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Within 30 days of being legally able to or guidance, I will NOT:

  • 1. attend an outdoor sporting event (e.g., HS baseball game)

    Votes: 59 72.0%
  • 2. attend an indoor sporting event (e.g., NBA or College basketball game)

    Votes: 69 84.1%
  • 3. attend or host an informal social gathering (e.g. party or outdoor BBQ)

    Votes: 32 39.0%
  • 4. attend or host a formal social gathering (e.g., wedding)

    Votes: 53 64.6%
  • 5. attend a formal public gathering (e.g., 4th of July event)

    Votes: 64 78.0%
  • 6. eat in a sit down restaurant or visit a bar

    Votes: 41 50.0%
  • 7. go to a movie, theater, or concert (other than a drive-in)

    Votes: 62 75.6%
  • 8. take my car for any kind of non-emergency service

    Votes: 21 25.6%
  • 9. have any kind of non-emergency service done inside my house, apartment, etc.

    Votes: 31 37.8%
  • 10. go to any kind of non-emergency medical appointment (e.g., routine physical, dental cleaning)

    Votes: 32 39.0%
  • 11. physically perform non-essential shopping (e.g., physically shop for luxuries, new clothes)

    Votes: 37 45.1%
  • 12. go to a public park, beach, town square, etc.

    Votes: 25 30.5%

  • Total voters
    82
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I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country. I moved here 20 years ago, paid all my taxes, became a citizen legally but I am really concerned the way we are going. The fact that Governors can dictate how we live is dangerous and yes the only way for them to ensure lockdown stays in place until a vaccine is found is by raising taxes. I live in MN for the last 15 years. Love the place, amazing to raise kids but politically it is going downhill. Just look what the people here vote to represent us in Congress. Now we have a Governor that doesn't understand that protecting nursing homes would drastically reduce the deaths here. Barber shops, gyms, local coffee shops are still closes for over 3 months and now guess what? They are debating for a full week if they will allow the MN State Fair happen in July. For those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc... Are you serious? How come they are still debating if that will happen? That should be a NO since January. My boys won't have soccer camps this summer because he thinks it is too dangerous but he is still considering a State Fair? I am so fortunate I have 3 passports so if I get too tired I am moving on.
Santastico, if it's any consolation, my wife and I have seriously considered leaving this country all based on the outcome of the election. And yet, as an disabled veteran there's this little voice in the back of my head telling me to stay and do what I can to fight and push back against the top-down corruption that I see.
 

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Wow, speaking of Rogers and Hammerstein...As a young'n in the early '50s, I took it for granted that my mother had a wonderful voice when she sang along with the mono recording of "Oklahoma" on our home record player. Stirring stuff, that soundtrack. I'll bet any bicycle rider of my vintage has, at some time, had "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" run through their head on an early A.M. ride in the country.

Regarding another R&H blockbuster, "State Fair," this brings back, as memory sometimes happily will, of having first heard that trailer, believe it or not, sitting in the back seat of a blue Plymouth sedan, at a drive-in theater through a distinctly no-fi speaker, mounted on the driver side front window. The themes were so catchy, I don't even remember the feature presentation, so it was probably a movie Dad wanted to see..."Manchurian Candidate?" Great trailer! Our state fair is the BEST state fair!" IMHO, except Ohio.

Thanks for the link, long forgotten... And please listen to a high bit rate copy of "Oklahoma." You'll laugh, you'll cry...just what's needed for these times.

FP
 

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I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country. I moved here 20 years ago, paid all my taxes, became a citizen legally but I am really concerned the way we are going. The fact that Governors can dictate how we live is dangerous and yes the only way for them to ensure lockdown stays in place until a vaccine is found is by raising taxes. I live in MN for the last 15 years. Love the place, amazing to raise kids but politically it is going downhill. Just look what the people here vote to represent us in Congress. Now we have a Governor that doesn't understand that protecting nursing homes would drastically reduce the deaths here. Barber shops, gyms, local coffee shops are still closes for over 3 months and now guess what? They are debating for a full week if they will allow the MN State Fair happen in July. For those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc... Are you serious? How come they are still debating if that will happen? That should be a NO since January. My boys won't have soccer camps this summer because he thinks it is too dangerous but he is still considering a State Fair? I am so fortunate I have 3 passports so if I get too tired I am moving on.
Your governor is almost, but quite, as similar as my governor in Washington state, This can be tracked to their political origins. They do the same stuff which is to control their citizens and this has nothing to do with Covid-19.
 

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I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country. I moved here 20 years ago, paid all my taxes, became a citizen legally but I am really concerned the way we are going. The fact that Governors can dictate how we live is dangerous and yes the only way for them to ensure lockdown stays in place until a vaccine is found is by raising taxes. I live in MN for the last 15 years. Love the place, amazing to raise kids but politically it is going downhill. Just look what the people here vote to represent us in Congress. Now we have a Governor that doesn't understand that protecting nursing homes would drastically reduce the deaths here. Barber shops, gyms, local coffee shops are still closes for over 3 months and now guess what? They are debating for a full week if they will allow the MN State Fair happen in July. For those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc... Are you serious? How come they are still debating if that will happen? That should be a NO since January. My boys won't have soccer camps this summer because he thinks it is too dangerous but he is still considering a State Fair? I am so fortunate I have 3 passports so if I get too tired I am moving on.
Move to Texas! You’ll hate the weather and flat terrain, but love the rest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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It seems like I wrote the article but I didn't. This is exactly what I have been saying since day one. With all due respect to Geography teachers, that is what happens when you put one to run a state.

 

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Discussion Starter #646
CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED

A City in FL - @yrralis1 might be of interest to you, decided to not use sand but mulch to stop the skateboarders. Just like in CA, what happened?


The kids, and their parents, removed it. Worse yet, people who were NOT skaters arrived to help

Word spread on social media, and people who didn’t even skate arrived to help.
Then it got worse. The LEOs just watched and did nothing

Gainesville Police Department officers arrived a little after 7:00 p.m., but they only made sure nobody took any of the mulch.
And then it got worse


The city reopened the park and admitted they made a mistake. Ya think?

a city representative, admitted "... we missed the mark."
I really hope the young, particularly Gen Z and Millennials are paying attention to this. We are living through a live, real time civics lesson about the Consent of the Governed. If an Executive creates and order and the officers who are supposed to enforce it do nothing, well they are part of the governed, and if those being governed refuse, en masse, to obey it, there is nothing those that govern can do but admit defeat.
 

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CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED

A City in FL - @yrralis1 might be of interest to you, decided to not use sand but mulch to stop the skateboarders. Just like in CA, what happened?


The kids, and their parents, removed it. Worse yet, people who were NOT skaters arrived to help



Then it got worse. The LEOs just watched and did nothing



And then it got worse


The city reopened the park and admitted they made a mistake. Ya think?



I really hope the young, particularly Gen Z and Millennials are paying attention to this. We are living through a live, real time civics lesson about the Consent of the Governed. If an Executive creates and order and the officers who are supposed to enforce it do nothing, well they are part of the governed, and if those being governed refuse, en masse, to obey it, there is nothing those that govern can do but admit defeat.
If you abuse your authority, you forfeit your credibility, which in turn determines compliance.
 

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Discussion Starter #649
Turns out I lived thru a pandemic before this one. But the media and public response was far different. This video comparison is enlightening.
Yes, Hong Kong Flu. I remember nothing of it.


"Aside from the different reactions to H3N2 and COVID-19, the similarities between them are striking. Both viruses spread quickly and cause upper respiratory symptoms including fever, cough and shortness of breath. They infect mostly adults over 65 or those with underlying medical conditions, but could strike people of any age.

Both pandemics didn’t spare the rich and famous — ... President Lyndon Johnson and Vice President Hubert Humphrey both fell ill from H3N2 and recovered, ... Both pandemics brought drama to outer space: During an Apollo 8 mission in December 1968, commander Frank Borman came down with the Hong Kong flu while in orbit. ... corpses stored in subway tunnels in Germany during the H3N2 outbreak."
The virus rarely made front-page news. A 1968 story in the Associated Press warned that deaths caused by the Hong Kong flu “more than doubled across the nation in the third week of December.” But the story was buried on Page 24. .... A vaccine was soon developed — in August 1969, not long after Woodstock — but the news of a cure didn’t get much media attention either.
Here's what I think the difference is:

1969 18 year olds are told to get their butts to a Boot Camp, given a rifle, and sent to Vietnam to kill the VC in rice paddies

2020 18 years olds sit in their parents basement playing video games with no clue of what life is about.

1969 kids play in the street alone all day, play little league baseball and pee wee football, come home banged up and parents put some Mercurochrome or straight alcohol on their cuts, a bandaid, and send them out to play until its dark. If they lost the game, too bad. Learn from it.

2020 kids play supervised in a park, no contact sports, get a cut and are rushed to the hospital for antibiotic shots and observation overnight. Then given a "participation trophy" because "they tried".
 

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Discussion Starter #650
It seems like I wrote the article but I didn't. This is exactly what I have been saying since day one. With all due respect to Geography teachers, that is what happens when you put one to run a state.

 

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Discussion Starter #651
If you get your news from the main media, you might think twice about it. The local news is much better in being straight news, the facts. This is NBC. Remember what she is saying here. Listen carefully.

They actually think its "their job" to control what people think. Disgusting. :mad:

I don't care one bit what her opinion, or any talking head's opinion, is.

 

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Yes, Hong Kong Flu. I remember nothing of it.
I was in 7th grade at a new school with kids I didn’t know, so I was facing bigger threats! I do recall the term “Hong Kong Flu”. Now I know what it was.
 

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@grim Yes, the church gave the Governor the middle finger and now the population that was patient with him gave up after all the real data showing the problem is on nursing homes. This is a one term Governor for sure.
 

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@grim Yes, the church gave the Governor the middle finger and now the population that was patient with him gave up after all the real data showing the problem is on nursing homes. This is a one term Governor for sure.
Here’s a great example of a laser focus on the vulnerable, not just in nursing homes but also in elder living communities. Florida’s efforts to shield the vulnerable. If you do this well, you can relax things for everybody else and get a better outcome overall.

Concentrate your resources (PPE, testing, monitoring, metrics, etc) where the threat is greatest. Military strategists understand this concept. You can’t be strong everywhere but you don’t need to be either. Focus on the threat.
 

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CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED

A City in FL - @yrralis1 might be of interest to you, decided to not use sand but mulch to stop the skateboarders. Just like in CA, what happened?


The kids, and their parents, removed it. Worse yet, people who were NOT skaters arrived to help



Then it got worse. The LEOs just watched and did nothing



And then it got worse


The city reopened the park and admitted they made a mistake. Ya think?

This may have not entirely been a Covid story . Skateboarders in general face a lot of pushback . I know this because I was a skateboarder until age crept in and falling took on a different meaning . I can't even begin to tell you how many people will do anything to prohibit skateboarding . It's possible they tried to fuse Covid into a reason but in the absence of Covid this existed.
 

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I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country. I moved here 20 years ago, paid all my taxes, became a citizen legally but I am really concerned the way we are going. The fact that Governors can dictate how we live is dangerous and yes the only way for them to ensure lockdown stays in place until a vaccine is found is by raising taxes. I live in MN for the last 15 years. Love the place, amazing to raise kids but politically it is going downhill. Just look what the people here vote to represent us in Congress. Now we have a Governor that doesn't understand that protecting nursing homes would drastically reduce the deaths here. Barber shops, gyms, local coffee shops are still closes for over 3 months and now guess what? They are debating for a full week if they will allow the MN State Fair happen in July. For those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc... Are you serious? How come they are still debating if that will happen? That should be a NO since January. My boys won't have soccer camps this summer because he thinks it is too dangerous but he is still considering a State Fair? I am so fortunate I have 3 passports so if I get too tired I am moving on.
You didn't have to live in Minnesota . It also sounds like Trump agrees with you and you'll have the chance to vote . Up until this pandemic I would have voted right beside you but I disagree so much about this Covid approach that I will abstain . I will not vote.

If on the other hand I see a second wave , large groups of illness , a refusal to shut down again , and more of this "I want my rights" running around without a face mask screaming like zealots in the street ... then I will vote for Biden and I do not feel I will be alone .

I am actually saddened by either direction.
 

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Santastico, if it's any consolation, my wife and I have seriously considered leaving this country all based on the outcome of the election. And yet, as an disabled veteran there's this little voice in the back of my head telling me to stay and do what I can to fight and push back against the top-down corruption that I see.
The grass is not greener anywhere . No one is ever going to be in 100 percent agreement no matter where one lives . We do live in a fantastic country with a tremendous passion for growth and development . Even in disagreement it is clear that there are many hard working people here who have contributed to its success .

Every 4 years the public gets two new people to choose from . All the while they promote opposing philosophies and while the public is quarreling over things like social issues the corporations run the show . It's. divide and conquer tactic of which the public takes the bait .

The USA is still young (comparably speaking) but I for one love it here and cant imagine ever moving . In fact I don't even care to travel . I got all I need right here are home sweet home.
 

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Discussion Starter #658
CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED


If you don't know whats going on here, a MI barber violates the lockdown oder, gets two citations, AND his barber licensed pulled. Barber continues to cut hair. State goes to court for a restraining order and it was denied. Judge sides with the barber and he can keep working. This sounds like a slap down. Show me the data. No data? Too bad.

"(The attorney general) has not presented any studies underlying the doctor's conclusion. (The attorney general) has not shown any nexus between the cutting of hair and an increased risk of transmission," Stewart wrote in his opinion. "(The attorney general's) filings rest more on general facts about COVID-19 than specific practices or conditions at (Manke's) business."
and a RECKONING

By now everyone should know that the CDC has provided guidelines for religious opening. After the AG verbally warned the states, wrote a letter in support of one state, then provided a written warning to CA, they all had to know this was coming. Check list from the CDC

At todays Virus briefing the WH reporters, IMO, disgraced themselves with either lack of understanding of the Constitution or intentionally just throwing out "gotcha" questions. I'm not sure which is which because I fear they really do not understand the Constitution.


I'm leaning towards they are just so inexperienced they were never taught the Supremacy Clause. Of course its done via judicial means. Its not like POTUS will drives over to MI and demand religious places to open. Its just run immediately up to SCOTUS. :rolleyes: The nation was founded on the basis of Religious freedom and the first amendment put an exclamation point on it.


"English persecution ... led a group of Separatists to flee to Holland in search of religious freedom. ... they decided to immigrate to Virginia, where an English colony had been founded at Jamestown in 1607.
Three dozen church members made their way back to England, where they were joined by about 70 entrepreneurs–enlisted by the London stock company to ensure the success of the enterprise. ... On September 16, the Mayflower left for America alone from Plymouth.
The Mayflower sails from Plymouth, England, bound for the New World with 102 passengers. The ship was headed for Virginia, where the colonists–half religious dissenters and half entrepreneurs–had been authorized to settle by the British crown. However, stormy weather and navigational errors forced the Mayflower off course, and on November 21 the “Pilgrims” reached Massachusetts, where they founded the first permanent European settlement in New England in late December.
Thirty-five of the Pilgrims were members of the radical English Separatist Church, who traveled to America to escape the jurisdiction of the Church of England, which they found corrupt."
I think their might be another reckoning with the press.

Students just need to watch current events to get a lifetime, live, lesson in Civics.
 

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Come on man.... religious persecution? What is this nonsense? There is something out there that is making people sick. And some are dying from it. In a barbershop, a nail salon or a...nah.... I'm not gonna say massage parlor, NO ONE is yelling or singing at the top of their lungs and elbow-to-elbow in a small (or large) ENCLOSED building looking for redemption, forgiveness or help. You remember the story of the guy in Korea that went to five clubs and infected hundreds? How about the church in the midwest where one parishioner had it and half the church got the virus from him.

If you can smell another person's breadth you're TOO DAMNED CLOSE! And, unless you swapped spit or body fluids with that other person, you might be in trouble in 10 days. Face masks don't prevent the wearer from getting the virus. When you breath in, it's coming in through the mask as well as around the sides. My question is why do we need to congregate to a 'holy place' such as a synagogue or church or mosque to pray? Personally, I try not to bother him. But, on those occassions when I do need that moment of spiritual re-centering, I just turn off the noise and get him on speed-dial. I don't need a 'roof over my head' to do that.

I will realize there are those that need to congregate to worship 'collectively'. To those, I wish them health and best wishes. I figure we're gonna know by mid-June (2 weeks after this Memorial Day weekend) if we screwed up big time. I hope not. Truly.
 

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Come on man.... religious persecution? What is this nonsense? There is something out there that is making people sick. And some are dying from it. In a barbershop, a nail salon or a...nah.... I'm not gonna say massage parlor, NO ONE is yelling or singing at the top of their lungs and elbow-to-elbow in a small (or large) ENCLOSED building looking for redemption, forgiveness or help. You remember the story of the guy in Korea that went to five clubs and infected hundreds? How about the church in the midwest where one parishioner had it and half the church got the virus from him.

If you can smell another person's breadth you're TOO DAMNED CLOSE! And, unless you swapped spit or body fluids with that other person, you might be in trouble in 10 days. Face masks don't prevent the wearer from getting the virus. When you breath in, it's coming in through the mask as well as around the sides. My question is why do we need to congregate to a 'holy place' such as a synagogue or church or mosque to pray? Personally, I try not to bother him. But, on those occassions when I do need that moment of spiritual re-centering, I just turn off the noise and get him on speed-dial. I don't need a 'roof over my head' to do that.

I will realize there are those that need to congregate to worship 'collectively'. To those, I wish them health and best wishes. I figure we're gonna know by mid-June (2 weeks after this Memorial Day weekend) if we screwed up big time. I hope not. Truly.
My church has an auditorium seating 3000 with about a 50 foot ceiling. It’s very easy to maintain a 6 foot separation by adding a service or two, although many would probably elect to worship online, making that unnecessary. Is a casino somehow more essential and less risky? And as Grim points out, the constitution and the history behind it is unambiguously crystal clear on the issue.

Having said that, I’m pretty confident mine won’t open quickly. Proper planning takes time. The problem is our Gov gives worship dead last priority, warning he won’t authorize it until there’s a proven vaccine deployed, maybe 12 months or longer. That sort of restriction won’t fly anywhere In this nation.
 
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