[Footie]

I struggle to understand what problems they are having with their home charging, the electricity price has went up, HELLO the electricity has went up on their entire bill in their home, are they complaining about using their Air-con, their TV, their washing machine etc. Let’s look at this price of 15 cents/KW, how does this price compare to going to a commercial charging station or better still let’s take the Taycan and its 83KW usage capacity (I think it’s that) which on average can do around 270-280 miles, so to cover 280 miles is costing those owners with a home charger less than $12.50, find me an ICE car which similar performance that will cost only $12.50 to cover 280 miles.

Next the complaint about they wished it could charge quicker, this again I am struggling with, you charge it during the wee small hours whilst you sleep so I reckon what they are doing is not topping it up often enough, if that means every night or every other night then so be it.

Fellow EVs users help me out here, am I wrong with my opinion here.

I hear people talking about when the numbers of EVs go up wait and see what they do to the price of the electricity on using them. How can they determine how the electricity is being used or what is connected to it?

If the electricity price goes up it will be across the board for every household.

 

[ericsan13]

I think those EV-haters you will never convince, they will continue to throw up a reason why they don’t want to switch to one…. which I don’t have a problem with, if they don’t want one then don’t buy one because there are plenty other cars on sale to chose from, in fact far more than there are EVs.

Yup I am not trying to convince them. Just trying to counter some of the negativity and false perceptions. I was surprised to find a EV thread that is so anti-EV. Hopefully Porsche has better luck with enthusiasts.

Their perception is their reality.

Ain't that the truth.

Trapping yourself behind a utility company, a monopoly, is a bad idea. At least with oil, there are MANY different brands of gas stations. Don't like Shell, Dutch? Go buy some Exxon, or whatever. But Electicity? NO, you are trapped, and all those other tiny energy companies get the electricity on the SAME lines as the main utility companies.

This guy is right. If EV ever gets to say 50% market, 140M EV on the road, just watch how much you pay for electricity match gas prices.

Multiple discussions over other forums about how it's pretty much impossible to meter electric rates specific to EVs. They'll have to raise rates for everyone and in the meantime I'll have long recovered the cost, not that cost was a deciding factor for me.

Their a huge difference between the perception of those with an EV and those without, for a start those that have an EV still own an ICE car or have previously owned one so they actually have a benchmark to compare whilst those that don’t own one have only their opinions with no experience.

Yes I currently have a ICE, ICE w/turbo, hybrid, and EV. Each has it's merits. But I do believe that majority will realize they are holding onto a blackberry when iphones/androids have been out for years. But there will always be those still in love with their blackberry (and maybe they have a good reason to). I think sports car enthusiasts will have the most difficult perception to change.

 

[ericsan13]

I struggle to understand what problems they are having with their home charging, the electricity price has went up, HELLO the electricity has went up on their entire bill in their home, are they complaining about using their Air-con, their TV, their washing machine etc. Let’s look at this price of 15 cents/KW, how does this price compare to going to a commercial charging station or better still let’s take the Taycan and its 83KW usage capacity (I think it’s that) which on average can do around 270-280 miles, so to cover 280 miles is costing those owners with a home charger less than $12.50, find me an ICE car which similar performance that will cost only $12.50 to cover 280 miles.

Next the complaint about they wished it could charge quicker, this again I am struggling with, you charge it during the wee small hours whilst you sleep so I reckon what they are doing is not topping it up often enough, if that means every night or every other night then so be it.

Fellow EVs users help me out here, am I wrong with my opinion here.

I hear people talking about when the numbers of EVs go up wait and see what they do to the price of the electricity on using them. How can they determine how the electricity is being used or what is connected to it?

If the electricity price goes up it will be across the board for every household.

You have a valid opinion.

The counter argument is usually that "I have to take it on a roadtrip once a year, and therefore I must have a fast charger" or "the charging station is so bad/slow". But yes, most of the time you can definitely get away charging it with the 120V already in your garage, consuming less wattage than a hair dryer. But yes there are those who don't have garages, have long commutes, and other reasonable excuses who will always be dead-set against EV and will be the loudest.

My prediction is that it will be a privilege to have an EV (people with newer houses, fast chargers, garages). Most EVs are already expensive compared to the average car and it's a luxury item. Same goes if you can afford a gas-guzzling Porsche. It's the cost you're willing to pay.

 

[dave-t]

Not sure if this has been discussed but if you look at the size of Britain and size of the US and how many people who live in both you are comparing apples to oranges. The US is much larger and has many more people as result I just don’t see how they would be able to get enough charging stations in the us to make it make it work. Then there is the issue I keep hearing about home charging, if you live In a condo that is not brand new there is no charging options and to get it installed is near impossible. My building is 19years old and our building has been waiting well before Covid to have the Building setup, the electric company does not want to do it, how do I know my wife is the president of the condo board. We even went as far as getting the electric vault updated to accommodate all of the ev charging but the electric company wants nothing to do with it. So how do you deal with charging if you live in a condo in a huge metropolitan area. To make matters worse there is no land and everyone is pushing for more affordable housing which equates to more condos.

 

[Robert M]

I struggle to understand what problems they are having with their home charging, the electricity price has went up, HELLO the electricity has went up on their entire bill in their home, are they complaining about using their Air-con, their TV, their washing machine etc. Let’s look at this price of 15 cents/KW, how does this price compare to going to a commercial charging station or better still let’s take the Taycan and its 83KW usage capacity (I think it’s that) which on average can do around 270-280 miles, so to cover 280 miles is costing those owners with a home charger less than $12.50, find me an ICE car which similar performance that will cost only $12.50 to cover 280 miles.

Next the complaint about they wished it could charge quicker, this again I am struggling with, you charge it during the wee small hours whilst you sleep so I reckon what they are doing is not topping it up often enough, if that means every night or every other night then so be it.

Fellow EVs users help me out here, am I wrong with my opinion here.

I hear people talking about when the numbers of EVs go up wait and see what they do to the price of the electricity on using them. How can they determine how the electricity is being used or what is connected to it?

If the electricity price goes up it will be across the board for every household.

The price per kwh in California, from PG&E, averages from $0.30-$0.72 per kwh. I would love to see $0.15 per kwh.

 

[Footie]

The price per kwh in California, from PG&E, averages from $0.30-$0.72 per kwh. I would love to see $0.15 per kwh.

Is that the price you pay per KW at home or is that the price you pay at a charging station?

Where I am in the UK we are paying 20p/KW but prior to the war in Ukraine we were paying as little as 8p.

 

[grim]

I struggle to understand what problems they are having with their home charging, the electricity price has went up, HELLO the electricity has went up on their entire bill in their home, are they complaining about using their Air-con, their TV, their washing machine etc. .... connected to it?

If the electricity price goes up it will be across the board for every household.

I'll try, maybe the US and UK have totally different way of doing things. In the US EVERY STATE IS DIFFERENT. There can be multiple companies in ONE state delivering electricity. Read this

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/070915/how-strongly-does-government-regulation-impact-utilities-sector.asp

they are mostly private companies having, in effect, a MONOPOLY, on a product. Monopolies are BAD. Antitrust laws were put into effect over 100 years ago. To mitigate this, they are regulated by a commission. Power is generated by Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, hydro (dams), nuclear, wind, etc. The percentage are ALL OVER THE PLACE. These all effect prices. Prices across states can be VASTLY different. Read

Electricity Rates by State | September 2025 | Choose Energy

Discover which state has the highest and lowest kWh costs throughout the country with our September 2025 Electricity Rates Report.

www.chooseenergy.com

Rates can be DIFFERENT between summer and winter. Why? Because its not nice to let people freeze. IMO they don't seem to mind cutting of electricity when the weather is nice but its much different in the winter. Cutting off electricity in the winter is BAD. COLD Kills, heat, not so much.

Some companies want you to get EV. Why? THEY MAKE MORE MONEY. These are private companies in the business of making profits. Of course they want you to charge at home. You can have TWO rates, a residential rate for all your other stuff and an EV rate. TWO rates, two meters. They can know exactly what you are using it for.

What do you think is going to happen when demand is HIGH, when 50% of the 280M cars in the nation pull power? Rates go UP? Its all supply and demand. Just like when the demand for oil is up, prices go up. they can pump all the oil the want, but no demand? Prices drop. Early pandemic they couldn't give oil away. Oil futures were NEGATIVE, below zero. Oil was sitting in tankers in the pond.

NO, electric does not have to go up across the board for all households because its MANY companies and they will KNOW exactly what is pulling the power, your two EVs and not your TV. Example. This company its all or nothing. You pay a residential rate for everything.

https://duquesnelight.com/energy-money-savings/electric-vehicles/wholehome-ev-rate

But THIS company has a separate meter for your EV

ChargeSmart Electric Vehicle Rate Plans - EmpowerAuto

Do you own a battery or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle? Lower your energy costs by enrolling in one of our ChargeSmart EV rate plans. Learn more today.

www.santeecooper.com

Guess what can happen when there are TWO meters

 

[Footie]

I'll try, maybe the US and UK have totally different way of doing things. In the US EVERY STATE IS DIFFERENT. There can be multiple companies in ONE state delivering electricity. Read this

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/070915/how-strongly-does-government-regulation-impact-utilities-sector.asp

they are mostly private companies having, in effect, a MONOPOLY, on a product. Monopolies are BAD. Antitrust laws were put into effect over 100 years ago. To mitigate this, they are regulated by a commission. Power is generated by Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, hydro (dams), nuclear, wind, etc. The percentage are ALL OVER THE PLACE. These all effect prices. Prices across states can be VASTLY different. Read

Electricity Rates by State | September 2025 | Choose Energy

Discover which state has the highest and lowest kWh costs throughout the country with our September 2025 Electricity Rates Report.

www.chooseenergy.com

Rates can be DIFFERENT between summer and winter. Why? Because its not nice to let people freeze. IMO they don't seem to mind cutting of electricity when the weather is nice but its much different in the winter. Cutting off electricity in the winter is BAD. COLD Kills, heat, not so much.

Some companies want you to get EV. Why? THEY MAKE MORE MONEY. These are private companies in the business of making profits. Of course they want you to charge at home. So they incentive things, and you can have TWO rates, a residential rate for all your other stuff and an EV rate. TWO rates, two meters. They can know exactly what you are using it for.

What do you think is going to happen when demand is HIGH, when 50% of the 280M cars in the nation pull power? Rates go UP? Its all supply and demand. Just like when the demand for oil is up, prices go up. they can pump all the oil the want, but no demand? Prices drop. Early pandemic they couldn't give oil away. Oil futures were NEGATIVE, below zero. Oil was sitting in tankers in the pond.

NO, electric does not have to go up across the board for all households because its MANY companies and they will KNOW exactly what is pulling the power, your two EVs and not your TV. Example. This company its all or nothing. You pay a residential rate for everything.

https://duquesnelight.com/energy-money-savings/electric-vehicles/wholehome-ev-rate

But THIS company has a separate meter for your EV

ChargeSmart Electric Vehicle Rate Plans - EmpowerAuto

Do you own a battery or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle? Lower your energy costs by enrolling in one of our ChargeSmart EV rate plans. Learn more today.

www.santeecooper.com

Guess what can happen when there are TWO meters

I have a separate meter, one for daytime and another for night, we have two rates with cheaper being at night. The reason it’s cheaper is they continue to make electricity even if it’s not used because it cost more to turn off and on again so it never stops and because of this it’s better to have us using electricity and get something for it than it going to waste. I doubt it’s any different in your neck of the woods so I reckon they will continue to offer a better rate for off perk usage.

 

[grim]

Multiple discussions over other forums about how it's pretty much impossible to meter electric rates specific to EVs. They'll have to raise rates for everyone and in the meantime I'll have long recovered the cost, not that cost was a deciding factor for me.

See above, they can do it now.

I have a separate meter, one for daytime and another for night, we have two rates with cheaper being at night. The reason it’s cheaper is they continue to make electricity even if it’s not used because it cost more to turn off and on again so it never stops and because of this it’s better to have us using electricity and get something for it than it going to waste. I doubt it’s any different in your neck of the woods so I reckon they will continue to offer a better rate for off perk usage.

Thats TOU. We have digital smartmeters. There are no more meter readers, the digital ones can transmit usage periodically. I can pull up, to the hour, exactly how much power was used. TOU has been around for decades and doesnt require a separate meter because its the entire house.

With two meters, the ev can be on TOU and the rest of the house on residential rates, which is cheaper than peak TOU rates.

I can see my hourly usage, outside temp, and cost. On tuesday it was below freezing all day. Until 1pm spent about 45-50 cents an hour, I then put on the wood stove, temp dropped to 17F but electricity dropped to 17 cents an hour, by midnight the stove was out, 16F, and heat running, electric up to 50 cents. They know exactly what you spend money on and when.

 

[Robert M]

Is that the price you pay per KW at home or is that the price you pay at a charging station?

Where I am in the UK we are paying 20p/KW but prior to the war in Ukraine we were paying as little as 8p.

That is for household electric rates.

 

[ericsan13]

The price per kwh in California, from PG&E, averages from $0.30-$0.72 per kwh. I would love to see $0.15 per kwh.

13.5 cents per kWh for me here in Washington, taxes inclusive & year-round. Amazing that Cali rates are so high considering Cali has the most EVs.

I have a separate meter, one for daytime and another for night, we have two rates with cheaper being at night. The reason it’s cheaper is they continue to make electricity even if it’s not used because it cost more to turn off and on again so it never stops and because of this it’s better to have us using electricity and get something for it than it going to waste. I doubt it’s any different in your neck of the woods so I reckon they will continue to offer a better rate for off perk usage.

Mine is a flat rate, but I would love to see peak pricing. My utility uses a lot of renewable sources so probably why we're not coal rolling and using peak pricing. I still try to charge at night though to help the grid.

See above, they can do it now.

Lol yes, if you volunteer to get separate meter you apparently get a discount based on that program. And if you wanted to, you could choose not use their separate meter. Nothing stops you from using your normal 120V plug for an EV. How are they going to prove your EV was plugged in? Look through your garage? Good luck. I could even set my plug on a smart timer to make it look like it's not an EV charging constantly.

Guess what can happen when there are TWO meters

One outcome is net-metering, where the utility pays you to store electricity at night when there is excess production and return it during the day. Net effect is you get a discount for reducing the strain on the grid. Oh wait, several utilities already do this.

 

[grim]

Lol yes, if you volunteer to get separate meter you apparently get a discount based on that program. And if you wanted to, you could choose not use their separate meter. Nothing stops you from using your normal 120V plug for an EV. How are they going to prove your EV was plugged in? Look through your garage? Good luck. I could even set my plug on a smart timer to make it look like it's not an EV charging constantly.

I can look at my hourly usage, that they report wirelessly and tell you exactly what is going on, its obvious from the time of day, temp, and usage. I can see when the hot water heater goes on, the heat, the AC. They know cause they tell me, estimate, whats being used for, and the base usage, the amount you always use like outside lights at night, fridge, instant on electronics. They know. They can see millions of users and see the patterns. It does say its an estimate and they do profile but they do it to the dollar, eg hot water cost in Dec was $24. I can see exactly my base usage, which is interesting to know… they know.

 

[ericsan13]

I can look at my hourly usage, that they report wirelessly and tell you exactly what is going on, its obvious from the time of day, temp, and usage. I can see when the hot water heater goes on, the heat, the AC. They know cause they tell me, estimate, whats being used for, and the base usage, the amount you always use like outside lights at night, fridge, instant on electronics. They know. They can see millions of users and see the patterns. It does say its an estimate and they do profile but they do it to the dollar, eg hot water cost in Dec was $24. I can see exactly my base usage, which is interesting to know… they know.

Let's say I have 5 forced air heaters in my house, each 1500W that cycle on and off throughout the day at random intervals to maintain the temperature. Now I added a EV to the mix, also pulling exactly the same wattage (and can be set up to mimic the heaters if desired). Now instead of heaters it could be any 1500W device that tends to stay on. They have no clue and they are not going to charge you based off profiling. Best they can do is charge you a higher rate if you exceed a certain usage. Oh wait, they already do that.

Electricity is electricity. Why charge different rates for bath water vs. faucet water vs. lawn water, etc. It's the same thing, you use more or less and you pay a rate as with just about every utility.

 

[95B3.6]

You ain't seen nothing yet...

Request Rejected

 

[reguy]

There are plenty of people in the US who drive each day much more than the "average" number of miles. Range is a real concern for those people.

Also, according to the article below, people who buy EV drive fewer miles than the average US driver.

It's not just that tiny barely existent "road trip" crowd who are the EV hold outs.

Are You a Super Driver? Some States Want to Help You Go Electric. - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

"While the average American driver travels about 13,400 miles per year, people who buy electric vehicles today tend to drive them less than that,..." [ rest of the sentence has been deleted because of Forum Rule violation: NO discussion about climate change/global warming/etc. ]

 

[Footie]

There are plenty of people in the US who drive each day much more than the "average" number of miles. Range is a real concern for those people.

Also, according to the article below, people who buy EV drive fewer miles than the average US driver.

It's not just that tiny barely existent "road trip" crowd who are the EV hold outs.

Are You a Super Driver? Some States Want to Help You Go Electric. - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

"While the average American driver travels about 13,400 miles per year, people who buy electric vehicles today tend to drive them less than that, limiting the climate benefits of switching to a cleaner car."

I fall into the latter category doing on average only 8K miles per year and yet after I calculated the saving on fuel price compare to my M5 and even with the one extra full set of tyres I need on the i4M50 over a 3 year period than I need with the M5 I still save approximately £5K driving the i4.

If you are driving 20K miles per year that is still only an average of 55 miles per day so you could easily charge daily at night on average about 3-4 hours per night. Of course this requires actually remembering to put it on the charge but it’s a habit every EV owner already does.

 

[grim]

There are plenty of people in the US who drive each day much more than the "average" number of miles. Range is a real concern for those people.

Also, according to the article below, people who buy EV drive fewer miles than the average US driver.

It's not just that tiny barely existent "road trip" crowd who are the EV hold outs.

Are You a Super Driver? Some States Want to Help You Go Electric. - The New York Timeswww.nytimes.com

"While the average American driver travels about 13,400 miles per year, people who buy electric vehicles today tend to drive them less than that,..." [ rest of the sentence has been deleted because of Forum Rule violation: NO discussion about climate change/global warming/etc. ]

Thank you, good find too. And probably why I said I could see one for an about town "runabout". That fits the charge at home model.

 

[grim]

Let's say I have 5 forced air heaters in my house, each 1500W that cycle on and off throughout the day at random intervals to maintain the temperature. Now I added a EV to the mix, also pulling exactly the same wattage (and can be set up to mimic the heaters if desired). Now instead of heaters it could be any 1500W device that tends to stay on. They have no clue and they are not going to charge you based off profiling.

They are going to hunt you down. So as not to bury the lede do some research on non-intrusive EV load disaggregation.

Lets make sure we are all speaking the same language here. What is the ultimate goal of electrification of the automotive sectors? Its not the current 1%, nor ten times as much at 10%. Its the complete elimination of fossil fuels carbon generation. Its 100 times as much AND the elimination of the source, such as natural gas, coal, and oil for electric generation. IOW at the SOURCE, and at the USER level. Like it or nor, this industry is still in its infancy, I said early adoption, more likely innovations is correct. Its immature, a child. What do you need to achieve these goals? They don't talk much about it, do they.

As one of the references above mentioned, your kidding yourself if you think electric rates are going to stay the same as today as electric companies KNOW what the market will bear, and that market price is whatever the cost of gasoline. Forget about the EU and their "laws", read the actual California EO on "banning" ICE by 2035

https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-Climate.pdf

It bans nothing. A "goal" is 100% no ICE sales by 2035. Thats it. Now how do you take this "first" step to get to the ultimate goal? Some research into this "evolution" I read shows its the GREATEST change since central A/C hit the mainstream. Central Air is NOTHING compared to 50 AMP car chargers. AC pulls less power and really isn't need or used in the snow belt, nowhere near as much as the south. But 100% car charging would be done in every state, ALL THE TIME. Yes, I know you can charge on a 15 amp 120V but realistic, the GREAT Masses will not tolerate it. Maybe you do but not the rest of society that lives with instant gratification. People throw fits when their Amazon package is a day late.

I mentioned my utility bills, to the HOUR, usage. From that it shows patterns. They estimate and profile. It says estimates. This goes back to the days pre-smartmeters. Meter reader had to access the meter. Some meters were in basements. So they "estimated" based on previous usage. Today, they know the patterns of MILLIONS of users. They know exactly what is going on. Big Data is very important and AI is taking over. ... continued.

 

[grim]

I came across this, which is your question



You have to read the comments but the two most important ones are from an EE and a director of machine learning of a utility company. From the EE, ALL electric devices have signatures. They KNOW the signatures. Just imagine a big data base in the sky where every device has certain characteristics, it's signature. The Machine Learning director, yeah, but its not there yet, not mature. Written a year ago. Why do this? Load balancing. We all know electric is on demand. Thats why wind and solar sucks compared to hydro or fission. But basically an unlimited source, all the time, unlike for hydro or if splitting atoms. Now read

Electricity Monthly Update - Energy Information Administration

www.eia.gov

The smart meters are two way. My utility company offers incentives to shut your AC down in the summer during peak loads. Thats a VERY bad idea around here. Its the humidity, not the temp, but that is how pitiful the grid really is. Do you want a monopoly, electric, to control your devices in the house? The grid cannot handle things NOW, never mind adding a 100 X as much load for all EVs, that's just nuts. Not going to happen. We know it, they know it, everyone knows it. So? What to do? My house didn't even have a circuit for a Microwave. They NEED to expand everything. But DATA is everything.

But that's not good enough, along comes this guy, 2016, there's an App for that

Sense - Control your home energy use

Sense's consumer app makes homes smarter, empowering people to make better use of their energy, lower electricity bills, and reduce their carbon footprint.

sense.com

For a mere $300, your smart phone can tell you exactly what devices take your electricity. This is on the consumer. Not buying it. I don't need no app to tell me my bill goes up when the hot water goes on. Like duh. Some verbiage

Find Out Which Appliance Is Sucking All Your Power

Sense’s $299 gadget identifies individual devices in the home and exactly how much electricity they are using.

www.technologyreview.com

But that's doesn't help the power company. Read The Determination of Load Profiles and Power Consumptions of Home Appliances This is some really scary stuff in here. They can know when you opened your refrigerator door!!!! Thats freaky. They know EVERYTHING, but that's still not good enough, cause it needs sensors.

Enter ... "Non-intrusive Electric-vehicle Load Disaggregation Algorithm for a Data-driven EV Integration Strategy"

Request Rejected

Gotta love these names. Yes, they are hunting down EXACTLY what EV chargers are doing by reading the smart meter usage. and

Request Rejected

You gotta love modern technology. Of course they can find your charger. So is this being used? Oh yeah, its coming. Lets take a look see at CO, their pilot program. You have to love their names too. Disaggregation? What a great name for "ripping apart your smart meter usage and determining who is using an EV charger!"

Electric Vehicle Load Detection and Disaggregation Pilot

And you think you are going to hide your L1 charging? 😂 Guess again. Quote:

"Detecting the EV level of charging speed – i.e. – level 1 (L1), level 2 (L2), possibly level 3 (L3) charging speeds"

More interesting, here is one of the comments, from a company complaining, HEY, USE MY SOFTWARE! 😃

https://www.dora.state.co.us/pls/efi/efi_p2_v2_demo.show_document?p_dms_document_id=975860

Sure enough, there are companies that already do this like Sagewell

EVFinder Advanced AI and Machine Learning

I bet you thought I was joking about hunting down your EV. Nope. Gotta love their name EVFINDER 😅 There are others like Bidgely AI-Powered EV Detection and Estimation Helps Utilities Realize the Promise of the EV Revolution These are not sold, AFAIK, to consumers but are B2B so chances are you will never hear of them. Technology moves faster and faster, a few papers on this

AUTOMATED DETECTION OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES IN HOURLY SMART METER DATA

A Deep Generative Model for Non-Intrusive Identification of EV Charging Profiles

Just like the hardware in EVs is in its infancy, the ability to determine if your EV is charging via AFI meters is also in its infancy, but its necessary to load management. Its coming, and they WILL know exactly how you are charging, how much, and how long. There will be a data base of electronic signatures. And once they got that data, what's next? 🙂 its all about supply and demand. If there were 100% penetration of the vehicle market, all ICE gone, all fossil usage gone, you must know they will get what the market will bear. They will hunt down and track your charging because its takes up too much of the available bandwidth.

See they aren't going to cut off your heat in the winter, but they can certainly increase your rates for charging a car.

They are telling you that the technology exists NOW, its in the innovative state, they EXPECT to use it in the future. Pay attention, they are telling you 😀

You will not be "hiding" your EV charging among other electric devices.

 

[ericsan13]

You will not be "hiding" your EV charging among other electric devices.

Why not? If you can hide speeding with radar detector blockers, internet piracy with VPN, internet transactions via crypto black market, it's just a matter of time before they come up with ways to hide EV charging. Technology will find a way.