[Raneleigh]

This is the best example of Torque Vectoring at work that I've come across so far:

Ricardo Torque Vectoring - YouTube

Not exactly the same system as in the Macan, but it gives you a good idea of how it works in general with good visual comparisons.

 

[grim]

Ohhh, so THAT's why people complain about the rear breaks wearing out faster!!! Sorry, but that's just about the dumbest example ever. If you can even blame that misstep on PTV first of all and second of all, that PTV at work in everyday driving would wear out breaks even remotely to the same degree. If I drove like that all the time, I would expect fast break wear, PTV aside. And even as an extreme overblown example, in everyday driving with PTV at work, additional break wear is probably nominal at best.

Who blamed his late braking into the turn on PTV?

Who said anything about excessive rear brake wear on the street? It's a track issue.

This is just an real life example of it in action, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Raneleigh]

Who blamed his late braking into the turn on PTV?

Who said anything about excessive rear brake wear on the street? It's a track issue.

This is just an real life example of it in action, nothing more, nothing less.

I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. You said the video shows PTV in action - and what you see in the clip is obviously not a good thing, which seems to suggest that PTV failed in some way.

Then you said that it shows the rear breaking in action and also why some people complain about the rear breaks wearing out faster. By "some people", did you mean only those who track the car? I thought you were referencing people in general.

No offense intended, but I'm sure you can see how I might have misunderstood what you were getting at.

 

[MotorCityMacan]

For what it's worth, from Road and Track:

2014 Porsche Macan - First Drive - Road & Track

"Buyers would do well to drop the $1490 on the available Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) rear differential. Combined with Porsche’s rear-biased all-wheel-drive tuning, it all but eliminated understeer. Pile into a corner in a Macan with PTV, feed in throttle, and you can feel the slight initial understeer become oversteer as the rear end starts to wiggle under full throttle. On the street, the dramatic effects of PTV are less noticeable, but we can imagine huge benefits in snowy climes."

 

[MotorCityMacan]

(Full disclosure: I did not order PTV)

 

[Irish]

I got PTV+ on a recommendation from my SA for it's contribution during adverse road conditions, which is about 6mths of the year where I live. I must admit that I will not be staying home during the whole winter and will be away for a few months but I will be driving the car as much as possible on my returns home. It seemed like it was one of the better value options and it did include the LSD which I had wanted. I put a lot of options on my Macan and came in around $80k CAD even with 18" wheels. I am anxiously waiting to try out the 18" AS combo in some bad weather with the PTV+

My SA said unless I going to bring the car to the track, PTV+ would have little value. Yes, on the margin it could help in adverse weather, but reasonable speed in adverse weather is probably more important.

 

[grim]

I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. You said the video shows PTV in action - and what you see in the clip is obviously not a good thing, which seems to suggest that PTV failed in some way.

Then you said that it shows the rear breaking in action and also why some people complain about the rear breaks wearing out faster. By "some people", did you mean only those who track the car? I thought you were referencing people in general.

No offense intended, but I'm sure you can see how I might have misunderstood what you were getting at.

NP

This was just a video a saw today. The driver said it showed PTV in action on the track. You can see that it corrected the turn as he would have ran off the road otherwise.

It's not a failure. It worked.

As the premature brake failure, read this thread Beware of premature failure of Porsche PCCB ceramic brakes - 6speedonline.com Forums

yes, on the track and this guy is not happy about those $10K replacements.

 

[bbturbodad]

My friend called me yesterday and said he test drove a Turbo without PTV+ or SC and loved it but wanted to know if I had them on mine. I told him I do and would love for him to drive it and let me know what he thinks. He drove mine and placed his order today...his build includes both PTV+ and SC. He said it was great without it but clearly better when Driving the car through canyon roads.

 

[thkemp]

I have tormented myself over the PTV, 20" wheels, AS, ect.
The bottom line for me is this. I test drove an S with 19" wheels and no PTV, no AS, and was quite pleased with the feel and performance. Just a great car overall, even dead stock. Beyond that it all comes down to personal choice and any budget limitations. In the end, I selected an S with PTV and AS.

 

[Raneleigh]

NP

This was just a video a saw today. The driver said it showed PTV in action on the track. You can see that it corrected the turn as he would have ran off the road otherwise.

It's not a failure. It worked.

As the premature brake failure, read this thread Beware of premature failure of Porsche PCCB ceramic brakes - 6speedonline.com Forums

yes, on the track and this guy is not happy about those $10K replacements.

Thanks, very interesting about the breaks. That is an insane amount of money to replace them!

 

[Raneleigh]

I have tormented myself over the PTV, 20" wheels, AS, ect.
The bottom line for me is this. I test drove an S with 19" wheels and no PTV, no AS, and was quite pleased with the feel and performance. Just a great car overall, even dead stock. Beyond that it all comes down to personal choice and any budget limitations. In the end, I selected an S with PTV and AS.

I couldn't agree more. I tested an S with 19" wheels and no PTV or AS and I felt the exact same way - just terrific even stripped down. Anyone getting that car should be thrilled. Anything beyond that is exactly as you said...personal choice and budget. In the end, I opted for the base suspension. It wasn't until the very last minute that I added PTV. I will probably have the only Macan in the country with PTV and no other performance options. But that was my priority and I still feel happy with my build.

 

[Leonardo]

I couldn't agree more. I tested an S with 19" wheels and no PTV or AS and I felt the exact same way - just terrific even stripped down. Anyone getting that car should be thrilled. Anything beyond that is exactly as you said...personal choice and budget. In the end, I opted for the base suspension. It wasn't until the very last minute that I added PTV. I will probably have the only Macan in the country with PTV and no other performance options. But that was my priority and I still feel happy with my build.

Betcha you'll both enjoy your Macans immensely.

 

[remgb]

My friend called me yesterday and said he test drove a Turbo without PTV+ or SC and loved it but wanted to know if I had them on mine. I told him I do and would love for him to drive it and let me know what he thinks. He drove mine and placed his order today...his build includes both PTV+ and SC. He said it was great without it but clearly better when Driving the car through canyon roads.

Similar to this I did test drive of loaded Macan S and base Macan very close to each other (couple days apart) and really felt former to be more capable when pushing on exits. After getting my Macan, I am glad I ordered PTV+. I do all my speeding on exits. That said base Macan is no slouch...

 

[JRB]

Similar to this I did test drive of loaded Macan S and base Macan very close to each other (couple days apart) and really felt former to be more capable when pushing on exits. After getting my Macan, I am glad I ordered PTV+. I do all my speeding on exits. That said base Macan is no slouch...

If you are talking just straight line acceleration the lighter "base Macan" would be marginally faster than a "loaded" Macan S with the pano roof, privacy glass, air suspension, bigger/heavier wheels and tires and any other options that add significant weight...provided of course that the loaded model didn't also have the Sports Chrono option.

 

[irysfan]

So think very carefully about these performance options. If you really believe you can feel and gain benefit from PTV+, then by all means spend the money. But why stop there? PCCBs are now available. Everyone loves less unsprung weight.

Don't think too hard about PASM, PTV+, for the price of a Nav unit, just get them. You don't need to be a race car driver to feel and take advantage of these 2 options if you ever drive the Macan in a way close to how it is designed to be driven, and it won't take illegal or insane speed in the right condition. Even that guy in your YT video who seemed very confused about his correction in the YT video can take advantage of it (and PSM)

Porsche came up with PTV/+ primarily to fight the understeer tendency of the 911 which is the bane of car dynamics and that most sport car drivers hate because it makes the car that much harder to rotate in a corner. It is now grandfathered into the other models. On a heavier understeer-prone CUV & SUV, PTV+ is precious. Read Excellence Mag's summary which is pretty good.

There is no debate that the Macan is still a pretty good car without PASM & PTV+ but those are really big sports car handicaps whether you like it or not. It's a fact. But if the main purpose of your Macan is for drive kids to school, cross country trips, and haul grocery, load it up with luxury, loose these options and call it a day.

My point is if you buy a Porsche, option it like a Porsche, for the sports car company that it is known for. If you don't fancy the "sports car" portion of Porsche, then pick whatever.

PCCB on a Macan is dangerous territory, that can be many threads on its own. Start a thread and I'll be happy to jump in

Because they are Press Cars, not customer cars. All car makers want to put their best foot forward so they give the press over specced monsters. You will see $220K TTS cars and $150K C2S cars that nobody in their right mind would buy. Then when they do a comparison the auto journalist will point out something like "Well the Porsche was by far the best car but it cost so much!" Duh. How about because most buyers would never spec a real car that way?

I know enough owners who buy heavily loaded cars that defy common logic. It happens quite often moving up the range. Even loaded GT3 and GT2 which is plain wrong IMO. So don't think Press Car costs a lot with too many options that people won't buy.

I walked into a dealership to test drive a 997 Turbo a few yrs ago. She had <200 miles and turned out to be a pre-owned. The previous owner sold it because he doesn't like too much power and swapped it out for a regular 997, after taking the double sales tax and depreciation hit. I think that's crazy but the reality is that cost is not always a consideration for everyone.

 

[grim]

Porsche came up with PTV/+ primarily to fight the understeer tendency of the 911

911 have lift off oversteer. After you drive one for some time, you understand the physics. The mid-engined cars can be worse spinning like a top. There is a reason they called the GT2 the widow maker.

Those that heavily track their cars don't order PTV but want a robust mechanical LSD, like Quaife or Guard. PTV is not sufficient for heavy use. Its for normal street driving.

I know enough owners who buy heavily loaded cars that defy common logic. It happens quite often moving up the range.

I said "most" buyers, not "all buyers"

 

[irysfan]

911 have lift off oversteer. After you drive one for some time, you understand the physics. The mid-engined cars can be worse spinning like a top. There is a reason they called the GT2 the widow maker.

Those that heavily track their cars don't order PTV but want a robust mechanical LSD, like Quaife or Guard. PTV is not sufficient for heavy use. Its for normal street driving.

Lift off oversteer is a technique and you can make any sports car do that in a sweeper to rotate the car at the intermediate level but it can be dangerous for those who lift when they shouldn't. The 911 is more responsive to that. People complain from what I heard and read but it's not that bad in reality. Just need to know what to expect from a RR car and adjust driving style. Most oversteer problems are a result of driver mistakes.

If you have driven the 911 enough at pace you will know that it has the tendency to understeer, not oversteer, as compared with FR and MR sports cars. It loves to plow into and out of corners by default, which is very annoying and slow. MR cars ease of "spinning" as you put it, is desirable on the track for the purpose of initiating rotation which is essential to go fast. PTV/+ will help the 911, Macan and Cayenne behave more like a MR, which is desirable, to achieve a more sporty handling characteristics. What's magical about the Macan + PTV+ for me is that it's the only one in the segment that feels like it has the potential to be driven fast.

Very true about the after-market diff for track. The PTV/+ clutch discs wears out quick on the track - a more common problem on GT3 which sees a lot of track time. At that point, it behaves like an open diff - big handicap. After market diff is a cost effective solution for the track. PTV+ should last a while on the Macan unless it sees a lot of track time and/or Porsche is skimming so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[sebis]

All 991S come with PTV. Only the PDK cars can have the electronic version PTV+. My manual says "By using gentle braking interventions that are imperceptible to the driver" I can't feel the braking.

As far as I know PTV isn't going to do a thing for "body roll". Thicker "Anti-roll" or anti-sway bars will as well as stiffer springs might help. A few months ago @sebis said that PASM on its stiffer setting on the Macan was softer than PASM on the softest setting on a 911. I don't have PASM but SPASM and there is very little roll and flick on SPASM in the stiffest setting just makes it tighter. But PTV, no, I seriously doubt it has anything to do with body roll.

Just wanted to re-enforce my previous statement, I drove a 2009 997.2 S with PASM today and in Normal mode was definitely stiffer than my Macan S in Sport+. Last week I drove a base 997.2 without PASM and that suspension was closer to the Macan in Sport+ but it felt differently regardless due to the analog vs. AS feel.

 

[RJMcInnis]

Just wanted to re-enforce my previous statement, I drove a 2009 997.2 S with PASM today and in Normal mode was definitely stiffer than my Macan S in Sport+. Last week I drove a base 997.2 without PASM and that suspension was closer to the Macan in Sport+ but it felt differently regardless due to the analog vs. AS feel.

@sebis Looking to a 911 already? Macan is a Gateway drug...

 

[sebis]

@sebis Looking to a 911 already? Macan is a Gateway drug...

Yes, it is! I can't find myself driving BMWs any longer... on top of driving the Macan I got spoiled by Parameter and Cayenne loaners.

Since I am starting to work from home more, I am keeping only one non-Porsche car, my trusted ML diesel as a beater and for once a week 100 miles round trip commute.