[ericsan13]

A definite bummer and such low temperature clearly show where EVs have their limitations. Where I live we have a much narrower temperature range between the highs and lows through a season, I did a quick check on how much KWs I used during the winter compared to summer and it actually surprised me. 257.6KW during the month of July compared to 299.8KW for the month of January, that’s only an increase of approximately 16% but I was told long ago that keeping the cabin temperature lower I set mine at 19 degree and use the seated seat is more efficient than raising the cabin temperature and no heated seat.

I looked into this a couple months ago and based off the energy usage report generated by EVs, the energy used for heating pales in comparison to the energy used for driving. So when the weather started getting a lot colder, I enjoyed my preheated car (I love this feature) and turned up the heater. It helps that many EVs have heat pumps which is very efficient.

Fortunately most of the world does not live in the -45F temperature zone. It's like if I posted a dyno report for an ICE car at a very high elevation and say ICE cars don't work well at high altitudes.

But even if a 1500W (1.5kW) heater was running continuously in that Tesla, it would pale in comparison to the amount of wattage coming in. L2 charging = ~11kW watts. L3 = ~250kW! It's more likely that the battery was not at the right temp for charging than the usage of the heater.

Extreme temperatures don't help EVs but they certainly don't help ICE either. At -45F ICE cars prob need a block heater. As battery tech advances I am sure they will come up with a solution for cold batteries. At -45F I wouldn't say don't buy an ICE car just because there's a chance your antifreeze and oil will freeze.

 

[grim]

Both quantity and quality matters. If quality data could be produced by insurance companies or otherwise, we'd know the true cost of the fires.

But guessing by my own EV insurance rates, the many articles out there debunking this, and the 83:1 for ICE:EV car fires, I'd be willing to be that ICE cars are on the losing end of the fire argument.

Also big flashy news articles about EV fires are anecdotal and should be taken with a grain of salt. Especially with the Bolt. You could say not to buy any ICE car because Kias are easy to steal. Doesn't make sense. Just don't buy a Bolt...or a Kia.

But Quality is what scares the people today and that is what matters. Their perception is their reality. The sinking of the Felicity Ace was a "big deal"

Now another cargo ship full of lithium batteries caught fire, regardless of the source, the extremes they are going to show the concern.

Dec 29

Cargo Ship with Li-ion Battery Fire Diverted to Alaska by USCG

A general cargo ship making a trans-Pacific crossing is reporting that it is battling cargo hold fires with a load of lithium-ion batteries aboard. T...

maritime-executive.com

and you can follow what the USCG has been saying. It looks like the CO2 was used up, the ship is far from port, a mile exclusion zone around it, and now they filled up the CO2 containers again. You can follow the USCG at

Photo Release: Work continues with M/V Genius Star XI response

JUNEAU, Alaska — M/V Genius Star XI remains stable, anchored in Broad Bay, near Dutch Harbor, Alaska. Response personnel continue to offload CO2 bottles for inspection, refill, and

www.news.uscg.mil

Is the US EV media covering this?

And then you got the toxic gas releases, a Swedish report

Toxic Gases from Electric Vehicle Fires

If I remember right, hydrogen cyanide is like really, really bad as in your dead bad 👎

 

[grim]

A definite bummer and such low temperature clearly show where EVs have their limitations.

Didn't someone mention Norway as a role model? Not so much ... OOPS

Too cold for the batteries: Brand new electric buses paralyzed in Oslo

While everyday life in Norway's capital continues unperturbed, public transport is at a standstill - Oslo's fleet of electric buses can't cope with the cold.

aussiedlerbote.de

 

[Footie]

Didn't someone mention Norway as a role model? Not so much ... OOPS

Too cold for the batteries: Brand new electric buses paralyzed in Oslo

While everyday life in Norway's capital continues unperturbed, public transport is at a standstill - Oslo's fleet of electric buses can't cope with the cold.

aussiedlerbote.de

Yeah that was me, a good friend of my son lives in Norway and all three of these countries Norway, Sweden and Finland are very much behind the whole EV revolution and are way ahead of most countries when it comes to charging infrastructure.

 

[Footie]

The grid is way under powered I live in a condo and the same transformer has blown 3 times in last past year. If they can’t give us enough electricity to power our heat/AC and keep the lights on how are they going to add charging cars to that mix . To put it into perspective I do not live in a low income or middle class area. A condo is $500,000-1M and a house starts at the 2.4 to 2.6M and I live 2.5 miles out of Washington DC here all these polices are made.

Unfortunately too often development firms are very short sighted when it comes to the future and are more interested in the bottom line. Future proofing costs money and consumers don’t want to pay more for something they aren’t using at that moment.

 

[Footie]

And we get days when told to save electric cause everyone has their AC on 😥

When you consider just how much rain the UK annually gets as soon as we have a spell of dry weather for more than 3 weeks we are told to stop using our hoses because there’s a drought.

 

[Mii]

As legacy automakers play catch up to EVs in terms of connectivity, tech, and feature parity, the amount of ICE susceptible to hacking will increase. Basically every luxury car you get nowadays is connected and it will become even more so. When cars started becoming connected last decade, I'm sure this same argument was made. But the only hacking I hear about is traditional FOBs being cloned/relayed to steal ICE cars. Not an issue with EVs.

Plus if one EV charging network is down, just move to another. Once they become ubiquitous, it'll become better regulated. Let's not pretend all the gas stations aren't already susceptible to hacking.

Also most the charging happens at home. Think about you leaving your house daily with 80% fuel in the tank. You can go several days even if your home is hacked. If not, go to one of the established charging networks.

EV charging station hacking result broader impact radius (e.g. power grid), gas station credit card hacking does not hack into broader gas pipelines, we're talking about different vulnerabilities which need to be looked at on its own.

Limit charging at home is exactly the lack of practicality of moving toward EV. Someone mentioned earlier that no one would be interested to have gas fuel pump at home (potential fire hazard), likewise, EV charging model is facing the same challenges if not more inconvenience already!

Simply put, as a potential auto customer, one would not need to worry about the range, extreme weather condition, fire hazard, higher initial cost, long term (auto/home) insurance premium. They want to buy a transportation unit that is likely designed for majority of consumers.

 

[ericsan13]

EV charging station hacking result broader impact radius (e.g. power grid), gas station credit card hacking does not hack into broader gas pipelines, we're talking about different vulnerabilities which need to be looked at on its own.

Limit charging at home is exactly the lack of practicality of moving toward EV. Someone mentioned earlier that no one would be interested to have gas fuel pump at home (potential fire hazard), likewise, EV charging model is facing the same challenges if not more inconvenience already!

Simply put, as a potential auto customer, one would not need to worry about the range, extreme weather condition, fire hazard, higher initial cost, long term (auto/home) insurance premium. They want to buy a transportation unit that is likely designed for majority of consumers.

There is not one single EV charging network. There are many and each one would have to be hacked to have a broad effect.

Funny that you see limiting EV charging at home as a con. I see that as a big pro and a L2 charger at home is as safe and consumes roughly the same power as many other appliances already commonly found in home: electric dryer, electric cooking range, electric water heater, hot tub, A/C, the list goes on. Sure each of these are potential fire hazard but it is not EV-specific.

If you're dead against a L2 charger, just use a regular 120V outlet and you regain 2 miles/hour for the heaviest of EVs. I think it's much more for Model 3 and Y.

I see leaving home with 80% full range every day as a huge plus. No more shady gas stations and no more oil dependence. I went over a mountain pass and back today and didn't have to charge outside or get gas. Tomorrow my car will be ready for another road trip.

Yes the EV industry will definitely have to bend over backwards for mass adoption. Currently it only works for so many people. Yet that number is growing increasingly fast.

 

[Footie]

EV charging station hacking result broader impact radius (e.g. power grid), gas station credit card hacking does not hack into broader gas pipelines, we're talking about different vulnerabilities which need to be looked at on its own.

Limit charging at home is exactly the lack of practicality of moving toward EV. Someone mentioned earlier that no one would be interested to have gas fuel pump at home (potential fire hazard), likewise, EV charging model is facing the same challenges if not more inconvenience already!

Simply put, as a potential auto customer, one would not need to worry about the range, extreme weather condition, fire hazard, higher initial cost, long term (auto/home) insurance premium. They want to buy a transportation unit that is likely designed for majority of consumers.

I want to address one aspect of your post which is home insurance premium going up because of EV charging. I have just within this last week had to renew our business insurance and it’s through the same company as my home insurance.

The only thing that actually puts up premiums isn’t an EV charger it’s solar panels, so if you have them then you are paying more for your insurance.

Think I should expand on this, with solar panels you have a battery storage system inside the house or garage that your home uses if and when these panels aren’t generating electricity, if even if the fire department isolates the power to your home these panels are still generating power.

We have over 100KW/h of solar panels on my business and the saving far out weigh the premium.

 

[reguy]

How do the number of gas pumps and EV charging ports compare in the U.S.?

"The U.S. averages about 104 gas pumps per 1,000 road miles, compared to just 22 EV charging ports."

Source below, which is an interesting read.

Coast | EV Charging Stations vs. Gas Stations: Comparing Density in the U.S.coastpay.com

 

[Footie]

How do the number of gas pumps and EV charging ports compare in the U.S.?

"The U.S. averages about 104 gas pumps per 1,000 road miles, compared to just 22 EV charging ports."

Source below, which is an interesting read.

Coast | EV Charging Stations vs. Gas Stations: Comparing Density in the U.S.coastpay.com

I know we have touched on this before about charging at home but you really need to look at the whole EV charging situation completely differently to an ICE car. You don’t have the ability to fill your gasoline or diesel cars at home but you can add an EV charger and top up your EV car so the density of gas station needs to be far greater than EV charging station, it’s simple logic.

Now I appreciate that in the US it appears that adapting an older home to be capable of home charging can be expensive but it’s the future and it’s something that needs to be addressed.

If you were to ask those members on here who own an EV and a home charger how often per year they have actually charged their car away from their home I am willing to bet that average overall would be incredibly low. I am not trying to tell anyone how to suck eggs but if you are considering an EV you really should be looking into home charging as well and if that expense is too much then for the time being I would stick with what you know.

 

[grim]

They want to buy a transportation unit that is likely designed for majority of consumers.

Now I appreciate that in the US it appears that adapting an older home to be capable of home charging can be expensive but it’s the future and it’s something that needs to be addressed.

Here is the problem. Auto buyers in the US, the majority of them are NOT enthusiasts. We here are a Tiny fraction of the Macan community and a very tiny fraction of those who buy autos. In no way are we representative. For the majority, cars are expensive appliances, nothing more, nothing less. The big decision is "what color?" and "how much are the payments"?

Here its much more nuanced. Enthusiasts, regardless of which side you are on in this discussion, are extreme in that they represent the far end, several standard deviations from the norm, either side of the normal curve. Meanwhile, the majority, the normal, don't care one wit about the car, other than they need it go to work, school, shopping, etc.

And no, "its not the future", that depends upon a personal POV. I've been told flying cars were the future 50 years ago. Still waiting. I was told Laserdiscs were the future, I bought a player, cutting edge, early adopter and got burned. CDs? Cassettes? WAVE of the future. DVRs? WAVE of the future, none of it has been true.

Technology advances far too fast. 50 years ago who could believe you could heat up or cook a dinner in a "microwave" in 3 minutes when cooking took HOURS? Just 30 years ago whoever would have believed you don't need to watch TV live, don't need a cassette recorder, but could be watching anything you want, on your phone, in 4K, anytime???

Its a big mistake to "predict" anything is the future, especially when its in its infancy.

I went into photography for awhile, bought professional type equipment, I knew digital, over time, would replace film as the resolution of sensors got better, and now all that expensive glass don't really matter cause my $1K phone takes just as good a picture for 95% of things.

Time marches on and technology gets better and better and better. I would not bet on anyone thing. Choice is the best of all and decide for yourself. Choose wisely.

 

[Footie]

Here is the problem. Auto buyers in the US, the majority of them are NOT enthusiasts. We here are a Tiny fraction of the Macan community and a very tiny fraction of those who buy autos. In no way are we representative. For the majority, cars are expensive appliances, nothing more, nothing less. The big decision is "what color?" and "how much are the payments".

Here its much more nuanced. Enthusiasts, regardless of which side you are on in this discussion, are extreme in that they represent the far end, several standard deviations from the norm, either side of the normal curve. Meanwhile, the majority, the normal, don't care on wit about the car, other than the need it go get to work, school, shopping, etc.

And no, "its not the future", that depends upon a personal POV. I've been told fly cars were the future 50 years ago. Still waiting. I was told Laserdiscs were the future, I bought a player, cutting edge, early adopter and got burned. CDs? Cassettes? WAVE of the future. DVRs? WAVE of the future, none of it has been true.

Technology advances far too fast. 50 years ago who could believe you could heat up or cook a dinner in a "microwave" in 3 minutes when cooking took HOURS? Just 30 years ago whoever would have believed you don't need to watch TV live, don't need a cassette recorder, but could be watching anything you want, on your phone, in 4K, anytime???

Its a big mistake to "predict" anything is the future, especially when its in its infancy.

I went into photography for awhile, bought professionally type equipment, I knew digital, over time, would replace film as the resolution of sensors got better, and now all that expensive glass don't really matter cause my $1K phone takes just as good a picture for 95% of things.

Time marches on and technology gets better and better and better. I would not bet on anyone thing. Choice is the best of all and decide for yourself. Choose wisely.

Is it the future, I think like it or not it will be because the money each brand is spending on EV technology you don’t do that is you believe it’s just a fad that will run its course in 5 years.

But everything else I said is 100% correct, if every EV owner had a home charger then the need for a network coverage similar it ICE is negated completely. Anyone with a home charger almost exclusively charges at home.

And like I also said if the expense of home charging is too big a pill to swallow then at least you have other options.

 

[reguy]

In the US it’s not uncommon for people to take trips of more than 300 or 400 miles by car. I don’t do it anymore but I used to make a trip 1,100 miles each way once or twice a year. Home charging alone won’t work for that. There have also been many times when I needed my car late at night for an unplanned and unexpected occurrence, which would have interrupted overnight charging. I don’t think home charging alone will work, at least not for me.

 

[Footie]

In the US it’s not uncommon for people to take trips of more than 300 or 400 miles by car. I don’t do it anymore but I used to make a trip 1,100 miles each way once or twice a year. Home charging alone won’t work for that. There have also been many times when I needed my car late at night for an unplanned and unexpected occurrence, which would have interrupted overnight charging. I don’t think home charging alone will work, at least not for me.

A trip once or twice you say, so the rest of the time home charging would be perfectly acceptable. So those rare trips you will need to call in at a fast charging site and top up for about 20-30mins, great opportunity to stretch your legs, take a toilet break and grab a quick bite.

I run a business and I am basically on call 24/7, numerous times have I been called out to a false alarm etc. What I do is never let my battery drop below 60% if I can help it and always charge to 100%, that earlier discussion about 80% refers to fast charging not the slow charging of a domestic charger, is even if I’m called out I have approximately 160-170 miles available worst case, if I were driving the Macan you would be talking about 260-270 miles. If you are needing more than 260-270 miles at any one time then stick with a ICE or accept that occasionally you might need to add a few KW at a fast charger till you get home again.

 

[slw23]

Excited to officially learn more about the Macan EV next week!

Macan sets new standards: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche

Porsche is launching its second all-electric model.

newsroom.porsche.com

 

[Robert M]

'A Bunch of Dead Robots:' Frigid Chicago Temps Turn EV Charging Stations into 'Car Graveyards'

A surge of stranded electric vehicles, predominantly Tesla cars, has overtaken the Oak Brook Supercharger station in Chicago, as a severe cold snap renders many EVs powerless and immobile.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Footie]

'A Bunch of Dead Robots:' Frigid Chicago Temps Turn EV Charging Stations into 'Car Graveyards'

A surge of stranded electric vehicles, predominantly Tesla cars, has overtaken the Oak Brook Supercharger station in Chicago, as a severe cold snap renders many EVs powerless and immobile.

www.breitbart.com

Why is it all Teslas having this problem, I am not sure but I do they share their technology with anyone else?

Don’t Porsche and Audi use Rimac tech?

 

[ericsan13]

'A Bunch of Dead Robots:' Frigid Chicago Temps Turn EV Charging Stations into 'Car Graveyards'

A surge of stranded electric vehicles, predominantly Tesla cars, has overtaken the Oak Brook Supercharger station in Chicago, as a severe cold snap renders many EVs powerless and immobile.

www.breitbart.com

I'm sure there's some truth to this but it sounds blown out of proportion. They claim one owner didn't charge their Tesla since Sunday...so why didn't they just charge at home? You have to plan ahead, not wait until your gauge dips below the E.

Another saying they have to charge six times in one day due to cold temps? I'm not sure if that's a Tesla thing but that sounds wrong. I went sledding over the mountain pass yesterday in 12F weather (-10F with windchill) and other than cranking the climate control temp up that didn't impact my range in the slightest. More of a EV hit piece than a reliable article, but that's par for the course these days.

 

[Robert M]

Why is it all Teslas having this problem, I am not sure but I do they share their technology with anyone else?

Don’t Porsche and Audi use Rimac tech?

I think it may just be due the sheer number of Teslas on the road vs all other EVs, or they don't protect them as well.