Also near lock date

I am also near lock date and I also have a question regarding the PTV and the value for the 98% everyday driving and not just the 2% aggressive driving.


So far I have gone with the PTV thinking that anything that supports better handling is clearly consistent with why we purchase a Porsche vs Brand X.


I am debating 20" vs 19" wheels because the larger footprint from 20" wheels can be a negative in the rain or snow. They also are more expensive to replace (minor consideration), and may have slightly higher tire noise. The last consideration, and a concern to me, is that it appears the 20" wheels extend out slightly more toward the edge of the tire, which may mean a higher potential for wheel/curb damage.


At this point I am leaning to the 19" Turbo Wheels, PTV, and AS+.

 

I went back and forth on this as well..... and ended up getting it. I can feel the system working at moderate speeds (or at least what I think it is) and with aggressive driving, there is definitely an improvement. I don't think you need to do track days to utilize it (on 100% of the time) or appreciate the benefit. But that is opinion.

I got it for the snowy crappy days here in the Midwest. Since like traction control, its on all the time, I figure it should help on those days when the front just wants to slide. If it helps me stay out of one crash or inevitable ditch..... then it's paid for itself.

On gravel, I really liked the system. Hasn't snowed enough to comment on that style of driving. I'd get it again.

 

I need the tech gurus on the forum (grim, carerraTT, rolltide86, etc) to opine about the influence of PTV+ on winter driving.

My opinion is this. Everything I've read from the track rats on 981 cars is that they do NOT order PTV+. They want mechanical LSD.

You already have AWD. PTV+'s intended use is to help rotate the car.

That said, several owners here have said they can "feel" it working. The only way you can feel it working would to be to drive back to back cars, one with and one without PTV+ to make a judgement call. The only person who might have done this in Panny was @sebis, If anyone has done this in a Macan, they need to speak up.

My initial turbo order did not have PTV+ nor would I order it in the future, and I do live in the snowbelt.

That's my opinion. I would need to hear from owners who have driven identical cars with and without PTV+ to change that opinion - ON snow, not on a track.

I don't know how you can "feel" it working when you don't know how it feels without it.

 

I don't know how you can "feel" it working when you don't know how it feels without it.

You can feel anti-lock brakes, traction control, ESP etc etc work without a double-blind test. Same thing for PTV+. Just like with the other systems you feel that something outside of the normal "mechanical" dynamical envelope is happening. I think the effect in "moderate" driving is negligible, but for those 2% of time when you're having fun it is obvious.

I have not driven the Macan in snow, but on wet slippery roads you can feel the same effect at much lower g. I assume in snow it will be even more obvious. However, I think there will be only a narrow window in which PTV+ would make the difference between understeering off the road and staying safe (obviously narrower than the window in which one can feel it operate). If one wants to drive safe and/or fast in the snow, good snow tires on a standard setup will beat the snot out of AS tires + PTV+ 100 out of 100 times.

[EDIT] What you feel is a yaw moment generate at the rear axle that sets in as the car is about to start understeering, i.e. clearly electronically controlled.

 

@grim

I had the opportunity after the initial launch vehicles (and well after mine was locked) to drive an S with / without PTV. It's subtle, but once you drive them back-to-back you can tell when it helps out. That said, I always say "i think its working" because without a light or more drastic change in direction.....you're not really sure. I don't like to rely on a butt dyno.

Kinda wish the SA had a button to turn it on / off during a test ride.

 

I defer to @TripleZ as he has done exactly what I suggested.

Since the cost is, in Porsche terms a "cheap option", then I would add it in lieu of another low priority item. For example, I would never get the roof fails because NOTHING would be going on my roof and if its not functional, it ain't getting bought.

thanks tripleZ

 

Just get the 20s unless you're at your financial pain point. They're marginally worse in the snow but how many days is it snowing vs not snowing? Even on A/S tires the Macan on 20s is going to be extremely snow-worthy. Just my $0.02- you'll be unsurprised to hear I got AS, PTV+ and the 20" RS Spyder wheels. Couldn't be happier.

 

PTV+ @$1500 is a no brainer option to realize the full potential of a sporty vehicle like the Macan. It won't make a huge difference in normal winter driving given the Macan is already overloaded with a full acronym soup bowl of e-nannies but being able to regulate power down on 1 rear wheel is significant in spirited turn-ins and exit, and on the track. It will also reduce the understeer tendency to make the Macan slightly more neutral, which will make the Macan drive more like a sporty car. You won't experience much of the benefit of the PTV+ unless you are driving Macan at 7/10 or more, and it'll become indispensable beyond that.

The Turbo S and 991 GT3 come with PTV+. Why would you not want it?

 

The Turbo S and 991 GT3 come with PTV+. Why would you not want it?

Because the GT3 is the street version of a track car and the TTS is a toy for the track rats and is useful there? It's an LSD on a RWD vehicle. ALL 911s come with PTV. Why wouldn't you want LSD on RWD. You have AWD. Big difference.

...he told me to put the money towards a good set of tires and call it a day.

I fully expect the Macan, with AWD and shod with good winter tire rubber, to be similarly safe and predictable when navigating snow-packed and/or icy roads, even without PTV+. When the roads are treacherous it is no time to be testing the limits of adhesion, and "having PTV+" may just give you a false sense of security when the right wheel and tire combo would no doubt prove to be much more important.

Exactly. There are three things going on here.

First, I come from a time when every car was front engined, RWD. There were no nannies, no ABS, no tractions control, etc. You slapped snow tires on the rear only and you were good to go. You either learned how to drive on the snow or you didn't go out.

If you are pushing an AWD car to the limit in snow so that you NEED PTV+, then IMO you are driving way, way to fast and dangerously.

Today, there is a boatload of mandated nannies (e.g., ABS) and other non-mandated nannies. Thinking you need PTV because of snow when you already have AWD and snow tires seems like overkill.

Second, safety IS a good thing. If its a safety technology, I am all for it. But this really isn't a safety thing but more intended to be a LSD and to aid in rotation.

Last, PTV+ (electronic) ONLY comes on the PDK cars. The mechanical LSD (PTV) can be had on the manual cars. The other car manuals say "PTV Plus improves steering behavior and steering precision with gentle braking interventions - which are not even noticed by the driver -" The Macan manual does not say that. Maybe some of you can feel it. It's strange that the 911 and Cayenne manual say one thing and the Macan manual something else.

 

Final answer: does PTV+ significantly improve winter driving, at least to the tune of $1600? I'm near the max of what I intend to spend, but could manage it if it will be helpful.

I'll let you know in a month or two. Slippery driving is the only reason I got PTV+.

 

I am in the Chicago area and 1 week from today is my lock date. I had been on the fence regarding the PVT+ as well, but after talking to my SA today I am going to pass. I have know him for years and he is not going to try and sell me to get a higher price sale, when he is not selling Porsches he races them so I trust his opion. He said that if you are traveling down unplowed road it will help as far as slipping, however I don't live in a rural area and have been driving vehicles for years without and never had a problem. I had a budget of $65,000 and came in at $65,015. I was willing to go over budget if this was a must have option, he told me to put the money towards a good set of tires and call it a day.

 

I got PTV for two reasons only...the first is that I tend to take turns rather aggressively in my daily driving, whether it be on surface roads, canyon roads or turning onto highways. Anything that helps me in this regard seems like a benefit. It also feels like one of those Porsche options that would benefit a vehicle with a higher center of gravity, like the Macan.

The second reason is because I felt that it might offer an improvement in overall safety. If it adds to handling in aggressive situations - whether they be by choice or by accident - then it stands to reason that it could be useful from a safety perspective.

I don't live in the snow, but if one is forced to drive much slower in those conditions and doesn't drive all that aggressively even in milder conditions, then there might not be as much benefit from PTV.

 

We bought our Macan "off the lot" and it did not come with PVT+, but for upcoming winter driving - even here in Minnesota - I am not the least bit worried!
First, I've ordered dedicated and Porsche-approved winter tires and wheels, in a "-2" 18" size.
Second, while running true winter tires on all four wheels in every vehicle that my wife and I have ever owned, we've never been involved in an accident, even in the dead of winter, even when driving in blizzard-like treacherous conditions. I fully expect the Macan, with AWD and shod with good winter tire rubber, to be similarly safe and predictable when navigating snow-packed and/or icy roads, even without PTV+. When the roads are treacherous it is no time to be testing the limits of adhesion, and "having PTV+" may just give you a false sense of security when the right wheel and tire combo would no doubt prove to be much more important.

 

I have PTV+, and I agree with you completely.

 

Thanks, @grim.Taking all of the above into account, I think I'll skip the PTV+, and put that cash towards a set of dedicated winter wheels/tires, most likely 18-inch.

Appreciate everyone's thoughtful input. Short of being able to drive various models back-to-back, this advice is the next best thing.

 

I added PTV much later during my wait time for my order to lock. I enjoy scenic drives with hills and curves. The benefits of PTV in that situation is what sold me. While Porsche says that there is an added benefit in slippery and snow conditions, it seems to me that the primary benefit they are selling it with is the improved control in the curves(significantly increases agility and steering precision).

Porsche -"At low and medium vehicle speeds, PTV Plus significantly increases agility and steering precision. At high speeds on the straight, and in fast corners where the wheels threaten to spin, the electronically controlled rear differential lock provides added driving stability. Stability is also improved on road surfaces with varying grip as well as in the wet and snow."

Bottom line - for my style of driving, I thought the price of PTV + was a bargain. Having said that, I would not have purchased if my primary need was snow. I too believe the all wheel drive and snow tires would have adequately answered my needs for driving in the snow.

 

I'm one of the 981 rats and you CANNOT get PTV+ on that car. Just PTV which includes the mechanical Diff. Which I got. And it is great in both the dry and definitely the wet/snow. Get it. PTV+ is even more flexible. I tried it on a C4S last February. The Macan in the wet, off-road, snow or track will do well with it.

As for brake wear from PTV, at 11,400 km and my first service in the Cayman S I still have 70% front and 80% rear left on the pads after 3 DE days.

Now of course you don't NEED PTV+. Then again, you most definitely do not NEED a Porsche. Stick to your budgets and you'll be the richer for it. As the Minnesotan pointed out, you'll still do fine without it, even in the snow. Just put real snow tires on.

 

Well said!

 

Pushed the Macan S hard on Old Topanga Road a few times (very sharp windy curves) on 19" summers, PASM Air, no PTV+. Steering was balanced at all times, no under/oversteer, no tire chirp. Maybe I didn't go fast enough, but you would need to be driving extremely aggressively to need PTV+ on dry pavement though perhaps it comes on before you need it.
Could be useful if you start sliding sideways on ice.

 

Here's the test I used to decide if I wanted PTV on my Cayman S and PTV+ on my Macan. Pull over to the side of the road with a gravel shoulder so that your right wheel is on the gravel and your left on the tarmac. Floor it. After you wash the brown stuff out of your underwear, you'll likely want to order PTV. The PTV cars go straight. The non-PTV cars wiggle their behinds like a hula dancer. So this is the slippery road argument, and it's really the only good (and valid) justification for people who drive mostly on the road.

If you are driving fast enough on a public road that you understeer the Macan, you should re-evaluate your driving. I'm not saying there aren't places one can do this safely, but I'm being responsible here ! Nonetheless, should you find the front end ploughing, then PTV is for you as well. Typically this won't happen except at the track where you can really push, as the Macan is very well balanced in even aggressive road driving.

 

If I had to do it again, I would get PTV+ as I feel body roll when I speed through the turns, probably a little more because of the added weight of the sunroof as many have pointed out. In the above case, I would highly recommend buying new underwear rather than cleaning ****, you can afford it

 

If I had to do it again, I would get PTV+ as I feel body roll when I speed through the turns,

How would a LSD and braking on the inner rear wheel help with body roll?

Sounds to me you want thicker anti-swaybars.

 

If you want to mitigate body roll get AS, on the Sport Plus setting I can't feel any body roll. As far ar PTV+, if you can swing for it I would get it, it makes the CUV feel more like a sport sedan when taking turns.

 

I currently have a PDK 991S which comes standard with PTV+, a 958 Cayenne GTS which comes standard with PASM/AS but without PTV, and a Macan Turbo with PASM/AS and PTV+. All three have their own set of dedicated winter wheels and tires. Here is my experience...

I can feel PTV+ working on a turn at speed on my 991S and Macan. Driving the Cayenne GTS the past two winters with 295/35R21 winter tires, I can say I don't miss PTV+ at all.

Both my Macan Turbo and Cayenne GTS have the same size 21" wheels and tires. PASM/AS on my Macan Turbo is softer than PASM/AS on my Cayenne GTS, which I think is attributed to the lower suspension of GTS cars (approximately 1" lower than regular PASM/AS). Body roll on Macan and Cayenne GTS is about the same when lowered, which is minimal.

I would get PTV+ for the driving pleasure of a Porsche, and a dedicate winter set for winter driving is a must when you have 20" or 21" wheels.

 

I got very few options compared to many on here. PASM, 3 zone, colour centre caps on wheels, LCA, camera with park assist. I opted for those I thought would have real world everyday driving applicability and happily I can say (after almost 6 months of driving - spring, summer and now fall) that I 'chose wisely'. But, everyone is different, some will favour more luxury, comfort or pure performance. It is what I now appreciate about the brand, bespoke gets you an awesome driving machine and if you have lots of cash to splurge or want other options then you can get those and add to what is already a phenomenal foundation. At the end of the day we are all driving a stellar machine. BMW coined it but for me these cars are "Ultimate driving machines". I still look forward to walking out to put the key in the left side and drive off. Can't recall that after 6 months of any other car ownership.

On PTV + (outside of the track, entry onto highways etc) I am sure it will assist if you want to go into corners (with snow on the road) a little faster than if you didn't have it. But for me a set of winter tires and sensibly driving into the corner based on the road conditions will unlikely have me wishing I dropped $$$ for this option.

 

I got PTV+ on a recommendation from my SA for it's contribution during adverse road conditions, which is about 6mths of the year where I live. I must admit that I will not be staying home during the whole winter and will be away for a few months but I will be driving the car as much as possible on my returns home. It seemed like it was one of the better value options and it did include the LSD which I had wanted. I put a lot of options on my Macan and came in around $80k CAD even with 18" wheels. I am anxiously waiting to try out the 18" AS combo in some bad weather with the PTV+

 

My SA said unless I going to bring the car to the track, PTV+ would have little value. Yes, on the margin it could help in adverse weather, but reasonable speed in adverse weather is probably more important.

 

The following video show PTV in action. Note the correction at the hairpin turn and surprise look. This is the rear braking in action and also why some people complain about the rear brakes wearing out faster.

This is not a stock 981BS but with headers, exhaust, plenum, piggyback tune, etc.

 

The following video show PTV in action. Note the correction at the hairpin turn and surprise look. This is the rear braking in action and also why some people complain about the rear brakes wearing out faster.

This is not a stock 981BS but with headers, exhaust, plenum, piggyback tune, etc.

Ohhh, so THAT's why people complain about the rear breaks wearing out faster!!! Sorry, but that's just about the dumbest example ever. If you can even blame that misstep on PTV first of all and second of all, that PTV at work in everyday driving would wear out breaks even remotely to the same degree. If I drove like that all the time, I would expect fast break wear, PTV aside. And even as an extreme overblown example, in everyday driving with PTV at work, additional break wear is probably nominal at best.

 

This is the best example of Torque Vectoring at work that I've come across so far:

Ricardo Torque Vectoring - YouTube

Not exactly the same system as in the Macan, but it gives you a good idea of how it works in general with good visual comparisons.

 

For what it's worth, from Road and Track:

2014 Porsche Macan - First Drive - Road & Track

"Buyers would do well to drop the $1490 on the available Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) rear differential. Combined with Porsche’s rear-biased all-wheel-drive tuning, it all but eliminated understeer. Pile into a corner in a Macan with PTV, feed in throttle, and you can feel the slight initial understeer become oversteer as the rear end starts to wiggle under full throttle. On the street, the dramatic effects of PTV are less noticeable, but we can imagine huge benefits in snowy climes."

 

(Full disclosure: I did not order PTV)

 

My friend called me yesterday and said he test drove a Turbo without PTV+ or SC and loved it but wanted to know if I had them on mine. I told him I do and would love for him to drive it and let me know what he thinks. He drove mine and placed his order today...his build includes both PTV+ and SC. He said it was great without it but clearly better when Driving the car through canyon roads.

 

Similar to this I did test drive of loaded Macan S and base Macan very close to each other (couple days apart) and really felt former to be more capable when pushing on exits. After getting my Macan, I am glad I ordered PTV+. I do all my speeding on exits. That said base Macan is no slouch...