[ABusLux]

Look at the configurator. Identical options are priced higher on the base Macan . RS wheels are 3300 !!! They are 1650 on an S and free on a GTS . It's the same wheel !!!

Of course, but to add the larger rims on a base Macan Porsche is removing cheaper rims than the ones they remove from a Macan S. Plus other factors that make options more expensive than standard features that act as multipliers of that price difference.

 

[yrralis1]

Of course, but to add the larger rims on a base Macan Porsche is removing cheaper rims than the ones they remove from a Macan S. Plus other factors that make options more expensive than standard features that act as multipliers of that price difference.

This is not fully accurate . An RS wheel is free on a GTS but costs 1250 on a Turbo so upgrading even has inconsistencies . We are not talking about expensive lightweight forged or magnesium wheels . We are talking about inexpensive cast wheels with huge price gaps and we havent even gotten into the other options .

The sprockets are the same to fit a wheel. The hinges are the same to place a seat . The car body is the same and none of the models are cheap (including the base) . Leather is leather , cast is cast and a an exhaust is an exhaust. But they are not all equally priced .

BTW .. this is part of what drew my friend to an Sq5
The Macan pricing is hugely staggered and the lower the trim the more it appears manipulated like a magician performing a card trick and bringing his own deck of cards.

 

[windblow]

Of course, but to add the larger rims on a base Macan Porsche is removing cheaper rims than the ones they remove from a Macan S. Plus other factors that make options more expensive than standard features that act as multipliers of that price difference.

This is very true. Every base Macan buyers know this is the case. Otherwise, those options would have never been bought. Base Macans are no different than base Carreras. It's a two way street - one can look at it from the top down and think the base cars don't deserve to be built because the performance are not comparable or options are too expensive, etc... But the bottom up point of view is even more logical for both Porsche and its customers - Porsche sells more cars and customers have more buying options. Remember, options are just that - options. You can buy the base cars with or without some of the options, or you can buy the whole nine yards. My 991.1 TTS has all the available options and twice the power/performance (with a little help from COBB) of a base 991.2, but at over $200K, is for sure a very low volume model. How can Porsche keep making it for more than 50 years? Everyone knows the answer to that - high volume base cars funding. The funny thing is my base 991.2 can be had for about half the cost of the TTS and I find it just as much enjoyable.

 

[yrralis1]

Remember, options are just that - options. You can buy the base cars with or without some of the options, or you can buy the whole nine yards.

1) Practically everything on a base Macan is an option. Completely stripped it will, still drive but no one will want to drive it and it still is expensive . (no luxury comforts, no technology amenities, no performance gear , not even a decent radio .. and its still 47500 plus desitnation ).

2) The base 911 doesn't come as bare as the base Macan and the 991.1 Turbo S comes with more gear than a Performance package Turbo Macan . These 911 Vs Macan pricing scale are apples to oranges vehicle comparisons .

3) Look at your last Macan Turbo option list and build a base Macan to the exact same spec .Include all the items which are standard on a Turbo (but are options on the base). Then do a proportion analysis of option cost as it relates to MSRP . The difference will be huge .

Factor in service (which costs the same on less car), or maintenance (like tires) .

Then evaluate resale on an ultra high spec base (to match your Turbo ) given identical region and timeline .

I speculate it will cost more to own less with the Macan (not the 911 BTW.).

4) Lastly -- i agree with you on the 911 enjoyment .

 

[ABusLux]

This is not fully accurate . An RS wheel is free on a GTS but costs 1250 on a Turbo so upgrading even has inconsistencies .

That's even less accurate; the standard rims of the GTS are not "free"; they are embedded in the price of the GTS, whereas the Macan Turbo rims that are standard on the Turbo are embedded in the price of the Turbo, possibly with similar gross margins and therefore at a lower selling price. The fact that it is not charged separately for a particualr model doesn't mean it's free for that model.

Obviously optioning a base to the trim level of a Turbo is goign to be very expensive; that's the very nature of the standard + option model, but that's not just Porsche, and that's Definitely not just happening in the car industry.

 

[Maitre_Absolut]

Ok enough about the incremental price inconsistencies for macan options lol

Back to the topics at hand, has no one else mentioned the major difference in transmission between the two cars?

The SQ5 uses a torque converting auto, vs PDK for the macan. Even the new S4 uses a torque converter for now, with a proper DSG to come in the near future once they sort out the torque requirements.

I absolutely hated the ZF 8sp in my wifes 2013 Q5....would never consider it on one of my cars

 

[fincher]

Yes. A fellow member here and Porsche diehard (who happens to own the exact same Touareg TDI as I), confided to me that the PDK is a big part of the Porsche experience, no matter the trim.


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[maxdbunny]

Ok enough about the incremental price inconsistencies for macan options lol

Back to the topics at hand, has no one else mentioned the major difference in transmission between the two cars?

The SQ5 uses a torque converting auto, vs PDK for the macan. Even the new S4 uses a torque converter for now, with a proper DSG to come in the near future once they sort out the torque requirements.

I absolutely hated the ZF 8sp in my wifes 2013 Q5....would never consider it on one of my cars

What is interesting is in the Audi A model cars, they switched from tiptronic to dual clutch, and the other way around for the S models because apparently "American's like smooth pull aways at lights" I like that Audi just made that assumption...they also said they had to do it because of the change in torque. That decision while I am sure is sound, seemed a little weird to me...

 

[Mark's M]

Ok enough about the incremental price inconsistencies for macan options lol

Back to the topics at hand, has no one else mentioned the major difference in transmission between the two cars?

The SQ5 uses a torque converting auto, vs PDK for the macan. Even the new S4 uses a torque converter for now, with a proper DSG to come in the near future once they sort out the torque requirements.

I absolutely hated the ZF 8sp in my wifes 2013 Q5....would never consider it on one of my cars

Interesting comments. BMW's ZF 8 speeds are fantastic IMO, love it in the X5/6 M twins. I love my current DCT...on track and in Europe when i was there as we were "all out" quite a bit. Here...not so much. The PDK during my test drives of the Macan was brilliant by comparison and i'm soooo looking forward to it.

 

[Maitre_Absolut]

Really? I assumed DCT to be on par with DSG and PDK. Ive also heard good things about the BMW ZF in the 335i/340i making it comparable to the S4.

Our Q5 had the 2.0T which probably contributed to making the tranny look bad. I guess its also exaggerated when you have a DSG at the same time which I find brilliant.

I've never driven the Macan S/GTS so I'm glad you like it over the DCT!

 

[Mark's M]

Really? I assumed DCT to be on par with DSG and PDK. Ive also heard good things about the BMW ZF in the 335i/340i making it comparable to the S4.

Our Q5 had the 2.0T which probably contributed to making the tranny look bad. I guess its also exaggerated when you have a DSG at the same time which I find brilliant.

I've never driven the Macan S/GTS so I'm glad you like it over the DCT!

Yeah really...unfortunately. My last M3 was a 6MT and it's what i should have done with my current. Like i said, on track and in Europe where our BMW sponsored tour was led by one of the F8x engineers ( i.e. it was balls to the wall almost every day lol) it was brilliant. The PDK in my test drives was brilliant ALL AROUND, probably one of the more exciting perks that I'm looking forward to. On a totally unrelated note, I have to give the virtual BMW lady who reads my texts kudos....she pronounces " Maitre Absolute" perfectly lol.

 

[yrralis1]

That's even less accurate; the standard rims of the GTS are not "free"; they are embedded in the price of the GTS, whereas the Macan Turbo rims that are standard on the Turbo are embedded in the price of the Turbo, possibly with similar gross margins and therefore at a lower selling price. The fact that it is not charged separately for a particualr model doesn't mean it's free for that model.

Obviously optioning a base to the trim level of a Turbo is goign to be very expensive; that's the very nature of the standard + option model, but that's not just Porsche, and that's Definitely not just happening in the car industry.

Using @windblow terminology of "ground up " build the MSRP on a car like this becomes diluted unless everything was included . It's very nice when Porsche gets to pick the "ground" level and change it from model to model trim level . When a person takes the wheel off the base Macan and places an RS he not only pays for it when he buys the car . He pays for it in loss when he goes to sell it .

If all cars of a specific trim were identical like with Honda (LX or EX are each option specific) then MSRP has more meaning.
I've seen Macan cars where the option list costs more than the MSRP .

And what of the GTS where Porsche bundles a package .. the more the car has the bundle the more clarity the value can become as each becomes more uniform . The car can still depreciate (like a 911 turbo S) but the used market can digest it easier .

The thing which shocks me is how complacent you guys are with this . I can at least accept when i am over paying for something simply beacause no one else can make it as good . I guess that's how Porsche can make 130K cars and still give standard leather when everyone else at that price level gives full leather.

Lastly -- I looked up @Keniblaine statistic of the "40 percent" and it appears to be accurate . Another statistic not mentioned was that 80 percent of that 40 percent are new to the brand . They never owned a Porsche so they dont know what its like yet to get screwed when they sell one with an option list the size of a football field .

In the past Porsche played with this option listings but with this Macan they have really gone over the top . At least with the Macan S the car is still a good car despite the crazy option price but with the base it's just a total zero (in my not so humble opinion ) and it will cost a lot to buy it .

 

[yrralis1]

Yes. A fellow member here and Porsche diehard (who happens to own the exact same Touareg TDI as I), confided to me that the PDK is a big part of the Porsche experience, no matter the trim.


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I agree with you on this . PDK was the reason I traded in my Cayenne years ago and ordered the Macan in the first place .

 

[fincher]

@ yrralis1 Why do you care so much about the Base and the options? Why so caught up in resale value? Do you flip rides every two years or less?

What about deviated stitching? Think that has any monetary resale value? Whitewashed oak trim? A $6k custom color has resale value? Options have value to the buyer who chooses them. Same goes for RS wheels if it's not standard to the trim. A lot of the options are flat-out silly and some are not.

I guess by your thinking, if the option is not standard to the specific trim, it's a waste of money.

Value need not be tied to dollar amount or resale. Enjoyment has value, too.


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[yrralis1]

@ yrralis1 Why do you care so much about the Base and the options? Why so caught up in resale value? Do you flip rides every two years or less?

What about deviated stitching? Think that has any monetary resale value? Whitewashed oak trim? A $6k custom color has resale value? Options have value to the buyer who chooses them. Same goes for RS wheels if it's not standard to the trim. A lot of the options are flat-out silly and some are not.

I guess by your thinking, if the option is not standard to the specific trim, it's a waste of money.

Value need not be tied to dollar amount or resale. Enjoyment has value, too.


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This section of the forum is for discussing the Macan Vs the competition . My friend who ordered the Sq5 did drive both the base and GTS Macan . An Sq5 is somewhere in between with price .

Discussing the competition means all aspects of the cars are fair game .

Buying a car is not a track competition or a vehicle beauty pageant . So why not look at everything on a forum where people make commitments to these cars and place it in the section intended for it.

I already have a Macan . I have said I would not buy an Sq5 , nor a base Macan , nor an S. I even said in my first post "I'd take the GTS" but this thread isnt about me . It's about what makes Audi a new rival and a worthy one at those price levels .

 

[fincher]

Nice deflection. You've written about value and Base, etc. elsewhere on the forum, same rant, different thread. I enjoy the discussion... truly... but I give up!


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[jimithing]

Really? I assumed DCT to be on par with DSG and PDK. Ive also heard good things about the BMW ZF in the 335i/340i making it comparable to the S4.

Our Q5 had the 2.0T which probably contributed to making the tranny look bad. I guess its also exaggerated when you have a DSG at the same time which I find brilliant.

I've never driven the Macan S/GTS so I'm glad you like it over the DCT!

The regular BMW autos sourced from ZF are fantastic. For some reason BMW had struggled to with usability on DCTs. PDK had a lot of tricks at low speed to make it behave as close as possible to what people expect from any auto.

The weird thing is that ZF sources a ton of different transmissions for different automakers. I guess some of the design elements are proprietary to Porsche rather than ZF or are purely software-related (how the computer controls the clutch engagement creaking into a garage, for example).

 

[OzPorsche]

You guys are so lucky to have the Porsche priced so competitively and in some cases cheaper than the SQ5.

I'm in the market and wanting delivery in the next 6-8 months and the Porsche is what I long for. SQ5 is number two. But spec of spec there is about a $25000 difference between the Porsche and Audi.

 

[dawiz4u]

Just comparing specs, the new SQ5's curb weight is almost 300 lbs heavier than the Macan S (4398 vs 4112). It is also 2 inches taller. This will probably have a significant effect on the handling and body roll. Has anyone test driven one yet?

 

[Macanuck]

Just comparing specs, the new SQ5's curb weight is almost 300 lbs heavier than the Macan S (4398 vs 4112). It is also 2 inches taller. This will probably have a significant effect on the handling and body roll. Has anyone test driven one yet?

Well, the SQ5 may (see below) handle better than the 2018 Q5 I recently drove during a launch event at our Audi dealer. And the Q5 was pretty amazing. Very little roll, but it did have numb steering still compared to the Macan. As for the 2" height difference, it doesn't matter all that much. It is no worse than a Macan with a sunroof that adds a fair amount of weight up top. A Macan S with sunroof and air suspension, PTV+, premium package is 4351 lbs weighed by C&D. Given that the SQ5 comes with loads of standard stuff, it's not likely much of a weight difference between a well configured Macan S and a SQ5.

The SQ5 will be a vehicle in the typical Audi idiom. Fast, tech heavy, numb steering, well put together.

That being said, the regular Q5 is 4045 lbs. Wonder why the SQ5 is so much heavier? That's bound to be a detriment to handling, all else being equal.