Just asking in general who has done what to gain 500, or close to it in the 2.9. That is where I would like to be. The COBB tun has me around 420 to 430 now.
CalvinSam
I would call 4 different people to hear them out . I have no idea how far you even want to go . Back in the early days I recall guys coming to car forums wanting to get as much possible Hp out of their cars . Some were even ready to change the internals and take weight reduction measures . Tuning was huge business and the American tuners at that time were top notch until one day a Turkish company called ES tuning just blew the doors off of everything. I dont think they do Macan . Besides even they dont hold the Texas Mile record . A Ford GT does at 300 MPH for a standing mile . Thats the part I dont get with the SUV mods . The straight line competition is just astounding . I know everyone talks about the Plaid because it is the fastest bone stock but the tuned ICE cars will cream it in competition . Stock they wont .. yet. Any SUV is not even in the running . Just remember one thing ... when one pushes way above the stock number baseline he's really in no mans land and basically is like a test driver .
So here's the phone call list --
1) Flat 6 Motorsports - They not only are a site sponsor but they were extremely helpful and professional in. dealing with my older 911 . They may have something that impresses you .
2) Champion Motorsport - Champion Porsche is an actual high volume dealership ., They have a separate division with is not part of the main dealership but has aftermarket tuning parts . I know that they have exhaust and software for older 911 cars but I would ask them what they have . The advantage here is that if you do a Champion car you can trade it in there too .
3) Sharkwerks - In Northern California there is a place called Sharkwerks . Even though I never purchased anything from them its was mostly because I am all the way across the map in Florida . What impressed me about Alex was the detailed photos of the various builds .
4) Vivid Racing ... Hes another shop from the past in California where they have some very impressive tuning . He did a 2020 S so he may have ideas for the 21 GTS .
So here's the phone call list --
1) Flat 6 Motorsports - They not only are a site sponsor but they were extremely helpful and professional in. dealing with my older 911 . They may have something that impresses you .
2) Champion Motorsport - Champion Porsche is an actual high volume dealership ., They have a separate division with is not part of the main dealership but has aftermarket tuning parts . I know that they have exhaust and software for older 911 cars but I would ask them what they have . The advantage here is that if you do a Champion car you can trade it in there too .
3) Sharkwerks - In Northern California there is a place called Sharkwerks . Even though I never purchased anything from them its was mostly because I am all the way across the map in Florida . What impressed me about Alex was the detailed photos of the various builds .
4) Vivid Racing ... Hes another shop from the past in California where they have some very impressive tuning . He did a 2020 S so he may have ideas for the 21 GTS .
Hi,
Do you have a GIAC tune on a 2022+ S or GTS?
GIAC claims 500hp both for the S and GTS on 93 octane fuel, but I have not been able to get any evidence from anyone, including GIAC.
Do you have a GIAC tune on a 2022+ S or GTS?
GIAC claims 500hp both for the S and GTS on 93 octane fuel, but I have not been able to get any evidence from anyone, including GIAC.
To hit 500whp (bhp means nothing to me), a tune alone won't cut it (even with E85). Fabspeed has already come out with hi-flow catted downpipes (crazy expensive), but I think it would also require at minimum the Flat6 intake, downpipes, upgraded intercoolers (I don't think there are any available for the 2.9T), and a custom tune. Cobb needs to release AccessTuner to allow custom tuning capabilities to maximize the bolt-ons.
Do you want 500whp or bhp? GIAC advertises 500hp as "engine power estimated from wheel dyno tests" which sounds like bhp - especially because they are using Porsche's official HP and TQ figures as their comparison stock figures which are bhp numbers (albeit conservative ones typical of Porsche). In other words, you might be getting 500hp at the engine with that tune, but less at the wheels.
Porsche's advertised flywheel HP numbers are usually underrated like BMW so your starting point involves some guess work even when "dyno" reports are posted which can have a very high degree of variability due to a long list of factors. There are also several different types of testing machines(Mustang, Dynojet, MAHA) which can yield sig different #s.
Unless your engine is removed from the chasis and placed on a pure engine dyno then you will have a flywheel HP # that is an estimation.
A 22/23 GTS should not have much trouble achieving close to a 500 FWHP estimation.
Cobb Dragy #s are 3.5 0-60 and high 11s on a the street which would not be optimized for numbers like a prepped drag strip. That 0-60 metric in a 4400 lb AWD vehicle would need at least 500HP if not more. There are numerous 0-60 and 1/4 mile calculators available on the internet where you can plug in times, weight, drive line factors and come up with a reasonable HP estimate.
Never get hung up on "dyno" numbers as these machines are for tuning purposes. The only way to get an accurate, verifiable, and reproduceable, flywheel HP number is on an engine dyno under very strict standardized conditions.
I enjoy the most inaccurate measuring device which is the "butt dyno" and that tells me my Cobb OTS tune is making a very noticeable difference on my '22 GTS.
Unless your engine is removed from the chasis and placed on a pure engine dyno then you will have a flywheel HP # that is an estimation.
A 22/23 GTS should not have much trouble achieving close to a 500 FWHP estimation.
Cobb Dragy #s are 3.5 0-60 and high 11s on a the street which would not be optimized for numbers like a prepped drag strip. That 0-60 metric in a 4400 lb AWD vehicle would need at least 500HP if not more. There are numerous 0-60 and 1/4 mile calculators available on the internet where you can plug in times, weight, drive line factors and come up with a reasonable HP estimate.
Never get hung up on "dyno" numbers as these machines are for tuning purposes. The only way to get an accurate, verifiable, and reproduceable, flywheel HP number is on an engine dyno under very strict standardized conditions.
I enjoy the most inaccurate measuring device which is the "butt dyno" and that tells me my Cobb OTS tune is making a very noticeable difference on my '22 GTS.
Cobb put down about 415 whp on their 93 tune. Assuming a 20% drivetrain loss, that's roughly 500 bhp.
We plan to develop a turbo kit for the 2.9L engine but we need to do testing. We're hoping to pick one up in the future or find a client who is interested. We think close to 500whp is possible on the 2.9L but needs further testing.
We've made ~450whp on the GTS with just the Cobb OTS, F6 Intake and 200 cell downpipes.
If anyone has interest in volunteering their vehicle, we'd need it for a couple of weeks in Orlando, FL. We have the turbo sizing figured out but need to confirm fueling and torque delivery thresholds.
We've made ~450whp on the GTS with just the Cobb OTS, F6 Intake and 200 cell downpipes.
If anyone has interest in volunteering their vehicle, we'd need it for a couple of weeks in Orlando, FL. We have the turbo sizing figured out but need to confirm fueling and torque delivery thresholds.
Very good discussion @AVM and @dougeefresh ....very in line with my thoughts. COBB AP is on its way. And after reading you I suspect I'll stay there.
Cheers
Cheers
It's really hard to know if GIAC makes more than a Cobb tune or vise versa. First of all, GIAC is giving bhp numbers which to me is isn't very helpful. Notice the note on their dyno graph: *Engine power estimates from wheel dyno tests. Cobb gives whp numbers which is what really matters at the end of the day.
Also, the hp/tq GIAC made was on a specific Macan on their dyno. What Cobb made was on specific Macan on their dyno. It's really not apples to apples. There is variation between cars and dynos.
Also, the hp/tq GIAC made was on a specific Macan on their dyno. What Cobb made was on specific Macan on their dyno. It's really not apples to apples. There is variation between cars and dynos.
Enthusiasts on all these forums get WAY too hung up on dyno numbers . . . and, once available, they then turn their angst toward the legitimacy of the dyno numbers.
I get it, people want some form of confirmation of ‘claimed gains.’ However, these dyno numbers end up preventing people from seeing the forest through the trees.
The butt-dyno is the forest. Does your vehicle pull harder and longer after the tune? If you cannot tell, then dyno numbers to the contrary will never be satisfying.
With the 2.9L V6 my butt-dyno is all the verification required, indicating the COBB tune provides appreciably significant gains. Conversely, I doubt my butt-dyno could differentiate a COBB versus GIAC tune with specific regard for Tq/Hp gains achieved.
AVM
I get it, people want some form of confirmation of ‘claimed gains.’ However, these dyno numbers end up preventing people from seeing the forest through the trees.
The butt-dyno is the forest. Does your vehicle pull harder and longer after the tune? If you cannot tell, then dyno numbers to the contrary will never be satisfying.
With the 2.9L V6 my butt-dyno is all the verification required, indicating the COBB tune provides appreciably significant gains. Conversely, I doubt my butt-dyno could differentiate a COBB versus GIAC tune with specific regard for Tq/Hp gains achieved.
AVM
I’ve been searching for info in the GIAC tune but have come up with very few reviews and real world tests. I’ve reached out to APR twice now, hoping that they’re getting closer to dropping a tune for the 22+ Macan S / GTS. They said that it’s a new ECU and they need more time. APR would usually be my go-to tune for any car I own at the time and that APR supports. I have had many tunes for other cars makes that APR does not work with. I’ve had success and failures with other brands. APR is simply consistent! They research the car, reliability, max power potential without excessive premature wear, and they make it drivable (usually follows a similar torque / power pattern to the OEM, but exaggerated).
My first reluctance to the GIAC tune is that they were the first to market for our cars. Not including piggyback tunes.
GIAC is a reputable brand that’s been around… Problem is, when they are able to access the ECU waaaay before anyone has, it makes me skeptical. Also, their figures also make me skeptical. We’ve had the car for over a year and I’m a few months away from buying out the lease and purchasing the car for my wife. Cobb is posting figures that I feel are low for this power plant. If you look up other tunes for for a 21 Macan GTS or an Audi RS5, you see much more power potential than Cobbs figures. I am going to attempt to reach out to M-Engineering and see if they are willing to play around with this platform. I’m impressed with what they’re putting out for the 992 and plan to go that route when my T build arrives.
In the meantime, if anyone here has another ECU tune for this platform or if you have further information on GIAC, I would be very grateful in learning more.
My first reluctance to the GIAC tune is that they were the first to market for our cars. Not including piggyback tunes.
GIAC is a reputable brand that’s been around… Problem is, when they are able to access the ECU waaaay before anyone has, it makes me skeptical. Also, their figures also make me skeptical. We’ve had the car for over a year and I’m a few months away from buying out the lease and purchasing the car for my wife. Cobb is posting figures that I feel are low for this power plant. If you look up other tunes for for a 21 Macan GTS or an Audi RS5, you see much more power potential than Cobbs figures. I am going to attempt to reach out to M-Engineering and see if they are willing to play around with this platform. I’m impressed with what they’re putting out for the 992 and plan to go that route when my T build arrives.
In the meantime, if anyone here has another ECU tune for this platform or if you have further information on GIAC, I would be very grateful in learning more.
who knows the exact percentage of drivetrain loss from brake/crank to wheel HP?
I have a feeling that 415 at the wheels doesn't quite equate to 500+ crank HP with drive train loss -- maybe a little bit less than 500.
375 crank measured against 359whp = roughly a 15HP loss, which is around roughly 4-5% loss. Yes we know porsche's numbers are a bit conservative, but if we don't know roughly how much loss there is in drivetrain conversion, it's hard to say. Let's say it's even at a std 20% loss -> at 415 + 20% it's at 498crank HP. With dual clutch and awd... it's a bit of a mystery IMHO.
usually AWD drive train loss is around 15-18% on average. rwd only is around 20-22% and fwd it's 12-15%.
we can probably guestimate, but dunno if that makes us look better or worse =P
I have a feeling that 415 at the wheels doesn't quite equate to 500+ crank HP with drive train loss -- maybe a little bit less than 500.
375 crank measured against 359whp = roughly a 15HP loss, which is around roughly 4-5% loss. Yes we know porsche's numbers are a bit conservative, but if we don't know roughly how much loss there is in drivetrain conversion, it's hard to say. Let's say it's even at a std 20% loss -> at 415 + 20% it's at 498crank HP. With dual clutch and awd... it's a bit of a mystery IMHO.
usually AWD drive train loss is around 15-18% on average. rwd only is around 20-22% and fwd it's 12-15%.
we can probably guestimate, but dunno if that makes us look better or worse =P
You are right. Nobody knows the actual drivetrain losses and it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day since all that matters is what makes it to the wheels. AWD drivetrain losses is higher than RWD though. More moving parts means higher friction.
We should have our first upgraded turbo 95B.2/95B.3 on the dyno later this week. Car feels strong, I'm hoping for 470-490whp. It would be nice to get this closer to 600HP at the crank. We've found the downpipes make a big difference but they introduce a raspy mechanical buzzy sound that I don't think too many folks would be happy with. We'll be testing with stock downpipes. More info and analysis coming soon!
Guys, if you can pull off those numbers without modifying the down pipes and do so in a reliable way, I might say the risk to the warranty might be worth taking 😁
Also - with the Cobb tune, if we backup the stock ECU and revert back to it prior to dealer service, can the Porsche Gods still see breadcrumbs?
I can confirm at the dealer level, even with the tune installed, they can't see any evidence on their PIWIS tester. Most dealers don't care. I suppose if you had a reason for a powertrain warranty claim, perhaps they would care but certainly a risk worth taking IMO. I always tell folks to weigh their own risk appetite. It's very subjective. There is no wrong or right answer.
I've never been one to hide anything personally, I don't believe others should bare the consequences of my decisions. That being said, US consumers have very strong rights, Porsche would need to prove an aftermarket part caused a failure to deny a claim. We still haven't heard or seen this happen outside of the transfer cases which Porsche acknowledged an issue with and extended the replacement warranty. I believe the concern to be overblown but that's just my opinion.
I've never been one to hide anything personally, I don't believe others should bare the consequences of my decisions. That being said, US consumers have very strong rights, Porsche would need to prove an aftermarket part caused a failure to deny a claim. We still haven't heard or seen this happen outside of the transfer cases which Porsche acknowledged an issue with and extended the replacement warranty. I believe the concern to be overblown but that's just my opinion.
I understood you weren’t talking about the 2.9 engine so I wondered why you would think there would be so little difference in the S and GTS 2.9. I haven’t driven the new GTS for comparison. It’s not so much the numbers but the seat of the pants feeling that might be a tad more rewarding.
That said, I really don’t have meaningful opportunities to run my S the way it wants to be run, but in rare moments I can temporarily put the petal to the metal, I think the more rush - the better. That moment would be so rare that I didn’t buy a GTS but it’s ALMOST not worth the investment, or at least thinking about the possibility of getting a boost from Flat6.
At my age, and given my 50 year marriage is very important to me, I find an adrenaline rush a little harder to achieve. Maybe I’m just dreaming but……….what the heck…….the anticipation alone is enjoyable.
I have yet to post a proper review and hope to take the time to put one together over the following months. We ordered a 22 Macan S for my wife and took delivery over a year ago. I had a bunch of basic preventative (PPF, Ceramic exterior & interior, Crystalline tint, etc…) products installed before delivery. We ordered several of the sport options from the factory (Sport Chrono, air suspension, etc…). I also had a few suspension and esthetics tidbits applied before delivery (lowering links, spacers, powder coated wheels, black exhaust tips, etc…).
I’ve been waiting for an APR tune to drop for that car, since day one. I called them and spoke with them on few occasions.
Anyway, now I’m looking for a simple exhaust setup that will get rid of the OEM muffler, add a bit more sound, maybe small resonators included to reduce any potential drone. Plus, I have a few light projects on the other cars and inbound unit to occupy my time and wallet, so I’m not looking for the prefect (expensive) exhaust. It has to be affordable…
You’re not reading this for my needs in an exhaust. You’re most likely reading this because I had GMG install a GIAC 91 octane tune on my wife’s Macan S.
It is brilliant! They did a very good job in power delivery and overall power. I’ve modified numerous cars, so I’m very familiar with tuned cars. The drivability is definitely an OEM + feel in normal (sedate) driving situations.
In spirited driving conditions, the car is much more responsive, legitimately quick, and more abrupt (think: more rude and a bit more abrasive) driving characteristics.
The boost is much more noticeable, so it does amplify the turbo lag a bit more than stock. That’s to be expected when you’re adding a healthy amount of power through boost.
I was VERY skeptical about the advertised power increase from GIAC, hence why I was waiting for APR. I was wrong!
it is absolutely noticeable and I believe from a roll, it can keep up with my tuned 718 GTS 2.5 with a manual transmission. From a launch, the Macan would definitely beat me and I am a well versed manual driver. I believe that because the 718 is a manual and not a PDK is the reason why the Macan feels quicker. Disclaimer: I have yet to actually pit them against each other, with the exception of a few times that my wife pulled up next
to me when I was in the 718. That doesn’t count though, because she doesn’t feel comfortable flooring it after the newfound power post tune.
By the way, the launch control with the traction/stability turned off is absolutely silly in a car this high off the ground!
If you’re an enthusiast and you’re on the fence, it’s absolutely worth it!
I’ve been waiting for an APR tune to drop for that car, since day one. I called them and spoke with them on few occasions.
Anyway, now I’m looking for a simple exhaust setup that will get rid of the OEM muffler, add a bit more sound, maybe small resonators included to reduce any potential drone. Plus, I have a few light projects on the other cars and inbound unit to occupy my time and wallet, so I’m not looking for the prefect (expensive) exhaust. It has to be affordable…
You’re not reading this for my needs in an exhaust. You’re most likely reading this because I had GMG install a GIAC 91 octane tune on my wife’s Macan S.
It is brilliant! They did a very good job in power delivery and overall power. I’ve modified numerous cars, so I’m very familiar with tuned cars. The drivability is definitely an OEM + feel in normal (sedate) driving situations.
In spirited driving conditions, the car is much more responsive, legitimately quick, and more abrupt (think: more rude and a bit more abrasive) driving characteristics.
The boost is much more noticeable, so it does amplify the turbo lag a bit more than stock. That’s to be expected when you’re adding a healthy amount of power through boost.
I was VERY skeptical about the advertised power increase from GIAC, hence why I was waiting for APR. I was wrong!
it is absolutely noticeable and I believe from a roll, it can keep up with my tuned 718 GTS 2.5 with a manual transmission. From a launch, the Macan would definitely beat me and I am a well versed manual driver. I believe that because the 718 is a manual and not a PDK is the reason why the Macan feels quicker. Disclaimer: I have yet to actually pit them against each other, with the exception of a few times that my wife pulled up next
to me when I was in the 718. That doesn’t count though, because she doesn’t feel comfortable flooring it after the newfound power post tune.
By the way, the launch control with the traction/stability turned off is absolutely silly in a car this high off the ground!
If you’re an enthusiast and you’re on the fence, it’s absolutely worth it!
I went with the GIAC tune on my '23 S. It feels like close to 500hp based on my experience with my other previous vehicles (highly modded 2016 Audi S4). I'll get a Dragy done on it at some point.
Got it through Porsche dealer. Warranty still valid.
Got it through Porsche dealer. Warranty still valid.
Finally a "real world experience" that can provide us some input!
How does the car "feel" after the tune?...any usability issue worth to mention?
I have the same car as you, cannot use Accesport (not an USA version car/ECU), and have not gone forward with GIAC because I don't know if it still will be a comfortable daily driver.
Sorry for the late reply.
So I called GIAC and Garrett the president called me back and almost talked my head off explaining what they do. (FYI, he mentioned people in Cali do a little E85 blending to get their 91 octane a little peppier. Thus the GIAC tune has some tolerance to E85 blending. I digress)
He recommended a Porsche dealership in my Houston area that he uses all of the time. That dealer charged me $2200-ish for install and because they put it on they insist all mods they perform do not void my warranty. It transforms the car.
"What dealer?" Call GIAC. I'm sure they can find a Porche dealer in your area. Sorry not to be 100% forthcoming, but I don't think dealers can broadcast "Come turn your Macan S into a GTS killer for $2K." The powers that be might not be too happy.
So I called GIAC and Garrett the president called me back and almost talked my head off explaining what they do. (FYI, he mentioned people in Cali do a little E85 blending to get their 91 octane a little peppier. Thus the GIAC tune has some tolerance to E85 blending. I digress)
He recommended a Porsche dealership in my Houston area that he uses all of the time. That dealer charged me $2200-ish for install and because they put it on they insist all mods they perform do not void my warranty. It transforms the car.
"What dealer?" Call GIAC. I'm sure they can find a Porche dealer in your area. Sorry not to be 100% forthcoming, but I don't think dealers can broadcast "Come turn your Macan S into a GTS killer for $2K." The powers that be might not be too happy.
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