Honestly, who cares? People, grow up.

Anyone who followed endurance racing or raced their own Porsche whether in autocross or maybe SCAA or club car racing, You are making the argument the Macan EV is an appliance

There is nothing wrong with appliances, I got two coffee makers right now. They do the job they are built for, ….

But nobody put a poster of a coffee maker on their wall as a kid and dreamt of owning one.

 

For the sake of argument . . .

If tomorrow the only choice I had for a transportation appliance were EVs . . . the Macan EV would not even be a consideration

At that point there would be nothing left for me except simply getting from point A to point B . . . Porsche has no secret sauce in the EV world to back up their premium pricing

AVM

Worst decision ever for Macan EV what Porsche did is getting rid of 2nd gear transmission. It was unique to Porsche, developmental superiority when introducing Tycan. They just ADMITTED it is fail. Geez…

 

Worst decision ever for Macan EV what Porsche did is getting rid of 2nd gear transmission. It was unique to Porsche, developmental superiority when introducing Tycan. They just ADMITTED it is fail. Geez…

I do not even know what 2nd gear technology is . . . but I believe you

AVM

 

P.T. Barnum once said, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity,” which is almost as good as Oscar Wilde’s version, who put it like this: “There’s only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

Neither of them knew the Macan EV was coming

AVM

 

Do we really? Many of us had posters on the wall as little children of the Porsche. Growing up buying the car that we had dreamed of. Porsche makes a lot of advertisements which focus on remembering those portions of one’s childhood. It’s a common thread among many Porsche owners. .

This is not the only commercial of this type. It sells because people who buy the car relate to it.

Ok one more .. but there're even. more like this .

Larry, you did not read my intent. I quoted all of your post admittedly, although I wanted to highlight one aspect of it only. The ‘hooliganism’ on the street is childish and should not have place, go to a track instead if your need for speed is overflowing. That was my point. I take your point about being passionate about the ICE technology and Porsche in particular and its role in the entire history of racing, passion about cars, contribution to motor industry, etc. But those little petty things and behaviour on streets is all but laughable in my mind, people should grow up and grow out of this. Enjoy the car you’re passionate about. If this is a Corvette, be it. OTOH let people be what they want, and respect their opinion. Clearly this thread to me has become a fight of two camps. It doesn’t need to be. And to be honest I’m already tired. The discussion goes in circles around the same set of arguments, and is not contributing in any new way. That’s how I see it. Yep, the moderators will soon slap me and may be even ban me from the forum. Because I speak my mind, and see the world differently than many of the highly opinionated people I come to meet here. It is often beyond passion, and bordeing on forcing one’s views on others. I’m not calling out anyone, just saying. I feel we need more breathing space, less fighting, and let people have their own opinions. Again, I get all the passion about where we all have come from. I myself been driving AMG cars for 20 years+ and come to Porsche with GTS as the entry point, if this matters at all. But I know that we can’t avoid change, and this is happening now. So enjoy ICE for as long as you can but don’t lose the fact that EV is coming. We will all die, sooner or later, and some of us sooner. ICE may too. Cars as we know them will too. If you know Atlassian, an Australian software giant, and listen to its founders - one of them said two years ago, his daughter who’s around 10yo will not even attempt to obtain a driver licence, she will not need one, as “cars”, or whatever they’ll be called, will be self driving. The young generation is certainly different to us already.

 

one of them said two years ago, his daughter who’s around 10yo will not even attempt to obtain a driver licence, she will not need one, as “cars”, or whatever they’ll be called, will be self driving. The young generation is certainly different to us already.

No one is getting banned for differences in opinion

As to predictions, dont believe them, probably the most famous being we will have flying cars 1964, still waiting. 😵The trolley problem is likely insurmountable. The first death from AI will result in endless lawsuits. Self driving cars are movie clickbait.

Dont want to go astray here but I see nothing indicating a Macan EV replacing an ICE EV other than by law.

 

know the US and Aussie dollars are not at par, so you got to do the math, its about $1.54 Aussie? You know what has been about the biggest shocker for people here the last decade, those not coming from the marque? Maintenance cost. Countless posts on “stealerships”, $4 - $5K routine major service, $18 - $22K for PDK. You know how much a LED headlight cost Installed? $4K

Yes, it’s a big consideration for me actually. I want to avoid this cost going forward. Macan EV requires service every two years, and the service will cost a small fraction of my current GTS. Also, the longer I drive the GTS, the maintenance costs, and hassles, will grow appropriately along the journey. I want to avoid it.

You are going to replace an early gen lithium module with a second gen solid state module? The tech doesnt exist and what would be the Porsche tax on that?

Maybe I will, 8 years down the ownership journey, when the warranty on the battery is out, and there is new battery tech available. At least Porsche has made it modular, so why not?

you think that because there are less moving parts thats going to save money, the money is in the labor and much of the car is identical. Headlights are headlights. PCM is PCM Leather is leather, etc.

Yes. I say so based on my direct experience daily driving a Mini EV for the last two years. My service cost has been zero to date. My brakes are still at 100%. I replaced two front tires this month. That’s all.

 

I do not even know what 2nd gear technology is . . . but I believe you

AVM

Tycan has two gear transmission unlike other EV single-speed direct gear box that allow Tycan can be front wheel or rear wheel or four wheel drive and better acceleration and high speed efficacy. But not in Macan EV.

 

Yes. I say so based on my direct experience daily driving a Mini EV for the last two years. My service cost has been zero to date. My brakes are still at 100%. I replaced two front tires this month. That’s all.

Is not Mini service free for 3 years?

https://www.miniusa.com/why-mini/why-mini/covered-maintenance.html

Its not really free but a sunk cost built into the MSRP. Nothing is free.

 

Larry, you did not read my intent. I quoted all of your post admittedly, although I wanted to highlight one aspect of it only. The ‘hooliganism’ on the street is childish and should not have place, go to a track instead if your need for speed is overflowing. That was my point. I take your point about being passionate about the ICE technology and Porsche in particular and its role in the entire history of racing, passion about cars, contribution to motor industry, etc. But those little petty things and behaviour on streets is all but laughable in my mind, people should grow up and grow out of this. Enjoy the car you’re passionate about. If this is a Corvette, be it. OTOH let people be what they want, and respect their opinion. Clearly this thread to me has become a fight of two camps. It doesn’t need to be. And to be honest I’m already tired. The discussion goes in circles around the same set of arguments, and is not contributing in any new way. That’s how I see it. Yep, the moderators will soon slap me and may be even ban me from the forum. Because I speak my mind, and see the world differently than many of the highly opinionated people I come to meet here. It is often beyond passion, and bordeing on forcing one’s views on others. I’m not calling out anyone, just saying. I feel we need more breathing space, less fighting, and let people have their own opinions. Again, I get all the passion about where we all have come from. I myself been driving AMG cars for 20 years+ and come to Porsche with GTS as the entry point, if this matters at all. But I know that we can’t avoid change, and this is happening now. So enjoy ICE for as long as you can but don’t lose the fact that EV is coming. We will all die, sooner or later, and some of us sooner. ICE may too. Cars as we know them will too. If you know Atlassian, an Australian software giant, and listen to its founders - one of them said two years ago, his daughter who’s around 10yo will not even attempt to obtain a driver licence, she will not need one, as “cars”, or whatever they’ll be called, will be self driving. The young generation is certainly different to us already.

Those commercials didn't just remind me of myself , Porsche made others where they told us about THEMSELVES . The reason why its relevant is because just as they centered on childhood they also released models and called them FAMILY . The EV does not feel like family . I can. gibe many examples .. here's two.

1) The Cayenne came before the Macan and some questioned a Porsche SUV , They let us know that the car is linked with Porsche DNA . They picked the Super Bowl to do it .

2) The Panamera launch gathered the rest of the family

EV is not family . They are trying to be cordial , First they preserved the nest egg . The Gt car was normally aspirated !! Then they clung to the 911 as ICE . They let the rest go .. bit and piece at a time .
You are spending a ton of money on a Macan EV when you can buy one any time . Ask that same dealership if they have a 911 allocation and watch the pause .

 

Is not Mini service free for 3 years?

https://www.miniusa.com/why-mini/why-mini/covered-maintenance.html

Its not really free but a sunk cost built into the MSRP. Nothing is free.

yes it was included … but don’t let be mistaken by the fact that the only service required has been replacing the air filter for the air we breathe in the cabin.

 

I do not even know what 2nd gear technology is . . . but I believe you

AVM

Taycan's 2 gear is superior to a 1 gear transmission in an EV for the reasons below. I love it!
Macan EV does not need this complexity as it has a different driving dynamics purpose than a Taycan.

 

Those commercials didn't just remind me of myself , Porsche made others where they told us about THEMSELVES . The reason why its relevant is because just as they centered on childhood they also released models and called them FAMILY . The EV does not feel like family

EV is not family . They are trying to be cordial

Lemme add to this. In 2011 Porsche ran a TV ad contest. Consumers made the videos, here was the winner

NOT an appliance, but family. Many members here are on their third or more Macan.

 

Lenme add to this. In 2011 Porsche ran a TV ad contest. Consumers made the videos, here was the winner

NOT an appliance, but family. Many members here are on their third or more Macan.

I remember this! Thanks for posting. There’s another one that I looked for of the child who turned into the pro driver with the GT car.

So many memories ! If only that front compartment trunk could speak.

 

The secret sauce is how they feel through the wheel and the seat of your pants, this goes for all Porsches whether they are a sports car or an SUV or even an EV, few get close to offering their level of involvement, refinement and usability. This is what separates them and gains them loyalty.

Heresy again but I do not feel like my Macan performs levels above and beyond a lot of other luxury SUV choices. I get your point though.

I realize "its just an SUV" might be the draw for many of the recent Macan buyers (particularly after they built the base car) however behind every Porsche badge is a history of racing . Even if its "just to go to the mall shopping " it's a Porsche !!!

Don't forget you need to get to the mall, fast!

Its not OT because the topic is disappointment and the racing heritage is the very reason the brand survived, you raced on Sunday and sold on Monday. Of course Chevy races too. And today I think in GT3 and win some too. But I dont think Chevy runs with the big boys, LMP1 or whatever FIA calls it now. Ford did and beat Ferrari three times before hanging it up it up. they made their point. Then Porsche dominated.

The 918, a hybrid, came from the 919 of Le Mans fame. Ferrari sold cars to race. Porsche built sports car you could drive home, then race on the weekend.

Your wifes brand name is not a logo about luxury. Its not a Louis Vuitton or Chanel bag with a name associated with luxury and high prices. Rather, its a legend from racing. The number 2 auto that won the most races is … the 911. You are buying into a legendary company that wins auto racing from rallies to endurance championships. They sell 4 door cars to allow them to build the 911. It took a long time for many to accept that but SUVs replaced minivans.

Every ad you see, for all Porsches talks about one thing, 911 DNA. Macan press release

https://presskit.porsche.de/models/en/porsche-macan/topic/design-and-equipment.html

The DNA of the sports car icon 911

It's funny you bring up purses because while my wife understands her Hermes bags is blah blah heritage and tradition, she still boils it down to brand name. I suspect most Macan buyers don't know/don't care about the racing heritage and pay the premium for the brand name, just like a purse.

But my point is I feel that the Macan Turbo power output compared to Model Y P, Rivian, Ionic 5 N, and EV6 GT is a valid disappointment. In a market without Ferraris and Lambos, I still expect the Macan Turbo EV to be the speed king of EV SUVs. Oh well.

 

Heresy again but I do not feel like my Macan performs levels above and beyond a lot of other luxury SUV choices. I get your point though.



Don't forget you need to get to the mall, fast!



It's funny you bring up purses because while my wife understands her Hermes bags is blah blah heritage and tradition, she still boils it down to brand name. I suspect most Macan buyers don't know/don't care about the racing heritage and pay the premium for the brand name, just like a purse.

But my point is I feel that the Macan Turbo power output compared to Model Y P, Rivian, Ionic 5 N, and EV6 GT is a valid disappointment. In a market without Ferraris and Lambos, I still expect the Macan Turbo EV to be the speed king of EV SUVs. Oh well.

A current model GTS would absolutely destroy a model Y in just about any test of skill or agility.

And just for the record, it smashed the model Y in a drag race too.

 

Heresy again but I do not feel like my Macan performs levels above and beyond a lot of other luxury SUV choices. I get your point though.

The Macan is the one model I never owned but owned a couple of Cayennes and at that time nothing felt as well sorted for both luxury and sportiness as it, the Range Rover Sport did the luxury a bit better and to be honest I felt the X5M give a sportier feel but neither combined the two as well or even close. Regarding the EV side which we are really discussing because there’s ZERO point referring to an ICE Macan because it’s a completely different product and anyone owning an Taycan will know the Macan EV will drive nothing like the old Macan so we have to look at other SUV EVs to see how they will compare and frankly only the Lotus is remotely similar IMO and it’s HUGE by comparison.

At the moment nothing I see will come close to offering what the Macan EV will offer.

 

A current model GTS would absolutely destroy a model Y in just about any test of skill or agility.

And just for the record, it smashed the model Y in a drag race too.

If speed is your deal then surely the X3M is better, it’s way quicker and petrol too so no need to worry about range if that’s your biggest concern but at the end of the day it’s not a Porsche and that is what keeps you with the GTS.

 

If speed is your deal then surely the X3M is better, it’s way quicker and petrol too so no need to worry about range if that’s your biggest concern but at the end of the day it’s not a Porsche and that is what keeps you with the GTS.

Its not my "deal" with a Macan . Its what is a selling point used by EV to coax the masses that it has this juvenile perk to it.
X3 M is not just ugly. BMW is not Porsche . I have owned plenty of them and there are not bad cars but they are not great .

 

If speed is your deal then surely the X3M is better, it’s way quicker and petrol too so no need to worry about range if that’s your biggest concern but at the end of the day it’s not a Porsche and that is what keeps you with the GTS.

I had a BMW X3M on a weekend long test drive before buying my current Macan GTS. It was one of the worst cars I have ever driven. Yes, it's fast but that was the only positive for me. The suspension was much too hard....generally very noisy and uncomfortable. It's not just about speed!

 

It will be interesting to see how well interest translates to sales. EV sales writ large are slowing, more problems are surfacing and evolving technology likely means lower resale values.

BUT the big question is this: As we move to EVs what exactly is Porsche’s discriminator? Is Porsche going to have superior electric motors? Handle better? Better interior? Or is it simply the status symbol of owning a Porsche that justifies the cost?

Buying a ICE I know I want a Porsche. To me it’s worth the premium price. But an EV? I’m not so sure. If I were forced to buy today I’d probably go with Hyundai or Kia.

 

Dont want to go astray here but I see nothing indicating a Macan EV replacing an ICE EV other than by law.

Indeed, what we have here is consumers who love strawberries . . . and ‘legislators’ dictating everything we eat must be orange.

If the consumers want strawberries, they will get legislators who love strawberries and support farmers who grow strawberries.

‘Drill baby drill’ is coming – and all that comes along with it . . . strawberries will once again be the bunker crop that feeds a nation

AVM

 

In my view it really depends on what you need your car for, and what you enjoy. It also depends on how developed the charger infrastructure is in your region. I have waited until there were enough fast charges in my proximity before deciding to buy an EV, plus I was lucky enough to be given an EV for a month to try out.

Only after that I have decided to go ahead and reluctantly swapped my 740xd for a MY 2023 Taycan CT4 (turbo gave me a whiplash). I've had it now for a few months, and it's a great car to drive, although I still think my BMW 340i is more fun for half the price.

In my area we sadly have plenty or speed cameras and average speed measuring cameras, so going fast is really out of question. With that in mind, I have just ordered a Macan T, even though I loved the GTS the most.

The bottom line is, technology is changing whether we like it or not.

 

The bottom line is, technology is changing whether we like it or not.

I totally disagree with this. If I don't like something I will not be doing it. Just because someone tells me to do something doesn't mean I will automatically do it. I have my own mind and my own opinions on what is right and wrong. Nobody tells me what to do without me questioning everything before I make a decision that will suit me and my family best.
Don't be a sheep....or a lemming!

 

This also indicated other Porsche lineups are as vulnerable as Macan ICE!

If my simple interpretation is correct, that is absolutely insane and tells me what I already know . . . the automakers are COMPLICIT in what I consider to be a nefarious legislative agenda.

Not only have Porsche thrown the baby out with the bath water but (in Europe at least) they have actually killed the baby!

I think there is a misunderstanding here of what is going on. It took a minute to research it. Lets look at the facts more closely. You got to start at the SOURCE. Where is this coming from ... UNECE R155 from 2021. Its not like this just happened yesterday. But that's the UN. There is no world government. And its about cybersecurity which is a GOOD thing. You all want your car hacked?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNECE_R_155

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2023-02/R155e%20%282%29.pdf

Who are the members? Here

Member States | UNECE

unece.org

The EU approves laws for Europe, not the UN. And they have decided to enforce this regulation beginning July, 2024. Guess who has NOT signed up to this, two countries, which ones?

USA and Canada, and I don't see Australia either

Now to the Macan, you can begin by reading this

How UNECE R155 Redefined Porsche's Strategy and the Automotive Landscape

Cybersecurity Criticality in the Automotive Sector

mikeentnergomez.substack.com

Its long, explains UNECE R155, the parts of IT it involves, and shows it goes back to Tier1 suppliers. This is all GOOD stuff, unless you want the bad guys to take control of your car. And also explains its a business decision. They are not going to fix a 10 year old car.

But wait, what about the 95.B? Porsche generations usually run about 8 years, more or less. The 95B is now on its 10th year and there will be a eleventh year. AFAIK that is unheard of. I don't know of any third production cycle vehicle. This car was supposed to have died back around MY20 but my guess is the pandemic messed up everything. So here we are. Read the article below. Quote from Porsche.

Cybersecurity Law Forces Porsche To Kill Gas-Powered Macan In Europe [Update]

Porsche just debuted the new, all-electric Macan, but production of a gas-powered model will continue for the US and other markets.

www.motor1.com

A Porsche spokesperson confirmed to Motor1 that the gas model will live on in the US for the foreseeable future.

But wait, what about the 992, Cayenne? Why aren't they being killed?

This regulation doesn't affect sales of the 911, Taycan, Panamera, and Cayenne, which all use new electrical architectures and comply with the law.

Sometimes the answers are simple. Its bad business to fix something old.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding here of what is going on. It took a minute to research it. Lets look at the facts more closely. You got to start at the SOURCE. Where is this coming from ... UNECE R155 from 2021. Its not like this just happened yesterday. But that's the UN. There is no world government. And its about cybersecurity which is a GOOD thing. You all want your car hacked?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNECE_R_155

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2023-02/R155e%20%282%29.pdf

Who are the members? Here

Member States | UNECE

unece.org

The EU approves laws for Europe, not the UN. And they have decided to enforce this regulation beginning July, 2024. Guess who has NOT signed up to this, two countries, which ones?

USA and Canada, and I don't see Australia either

Now to the Macan, you can begin by reading this

How UNECE R155 Redefined Porsche's Strategy and the Automotive Landscape

Cybersecurity Criticality in the Automotive Sector

mikeentnergomez.substack.com

Its long, explains UNECE R155, the parts of IT it involves, and shows it goes back to Tier1 suppliers. This is all GOOD stuff, unless you want the bad guys to take control of your car. And also explains its a business decision. They are not going to fix a 10 year old car.

But wait, what about the 95.B? Porsche generations usually run about 8 years, more or less. The 95B is now on its 10th year and there will be a eleventh year. AFAIK that is unheard of. I don't know of any third production cycle vehicle. This car was supposed to have died back around MY20 but my guess is the pandemic messed up everything. So here we are. Read the article below. Quote from Porsche.

Cybersecurity Law Forces Porsche To Kill Gas-Powered Macan In Europe [Update]

Porsche just debuted the new, all-electric Macan, but production of a gas-powered model will continue for the US and other markets.

www.motor1.com

A Porsche spokesperson confirmed to Motor1 that the gas model will live on in the US for the foreseeable future.

But wait, what about the 992, Cayenne? Why aren't they being killed?

This regulation doesn't affect sales of the 911, Taycan, Panamera, and Cayenne, which all use new electrical architectures and comply with the law.

Sometimes the answers are simple. Its bad business to fix something old.

Very nice write up, but I do not THINK it addresses my point based on my understanding. . .

Namely, if it’s all about cybersecurity, then it has nothing to do with ICE. It’s a computer chip or program. As you stated, Porsche ‘fixed it’ in the 911 without destroying the 911.

If Porsche wanted to redesign the Macan, that’s cool. The 718 needs a refresh too. However, they could have changed a computer chip without killing the appliance.

I do not think Porsche is a victim of the nefarious ‘legislation,’ I think they are complicit in it. . .

AVM

 

Thanks but its a business design. The new regulation means the cybersecurity has to be integrated as part of the car design from day 1.

How UNECE R155 Redefined Porsche's Strategy and the Automotive Landscape

Cybersecurity Criticality in the Automotive Sector

mikeentnergomez.substack.com

security needs to be a fundamental part of vehicle design, not an afterthought ... Implementing UNECE R155 is no small undertaking for vehicle manufacturers. They must demonstrate compliance with the regulation through rigorous testing and certification processes.

There is no way they are going to build a second generation ICE vehicle. It makes no business sense UNLESS, the NA market has sufficient sales to justify the ROI. Its all about making money and PAG is VERY VERY GOOD at making money.

The 718 ICE is dead. Per Porsche, It only existed for the Chinese market. There is little to no US market for the 718. There will be no 718 ICE.

I firmly believe this is all about making money, and nothing else.