I suppose everyone has their own opinions on it’s looks whether they like or dislike it but one thing is for sure, ask anyone on the street that knows Porsche and one look at the new one they will instantly know it’s the Macan so the basic DNA is present if a little different from the old one.

I heard a lot of people pointing at the headlight design whether it’s the fact they have split is the problem but the top part which is what we all notice have the same theme running through it from the Taycan, 911, Cayenne and Panamera so if anything this new one is more in line current Porsche design.

The rear is another area, its design especially below the bumper is a departure but again similar to the other EV in the range so I see why Porsche did it.

The front and rear ends look distinctly Tesla . . . and like most every other EV design.

Not sure why aerodynamic efficiency would change from ICE to EV? . . . did Porsche engineers just figure out aerodynamic efficiency, or did they ignore some of the details in the name of aesthetics ICE vehicles (form over function)?

We could discuss Porsche trying to squeeze as much juice as possible from the efficiency fruit, attempting to improve range that seems to be a priority with these environmental catastrophes being produced. However, it does not change my view that the Macan EV design architecture took two steps backward.

Ultimately, of course, aesthetics is subjective . . . if Porsche wants to gauge consumer opinion, they could certainly gain some insight from Macan enthusiasts on this forum via a poll inquiring whether the EV design a step forward or backward from ICE design?

However, as bad as it is, design architecture is the least of Porsche’s issues when it comes to their being complicit in a nefarious agenda.

AVM

 

The front and rear ends look distinctly Tesla . . . and like most every other EV design.

Not sure why aerodynamic efficiency would change from ICE to EV? . . . did Porsche engineers just figure out aerodynamic efficiency, or did they ignore some of the details in the name of aesthetics ICE vehicles (form over function)?

We could discuss Porsche trying to squeeze as much juice as possible from the efficiency fruit, attempting to improve range that seems to be a priority with these environmental catastrophes being produced. However, it does not change my view that the Macan EV design architecture took two steps backward.

Ultimately, of course, aesthetics is subjective . . . if Porsche wants to gauge consumer opinion, they could certainly gain some insight from Macan enthusiasts on this forum via a poll inquiring whether the EV design a step forward or backward from ICE design?

However, as bad as it is, design architecture is the least of Porsche’s issues when it comes to their being complicit in a nefarious agenda.

AVM

To answer the aerodynamics would drive things way off topic further but let’s say it’s more important with an EV than an ICE car for the obvious reasons. 😉

Places like this are a micro category of people who actually buy Macans and in general enthusiasts are very single minded hence why the word enthusiast.

 

To answer the aerodynamics would drive things way off topic further but let’s say it’s more important with an EV than an ICE car for the obvious reasons. 😉

Places like this are a micro category of people who actually buy Macans and in general enthusiasts are very single minded hence why the word enthusiast.

1. Why would it be off topic to discuss Macan aerodynamics in a thread about the Macan EV?

2. Why are aerodynamics any more important with the EV than ICE Macan? Not so ‘obvious’ to me.

3. Do enthusiasts enjoy design architecture any less than ‘non-enthusiasts?’ It seems to me design architecture is just as important to the non-enthusiast as the enthusiast, if not more.

AVM

 

2. Why are aerodynamics any more important with the EV than ICE Macan? Not so ‘obvious’ to me.

Probably the same reason the rear wiper is an option and not standard and why the wheels look so different than ICE. Read about the EV tires and why you don't want ICE tires,

Article Mistakes to Avoid When Shopping for New EV Tires

Discover the latest electric vehicle (EV) tires from Michelin. Shop now and experience the ultimate in torque and performance.

www.michelinman.com

They need ALL the help they can get to increase range. Its not just the cold that's the killer but pushing the heavy vehicle through the air.

The CD is .25 New electric Porsche Macan officially revealed: SUV bestseller takes the EV plunge
CD of a macan is .35 https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/...acan-qsxxy3h9/03-downloads/03-02-specifications/03-02-Macan/PAG_Macan_TD_EN.pdf

CD Matters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

Taycan .22
Tesla .23

SUVs are bricks moving through the air = bad.

Frontal area is a big deal too.

Gas cars are easy, just make a bigger gas tank.

 

There can't possibly be any benefit in a low seating position in an EV from a dynamics perspective. All the weight is in the batteries, which are mounted as low as possible. The seat could be 10' off the ground and it wouldn't handle any differently. And low seating definitely isn't something Jane Boxwine is looking for in her next mom bus.

That's an own goal by Porsche IMO.

 

There can't possibly be any benefit in a low seating position in an EV from a dynamics perspective. All the weight is in the batteries, which are mounted as low as possible. The seat could be 10' off the ground and it wouldn't handle any differently. And low seating definitely isn't something Jane Boxwine is looking for in her next mom bus.

That's an own goal by Porsche IMO.

For ALL the downsides expressed with the Macan EV, I find the interior design to be perfectly fine according to photos available.

Why is Porsche promoting the fact that the front seats are roughly 3.3cm (1.5in) lower and the rear roughly 0.5in lower?

I do not think it was an objective on their part, nor construed as any form of advantage in terms driving enthusiasm (e.g., as with the 718 sport car chassis). It is not simply that the 718 sits lower to the ground than an SUV, but you also sit really low relative to the floor in the cabin.

Is the lower seating position simply a consequence of what the EV design offers over ICE? Not sure, but if it were simply a matter of making seats sit lower, then Porsche would have designed lower sitting seat long ago.

Instead, I SUSPECT everything is lower. For example, no engine to put under the hood, so hood height is lower and, as consequence, the front dash is lower . . . and the driver does not need to be seated as high to see over the dash and hood.

Full disclaimer, I have not taken the time to confirm everything is lower, so please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect. Also, I am ASSUMING Porsche means you sit lower within the cabin, not simply lower to the ground (the two are not mutually inclusive, although I suspect both are true with respect to comparable ICE Macan model).

Whatever the case, it seems Porsche is taking a consequence and trying to use it as an advantageous selling point.

So, are there any real-world advantages? I can think of two . . .

1. If you are tall, then I am assuming a lower seating position correlates with more headroom? Given we are talking about an SUV where the ICE Macan offered plenty of headroom, one would have to be REALLY TALL to take advantage of having more headroom.

2. Ergonomically, being seated lower would translate into allowing your legs to be more extended, which I believe is a reasonable advantage to promote.

AVM

 

I watched Nick Murray's video. Its been awhile as I dont agree with him a lot. There are few things that stood out.

1) He brought up the massive deprecation of the Taycan Turbo S (guys lost 80 -100K in one year) and feels that the larger sedan has fallen out of favor . He feels the Macan has less room to tank at 125K USD vs 250K (Taycan ) . In my opinion a tank is a tank . There is no way this thing will hold value !!

2) He brought up how his current 4 year old car cost 80K and this is quite a jump . Brushes it off as Porsche being Porsche . I would agree if this were comparing ICE to ICE or EV to EV . The comparison to each other I feel is a false premise .

3) He says that he wants to drive one first and isn't in a rush . For his needs wit short city trips and a transition to solar he thinks this can work . I dont know . I talk to a lot of guys who buy things like a new roof for the house (50K ) or remodel the kitchen and I say NO WAY !! That junk will outlive me . My next door neighbors died (Covid ) . Finally after three years the kids sold the house that the parents had completely renovated before they died (never got to enjoy) . New buyer has gutted the house !!! He's old too !! I want things that can make instant memories !!! Thats what my 911 does !!! Thats what two 911's do !! Let my kitchen rot . As long as the stove works I am all good !!

4) He wont buy an EV sport car . It sounds like he thought this out .

 

I watched Nick Murray's video. Its been awhile as I dont agree with him a lot. There are few things that stood out.

1) He brought up the massive deprecation of the Taycan Turbo S (guys lost 80 -100K in one year) and feels that the larger sedan has fallen out of favor . He feels the Macan has less room to tank at 125K USD vs 250K (Taycan ) . In my opinion a tank is a tank . There is no way this thing will hold value !!

2) He brought up how his current 4 year old car cost 80K and this is quite a jump . Brushes it off as Porsche being Porsche . I would agree if this were comparing ICE to ICE or EV to EV . The comparison to each other I feel is a false premise .

3) He says that he wants to drive one first and isn't in a rush . For his needs wit short city trips and a transition to solar he thinks this can work . I dont know . I talk to a lot of guys who buy things like a new roof for the house (50K ) or remodel the kitchen and I say NO WAY !! That junk will outlive me . My next door neighbors died (Covid ) . Finally after three years the kids sold the house that the parents had completely renovated before they died (never got to enjoy) . New buyer has gutted the house !!! He's old too !! I want things that can make instant memories !!! Thats what my 911 does !!! Thats what two 911's do !! Let my kitchen rot . As long as the stove works I am all good !!

4) He wont buy an EV sport car . It sounds like he thought this out .

There are lots of people that are the least likely to buy an EV ever, and we know who they are.
All good. The world needs variety.
It’s rather amusing following these interesting discussions.

 

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

 

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

Suits me perfectly. After an 8 year stint with Macan EV Turbo, I will be able to write it off and move in with a new Macan ICE Turbo fuelled by the synthetic petrol. The price for the synthetic fuel will be at an acceptable level by then. It will be what the doctor Larry ordered.

 

I told my wife that I was really bummed out today. I told her that I’ve been reading this forum and it was EV and EV that and I feel like it’s slipping through my fingers. She listened. I went on to say that some people are just running blind into the fire because I think they want to prove something to themselves .

She met me back in 2005. This is the first time in all those years. Did I ever said anything worrisome about Porsche to her.

Remember the launch back in 2014 ? Things like PDK made it to a turbo engine had already been proven, and this was going into the first SUV by Porsche. We felt like pioneers this is different. It’s very different.

Only the rocks live forever

@grim .. have you seen this ? I knew some of it but had not thought it made it this far .

Saw the headline, assumed it was clickbait, will watch tomorrow

 

Only the rocks live forever




Saw the headline, assumed it was clickbait, will watch tomorrow

Everything YouTube is Clickbait. They did show some of the areas of progress in the alternative fuels. They also discussed that Porsches main goal is geared towards the 911. You’ll see it tomorrow.

 

I've discussed the cost of upgrading AMP service to houses. I look at things holistically. What's the end game? The end game is ALL cars EVs. So worrying about a single car, IMO, is short sighted. I see few to no houses with one car. Most have two, many have 4. Its easy with two teenagers to have 4 cars. Some have 5. How are all those cars going to plug in?

I think 200 AMPs is short sighted. ALL these houses were NEVER intended to run the load required for EVs. NOT planning for the future is a waste of investments. This is why this is all in the innovative stage, not even the early adopting stage.

This channel is pretty good, not clickbait, 2.21M Subscribers. He explains what I would call a kluge, a way to innovate with what you got. The explanation is good. The answer is not. IOW, his explanation is GOOD. The answer, imo, sucks. To not bury the lede, if you dont got 200 AMP service, he's talking about smart panels like this one. New company, innovative, monitor the power and adjust accordingly. 5 degrees out? Keep the giant toasters working. 30 degrees out? Let the car charge. Makes sense, but a kluge, a workaround, and NOT the real answer, imo. $3500 for the panel $750 for the charger, plus LABOR and Permits. This looks like $7K easy. I dont view such a thing reasonable when the game plan is ALL cars being EVs. Just upgrade to 400 AMPs and be done with it.

But this guy explains things well

SPAN® Panel | Your intelligent command center for smarter homes.

 

The EV load is similar to an electric over or clothes dryer (or baseboard heaters for those of us who live in cold climates). Like the flawed so called studies that claimed that hybrids were worse than pure ICE cars, they make subtle assumptions to tilt the results to support their pre-set results.

EVs are not plugged in drawing current every moment of the day when not driving, Personally, I plug in my car about once every 10 days in summer and once a week in winter, So that's 12hrs a week at worst. The rest of the time, the charger is idle. Thats the case for most drivers (ICE cars don't fill up every day. Most houses that have HVAC and/or a clothes dryer can manage an EV. As new houses get built and older ones have their electrics updated, they can easily be updated to accommodate a couple of chargers for the rare people who ned rot charge 2 cars at the same time.

The world is not static, things evolve. New problems that come up when new things are tried get solved.

 

IMO, this is NOT clickbait, CNBC, financial channel on why EVs aren't selling. Even Tesla admits its all too new.

And this is Scotty, who dislikes Porsches (I think) and overpriced German cars. He is prolific and a mechanic. He makes a point. While charging at home is regulated, that is, they make profits from investments, not from the production of electricity, that's not true for those charging stations and they can charge what the market will bear. So while the headline might sound like clickbait, the data is probably true. In the end, its always supply and demand.

A secondary part of this is "how big are the pipes". I had cable internet speed, a Mb, when the rest of the world was listening to the bells and whistles of 28.8K modems. It was GREAT, on day one. The internet FLEW. And then, one day, the entire neighborhood got wired and suddenly the speeds went ⬇Come evening, everyone home from work and turn on their computer, speed were terrible. The same thing is happening here. The bandwidth isn't there. So despite outrageous charges for the electrons, whatever the market will bear, the more cars charging in one location, the slower the speeds.

Get by his style, listen to the words.

 

IMO, this is NOT clickbait, CNBC, financial channel on why EVs aren't selling. Even Tesla admits its all too new.

And this is Scotty, who dislikes Porsches (I think) and overpriced German cars. He is prolific and a mechanic. He makes a point. While charging at home is regulated, that is, they make profits from investments, not from the production of electricity, that's not true for those charging stations and they can charge what the market will bear. So while the headline might sound like clickbait, the data is probably true. In the end, its always supply and demand.

A secondary part of this is "how big are the pipes". I had cable internet speed, a Mb, when the rest of the world was listening to the bells and whistles of 28.8K modems. It was GREAT, on day one. The internet FLEW. And then, one day, the entire neighborhood got wired and suddenly the speeds went ⬇Come evening, everyone home from work and turn on their computer, speed were terrible. The same thing is happening here. The bandwidth isn't there. So despite outrageous charges for the electrons, whatever the market will bear, the more cars charging in one location, the slower the speeds.

Get by his style, listen to the words.

Great video . He needs to breath a little .

I had never considered. the cost being higher to charge . I had been under the impression it was cheaper .

 

Really? Why would human even need Macan EV or future EV in general when there is Neom The Line in the work for future!

 

@grim I appreciate the research and time you put into this. I’ve been so resistant towards the car in general that I’m learning as I go now that it seems to becoming a real event.

I’m still in the phase where I have a new Macon and the new 911. I figured the Macan might squeeze out one more car from me even without any changes if they keep it long enough. If not, then it will be a cayenne V8. After that I would have to look towards other auto manufacturers. In the end, I would be saving money. I never imagined my later years might be driving a Corvette aura my wife would be driving a CRV but for once I might get a chance to save some money.

 

@yrralis1

The inmates will not be running the asylum much longer . . .

AVM

 

Some houses that are still standing were built before running water and electricity, yet by the grace of god, they managed to kludge something together.

And those houses, with no electric, or 30 amp fuses or 60 amp, were renovated and current ones can be renovated, I wrote:

or renovating for big money, … Early adopters have a passion for their beliefs and are willing to work around the problems to achieve their goals. The price matters little. The mainstream will not.

For an end game solution, that is all 280,000,000 registered US vehicles to be converted, its going to cost far more money than the pittance being spent now, both for residential housing and the grid. Good luck getting millions of houses upgraded when people struggle in their daily lives and the average car on US roads is now 12 years, meaning millions of 15 or 20 year old cars. Making this much worse is the trend to underground utilities and the price skyrockets because of trenching coupled with skyrocketing copper costs.

Exactly! Europe will be the first guinea pig because they’re implementing this seemingly overnight. I have no idea what their infrastructure can handle. I look at a place like Texas that could not even handle a cold snap a few years ago.

Somebody needs to buy the LaserDiscs

 

And those houses, with no electric, or 30 amp fuses or 60 amp, were renovated and current ones can be renovated, I wrote:

or renovating for big money, … Early adopters have a passion for their beliefs and are willing to work around the problems to achieve their goals. The price matters little. The mainstream will not.

For an end game solution, that is all 280,000,000 registered US vehicles to be converted, its going to cost far more money than the pittance being spent now, both for residential housing and the grid. Good luck getting millions of houses upgraded when people struggle in their daily lives and the average car on US roads is now 12 years, meaning millions of 15 or 20 year old cars. Making this much worse is the trend to underground utilities and the price skyrockets because of trenching coupled with skyrocketing copper costs.



Somebody needs to buy the LaserDiscs

That’s why god created early adopters. The law of diffusion of innovation shows that once a new product hits 17-20% market penetration, they hit a tipping point and its adoption accelerates. We are getting near that point.

yes there are problems and they will be solved. There is no rocket science left to deal with and it is just the task of transition which we’ve done many times throughout history. Things always start expensive those early adopters (who care less about cost and more about being first) pay for this process and the economies of scale kick in for the masses. This is a tried and true path and it is funny how every single time it seems like a new thing to so many. If you prefer an ICE car, no worries, they will be around to buy for another decade or so and by then, the grid will have stabilized and there will be an EV that once you drive, you will wonder how you waited this long. It is the way of things.

 

I’m not throwing in the towel just yet. This EV phase may not be here to stay.

 

I’m not throwing in be towel just yet. This EV phase may not be here to stay.

Yep, a LOT of garbage is about to be tossed to the curb . . .

AVM

 

I never imagined my later years might be driving a Corvette aura my wife would be driving a CRV but for once I might get a chance to save some money.

Let my kitchen rot . As long as the stove works I am all good !!

And just think, now you can get a new oven!

 

There is a direct correlation between 'opinions' being expressed and new accounts formed in this forum. . . coincidence???

AVM

 

You're probably pulling in a lot of EV buyers like me who are reading some of these messages and rolling our eyes. I and others are sharing real world experience and data but believe what you want to believe. Only time will tell, but I would say most of the early adopters today are on the winning side of the equation, e.g., no more wasting time at gas stations, charging at a sixth of the price of gas at home, crazy acceleration, low center of gravity, more room, and of course multiple forms of 'cost'.

Everyone's situation is different like if you have an older home and don't want to work around charging, it prob won't work for you for some time. And that is okay. I'm looking to pick up a second EV (Macan EV) because it's a logical choice to reap the benefits. It is a logical and not an emotional purchase. I am no EV enthusiast or tree hugger or one to waste money. My wife barely drives her ICE Macan because the PDK shifting, acceleration lag, and having to get gas make it feel ancient. Does not mean it is a bad car though!

 

Yeah, the Macan EV was revealed a week ago and I think a lot of EV people were eagerly awaiting this, hence the surge here I think. My current Jag (I-Pace EV) hits 5 this summer (back then I was looking at the Cayenne hybrid), so I am looking around and thought the Macan EV forum would be a good place to start. Did not stop to think that the EV revolution was going to be so controversially received here. I realize that from the ICE Porsche perspective, this may be heresy (lots of Macan ICE owners seem to be coming the EV-specific forum to simply dump on the EV), but the Macan (compared to other EVs) offers faster charging, longer range and a better driver experience (not all of us want an iPad hot-melt glued to the dash) than anything else.

 

Did not stop to think that the EV revolution was going to be so controversially received here. I realize that from the ICE Porsche perspective, this may be heresy

Its going to be an effort because the company’s heritage is racing. Its no different than when they started building the 4 door cars that was also heresy to many sports car owners. Yet here we are. This tends to be an enthusiasts forum where many view the SUV as a sports sedan, and not a utility vehicle, and for some its a DD also owning one of the sports cars too. There is bound to be pushback but all is welcome.

Its just “new”. Dont let the pushback dissuade you, nobody knows how it will turn out.

 

I guess someone was thinking, push the product and then we'll see if it can be supported.

Summer Has Long Stressed Electric Grids. Now Winter Does, Too. - The New York Timeswww.ny


"For years after the 2008 financial crisis, annual electricity demand was essentially flat. The Obama administration promoted energy efficiency .... and consumers used less electricity to save money."

"But that trend has reversed in recent years as businesses have built hundreds of large data centers, each of which can use as much power as a small city, and as individuals have bought more electric cars and appliances. A major contributor in the winter is the increasing use of electricity to power heaters at homes and businesses that previously used oil or gas furnaces."

"U.S. grids are also struggling because they are importing less power during the winter from Canada."

"Aging and poorly maintained U.S. power lines and utility equipment are another major problem ....."

"growing demand for electricity would require upgrades and additions to the grid to keep the lights on, including continued use of some fossil fuels."

 

I guess someone was thinking, push the product and then we'll see if it can be supported.

Summer Has Long Stressed Electric Grids. Now Winter Does, Too. - The New York Timeswww.ny


"For years after the 2008 financial crisis, annual electricity demand was essentially flat. The Obama administration promoted energy efficiency .... and consumers used less electricity to save money."

"But that trend has reversed in recent years as businesses have built hundreds of large data centers, each of which can use as much power as a small city, and as individuals have bought more electric cars and appliances. A major contributor in the winter is the increasing use of electricity to power heaters at homes and businesses that previously used oil or gas furnaces."

"U.S. grids are also struggling because they are importing less power during the winter from Canada."

"Aging and poorly maintained U.S. power lines and utility equipment are another major problem ....."

"growing demand for electricity would require upgrades and additions to the grid to keep the lights on, including continued use of some fossil fuels."

I agree with you on the electric grids . We saw how bad Texas was impacted a few years ago by a cold weather snap. We saw California face rolling blackouts in a heat wave . The biggest obstacle in my state Florida is hurricane season but the heat of last summer put a huge strain . Right now EV cars are a small segment but if the intent is growth then it will take upgrades . Older homes will also likely need upgrades too .

The new Macan weights almost 1000 pounds more than the ICE car . Porsche tried to evenly distribute the weight but there is no way to hide it . It wil burn electricity to move this monster . Every review and article talks of the 3.1 sec 0-60 time but none none call this car more nimble . In fact thats all they talked about with the Macan T .

There are a lot of reality checks coming with a change like this . Porsche was very wise not to pull ICE Macan yet from North America and it seems like post launch they are trying to rely on Brexit to keep it longer in the UK . They know they stepped in poop but the EV cheerleaders are trying to say it smells like a rose.

 

Let me make this PERFECTLY clear.

EVERYONE who contemplates, owns, or just wants to discuss, ANY Macan is more than welcome. And I will refer directly to our Community Standards. Rule 1

We expect our members to treat each other respectfully on MacanForum.com. Although ideas and opinions may be challenged, name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.

If anyone feels ANY of the standards have been violated, click on the three buttons on every post and report it and the reason why. @oqjnLu@>@W or myself will respond. Do not expect either of us to read every post in every thread. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.

As to pushback from the ICE vs EV segments, what did you expect to happen? If the end game comes true, a world of electric vehicles, did you expect the longtime Porsche faithful to embrace the new technology with smiling faces when they see THEIR world crumble before them? All you've got to do is understand the history of the marque. It came about because the founder built the car of his dreams. People bought them, drove them during the week, and raced them on weekends. The company went on to DOMINATE endurance racing. Its foundation is based on world class racing. To this day they still back race teams and build race cars. It's what they do. And the people who buy these cars have a passion and loyalty that you can see from the posts themselves, and this isn't even a sports car forum. If the vehicle is an appliance to you, then it doesn't matter. It's just an expensive washing machine. But if it's something more, something where you visit your garage to just polish or see your car, if it's what you dreamed about owning all your life or buy one after another, what did you expect to happen?

Some 911 purists laughed at the lower priced cars like the 914/924/944 and successors. And then the Cayenne and Macan were built and they were not viewed kindly by some sports car buyers. And yet, here we are, some owners owning BOTH the sports cars and 4 door cars. Things change, whether it be from air cooled to water cooled, or two door to 4 door, even rear engined to mid-engined. Suddenly the race cars are "mid-engined". Imagine that.

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

There inevitably will be discussion on electric grids, resources, expenses, the advantages or disadvantages of EVs, aesthetics, hidden costs like insurance, the abuse the pavement takes if everyone drives heavier vehicles, new technologies, and old technologies. So be it. Its why forums exists, to discuss, and to help each other. To come together to discuss common interests. This is just the beginning. NOBODY has one of these cars yet. NOBODY know the complaints or the good things. Nobody knows the problems that will come with the first year cars. Nobody knows anything. It's all speculation.

Feel free to argue away, but please do not personally attack each other. Follow our community standards. Sometimes it's best to see BOTH sides. Personally, like I said before, I can see the point of a small electric around town runabout. But no way do I intend to pay the sunk costs with trenching, year long waits for the utility company, the cost of copper rising, labor rates for electricians.

It is what it is. In the US, the public and the market will decide. Elsewhere, that's up to wherever you live. Be happy. Your money, buy whatever you want. Feel good in your own decisions. You don't need to rationalize your acquisitions by getting anyone else opinions. You paid for it. They did not.

Please be nice to each other.

thank you

 

However, this is much different than mere vehicle design. It's a revolution in drivetrain technology that forces society to change. It forces owners to WAIT to refuel, yet we live in a society of instant gratification. NOBODY waits for anything. I've expressed my frustration in that the cost to upgrade for home charging, IMO, is simply not worth ROI. I suspect I am far from being alone. NOTHING is free. Everything has a cost.

I know you are using NOBODY as an exaggeration, but let me offer a counter-perspective on this.

First, luxury car owners (hopefully) have a lot of investments. They are accustomed to the idea of waiting for a ROI. It's the same reason Temu 2+ week shipping can still coexist with Amazon 2-day Prime shipping. The trade-off has to be worth it, and it depends on your personal situation.

Second, I see that ICE vehicles are the ones waiting to refuel. They are captive at the pump, plus the time needed to drive there. One of the greatest benefits of an EV is that you can leave home with 80-100% of an equivalent tank of gas every day. Would you worry about range if you left the house with 240-300 miles of range every day? Yes, 'NOTHING is free' and everything has a cost, but that includes time getting gas too.

While I was semi-banned these past couple days, I did some math based on my driving history which I tracked on my road-trip car hybrid SUV (19,920 miles, 804 gallons, averaging 24.8MPG) pre-covid. In the three years between 2018 to 2020, I filled my tank 81 times. Let's say 10 minutes per trip, for a total of 13.5 hours. Note that if it were the Macan I'd be making a lot more trips to the pump.

Since all those fill-ups would've been unnecessary with an EV, I'll focus on the time spent on the 8 road-trips I did during that period. I calculate I would've had to make 8 charging stops outside of the house. Let's say that I did the full Macan EV charge of 10-80% in 33 minutes at fast charging stations each time and completely ignored destination chargers. That's 4.4 hours of charging outside the home.

~13.5 hours at the gas station or ~4.4 hours at the charging station. Hope that helps put time in perspective.

19,920 miles costed $2,379.14. At the lower end of the Macan WLTP energy consumption estimates, that's 5738 kWh consumed or $775 charging at home. Not as significant to me as the time spent, but the more you drive, the larger the time/cost difference will be.

 

That's an interesting calculation. I think to make the comparison more complete, one would need to factor in the cost difference of each type of vehicle, and also consider the cost of insurance and maintenance of each type and the amount spent to purchase and install home charging equipment. Also, and this one would be difficult to calculate is to what degree the average cost per mile of each type changes over time. EVs apparently become less efficient over time, more so than ice. Again, it's an interesting comparison simply from a financial perspective, and putting aside all of the intangible factors which will obviously differ for each person.

 

That's an interesting calculation. I think to make the comparison more complete, one would need to factor in the cost difference of each type of vehicle, and also consider the cost of insurance and maintenance of each type and the amount spent to purchase and install home charging equipment. Also, and this one would be difficult to calculate is to what degree the average cost per mile of each type changes over time. EVs apparently become less efficient over time, more so than ice. Again, it's an interesting comparison simply from a financial perspective, and putting aside all of the intangible factors which will obviously differ for each person.

Glad you enjoyed my analysis. I was primarily showing how time can be saved with EV and cost was a lower concern. More important to me is the actual product I am paying for. Is it a better car or not?

If you want to check out a full cost calculation, this was the closest thing I could find:

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

Of course, even this analysis is flawed because it's not like a F150 and F150 Lightning are directly comparable. The EV version will give you a frunk, larger touchscreen, is faster, has a lower center of gravity, etc. Hard to factor in these intangibles.

 

This seems relevant . . . by 'Ionna' they mean; 'I own ya.'

AVM

https://www.autonews.com/mobility-report/ev-charging-network-ionna-taps-ev-connect-exec-seth-cutler-ceo?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20240209&utm_content=hero-headline

 

OK, climate change is controversal and violates rule 8. Please dont go there again. No one is going to convince anyone else of anything. The policy is zero tolerance. First and last warning. A couple of posts removed and a couple of members need to cool down for a few hours.

Otherwise, carry on and please be nice to each other

grim

 

The heart of any ice performance car is and has always been its engine. With its hundreds of parts, performance car owners, if they wished and developed the skills, could tinker with it to make it run better. Auto makers of performance cars made changes to the design of the engine and its internal parts to make the cars run better. I remember when one of the car magazines ran quarter mile runs between a Dodge Viper and a 911. Neither car was designed for quarter mile runs, but each was wickedly fast. Amazingly, the six cylinder 911 beat the ten cylinder Viper, each time. Porsche seemed to have some magical engineering infused into the drivetrain. If things go the way some people think, all of that will be gone, at least for me. I can’t get too excited over a battery pack. It will be very hard for Porsche to differentiate itself and to get car owners excited the way they did before. I’m glad the electric motor in my refrigerator keeps my food cold but I can’t get excited over it.

 

I’m glad the electric motor in my refrigerator keeps my food cold but I can’t get excited over it.

Shadetree mechanics abound in every car enthusiasts forum and have since, well since combustion engines were invented.

I never thought about this POV before but the motors? Maybe Mr Appliance can fix them? Im not trying humor here, I really dont know. Who are the mechanics? EE degrees? Never thought of this before.

Can modders mod them? Is the hobby dead?

Can SEMA and the aftermarket make them faster? Will EVs kill the aftermarket industry or will some EEs make the cars quicker than the carmakers?

 

ericsan
your right luxury car owners/enthusiasts lets throw them/us in as well may have investments, may have no debt, may own the world therefore do they care of the running costs let alone pulling in to the gas station to fill up....normally its a nice quick break, get some items, use the toilet, whats the rush or loss of time when in a privileged position business postion or otherwise.

Seems you have the time having been semi banned to summarise your comparisons but does it really matter or make your day any better.
Actually your saved charging time compared to gas fills is on 9.1hrs, couple of games of golf or more time to work.
Seriously sure isn't 2nd world problems.

Sorry you copped a semi ban by the way.

 

Yup, you're right. It's a nice break as long as you're not standing holding pump with people waiting behind you. I don't mind taking a 30 min break in the middle of a road trip. Some might though. But to do it 81 times in 3 years sounds like a lot to me and I don't even drive that often. If it were my Macan being driven that often it would've been 122 times in three years. Good thing it's my wife's short commute car.

I told her about my analysis and she said it's insignificant. I told her the cost difference and she said across 3 years that's also insignificant. She is not wrong!

But what is important to me for whatever reason is that EVs are being painted as time wasters. To me, they are time savers! Everyone is different but let the data speak for itself. Tomorrow I'll leave the house with 60+ miles more range. I can drive like a maniac and not have to worry about eating my tank. Happy Valentines.

 

I think the whole anxiety thing is overblown. When I first got my EV almost 5 years ago, the drive from Montreal to Boston was a bit of a challenge because there were only a few fast chargers on the route. I had one white knuckle moment when I over estimated the range driving the mountains and barely made it to the charger. Today there are multiple charge stops despite New Hampshires slow progress on that front. On major highways, there are more chargers giving you choices as to when to stop, so different conditions can be managed easily (not as easily as gas cars yet, but it is getting better). When I am driving around home, range is meaningless as I can plug in anytime I want. I typically charge every 1-2 weeks.

 

EVs don't become less efficient over time, the batteries lose capacity (but again, that seems to be overblown as I have not noticed this in almost 5 years which is consistent to those in EV forums). Teslas have been around for a long time and we have decades of experience with hybrids and it seems the batteries will live as long as the frame. Like ICE cars, this will not be 100% correct (my buddy with an Audi with the defective engine will attest). Losing capacity does not equate to higher operating costs, You pay less to charge less, so the cost/mile stays the same.

In many cases, the cost of purchase is higher but the cost of operating is lower (electricity is cheaper than gas, no oil changes, fewer brake changes etc...) so you end up roughly equal. Batteries continue to drop in price so for regular (non-luxury cars, where price dominates buying choices which is less the case for luxury cars), the overall cost of ownership will be lower than their gas equivalents (already starting to happen).