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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I have a 2011 X3 35i and its pretty well loaded and came in at around 54K MSRP back in 2010. If I load the Macan S with the same technology and options I'm up in the $70K range MSRP.

No question to me the Porsche is a little faster, more powerful and better looking but there is a big premium for roughly the same car function wise.

Not to mention the Porsche is built on the 6 yr. old Audi Q5 platform which is due for an update in 2016.

Yeah I know neither of these cars are value statements, but wholly cow.
 

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Ok, I have a 2011 X3 35i and its pretty well loaded and came in at around 54K MSRP back in 2010. If I load the Macan S with the same technology and options I'm up in the $70K range MSRP.

No question to me the Porsche is a little faster, more powerful and better looking but there is a big premium for roughly the same car function wise.

Not to mention the Porsche is built on the 6 yr. old Audi Q5 platform which is due for an update in 2016.

Yeah I know neither of these cars are value statements, but wholly cow.
6 year old q5 platform stripped and re engineered by Porsche just last week. Do you compare an M3 to a 911? x3 and Macan may play the same game but its in two different leagues ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
6 year old q5 platform stripped and re engineered by Porsche just last week. Do you compare an M3 to a 911? x3 and Macan may play the same game but its in two different leagues ;)

Yeah, I hear you, Porsche is in a completely different league but if you take the perception of the badge away Porsche is more costly and in some cases less technologically advanced. For example, where are the all LED head lamps?

People compare the performance of M3s and 911s all the time but an M3 is not a 911. There is a completely different fascination with Porsche.

Believe me I want a Macan maybe as much as you or anyone on this forum, I'm just stating a fact.
 

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As noted above, the Macan is ~33% Q5. The engine, transmission, AWD system, suspension, etc, etc are exclusive to the Macan.

Your X3 has the N55 turbo motor, which is an evolution of the N54 that's been around since 2006. The interior is an evolution of the E9x interior which has also been around since 2006. The BMW uses an 8 speed conventional automatic instead of a dual clutch transmission like the PDK.You can't get air suspension on the X3 at all.

I've driven the X5 a few times, and have had a Cayenne on track. I've also owned the first gen X3, as well as an E92 335is and currently an E91 328i wagon, which the Macan will replace next spring. If the difference in driving dynamics between the Cayenne and X5 holds true for the Macan vs X3, there will really be no comparing the two vehicles from an enthusiasts perspective. If you're more interested in LED headlights and iDrive, or are truly concerned about value per dollar, maybe the BMW is better suited for your needs. But then again, you could get a Forester or RAV4 and do the same stuff as an X3... So how do you justify the X3? ;-)
 

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Not to mention the Porsche is built on the 6 yr. old Audi Q5 platform which is due for an update in 2016.
The dealer told me the Macan is based on the upcoming Q5 platform, not the existing one.

As whoosh puts it, you can rationalise that the X3 is better value for money, the CX-5 is even better value for money, then the RAV4, Forester, Sportage, ix35 etc etc. Buy the car that you want to be happy owning and driving for the next few years, not the one that comes out on top in a spreadsheet.

Flirting with the idea of Porsche ownership is a good excuse to throw rational thinking out the door. I figure if I can't do it now, when will I ever be able to? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Geez you guys, no need for all this rationalization. BMW and Porsches even more, are things we buy because we want them not because they pencil out
as the perfect value. They offer a mix of performancece and this elixir of brand-I get that.

I was just looking at some of the equipment and how similar the two cars were.


I can't wait to drive the macan and sure, I will compare them.

Like I wrote before, the Macan has the beauty and the fascination
The others do not.

That said + just to be clear; the latest x3 is based on the F chassis (F25) which it shares with the latest 3 series (F30) not the previous e90 3 series -I had one of those. The previous first generation x3 (E83)was based on the older E46 chassis. And, I had one of those as well. The new x3 is much better than the first generation but I think BMW puts much more love into the 3 series than they do the x3.


Finally I hope the Macan is based on the future q5 chassis
but I'm not sure I'd believe it as fact if it a dealer was my only source.
 

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That said + just to be clear; the latest x3 is based on the F chassis (F25) which it shares with the latest 3 series (F30) not the previous e90 3 series -I had one of those. The previous first generation x3 (E83)was based on the older E46 chassis. And, I had one of those as well. The new x3 is much better than the first generation but I think BMW puts much more love into the 3 series than they do the x3.


Finally I hope the Macan is based on the future q5 chassis
but I'm not sure I'd believe it as fact if it a dealer was my only source.
The E46 roots of the E83 X1 really bothered me in ours, but it was the wife's car and she was happy with it, so life was good. I'm glad the current X1 is based on the F30 - they could have re-heated an E91 architecture as the foundation instead. In the case of the Macan vs Q5, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the shared components outside of the floor pan, gas tank, some switches, etc, etc, which are shared. And I agree with your suspicion of the claim about Macan using the future Q5 chassis. Not that it would really matter to me anyway given that the new platform will likely be larger than the current one, which defeats the purpose of the Macan to begin with.

With the exception of a few performance options like Sport Chrono and PASM, the philosophy at Porsche is to give you a sports car (relatively speaking in the case of the Macan) of high quality for the base price. If the buyer wishes to load up the options (i.e. Add weight) then they can for a hefty charge. BMW has always represented a little more of a value proposition, relative to Porsche anyway. But then the BMWs have always been more aligned as all around cars, rather than focused sports cars.

I'm not sure whether the purist Porsche philosophy carries over very well into the crossover segment. At the reveal in LA, one of the Porsche execs mentioned an unofficial Nurburgring time for a Macan that put it on par with a 987.2 Cayman S. So the car seems to have the chops to make it worthy of the badge, but who is going to consider these things when shopping a crossover? Or, as Tank mentions, will it be about trick headlights and the number of cup holders?
 

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I've driven a 2013 X3 for about 400 miles, part freeway, part mountain roads, and it is a very nice car. Comparing it to what Porsche has done with the Macan is purely academic at this point since none of us have seen or driven a real one yet, but in my experience (owning 911s, 914s, 356, Cayenne, and GT3 as well as an M5 and several "normal" bummers) the comparison is like apples to oranges. The Macan will be an entirely different machine. For some of us, there really isn't any substitute.
 

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At the reveal in LA, one of the Porsche execs mentioned an unofficial Nurburgring time for a Macan that put it on par with a 987.2 Cayman S.
Do you have a source for this ? Was it the Turbo ? I'm quite interested to see 'ring times for both models, i think it will speak volumes and maybe address the haters a little bit. ;)
 

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Do you have a source for this ? Was it the Turbo ? I'm quite interested to see 'ring times for both models, i think it will speak volumes and maybe address the haters a little bit. ;)
It's a passing comment in one of the launch videos, but it's not an official lap time. I'll see if I can find and post it.
 

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I agree that the X3 is priced less than the Macan, but it all depends what you are looking for in a compact SUV.

the pricing of a 2010 X3 is not necessarily fair to compare against a 2014 Macan. There have been a few years of inflation and advances in technology and offered options.

I am personally comparing the 2 as a potential purchase in the spring, but cannot make any decisions until I get the opportunity to drive the Porsche - even with the Macan being 10% more than the BMW
 

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Comparisons are natural. It's what we do, from restaurants to basketball players to, yes, cars. The X3 would appear to be the closest competitor to the Macan but realistically
it seems Porsche has carved its own niche by producing the first true sports car-crossover (or so the marketing department would have us believe). Comparing the Macan with any other brand would seem to be moot except when it comes to the price of some of the options ($3,500 for nav vs. $2,000 at BMW).
 

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the thing we also have to consider when discussing the Macan and Q5 platform is that this is how the VW group is set up. VW and Audi each have their own modular platform that underpins everything from the A3 through the Q5.

Porsches Modular platform is whats currently under the 911, Cayman and Boxster, so slightly impractical for an SUV considering the engine hangs out the back! The Cayenne shares its architecture with the VW Tourag and Q7.
 

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Coming from a 2013 BMW M3, I can tell you the 911 Carrera and Carrera S are a different league. A lot more confidence with the 991 then my e92. While they do compare on paper, it just takes a drive to recognize the huge difference of the two cars. The annoying thing is that Porsche is not offering every option come launch. The X3 doesn't really come close to the Macan in terms of performance. The N55 while good, has gobs of turbo lag.

I've had at least 10 BMW's in the past 12 years, and have come to realize that Porsche is the standard in terms of driving dynamics and overall quality. There's a 2011 X5 that's coming off lease about to get replaced with, you guessed it, a 2015 Cayenne.


The high price tag is also justified by the quality products used on the inside of the cabin. BMW's seem to be on a downward spiral in that category, and I hated the fact that everything felt cheap and rattled.
 

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I spec'd up a X3 with equiv features to what I am hoping to get my Macan S for and I came to $55k, compared to $63k - so $8000 for presumably a better driving experience and the Porsche badge (that has to account for something, right?)
 
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