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Within 30 days of being legally able to or guidance, I will NOT:

  • 1. attend an outdoor sporting event (e.g., HS baseball game)

    Votes: 77 72.6%
  • 2. attend an indoor sporting event (e.g., NBA or College basketball game)

    Votes: 91 85.8%
  • 3. attend or host an informal social gathering (e.g. party or outdoor BBQ)

    Votes: 40 37.7%
  • 4. attend or host a formal social gathering (e.g., wedding)

    Votes: 72 67.9%
  • 5. attend a formal public gathering (e.g., 4th of July event)

    Votes: 85 80.2%
  • 6. eat in a sit down restaurant or visit a bar

    Votes: 61 57.5%
  • 7. go to a movie, theater, or concert (other than a drive-in)

    Votes: 83 78.3%
  • 8. take my car for any kind of non-emergency service

    Votes: 23 21.7%
  • 9. have any kind of non-emergency service done inside my house, apartment, etc.

    Votes: 40 37.7%
  • 10. go to any kind of non-emergency medical appointment (e.g., routine physical, dental cleaning)

    Votes: 39 36.8%
  • 11. physically perform non-essential shopping (e.g., physically shop for luxuries, new clothes)

    Votes: 48 45.3%
  • 12. go to a public park, beach, town square, etc.

    Votes: 30 28.3%

  • Total voters
    106
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Decisions have consequences.
Sorry, but we are in a pandemic. If one wants to accept it or not. Other countries did well and can start to safely reopen soon.
We f'd up and it will require more time to get it under control here.
Until then schools closed. I don't understand why this is even a debate? Much like masks.
In my area 95% of public schools already voted for remote learning to be continued in the fall. Good!
Well, I am fortunate my kids go to private schools. They will open.

When you say 95% of the public schools votes for remote learning, what exactly do you mean? The teachers voted? The parents voted? Here in MN, the Department of Education did a survey with 130,000 parents that have school age kids. 65% voted to fully reopen schools.
I'm starting to believe you that your state and local leadership ain't very good at this pandemic handling.
LOL!!!!! You think our Governor is not good at the pandemic? How about the riots? He is a disaster in every shape and form.
 

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PA is the opposite. The PIAA, which regulates high school sports, very recently announced their plans for fall sports to start. School districts here in the Pittsburgh area have been making announcements for how students will receive an education in their district. It runs the full gambit from total virtual to hybrid to parents' choice. I just shake my head in disbelief that a school says they don't feel it is safe for students to attend school, in person, but they can go out and play football. And I believe I posted earlier, that they have even provided guidelines for the school's marching band.
That is my point. Learning is not OK. Playing sports is OK. See the problem here? Inside a classroom you can control social distancing, wear a mask, no contact. Inside a gym, kids are sweating, touching each other, breathing hard with no mask. That is how MN Government works.
 

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That is my point. Learning is not OK. Playing sports is OK. See the problem here? Inside a classroom you can control social distancing, wear a mask, no contact. Inside a gym, kids are sweating, touching each other, breathing hard with no mask. That is how MN Government works.
Totally agree. And not gender-bias, but IMPHO 14-18-year-old boys aren't known for their exemplary rule-following abilities.
 
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For sure, some States are handling the pandemic better than others. Here in Massachusetts, we came up with a plan, stuck to it, and we were able to get our infection rate down....and now we are in talks about opening schools this Fall.

Helps to have a plan....

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When you say 95% of the public schools votes for remote learning, what exactly do you mean? The teachers voted? The parents voted? Here in MN, the Department of Education did a survey with 130,000 parents that have school age kids. 65% voted to fully reopen schools.
I believe it was decided by each county's board of education.
They had three options. Full on opening, hybrid approach and remote only. Most went remote only. Some hybrid. None that I know of went with fully open.
I believe some private schools will open here as well. Good luck is all I can say.
 

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Bill Gates on back to school: Benefits in ‘almost every location’ outweigh costs for young children

Here's the video. I agree with @yrralis1 here in that he has a vested interest because of vaccine. And its just another opinion. Is it based on science?


Here's the head of the CDC. He DOES NOT have a vested interest, AFAIK, and maybe is based on Science. Date July 14, BEFORE the revised CDC guidelines put out, you know before the guidelines that some think POTUS got to the writers of the guidelines.

Video Robert Redfield, MD

COVID Webinar Series (TRANSCRIPT): Robert Redfield, MD - BUCK
 

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I don't know how well this will play out but even if one child or parent dies or faces long term illness then that's too many .
Its too late. They already have. Dr Redfield, head of the CDC, July 14


Read it yourself. HS kids are already dead, above the baseline, because of the virus. Suicides and drug deaths that would not have happened. Those deaths count too. And they are already dead. The logical conclusion is that those deaths will continue to rise as long as they are closed.

The cause of the death is different, but dead is dead. Can they can list on the death certificate that the secondary cause of death was Covid-19 preventing them from being in school? So do the math. Which will have more deaths? From suicides and drug overdoes or going to school and the virus?

Perhaps you ought to see what its like living at the epicenter .
According to Dr Birx this morning, the south is old news. Virus is now moving to the midwest and the west coast. Too early for the video clip to be up.

Also buy those goggles or face shield. She now advised that to be a good idea.
 

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Interesting. No country for face masks; Nordics brush of mouth covers.

None of the Nordic countries have embraced them. Neither has the Netherlands but with much better results than Belgium next door. Currently Sweden is winding way down and is comparable to New York, but without masking. So what keeps New York low? Why does each area’s infection burn out at about 20%? Is that happening in parts of the South? If it’s because they “get religion“ on masking, Sweden wouldn’t be so similar to New York. And if goggles are less effective than masks, how effective are goggles (except when caring for virus patients in a hospital)?

So many questions. It’s nowhere near a clear picture.
 

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Is that happening in parts of the South?
According to Dr Birx, its moving. Video should be out later today. Heading to mid west, and west coast. Maybe because people are taking vacation. I think she said vacations.
 

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According to Dr Birx, its moving. Video should be out later today. Heading to mid west, and west coast. Maybe because people are taking vacation. I think she said vacations.
But why is it now tapering off in the South (per Dr Birx - I haven't seen the data)? Masking? Renewed lockdowns? Or is it just approaching that 20% threshold at which it "burns out" everywhere on earth? :unsure:

Why is Sweden's new infection rate now slightly lower per capita than New York? There's a huge difference in mask utilization but both areas are seeing very few new cases. Why?
 

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Interesting. These 13 states need to lock down now, according to Harvard coronavirus experts.

A report released this week by the Trump administration’s coronavirus task force warns that 21 states are now in the “red zone” and need to take aggressive steps to slow the spread of COVID-19. That sounds serious. But according to new, comprehensive national guidelines from a network of research, policy and public-health experts convened by Harvard University’s Global Health Institute and Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics, the latest federal report probably isn’t serious enough. Why? Because the steps it recommends may be too weak to suppress the virus, and the threshold at which it recommends them may be too high.The Trump task force, for instance, doesn’t advise authorities to issue stay-at-home orders — anywhere. But if the Harvard experts had their way, 13 states would lock down right now. Another 22 would be considering lockdowns.

But is our goal complete suppression (elimination) or is it flattening the curve enough not to overwhelm hospitals? Those are two entirely different things. Until we all agree on that we can never agree on restrictions or lockdowns. Here's the county by county view with Harvard's metrics in their Path to Zero. Harvard assumes elimination is the goal. Huge assumption. Have we all bought into it? Has it ever been discussed or debated clearly? This undermines credibility and creates confusion.

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But is our goal complete suppression (elimination) or is it flattening the curve enough not to overwhelm hospitals?
I think it must be both. First we still need to flatten the curve at a lower level. So let's try harder on that front.
Then we need to suppress and contact trace local outbreaks until a cure and or vaccine is found.
IMO there is no other way. This thing is not seasonal.
It'll not go away and it's contagious enough to infect 10s of thousands a day if left to spread uncontrolled.
If we don't move together towards elimination with lock-down, treatment and vaccine it'll just keep killing us by the 100s of thousands forever.
I know that's not what everyone wants to hear but it is what it is...
 

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I think it must be both. First we still need to flatten the curve at a lower level. So let's try harder on that front.
Then we need to suppress and contact trace local outbreaks until a cure and or vaccine is found.
IMO there is no other way. This thing is not seasonal.
It'll not go away and it's contagious enough to infect 10s of thousands a day if left to spread uncontrolled.
If we don't move together towards elimination with lock-down, treatment and vaccine it'll just keep killing us by the 100s of thousands forever.
I know that's not what everyone wants to hear but it is what it is...
Exactly. We have to strike some sort of balance. I think Mike Rowe arrived at a reasonable personal middle ground perspective based on Dr Osterholm‘s prognosis. Continue life with all reasonable precautions. Protect the vulnerable and hold spread down to manageable levels without doing too much harm in other respects. The old 80:20 rule applies even to this situation.
 

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So, you all know we have a genius acting as Governor here in MN.
#1: This is the guy that decided to lockdown the entire state following what NYC did and basically killed lots of businesses for no reason when 92% of all deaths from Covid came from nursing homes which until today he has no plans for it;
#2: This is the guy that let looters destroy the city of Minneapolis and when offered the National Guard right when things were getting a bit out of control he said "no tks, I have it under my control". Fast forward couple weeks later he asked for emergency funds of $600MM to recover more than 2,000 businesses that were burned and destroyed by the rioters. Oh and BTW, he served on the National Guard for 24 years after teaching geography in China (yes, he knows everything about running a state) but still he felt that using the National Guard was not adequate;
#3: This is the guy that after many stated had mandated the population to wear masks said he wasn't sure if that was the way to go. It took Covid cases to go up after they were down for him to male wearing masks mandatory.
#4: This is the guy that allowed all summer sports at schools to go back in full, no masks and full contact basketball inside schools gyms, hockey, volleyball, baseball, etc...

Now, today was the day he would let us all know his decision regarding opening schools in the fall. Since there are people way more educated and smarter then me in this Forum I will let for you guys to read his decision and enlighten me with your knowledge and expertise because I am not sure what to make of it.

Here it goes:
"To fully reopen, a county should have fewer than 9 cases of the virus per 10,000 residents over a 14-day period. Schools in counties with higher case counts could attempt to reopen on a more limited basis for full or part-time classes, with younger students getting priority for in-person instruction. Schools in counties with more than 50 cases per 10,000 residents should consider going fully online--but some districts could deviate from the guidance if they can keep students safe."

So, he basically did nothing. He passed the problem back to the schools. Why 9 cases and not 10? Well, I guess 9 is his lucky number. Could have him made this more complicated? Probably not. I am assuming every morning the school director will look into a table and calculate how many cases of Covid were reported in each county and get to the final number. If the magic number is under 9, schools are open. If the magic number is 10, ooops, kids stay home.

I could not be more grateful my kids go to private school so I don't have to deal with this BS. I feel bad for those who have kids going to public schools.
 

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This is a huge article with a lot of information. Atlantic: We Need to Talk About Ventilation. I only skimmed it, but found this encouraging:

Strikingly, in one database of more than 1,200 super-spreader events, just one incident is classified as outdoor transmission, where a single person was infected outdoors by their jogging partner, and only 39 are classified as outdoor/indoor events, which doesn’t mean that being outdoors played a role, but it couldn’t be ruled out. The rest were all indoor events, and many involved dozens or hundreds of people at once. Other research points to the same result: Super-spreader events occur overwhelmingly in indoor environments where there are a lot of people.

There’s a lot we don’t know and nothing is perfectly safe, but the outdoors looks pretty good. Even a crowded beach shouldn’t create big problems. Street protests should be OK too, except maybe the shouting.
 

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The purpose of this thread was discussion of opening up the country and YOUR level of risk taking. How do YOU feel?

Ever notice the new buzzwords in the vernacular? Scary words like "novel". Have you EVER in your life heard any disease called "novel"? MERS was NOVEL. SARS was novel, and yet, that word was never used. Why not? Why now but not then?

WHO has ever hear the word "Novel", in relation to a disease, used in common language until now? Anyone?

Was "flatten the curve" used in 59 or 69? And now they moved on to face shields. Funny thing, they didn't mention that in April. Why not? Face shields didn't work in April? No one finds that suspicious?

I got nothing against face shields. Goggles protect your eyes. I get the part about not enough N95 masks for everyone but face shields and goggles? There is no shortage of goggles. But why didn't they say this months ago???? Why now? You think anyone will answer that? What was their strategy for rolling this out?

If you are scared, be prepared. By stock now. How many times have you been told a second wave is coming? You all think a vaccine will save you? Whats the efficacy of vaccines ? What's history say about that? I know, no one pays attention
  • Smallpox was 95%
  • Childhood diseases? Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
  • For the Flu is 40 - 60%. For the paranoid, the fearful, those that are at risk, are you going to lead a normal life with a 50% efficacy? You going to take a 50/50 chance if you catch you could die - IF at Risk? Those with comorbities or over 60?
  • AFAIK there is no vaccine for Covid's sisters, SARS and MERS. If one is found, what's its efficacy?
  • Common cold? There is none.
SO

HOW LUCKY ARE YOU FEELING?

I presume there are very few 30 year olds here, maybe middle age and older? If you have a co-morbidity or over 60, how comfortable would you be with a 50% effective vaccine? Are you going to lead a normal life or wear a mask and/or shield until you die?

How do you all feel about that? How afraid are you?

I can answer this. If I was 30, I know I wouldn't care. I'd do the math, and take the odds. You know all those math classes you take in college. No one ever took probability? Statistics? I hated them. Now? If in a confined space, low roof, tightly packed, say like the DMV when full, everyone packed in and sitting there for six hours? I know odds = time x level of exposure. I'd wear a KN95 mask with a 50% effective vaccine. Otherwise, no.

You?
 

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Today I went to the liquor store and had my concealed carry permit renewed. Busy day...:)

While checking out I see a guy pulling up what I would say was a...hmmm..."vintage" pickup truck.
Liquor store is state government run here.
No mask - no service - no exception.

I see no mask with the guy. :unsure:
What does he do?

You guessed it. Or maybe not.
Takes his shirt off and holds it over his face while in the store. :oops::LOL:
Had to share. Only in 'Murica.
 

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Today I went to the liquor store and had my concealed carry permit renewed. Busy day...:)

While checking out I see a guy pulling up what I would say was a...hmmm..."vintage" pickup truck.
Liquor store is state government run here.
No mask - no service - no exception.

I see no mask with the guy. :unsure:
What does he do?

You guessed it. Or maybe not.
Takes his shirt off and holds it over his face while in the store. :oops::LOL:
Had to share. Only in 'Murica.
You have no idea what I see people using on their faces. The other day it was 95F here. A guy enters Costco wearing a motorcycle helmet. Fully closed. He shopped for maybe 30 minutes with that in his head. Yes, I guess he was protected but WTF!!!! Now the sad part is in very poor countries where people are using lettuce on their faces improvising as masks.
 
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Here's the video. I agree with @yrralis1 here in that he has a vested interest because of vaccine. And its just another opinion. Is it based on science?


Here's the head of the CDC. He DOES NOT have a vested interest, AFAIK, and maybe is based on Science. Date July 14, BEFORE the revised CDC guidelines put out, you know before the guidelines that some think POTUS got to the writers of the guidelines.

Video Robert Redfield, MD

COVID Webinar Series (TRANSCRIPT): Robert Redfield, MD - BUCK
Where do you folks get your ingrained hatred for Bill Gates? He got together with Warren Buffett some years ago and decided to create a program for gazillionaires to give their money to charity. When this pandemic came down the line it was pointed out he made a public brief about what would happen if one did years before. He was right. When the pandemic actually hit he established 7 factories to make competing possible vaccines with the thought the one that works wins.
You guys get really nasty.
 

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We heard Melinda Gates at a church leadership conference streamed globally. It’s obvious the Gates’ intentions are good. The two recent concerns I’ve seen are:

1) Their potential influence on vaccine policies that could interfere with personal choice and privacy. Many feel it’s inappropriate for Bill to influence such policies. He’s unelected, not appointed, and not an expert, so it appears he seeks influence based on wealth alone.

2) Their foundation’s potential conflict of interest. It makes contributions to causes that generate very significant financial benefits to companies in their investment portfolio. This gets complicated fast. I’m sure they have lawyers and accounts guiding them, but it’s unprecedented and not a very good image.
 
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