And those who think electric rates aint going to cost as much as gas, its just a matter of time.

 

Their infrastructure looks archaic . I haven't seen old wooden posts since 10 years ago . We are cement posts or under ground . My electric bill is double theirs . I have. pool pump running 8 hrs a day and summer heat/humidity Miami is the big league .

I will day this though .. FPL went from a worrisome mediocrity in the 90's to a home run hitter at present . When stuff goes bad they fix it quickly .

 

Tesla batteries seem to be consistently outlasting those estimates though, often by a large margin.

yeah but whose gonna be the sucker to pay the replacement cost of the whole undercarriage battery...when it goes decides to go bye bye...good luck, reselling your car with a battery thats either reached peak degradation, and they say it does around when it reaches 50-65 percent....otherwise they just adding to the problem of scrapyards being full of this EVs that nobody will touch because of that and the abysmal market for used EVs being horrid...its such a lose/lose situation with EVs... especially used expensive ones...

 

After @4ndy posted the article I dug a bit more .
Porsche CFO says Europe may delay its ICE ban

Looks like they are reading the forums !!! Or they are counting the expected orders that did NOT happen .

Brexit might just be the perfect loophole to save Porsche .

 

That article talks about fines for the companies based oil units . They can fight it in court . They can raise the price . Both are possible .
Before its too late .. this is the time to buy .

 

My 2021 GTS is my first Porsche, seriously drawn to the EV, but feel I need one more ICE Porsche before that - hoping they do a 'special' last edition ICE.

 

 

You are only fooling yourself when looking at non-inflation adjusted prices.

Electricity 1978 $0.05c/kWh ($0.20c/kWh in today's currency) and 2022 $0.16c/kWh (20% decrease)
Gasoline 1978 $0.67c/kWh ($4.03/gallon in today's currency) and 2022 $4.09/gallon (1.5% increase)

Gas price inflation, 1970→2025

This calculator uses the official Consumer Price Index for Gas from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Gas costing $3.29 in 1970 would cost $33.07 in 2025.

www.officialdata.org

Electricity price inflation, 1970→2025

This calculator uses the official Consumer Price Index for Electricity from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Electricity costing $100 in 1970 would cost $914.49 in 2025.

www.in2013dollars.com

Even at the higher $0.18c/kWh that's $4.71 to travel 100 miles/26.2kWh in a Model Y. Take a Macan at 19.4MPG and that's $20.6 of gas.

 

Has anyone driven one yet?

I know, right?

 

To be clear: your real world range will be nowhere near 380 if you drive on highways. Those ranges are usually calculated at 55 MPH in near perfect conditions. Travel at real highway speeds and those numbers plummet quickly.

I recently read EV owners in general are experiencing 12% less range than advertise. I believe range is affected by variables including ambient temp and how the car is driven. This is a Porsche and I’d expect better than average. So here again I think we need to hear from owners before making a final judgement. It could be superior engineering by Porsche delivers more than the advertised range?

 

I recently read EV owners in general are experiencing 12% less range than advertise. I believe range is affected by variables including ambient temp and how the car is driven. This is a Porsche and I’d expect better than average. So here again I think we need to hear from owners before making a final judgement. It could be superior engineering by Porsche delivers more than the advertised range?

It's a broader EV issue - testing is not necessarily done in real-world conditions, and even with the great aerodynamics of a Taycan, driving 80 MPH greatly affects range. Porsche has, thus far, been fairly accurate with their range estimates, to their credit.

BTW, the new Taycan looks really, really impressive. Faster, more range, and lighter!

 

Porsche's disclosures about the performance of the EV cars contain disclaimers and "holes" broad enough to drive a truck through, and their warranty does not cover the stated EV stats (i.e., range, HP, etc.), except when the car is brand new at delivery .... they decline once you drive it off the lot.

 

It's a broader EV issue - testing is not necessarily done in real-world conditions, and even with the great aerodynamics of a Taycan, driving 80 MPH greatly affects range. Porsche has, thus far, been fairly accurate with their range estimates, to their credit.

BTW, the new Taycan looks really, really impressive. Faster, more range, and lighter!

EVs almost always get the best range in stop/go city driving where they can take advantage of regenerative braking. Range on the highway is usually much worse. My wife had a Kia EV6 for awhile. Around town, 275-300 miles of range. On the highway at 65-75mph, maybe 225 miles of range.

 

If you care about depreciation, watch this. Taycans are horrendous

But if you got a 981 GT4 or Spyder you are golden 😃

 

The issue with the Taycan is also somewhat caused by Porsche themselves. If you look at their (in my opinion impressive) model upgrading for the Taycan, a new battery and enhanced inverter technology outperforms earlier models significantly as Heise Auto reports. This is not expected to happen with the elaborated 911 ICE models from my perspective...

 

Porsche's disclosures about the performance of the EV cars contain disclaimers and "holes" broad enough to drive a truck through, and their warranty does not cover the stated EV stats (i.e., range, HP, etc.), except when the car is brand new at delivery .... they decline once you drive it off the lot.

I really wouldn't expect kw delivered to the EV motor to change over time. Electrical motors are very predictable over time and have reasonable service life. Batteries, that's a whole different story. And depending on how the battery is used, charged, discharged ,etc will have varying degrees of success for the user.

Such as most people don't know that charging the battery to 100 percent and having your car air for long periods is time in warm weather will literally ruin the battery. We've always been taught, leave your car with a full tankv to avoid moisture absorption. To operate an EV successfully you have to be a bit of an engineer/chemist to be successful in being the end user.

That said, battery tech is changing rapidly. And the difference in 6 years to now is astonishing. We have literally gone from go carts to relatively high performance cars in a decade.

 

I really wouldn't expect kw delivered to the EV motor to change over time. Electrical motors are very predictable over time and have reasonable service life. Batteries, that's a whole different story. And depending on how the battery is used, charged, discharged ,etc will have varying degrees of success for the user.

Such as most people don't know that charging the battery to 100 percent and having your car air for long periods is time in warm weather will literally ruin the battery. We've always been taught, leave your car with a full tankv to avoid moisture absorption. To operate an EV successfully you have to be a bit of an engineer/chemist to be successful in being the end user.

That said, battery tech is changing rapidly. And the difference in 6 years to now is astonishing. We have literally gone from go carts to relatively high performance cars in a decade.

As you say, much depends on how the EV car is maintained and used (factors such as, temperature, how often it's charged and to what level, etc.). Those factors can cause a loss of power and range. This is a non issue for ICE cars. Unless a person literally abuses the ICE car, the engine should have virtually the same performance capabilities over the life of the vehicle. This is another reason why I will not jump yet into the EV phase.

 

Anyone who does not want an EV will easily find 1000 reasons not to get one. Those who like EVs will ignore those reasons and get one and most never regret it. Very few of our decisions are made based on facts and figures but on our emotions (and we look for supporting facts to justify the decision we already made). I've had a Jag I-Pace for almost 5 years (first model year). Most fun car to drive I've ever had. Clear that EVs are the future but it is clear that there are a lot of issue to iron out, but none of them are particularly hard to solve, we just have to get around to solving them. Had ALL the issues the I-Pace has ever had (including the battery recall). Despite the issues, I miss the EV every time I travel and get an ICE rental car (or drive the dealer loaner during the many extended repair times for the I-Pace).

 

As you say, much depends on how the EV car is maintained and used (factors such as, temperature, how often it's charged and to what level, etc.). Those factors can cause a loss of power and range. This is a non issue for ICE cars. Unless a person literally abuses the ICE car, the engine should have virtually the same performance capabilities over the life of the vehicle. This is another reason why I will not jump yet into the EV phase.

I'll politely disagree about that. I get a chance at my job to get cars and motorcycles dynod allot. You would be surprised how much power you have lost from new to say 50k miles.. especially when the engine is not broken in properly. I'll argue almost no new cars are properly broken in due transport and dealer needs. Lots of short engine runs to move the cars around. Not proper heat cycles. When I tear down an engine I almost always see a ring is jammed, cross hatching is gone and don't even get me started on valve seating.

 

Can we all be clear here, EV’s are not for planet savers, ICE is still ahead ecologically, but it’s cool to see fun performance EV’s and supercars!

 

EVs are not planet savers and no one should tout them or think of them as such. If you want to save the world, convince everyone to walk to work and eat salad from their garden lol.

But ICE is definitely not ahead ecologically, check out the fun diagram that breaks it down for you:

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-of-electric-hybrid-and-combustion-engine-vehicles/

TL;DR: A EV produces 71% of total emissions-equivalent vs. an ICE vehicle over a 16yr/240,000km lifetime. This includes everything, including battery manufacturing, tailpipe emissions, raw mineral mining, etc.

 

The world’s top carmaker got mocked for rejecting EV hype—not anymore. ‘I want to congratulate Toyota’ — FORTUNE

Toyota shared a stellar outlook this week thanks to higher sales of hybrid vehicles across all its major markets.

apple.news

 

Maybe true from a commercial and also social (like acclimatisation with an EV, tax advantages) point of view, but hybrids are the "worst from both worlds" from my engineering perspective. Double risk of failure and wear out...maybe a 48V mild hybrid could make sense, but only when it replaces alternator and starter and adds additional peak power for overtaking ...think Stellantis goes for this...

 

Mr Bean has always been a smart man lol….
The man of the cloth also showing the savings are drying up !

EV owners reveal why they are pulling the plug on their green machines — Daily Mail Australia

EXCLUSIVE: EV drivers fumed how their electric vehicles have dropped in value, charging costs have soared and incentives have been scrapped.

apple.news

 

Anyone who does not want an EV will easily find 1000 reasons not to get one. Those who like EVs will ignore those reasons and get one and most never regret it. Very few of our decisions are made based on facts and figures but on our emotions (and we look for supporting facts to justify the decision we already made). I've had a Jag I-Pace for almost 5 years (first model year). Most fun car to drive I've ever had. Clear that EVs are the future but it is clear that there are a lot of issue to iron out, but none of them are particularly hard to solve, we just have to get around to solving them. Had ALL the issues the I-Pace has ever had (including the battery recall). Despite the issues, I miss the EV every time I travel and get an ICE rental car (or drive the dealer loaner during the many extended repair times for the I-Pace).

Regarding facts and figures. Hertz recently announced it is selling 20,000 of its EVs because of higher than expected maintenance costs and lower than expected customer demand. According to a recent study by iseecars.com EVs depreciate faster than any other vehicle segment. You can expect depreciation of 49.1% in 5 years. So they cost more and depreciate faster than ICE vehicles. Ford announced it’s cutting F150 lightening production by 50% due to lack of customer demand. According to the WSJ 12/03/2023, on average EV owners pay $357 a month for car insurance compared to $248 for comparable ICE vehicle. The same article says a ICE crash that cost $4300 to repair would cost $6500 to repair If it were an EV. Goodyear says tires can wear 50% faster on EVs. Michelin says 20% faster. According to a study by Consumer Reports EVs at 79% LESS Reliable than ICE vehicles.

All of the above facts and figures are easily found with a google search.

None of these facts means a person should or should not by an EV but if a person chooses to buy the data suggests you should expect reliability problems, high insurance premium, significant depreciation, and excessive tire wear.

While it’s nice to know your personal experience with EVs, do you have and facts or figures to bring to the discussion that would help a prospectI’ve EV Macan buyer? Personally I take some comfort in Porsche’s history of reliability and resale value. If a person wants to buy a EV would the Porsche brand mitigate some of the EV negatives?

 

. . . . If a person wants to buy a EV would the Porsche brand mitigate some of the EV negatives?

No

 

Gotta get to …. and you see this 🤬

 

Ultimately, consumers will dictate the market, not legislators. . . the consumer is already speaking and the volume will continue to be turned up . . . hard pass on EVs

AVM

Yet the market for new EVs... With the latest and greatest is booking and expanding.

 

That's what [they] want you to believe . . . I would like to say you will figure it out but, given you have not to this point without doing so, seems highly unlikely

AVM

 

Indeed . . .

The Macan design architecture took two major steps backward with the EV front and rear designs . . . not sure anything changed in-between the two ends?

If the new design came with a 2.9L V6 under the hood . . . I still would not want it

AVM

I suppose everyone has their own opinions on it’s looks whether they like or dislike it but one thing is for sure, ask anyone on the street that knows Porsche and one look at the new one they will instantly know it’s the Macan so the basic DNA is present if a little different from the old one.

I heard a lot of people pointing at the headlight design whether it’s the fact they have split is the problem but the top part which is what we all notice have the same theme running through it from the Taycan, 911, Cayenne and Panamera so if anything this new one is more in line current Porsche design.

The rear is another area, its design especially below the bumper is a departure but again similar to the other EV in the range so I see why Porsche did it.