedes, which itself was better than any car we had previously owned. Did she buy an EV for "climate change" reasons? No way. She just wanted a fancy car that looked like a fancy car. The Macan was nice for her, but she didn't want an SUV. She refused to test out the two door varieties because she wanted the flexibility of taking extra passengers from time to time. So between the Panamera and the Taycan she decided it was time to try the EV. Previously we had test driven all the Tesla models, usually in performance versions. She has plenty of friends and colleagues who have Tesla's and they all seem to love them. But for my wife, Tesla's are not exciting to look at.

She is not strictly an "enthusiast". And yet she exhibits some of the enthusiast characteristics @grim mentions. In particular, she looks back at her Taycan, and at every opportunity says "look at the back side of my car"! Isn't it hot!??

And yet I am very glad I have the Macan GTS and not the Taycan. I find the Taycan too large. It corners savagely but I get what @yyalis1 and others say about the extra weight and being "nimble". I love the exhaust note. I love the hard revving. I love the perceived variations of power as the turbo kicks. We have never "dragged" off the lights but I assume the Taycan would win (I don't know)? And yet I don't care. I do really love this Macan and am sympathetic with those who have owned many Macans, or have owned one for a long time, and love them. I understand that you (and I) want more ICE versions.

The above notwithstanding, I suspect the reality of EV ownership is very different depending on world-wide location. This has been touched on again and again in the hundreds of posts above, but having read all (or nearly all) of them, I'm not sure posters are really appreciating the geographical and situational differences? Fundamentalism abounds in so many inquiries of life -- and is alive and well here too. I like to live in the grey and listen to all sides of the argument.

Cold Weather: In Queensland Australia, there is no issue about cold-weather-limitations on the battery. Just as I acknowledge that the Taycan is not a particularly "good" car for cold weather areas, to be fair, that limitation applies, well, only to cold-weather-areas. It is misleading (in my opinion) to discount EVs on the basis of cold weather.

Infrastructure: In this thread, there is extensive polarising views around charging infrastructure and charging at home and abroad. In Australia, at least in Queensland, charging at home is easy. I suspect it is not so easy in many parts of the USA. I acknowledge the geographical differences, but it is misleading (in my opinion) to discount (universally) EVs on the basis of electrical infrastructure.

Range: For sure, range is poor by comparison. My wife's Taycan has the "extended battery" and barely gets 300km of range. That's a mere 186 miles. My Macan will get an easy 500kms around town and up to 700kms of highway driving. Ahem, unless I start enjoying that exhaust note too much in which case it reduces closer to 400kms on a tank of petrol (gas). But that's flogging it. I'm fairly confident no one buys the Taycan for its range. That said, my wife drives 30km per day and it is easy for us to charge on weekends using majority solar power. Whether range becomes a factor depends on the use of the car. Totally sympathetic to those who love their EVs (like my wife) who drive around town only, and those who strongly dislike the range limitation because they go on road trips. Understood. But I wish those who are so against the EV's poor range would acknowledge that some of us have excellent electrical infrastructure, extensive 3PH solar generation, and low DD range requirements. In the same breath, I acknowledge that there are plenty participating here who do not have access to good electrical infrastructure, do not have solar power, and have high or varied DD range requirements. Grey area.

Depreciation: I don't doubt that the Taycan depreciates very badly and will be worth nothing at some point (all too soon). But I'm surprised at how much this matters to other posters on this thread. So surprised that I wonder whether depreciation is really experiential and car-dependent? I see comments about 992s appreciating in value. Wow. By comparison, the Taycan is atrocious. For all my previous cars (Ford, Toyota, BMW, Lexus) depreciation is generally savage. I got a "lot" for my Landcruiser but I put this down to the Covid effect and the fact that my 200 series land cruiser was among the last of the 200 series V8s. Since my wife and I come from an experience where depreciation is high, we are less phased by the depreciation of the Taycan. I assume 992 owners would find the depreciation of a Taycan simply intolerable. Grey area.

Insurance: This is an area that absolutely must be acknowledged as location dependent. So many posters report (or surmise) that insurance premiums are extremely high for EVs. This is simply not the case here, and a more nuanced view is required. To be specific, the Taycan policy is $3,125AUD for one year of premium insurance (for a car that cost $259k AUD), while her Mercedes AMG 63s cost $3,084AUD for one year of equivalent insurance (for a car that cost $180k AUD). These numbers are hard facts. No one can say whether insurance premiums will change in the future. But to say that EVs are far more expensive to insure is simply wrong for us, living in Australia, in 2024. Grey area?

Conclusion: My wife bought the Taycan 4S because she liked how it looked. She also likes how it drives. She likes the luxury. And she loves the colour. I bought the Macan GTS because I liked how it looked. I much prefer how it drives. And I love the ICE theatre. I understand all that discussion about EVs being forced on us, etc. But EVs are not being forced on us in Australia. We both got exactly what we wanted. Take care.

 

Hi fellow Porsche enthusiasts. Since joining, I have very much enjoyed all the discussions.

A very balanced, healthy, and logical POV. thank you for this insightful view. All to often, we all can only see whats inside are own bubbles and not the greater picture.

👏 👍

 

Let me make this PERFECTLY clear.

EVERYONE who contemplates, owns, or just wants to discuss, ANY Macan is more than welcome. And I will refer directly to our Community Standards. Rule 1

We expect our members to treat each other respectfully on MacanForum.com. Although ideas and opinions may be challenged, name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.

If anyone feels ANY of the standards have been violated, click on the three buttons on every post and report it and the reason why. @oqjnLu@>@W or myself will respond. Do not expect either of us to read every post in every thread. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.

As to pushback from the ICE vs EV segments, what did you expect to happen? If the end game comes true, a world of electric vehicles, did you expect the longtime Porsche faithful to embrace the new technology with smiling faces when they see THEIR world crumble before them? All you've got to do is understand the history of the marque. It came about because the founder built the car of his dreams. People bought them, drove them during the week, and raced them on weekends. The company went on to DOMINATE endurance racing. Its foundation is based on world class racing. To this day they still back race teams and build race cars. It's what they do. And the people who buy these cars have a passion and loyalty that you can see from the posts themselves, and this isn't even a sports car forum. If the vehicle is an appliance to you, then it doesn't matter. It's just an expensive washing machine. But if it's something more, something where you visit your garage to just polish or see your car, if it's what you dreamed about owning all your life or buy one after another, what did you expect to happen?

Some 911 purists laughed at the lower priced cars like the 914/924/944 and successors. And then the Cayenne and Macan were built and they were not viewed kindly by some sports car buyers. And yet, here we are, some owners owning BOTH the sports cars and 4 door cars. Things change, whether it be from air cooled to water cooled, or two door to 4 door, even rear engined to mid-engined. Suddenly the race cars are "mid-engined". Imagine that.

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

There inevitably will be discussion on electric grids, resources, expenses, the advantages or disadvantages of EVs, aesthetics, hidden costs like insurance, the abuse the pavement takes if everyone drives heavier vehicles, new technologies, and old technologies. So be it. Its why forums exists, to discuss, and to help each other. To come together to discuss common interests. This is just the beginning. NOBODY has one of these cars yet. NOBODY know the complaints or the good things. Nobody knows the problems that will come with the first year cars. Nobody knows anything. It's all speculation.

Feel free to argue away, but please do not personally attack each other. Follow our community standards. Sometimes it's best to see BOTH sides. Personally, like I said before, I can see the point of a small electric around town runabout. But no way do I intend to pay the sunk costs with trenching, year long waits for the utility company, the cost of copper rising, labor rates for electricians.

It is what it is. In the US, the public and the market will decide. Elsewhere, that's up to wherever you live. Be happy. Your money, buy whatever you want. Feel good in your own decisions. You don't need to rationalize your acquisitions by getting anyone else opinions. You paid for it. They did not.

Please be nice to each other.

thank you

Well said, a seriously good piece of writing!

Let me make this PERFECTLY clear.

EVERYONE who contemplates, owns, or just wants to discuss, ANY Macan is more than welcome. And I will refer directly to our Community Standards. Rule 1

We expect our members to treat each other respectfully on MacanForum.com. Although ideas and opinions may be challenged, name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.

If anyone feels ANY of the standards have been violated, click on the three buttons on every post and report it and the reason why. @oqjnLu@>@W or myself will respond. Do not expect either of us to read every post in every thread. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.

As to pushback from the ICE vs EV segments, what did you expect to happen? If the end game comes true, a world of electric vehicles, did you expect the longtime Porsche faithful to embrace the new technology with smiling faces when they see THEIR world crumble before them? All you've got to do is understand the history of the marque. It came about because the founder built the car of his dreams. People bought them, drove them during the week, and raced them on weekends. The company went on to DOMINATE endurance racing. Its foundation is based on world class racing. To this day they still back race teams and build race cars. It's what they do. And the people who buy these cars have a passion and loyalty that you can see from the posts themselves, and this isn't even a sports car forum. If the vehicle is an appliance to you, then it doesn't matter. It's just an expensive washing machine. But if it's something more, something where you visit your garage to just polish or see your car, if it's what you dreamed about owning all your life or buy one after another, what did you expect to happen?

Some 911 purists laughed at the lower priced cars like the 914/924/944 and successors. And then the Cayenne and Macan were built and they were not viewed kindly by some sports car buyers. And yet, here we are, some owners owning BOTH the sports cars and 4 door cars. Things change, whether it be from air cooled to water cooled, or two door to 4 door, even rear engined to mid-engined. Suddenly the race cars are "mid-engined". Imagine that.

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

There inevitably will be discussion on electric grids, resources, expenses, the advantages or disadvantages of EVs, aesthetics, hidden costs like insurance, the abuse the pavement takes if everyone drives heavier vehicles, new technologies, and old technologies. So be it. Its why forums exists, to discuss, and to help each other. To come together to discuss common interests. This is just the beginning. NOBODY has one of these cars yet. NOBODY know the complaints or the good things. Nobody knows the problems that will come with the first year cars. Nobody knows anything. It's all speculation.

Feel free to argue away, but please do not personally attack each other. Follow our community standards. Sometimes it's best to see BOTH sides. Personally, like I said before, I can see the point of a small electric around town runabout. But no way do I intend to pay the sunk costs with trenching, year long waits for the utility company, the cost of copper rising, labor rates for electricians.

It is what it is. In the US, the public and the market will decide. Elsewhere, that's up to wherever you live. Be happy. Your money, buy whatever you want. Feel good in your own decisions. You don't need to rationalize your acquisitions by getting anyone else opinions. You paid for it. They did not.

Please be nice to each other.

thank you

 

Well said! A seriously good piece of writing.

 

Biden Administration Is Said to Slow Early Stage of Shift to Electric Cars - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

"Instead of essentially requiring automakers to rapidly ramp up sales of electric vehicles over the next few years, the administration would give car manufacturers more time, with a sharp increase in sales not required until after 2030, these people said. They asked to remain anonymous because the regulation has not been finalized. The administration plans to publish the final rule by early spring."

 

The administration plans to publish the final rule by early spring."

This is entirely political and any "regulation" waived with a stroke of the pen by future administrations. This is NOT law that is difficult to change but a "regulation" created by executive agencies.

Lets leave this discussion off the table as it is political in nature

thanks

 

Our family also loved the way Taycan (1st gen) looked when it first came out, it may have been in our garage if it offered the ICE edition. After reviewing more design and look on Macan EV, not sure why headlight cluster had to be in the middle of front bumper instead of top light cluster?

The weight on each new model is getting heavier, not efficient for range, not safe when it hits the guardrails.

The weight gain is also not helping the infra! Creating more road damage according to the study!

 

Our family also loved the way Taycan (1st gen) looked when it first came out, it may have been in our garage if it offered the ICE edition. After reviewing more design and look on Macan EV, not sure why headlight cluster had to be in the middle of front bumper instead of top light cluster?

The weight on each new model is getting heavier, not efficient for range, not safe when it hits the guardrails.

The weight gain is also not helping the infra! Creating more road damage according to the study!

Videos are starting to surface about how great the are on the track . (Pro EV propaganda ) . The tire and brake wear along with road maintenance are of course not even mentioned . I dont doubt that Porsche defied physics to create decent hop laps .

PCA is on top of it . I read nothing about them eager to host regular DE and in fact made a point back in November to mention that the 911 will be the last shoe to fall. Porsche and EVs: What we know so far | PCA Tech Tips | Porsche Club of America

 

What's the difference road maintenance-wise for a 5000lb EV and a 5000lb ICE SUV? An Escalade weighs 400lb more than the Macan EV and I have not noticed the Macan ICE forum members complaining about the Escalades tearing up the roads.

Its not about the tiny pittance of Macans on US roads but the end game. There are ~280,000,000 registered vehicles on the road in the US. If they are all increased by 25% in weight as the Macan has been, who is going to pay for the damage to the US road systems? Why is that never discussed?

... have never seen such animosity towards those genuinely interested in Macan EV.

I think you are reading the room wrong. Porsche builds sports cars. Everything is derived from 911 "DNA". Its all about racing from James Dean's haunted 550 to the latest 919 or whatever the latest racing versions might be. At least from observing here, an enthusiasts forum, who were the Macan buyers? Three main groups: previous owners in the marque, those that wanted a CUV that served as a sports sedan, and last those moving up in the price bracket from the Japanese luxury market (e.g., Acura, Lexus). Why? Fundamentally, I believe its all about the foundation in racing. Nobody puts a poster of an electric car on their bedroom wall and dreams "One day I will own that electric car". Its not inspirational tied to their heritage.

I do not believe it to be animosity to "people". If so, it would be a direct violation of our community standards. But moreso toward the lack of choice from the company known for racing. In the end, people will decide with their wallets. They will buy them or walk away. Surely they know this

Will The All-New 2025 Porsche Macan Succeed As An EV?

Unlike every Porsche Macan on the road for the past decade, its all-new replacement will be 100 percent combustion-free — Porsche is making the new 2025 Macan electric.

www.forbes.com

"... as driving enthusiasts still haven’t fully embraced any pure-electric vehicles, Porsche’s greatest challenge is to look outside its traditional customer base to fill the void."

Look at the launch, in Singapore, with female presenters. Who was the target audience? Where was the Macan launched? At the LA auto show with Maria Sharipova and a race car driver as presenters. Who was the target audience? Different vehicles, different geographic locations, different target demographics. Theres a word for getting these sales from other marques, conquest sales AKA get people from different marques to switch marques.

Automotive Conquest Marketers View People As Prey To Be Captured

Established car companies and their dealers still see new customers as “conquests.” We are prey waiting to be conquered. However, excessive emphasis on Conquest Cash to capture customers is marketing poison that degrades brand reputation.

www.forbes.com

its about choice.

 

Its not about the tiny pittance of Macans on US roads but the end game. There are ~280,000,000 registered vehicles on the road in the US. If they are all increased by 25% in weight as the Macan has been, who is going to pay for the damage to the US road systems? Why is that never discussed?



I think you are reading the room wrong. Porsche builds sports cars. Everything is derived from 911 "DNA". Its all about racing from James Dean's haunted 550 to the latest 919 or whatever the latest racing versions might be. At least from observing here, an enthusiasts forum, who were the Macan buyers? Three main groups: previous owners in the marque, those that wanted a CUV that served as a sports sedan, and last those moving up in the price bracket from the Japanese luxury market (e.g., Acura, Lexus). Why? Fundamentally, I believe its all about the foundation in racing. Nobody puts a poster of an electric car on their bedroom wall and dreams "One day I will own that electric car". Its not inspirational tied to their heritage.

I do not believe it to be animosity to "people". If so, it would be a direct violation of our community standards. But moreso toward the lack of choice from the company known for racing. In the end, people will decide with their wallets. They will buy them or walk away. Surely they know this

Will The All-New 2025 Porsche Macan Succeed As An EV?

Unlike every Porsche Macan on the road for the past decade, its all-new replacement will be 100 percent combustion-free — Porsche is making the new 2025 Macan electric.

www.forbes.com

"... as driving enthusiasts still haven’t fully embraced any pure-electric vehicles, Porsche’s greatest challenge is to look outside its traditional customer base to fill the void."

Look at the launch, in Singapore, with female presenters. Who was the target audience? Where was the Macan launched? At the LA auto show with Maria Sharipova and a race car driver as presenters. Who was the target audience? Different vehicles, different geographic locations, different target demographics. Theres a word for getting these sales from other marques, conquest sales AKA get people from different marques to switch marques.

Automotive Conquest Marketers View People As Prey To Be Captured

Established car companies and their dealers still see new customers as “conquests.” We are prey waiting to be conquered. However, excessive emphasis on Conquest Cash to capture customers is marketing poison that degrades brand reputation.

www.forbes.com

its about choice.

Porsche is more than happy to take the money from all those LA soccer moms and us wimpy men who want a sporty SUV to lug their pansy kayaks and work cargo around. Yeah, we should stay off the real Porsche forums though.

 

Re: the incredible mass of EVs

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room associated with these heavyweight vehicles that has to do with
physics and collisions. The heavier vehicle always "wins". With an EV one had better hope that, as a result of the collision,
the battery doesn't decide to combust and fuel itself. That aside, one wouldn't want to be riding in a 3200 lb. vehicle
when it collides with a 5500 lb. vehicle!


YMMV...

 

Well, if they want to ban heavy EVs, then they should also ban heavy everything. Escalades, pickups etc… OR, have safety standards that protect the occupants given the expected accidents that might occur. Wait. They have this already? Hurrah!

 

Well I see your point about weight. I guess we should scrap this whole EV thing then….
OR
We scrap the portion of the gas tax that is supposed to go to road maintenance. Instead, we introduce a fee as part of the vehicle registration. It can be tied to mileage (so heavy drivers pay more for using roads more) as well as weight (so heavier vehicles, regardless of how they are propelled pay their share). We can also add driving style since heave acceleration, cornering and braking are harder on the roads.

Problem solved.

 

@rcomeau - At least we can discuss our differences . You didnt get called a troll or get banned . I even wish you wil with the car . Rennlist allows me to post in every other section EXCEPT EV and I dont want to at this point. They deserve the EV Macan . Especially that guy with the long signature boasting he's a cup car track hero .. yada yada . To me he's words on a page of nothingness !!!!!

I went there because early on this thread I someone felt like a minority so I went there as a minority . I still had the same questions !! They were ready to talk about anything ELSE except the topic .

 

Whats the study show?

The costs of lives lost by F=MA rivals the benefit of CO2 reduction?

Make electric vehicles lighter to maximize climate and safety benefits

Tax heavy cars and shrink batteries to consolidate the gains from electrifying transport.

www.nature.com

 

And it gets worse. Just as houses were never intended to take the electric loads of car chargers, the roads were never designed to haul these battery cars

Weight matters, not only in saving the lives of pedestrians but in holistic costs.

EVs Are Too Heavy for Current Road Weight Limits, Car Haulers Say

Per a standard set in 1975, haulers are restricted to 80,000 pounds gross vehicle weight. The industry wants that upped to 88,000 pounds.

www.thedrive.com

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-sales-grow-battle-over-road-weight-limits-heats-up-2022-10-05/

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/heavy-evs-could-collapse-old-parking-garages-

Heavy electric vehicles could put pressure on parking garages, experts warn

 

Everything is a tradeoff, right? If it's relevant to point out the implications of an EVs weight, which it is, then surely it's relevant to point out the implications of an ICE engine: pollution, heat, noise, wearing parts, routine maintenance, etc. On balance, which is better? You decide. In this thread some people want to talk about wear and tear on parking garages, whereas in the larger world people are talking about a much larger problem, which apparently is off limits here, but which certainly has bearing. No honest discussion of the merits and demerits of each technology is possible unless all the facts can be presented.

That said, I think it's great to have a rants thread like this. I just wish the rants were limited to this thread and didn't bleed over to discussions about the Macan EV itself, for those of us who are already aware of what the Macan EV weighs and just want to discuss its features. I don't intrude on threads related to ICE Macans (of which I own one) to protest, "But what about emissions!", so I wish the EV opponents would show the same consideration.

 

if you felt the initial threads were interrupted, it grew to the point where it’s not going to happen anymore. my initial post where I said “this is depressing“ summed up a lot of hurt to see a car that I care about so much go out like this. You are the next chapter with the Macan. Good luck. With your electric Porsche.

 

Its not about the tiny pittance of Macans on US roads but the end game. There are ~280,000,000 registered vehicles on the road in the US. If they are all increased by 25% in weight as the Macan has been, who is going to pay for the damage to the US road systems? Why is that never discussed?

This is a very slippery slope argument. The amount of EVs on the road is not going to change overnight. The SUV and hybrid craze has been continuing for a long time, adding significant weight to roads but you don't see anyone picking on those issues the same way. Even regular passengers have been bloating for a long time! But oh no, EVs! lol

And it gets worse. Just as houses were never intended to take the electric loads of car chargers, the roads were never designed to haul these battery cars

Again with houses, it will happen over time. I already showed data that half of houses can support L2 chargers (assuming L2 charging is even needed). The grid will adapt.

Going back to the adoption curve we're not close to the top of the bell where mass change will happen. Market forces will adjust to address these challenges. Supply and demand.

Whats the study show?

The costs of lives lost by F=MA rivals the benefit of CO2 reduction?

Make electric vehicles lighter to maximize climate and safety benefits

Tax heavy cars and shrink batteries to consolidate the gains from electrifying transport.

www.nature.com

Everything is a tradeoff but how can you calculate the people impact of CO2? Super debatable and already off topic.

 

Market forces will adjust to address these challenges.

Good thought. Let’s allow market forces to determine how and when evs enter the system, not mandates.

 

You are putting the cart before the horse. Initially, when the automobile was introduced, it shared the same roads as horses. The choice between a horse and a car was made by individual consumers. With the popularity of the automobile, particularly the inexpensive Ford Model T in 1908, there became a demand for better roadways that could accommodate the widespread ownership and use of cars. That is what lead to the Federal Aid Road Act of 1916. So, public funds were used to build public projects intended to improve the lives of citizens. That's what a government should do. The most significant distinction is that the mandate involved public property (roadways) not private property (cars or horses). There was no governmental mandate that forced consumers to buy cars. Individuals decided on their own whether to purchase a horse or a car. It was the free market at work. At this point in time, most consumers have chosen ice over ev. That may change over time as evs evolve and improve and consumer concerns about them are addressed. Those concerns include price, weight, range, required additional equipment (charging equipment), and resale value, among others. A Federal Tax Credit available for many of the ev cars and state/local rebates don't seem to be helping much to move ev cars. If and when evs are improved and consumer concerns are addressed, they will then become more popular. That is how the free market works. It's not, a mandate telling individuals what type of personal property they can buy.

 

I did not say one came before the other. I am simply saying that there are synergistic forces between cars and roads. Roads existed before cars but you cannot deny that government mandates to build roads and highways literally helped paved the path for cars.

There is no mandate telling individuals what type of cars they can buy. We are thinking 10+ years from now and the landscape may be vastly different, but I believe you can still buy used ICE cars.

 

Price cuts for evs.

Ford is slashing prices for electric cars after sales took a nosedive last month

 

Price cuts for evs.

Ford is slashing prices for electric cars after sales took a nosedive last month

 

I enjoyed that Ford video, it’s just another viewpoint. I would love a Taycan as a second or third vehicle, but not primary. Canada has finally caught on and the prices are FINALLY starting to drop, so I will wait until they get under $80k.
They talk about price drop, but what about range increase; you just bought an EV that will do about 250 miles and next years model will do 450…

 

Biggest issue won't be the range I feel but the time it takes to charge.
The range is fine but it is quite slow to charge making it a less than ideal road-tripper.

 

I stumbled upon some great battery maintenance knowledge that will help our lucky new Macan EV owners:

Summary:
1. Don't store at 100% charge. If you cook your battery for 200 days at a temp of 122F at 100% charge, your battery will lose 40% capacity. Store at 30% charge for 400 days at 122F and the battery will still have 85% capacity. Doesn't matter if it's cold.
2. Plug in after every trip. Low depth of discharge is ideal. If you constantly go from 60% to 40% (~50 mile trips) and charge it back, your battery will have 85% capacity after the equivalent of 3200 full cycles. That's roughly 800,000 miles before your battery reaches 85% capacity.
3. Don't regularly charge to 100%. Stay below 75% unless you want to take a road trip. Charging to 100% once in a while does not hurt.

Edit: Applies to NMC batteries (typically longer range, performance EVs). Does not apply to LFP batteries.

 

One word from across the atlantic, and home of all Porsches.
Basically the current Macan EV appears to me not to be the final answer, but when looking at Taycan performance (have driven several times, also on the Hockenheimring, though behind an instructor, but with PASM off) it is a great car to drive. Nowadays accelerating in 2.4s is world class, combined with a great chassis and suspension it is solely fun to race. Not even my 1000cc Yamaha moto did go like this. Macan's real issue for me is that they copied too much from Audi in the first place. Macan configurator shows already a gearbox option button, but only for 1 gear. With the Taycan's choice of 2 gears for its engines, it would probably diffentiate from the ICE version and offer already an USP among other EVs in combination with an acceptable Porsche-style chassis & suspension.

 

I believe the configurator looks the way it does so it works for all Porsche cars.
Taycan will show 2 gears, Macan single transmission, Cayenne 8-Speed Tiptronic S, 911 something else, etc - but on the EVs, you don't get to choose the gearbox.

I don't see that as the Macan getting the option for different gears later on.

 

Why invent a printing press and put a bunch of monks with pens out of work? Oh, right. It ushered in an era where just about everyone on earth gets to learn to read

False equivalence. Try an example in a modern, capitalist environment and where the solution is MORE people will buy vehicles, as in more people could read books. Compare apples to apples.

So what's the solution? What is your end game?

I don't need an endgame. The endgame I refer to is the solution 280,000,000 US registered vehicles converted to EV. This analysis shows the aftermarket parts industry doing very well post pandemic

USA Aftermarket Car Parts Market - Trends & Size

The United States Aftermarket Automotive Parts & Components Market is growing at a CAGR of 2% over the next 5 years. Magna International Inc., Continental AG, ZF Friedrichshafen AG, DENSO Corporation and Lear Corporation are the major companies operating in this market.

www.mordorintelligence.com

It also speaks to the EV aftermarket parts. There are two components that I see, the SEMA type for the modders and the FRAM filter type, instead of buying OEM parts. This report indicates that the second part makers will just start making EV drivetrain components.

In the end, I believe Toyota is correct. While he is speaking worldwide that there will be 30% penetration, I expect he is correct for the US, IOW someday I can see 93M EVs registers on US roads and they never exceed 33% penetration.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-chairman-doubles-down-electric-111721568.html

Will the modders, that is those who modify their cars as a hobby buy EVs? I doubt it. The whole point is to tinker with the drivetrains. If true, the won't buy EVs anyway and therefore the SEMA type market not effected.

 

Will the modders, that is those who modify their cars as a hobby buy EVs? I doubt it. The whole point is to tinker with the drivetrains. If true, the won't buy EVs anyway and therefore the SEMA type market not effected.

Since you doubt it, modder right here. Added integrated dashcam and carplay to my Lexus, had accessport on my Macan, and added rock sliders to my Rivian. There is a huge aftermarket market for EVs. There's more to cars than drivetrain and if I can do more, I will. Just another different, new toy to play with.

 

When one compares an iPhone to a car, that says it all. I have never been interested in having my iPhone, refrigerator or washing machine modded, but the ice of a car, absolutely yes.

 

I modded my Dishwasher once. It needed a new filter and the OEM prices were outrageous. So I bought "fram" equivalent filter. It worked fine for 1/3 the cost of OEM. 😀 that is the aftermarket parts part of the industry where the MM law comes into play. Manufacturers must allow you to use aftermarket parts and not deny warranty coverage.