I was interested in the new EV Macan but now feel disappointed after today's reveal. The only impressive announcement was the supposed, potential maximum range. The increased size, weight and high prices have put me off considering it as a replacement for my current GTS.
4ndy
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According to the article shared a few posts above, a GT version of the Macan is coming. I don't want to see the price of that one... I can't imagine a $150k+ Macan, but it seems thats where we're headed. I also wouldn't hold my breath on any wishful thinking of lower prices, I've never seen the msrp of new Porsches go down. One can hope, I suppose.
I think a lot of the frustration coming from this thread is about price/specs of the EV Macan (the straight EV rant is a whole other topic IMO). I go back to my original thought early in this thread - did anyone really think this new EV Macan would be smaller, lighter, and cheaper? If so, then they were really in dreamland.
Porsche has NEVER been about price/value. There are and will always be comparable vehicles that provide either just as much or more bang for the buck on paper. A Porsche, in any variant, is mainly an irrational, but emotional purchase. The EV Macan will be no different. Will it succeed? I wouldn't necessarily bet against Porsche, but I'm not ready to plunk down $ for one just yet. But I can say that for any close to six figure or six figure+ EV.
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Not that Porsche listens to me . . .
For years the ICE Macan was ripe for a GT variant, but I recall an article somewhere in this forum where one of the head gurus at Porsche stated clearly that there will never be a GT Macan variant.
Personally, I think it would be stupid to put the Porsche GT label on an SUV. On the other hand, if Porsche ever did (1) I am certain it would be one bad-a** SUV and (2) they could sell as many as they wanted at just about whatever price they wanted.
Now, after all the ICE Macan GT denial over the years, you are telling me Porsche plans to manufacture an EV Macan GT model??? What??!
This seems absolutely pathetic . . . coming from the perspective of a driving enthusiast. All the stuff @grim and @yrralis1 referenced earlier in the thread with respect to cars and coffee. NA engine and exhaust acoustics, relatively light and nimble handling, sporty/exotic design . . . basically all the stuff that is non-existent in an EV.
Hard pass on EVs . . . and shame on Porsche for even suggesting they will be throwing their coveted GT tag on a Macan EV. Tragic!
AVM
For years the ICE Macan was ripe for a GT variant, but I recall an article somewhere in this forum where one of the head gurus at Porsche stated clearly that there will never be a GT Macan variant.
Personally, I think it would be stupid to put the Porsche GT label on an SUV. On the other hand, if Porsche ever did (1) I am certain it would be one bad-a** SUV and (2) they could sell as many as they wanted at just about whatever price they wanted.
Now, after all the ICE Macan GT denial over the years, you are telling me Porsche plans to manufacture an EV Macan GT model??? What??!
This seems absolutely pathetic . . . coming from the perspective of a driving enthusiast. All the stuff @grim and @yrralis1 referenced earlier in the thread with respect to cars and coffee. NA engine and exhaust acoustics, relatively light and nimble handling, sporty/exotic design . . . basically all the stuff that is non-existent in an EV.
Hard pass on EVs . . . and shame on Porsche for even suggesting they will be throwing their coveted GT tag on a Macan EV. Tragic!
AVM
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It shouldn't be smaller, lighter, and cheaper, but it should be at least much more powerful compared to other EVs. If your so-called Turbo is roughly as fast as a Model Y Performance at twice the price, at the very least you will be ridiculed by the Tesla community. I see blistering acceleration as one of the selling points of a performance EV.
Agree with the price/value sentiment however the market will invariably react to pricing. Others on the forum have said that Taycans are going for 30% off MSRP. That sounds more in line with the luxury EV SUV market.
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I mean, I think it still goes back to price/value - not sure why you believe the rules should change when it's an EV. All things won't be equal for Porsche, ICE or EV. On paper, you get a lot less with a base 911 compared to say an M3 Comp, Corvette, or whatever else people say they cross shop. The reality is, you buy a Porsche because you want a Porsche, not because it's giving you better value on paper. Porsche rarely, if ever, does.
I also don't think any P owner cares about ridicule from the Tesla crowd... at least they shouldn't.
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The rules change because within the EV world, there are other competitive, more-or-equally powerful offerings. There is less to differentiate than ICE (turbo/supercharger/liters/etc.) vs. EV (battery/e-motors).
Porsche has brand name going for them, but as a result of performance first, then design, then luxury. The EV Macan on paper isn't raising the bar on performance/power. Am I wrong? No one sees these as under-powered? Am I the only speed-demon? Is it because it's already faster 0-60 than the ICE equivalent?
The RWD is definitely surprising but might make some sense.
Porsche are generally smart with trim levels and there is an obvious point of different between a petrol base Macan and Macan S that make people jump up, and that is how capable a V6 feels compared to a 4cyl... Yes its superficial sometimes for people who don't need that jump but it still exists as a temptation. In an EV you can create that acceleration and performance gap but it will probably still feel linear and capable unlike a difference between a 4cyl and 6cyl... RWD maybe there big point of difference now vs AWD along with a performance jump to entice people to the brand but then entice them up a trim level.
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No, had no idea about the Cayenne GT . . . do not follow the Cayenne model at all. I am assuming the Cayenne GT is not an EV?
As far as the GT vehicles being 'niche,' well, of course they are . . . and intended to be.
Conversely, EVs are not intended to be niche products, nor are they anywhere close to 'niche' (rare) relative to Porsche GT products . . . EV are, however, niche products compared to ICE products because almost nobody wants them.
So, the Macan EV will end up being niche, but not because Porsche desires that to be the case . . . other than possibly the EV Macan GT.
AVM
A couple of things you guys are discussing.
First, the Macan Turbo PP "technically" is not a trim level. Rather the PP was an "option". Why? I got no idea. I think most people thought the S would come out but instead they went to the short lived .2 version of the car. My suspicious is they expect the second generation car, the EV, to come out in MY20, but the pandemic happened. They have known for a very long time that the emissions fines would destroy the company. But I think a lot of that got pushed back because of the pandemic. Since the Macan EV is the second generation vehicle, I fully expect a Turbo S model and apparently the #2 guy at PAG confirmed it.
Second, AFAIK, the Cayenne GT is NOT a Motorsports car, so don't even talk about it in the same breath as a GT2, GT3, or GT4. You see those numerics after GT? Those are the racing classes. GT2 no longer races but the 3 and 4 DO race.
Andreas Preuninger (AP) runs the GT racing division, ie, motorsports. Those cars are meant to be homologation cars for the Race cars. You can look them up what each one does but generally speaking, the GT3 allows Porsche to run in the WEC GT3 class. Here is an example
newsroom.porsche.com
This is the latest 911 GT3 R (R as in Racing). Its homogolation car is the 992 GT3.
"homologated for the FIA GTE category; homologation basis: Porsche 911 GT3 (992 series)."
AP has EXPLICITLY stated there will NOT be a GT Macan or Cayenne. Quote:
“The credibility of the GT car is based on direct bloodline to the race cars,” he told C/D. “A customer buying a GT3 knows there’s a derivative that’s on track every other weekend in a different race series. ... “If we were to enter the Dakar rally with a Macan or Cayenne—something we have no plans to do—then maybe the Motorsport department would develop that car and bring it to the race. Then I would see a good excuse to make something for the street that is very close,” Preuninger said. “But to just use a badge on a Panamera or Cayenne to make it more attractive, for me, would not be credible. It would only be marketing, I don’t think that’s the right thing to do."
But wait, there is Cayenne Turbo GT, right? But its NOT a motorsports division car that I can tell. It's just another trim level.
www.topgear.com
This Cayenne isn’t a pedigree product of the same Weissach skunkworks that brings you the 911 GT2 and GT3. It’s said to ‘have the blessing’ of the GT department.
What does that mean? It would seem some design came out of Weissach but its not a motorsports vehicle. There is no racing class for SUVs that I know. Here is a 2023 article on the new Cayenne
newsroom.porsche.com
In addition to realigning the drive portfolio, the engineers at the Porsche Development Centre in Weissach made major revisions to the Cayenne’s chassis system.
So when they mention Weissach, that doesn't seem to necessarily mean Motorsports.
newsroom.porsche.com
Every Porsche has the same origin: the Development Centre in Weissach.
If someone has some evidence the Cayenne Turbo GT is a motorsports car, please provide it. Similarly I expect the Macan EV GT to be the same thing, "blessed" but not a motorsports car under AP. There is a HUGE difference between being a vehicle designed as a homologation car and a street production car. Porsche trim levels can confuse anyone. Macan Turbo? They are all Turbos, etc.
First, the Macan Turbo PP "technically" is not a trim level. Rather the PP was an "option". Why? I got no idea. I think most people thought the S would come out but instead they went to the short lived .2 version of the car. My suspicious is they expect the second generation car, the EV, to come out in MY20, but the pandemic happened. They have known for a very long time that the emissions fines would destroy the company. But I think a lot of that got pushed back because of the pandemic. Since the Macan EV is the second generation vehicle, I fully expect a Turbo S model and apparently the #2 guy at PAG confirmed it.
Second, AFAIK, the Cayenne GT is NOT a Motorsports car, so don't even talk about it in the same breath as a GT2, GT3, or GT4. You see those numerics after GT? Those are the racing classes. GT2 no longer races but the 3 and 4 DO race.
Andreas Preuninger (AP) runs the GT racing division, ie, motorsports. Those cars are meant to be homologation cars for the Race cars. You can look them up what each one does but generally speaking, the GT3 allows Porsche to run in the WEC GT3 class. Here is an example
Debut for the newest generation of the Porsche 911 GT3 R
The new Porsche 911 GT3 R will be unveiled to the public at this year’s 24 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps. Compared to its predecessor, the new 911 GT3 R features a larger engine producing up to 565 HP, a more constant aerodynamic performance and an optimized vehicle balance.
This is the latest 911 GT3 R (R as in Racing). Its homogolation car is the 992 GT3.
"homologated for the FIA GTE category; homologation basis: Porsche 911 GT3 (992 series)."
AP has EXPLICITLY stated there will NOT be a GT Macan or Cayenne. Quote:
“The credibility of the GT car is based on direct bloodline to the race cars,” he told C/D. “A customer buying a GT3 knows there’s a derivative that’s on track every other weekend in a different race series. ... “If we were to enter the Dakar rally with a Macan or Cayenne—something we have no plans to do—then maybe the Motorsport department would develop that car and bring it to the race. Then I would see a good excuse to make something for the street that is very close,” Preuninger said. “But to just use a badge on a Panamera or Cayenne to make it more attractive, for me, would not be credible. It would only be marketing, I don’t think that’s the right thing to do."
But wait, there is Cayenne Turbo GT, right? But its NOT a motorsports division car that I can tell. It's just another trim level.
Porsche Cayenne Turbo GT Coupe review: a 631bhp super-SUV with carbon aero Reviews 2023 | Top Gear
A two-tonne 4x4 that needs actual downforce? Purr-lease. Apparently, those funny carbon Shrek ears either side of the roof spoiler – and the 25mm-longer ducktail on the pop-up rear wing – aren’t just visual shorthand for ‘I’ve bought the most expensive non-hybrid Porsche Cayenne’. Apparently...
This Cayenne isn’t a pedigree product of the same Weissach skunkworks that brings you the 911 GT2 and GT3. It’s said to ‘have the blessing’ of the GT department.
What does that mean? It would seem some design came out of Weissach but its not a motorsports vehicle. There is no racing class for SUVs that I know. Here is a 2023 article on the new Cayenne
Testing of the new Porsche Cayenne reaches the home straight
Porsche is meticulously preparing the new Cayenne for its launch. Until then, the prototypes and pre-production vehicles are being subjected to challenging endurance tests to ensure that they meet Porsche’s high quality standards.
In addition to realigning the drive portfolio, the engineers at the Porsche Development Centre in Weissach made major revisions to the Cayenne’s chassis system.
So when they mention Weissach, that doesn't seem to necessarily mean Motorsports.
Development Centre Weissach: the heart of Porsche
Every Porsche has the same origin: the Development Centre in Weissach. Take a glimpse into the secret grounds, which extend to around a hundred hectares.
Every Porsche has the same origin: the Development Centre in Weissach.
If someone has some evidence the Cayenne Turbo GT is a motorsports car, please provide it. Similarly I expect the Macan EV GT to be the same thing, "blessed" but not a motorsports car under AP. There is a HUGE difference between being a vehicle designed as a homologation car and a street production car. Porsche trim levels can confuse anyone. Macan Turbo? They are all Turbos, etc.
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I know I have made my views on EVs clear, but there is something just so wrong about spitting out Porsche and EV in the same sentence.
I also know you know this as a driving enthusiast, but 0-60 is about all EVs have to offer . . . and almost irrelevant when it comes to enjoying, say, a GT4. In fact, going from 0 to jail time in 3-4 seconds - then braking - gets really old really fast.
I have heard more than a few times the Mazda Miata is more enjoyable on the common roadways than a GT4 by many driving enthusiasts.
Anyway, I digress . . . yes, Porsche could go on indefinitely producing great sport cars without all the nefarious legislative agendas. I stand my ground by stating 'drill baby drill' will be here before you know it.
AVM
price is the key factor.
Sure it will be slower per $ spend relative to other EVs but thats the case with ICE too. But the $ of the EV relative to ICE is probably the big issue.
Majority of Macan ICE sales are base/S probably 70-90%.
So if your base EV is like 15K more than an S after options...you cant replace the ICE, but will be an EV novelty. Especially when you consider EV depreciation.
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I'm with you Jmoney.. Electric golf cart.. No engine or exhaust noise.. Maybe fake speaker noise.. $100.000..Really?
Talking with a Porsche dealership sa today about the new EV Macan and he said that they have not taken any orders for either model yet Apparently there is lots of interest and wannabe test drivers....but no actual deposits. They also have a showroom full of new Taycan EVs, some with big discounts off the sticker price.
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Doesn't surprise me at all Andy.. I'm really thinking things over pretty hard before jumping into A Porsche EV.. Would definitely be a second Toy no doubt
Anyone wanting a European focused remarks on the EV might want to read rennteam's take on it. Be aware its mostly high end vehicles, exotics and the like, and 911 centric.
The editors POV is the same I mentioned. Sooner or later there will be a breakthrough in chemistry and the early adopters will be crying, more or less.
This is inevitable. There is no Moore's Law for chemistry or physics, but innovation will occur as EVs move out of the realm of the early adopters into the mainstream, or possible the egg before the chicken, etc. Perhaps Toyota always knew, it is premature.
The editors POV is the same I mentioned. Sooner or later there will be a breakthrough in chemistry and the early adopters will be crying, more or less.
This is inevitable. There is no Moore's Law for chemistry or physics, but innovation will occur as EVs move out of the realm of the early adopters into the mainstream, or possible the egg before the chicken, etc. Perhaps Toyota always knew, it is premature.
Weird about the panoramic roof. Even the much less expensive Tesla model 3 has that feature!
...in German config it is there, roof and transport option section:
...Just learned at rennteam.com, the Porsche Macan Miele Edition has it...
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Public now compares Macan EV with other manufacturer EV SUV like Hyundai Ionic 5N or some Chinese brand, whereas ICE Porsche positioned just another level of vehicle. Price was justified, superiority was granted. It is not, won't happen with EV vehicle. Sad.
This thread was going way OT, sometimes that happens without intentional hijacking. All posts not specific to the OP, that is, Disappointment with the new Macan EV, have been moved to the "Macan EV, EVs, Porsche Future with EVs, rants and random thoughts" thread.
A suggestion for those intent on buying the EV. Don't try to rationalize it or defend your choice. Its your money, do with it as you please. You will not convince anyone to change their mind when no one even owns one yet. Similarly, there is no point in those who oppose buying one to argue against it. Those who are intent on buying one, will do whatever they want with their money, with or without your input.
I suggest, urge, anyone who buys one to post up your delivery in the appropriate section, your specs, etc and once driven, express your opinion on the good, and the bad, in a user review so we can ALL read and see what a member thinks. That is EXACTLY why the user review forum exist, to express your feeling about your car. We have many, many such reviews for the ICE car. Its just a matter of time before the EV reviews start coming in, maybe six month?
In the meantime, if you want to rant in either direction about EVs in general, lets confine that to the Rants thread.
Thanks and carry on here
A suggestion for those intent on buying the EV. Don't try to rationalize it or defend your choice. Its your money, do with it as you please. You will not convince anyone to change their mind when no one even owns one yet. Similarly, there is no point in those who oppose buying one to argue against it. Those who are intent on buying one, will do whatever they want with their money, with or without your input.
I suggest, urge, anyone who buys one to post up your delivery in the appropriate section, your specs, etc and once driven, express your opinion on the good, and the bad, in a user review so we can ALL read and see what a member thinks. That is EXACTLY why the user review forum exist, to express your feeling about your car. We have many, many such reviews for the ICE car. Its just a matter of time before the EV reviews start coming in, maybe six month?
In the meantime, if you want to rant in either direction about EVs in general, lets confine that to the Rants thread.
Thanks and carry on here
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I posted here my best friend that had a Macan before and now has a Cayenne hybrid put down payment to get one of the first Macan EV a few months ago. No, he had no idea how the car would look like when he did that. Tonight we had dinner together and I asked him about the order. He said he decided not to buy the car. I asked why. His response: “It is the ugliest car I ever seen. Porsche really screwed that up.” 🤷🏻♂️
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