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Within 30 days of being legally able to or guidance, I will NOT:

  • 1. attend an outdoor sporting event (e.g., HS baseball game)

    Votes: 60 72.3%
  • 2. attend an indoor sporting event (e.g., NBA or College basketball game)

    Votes: 70 84.3%
  • 3. attend or host an informal social gathering (e.g. party or outdoor BBQ)

    Votes: 33 39.8%
  • 4. attend or host a formal social gathering (e.g., wedding)

    Votes: 54 65.1%
  • 5. attend a formal public gathering (e.g., 4th of July event)

    Votes: 65 78.3%
  • 6. eat in a sit down restaurant or visit a bar

    Votes: 42 50.6%
  • 7. go to a movie, theater, or concert (other than a drive-in)

    Votes: 63 75.9%
  • 8. take my car for any kind of non-emergency service

    Votes: 21 25.3%
  • 9. have any kind of non-emergency service done inside my house, apartment, etc.

    Votes: 32 38.6%
  • 10. go to any kind of non-emergency medical appointment (e.g., routine physical, dental cleaning)

    Votes: 33 39.8%
  • 11. physically perform non-essential shopping (e.g., physically shop for luxuries, new clothes)

    Votes: 37 44.6%
  • 12. go to a public park, beach, town square, etc.

    Votes: 26 31.3%

  • Total voters
    83
621 - 640 of 779 Posts

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Dkayak and Grim, I've been reading this thread since it began. Lots of good dialogue. And yet, I believe we can all agree the 'science' behind this virus is changing almost by the day. There are so many concerns regarding safety protocols, it's hard to keep track. What's good for one county is not okay for another county, state to state, nation to nation.... It's a friggin' free-for-all.

With all this, I offer a small anecdotal piece. A year ago September, I had my urologist of ~25 years check me out. I had been having problems urinating my whole life. I thought my prostate was getting too large. The exam confirmed that. However, by shear accident, he discovered a type of bladder cancer. They performed a FISH test (look it up). Turned out I had two types. One is similar to polyps or mini mushrooms. The other is like peat moss on a rock. The treatment I went under was 6 weeks of having 2 oz's of a clear compound pushed up into my bladder using a thin catheter in the office. It's called BCG or Baccillus Calmet Geurin. It's a LIVE bacteria. It's what's used as a vaccine for TB.... It causes all of your antibodies, T and B cells to rush to the bladder to "fight" this. After each treatment for a day or two, you urinate blood and the lining of your bladder wall. In chunks. The safety concerns during this time are unreal: sit when you urinate (NO SPLASHING), bleach in the toilet for 20 minutes, protected sex for months afterwards, etc, etc.

Six weeks ago, I finished up 3 rounds of 'maintenance' to make sure we got it all, but it's a type that will reoccur. But, at 71....meh. While all this is going on, I read up on this treatment and others using chemo. By accident, I found a few articles, one by the NIH, that states........cigarette smoke is the main reason for bladder cancer. HOWEVER, the use of marijuana, weed, contradicts the effects of cigarette smoking and can actually prevent it from occurring.

Now, I may die from lung cancer, but I feel comfortable I have the bladder cancer under control... Isn't science a remarkable thing? I believe with all my heart, we should keep politics far from this right now. But,I know that just won't happen with 6 short months to an election that will be at the least very contentious.
I’m sorry to hear about your tough medical journey Bruce. My first wife won a long struggle with breast cancer. I will tell you from that experience that the emotional component gets steadily better every year. Hopefully you’ve crossed the low point. Twelve years later I lost her to an entirely independent disease. Do not look back Bruce. Very few of us know when or how we’ll eventually die. One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Samual Clements (Mark Twain): “I’ve seen many terrible things in my life. Some of them actually happened.” Celebrate your recent recovery and enjoy your life.
 

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It’s actually been a pretty good day for democracy in Illinois. Last week Governor Pritzger announced a new 150 day executive order that made violating his dictate a misdemeanor with up to 1 year in jail, effective this Friday. However, Illinois law says a 12 representative legislative oversight committee (6 Democrat and 6 Republican) can overturn such orders if 8 of the 12 agree. Apparently the 12 members received feedback from 20,000 citizens and were set to vote on it today. The outcome was obvious to even Governor Pritzger.

Pritzger forced to withdraw criminal penalties for small business owners who defy his order

At the same time today the State Police stated on their Facebook page they will not arrest anyone defying the Governor’s orders, noting they feel their role is to educate and persuade. He can no longer threaten to sic the State Police on citizens and businesses when local police refuse to enforce his orders.

Hopefully any Federal aid can be crafted with a lot of strings attached so it’s distributed fairly and can’t be used to achieve political goals that defy the will of the people. Or maybe the Federal Justice Department will get involved, since there are constitutional issues at play.
 

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I get the feeling there will be many people moving states soon. A vaccine or treatment may never happen and these guys will keep killing business.
 

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That will not happen because of job shortages in other states also. This is happening around the world. Every country, city state, borough, parrish, county, neighborhood and street is being exposed. There is no place to hide. Most will survive this. A few, figuratively, will not. It will take time as in years for this to pass, if it ever does. Immune today may not guarantee immunity next 'season'. What we do know, currently across all demographics, is that it hits the poor and elderly the hardest. Poor in the sense their health is already compromised. Elderly, simply put. sixty and above Of those hit the hardest and that died, they are finding a large percentage showed diabetes (I'd venture many overweight too). It 'knows' our weaknesses. It's going after the weakest in the herd. Occasionally, it hits someone who was in 'perfect health'.

Am I concerned? At 71, yeah. I am. I don't know enough yet to feel comfortable going outside my front door or stepping out of my vehicle somewhere. You know something no one has touched on yet is an uptick in murders. Desperate people do desparate things... Houston is showing some weird killings recently.
 

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I get the feeling there will be many people moving states soon. A vaccine or treatment may never happen and these guys will keep killing business.
We’re planning a trip thru the southeast in June to narrow our list of candidate states. Today I’m arranging an appraisal to argue for reducing our Incredibly high property taxes (20% higher this year) and to help us set a selling price. Illinois was swirling the financial drain before COVID-19 and now it’s accelerating the process. Our Governor is pushing a constitutional amendment in November to Allow him raise taxes on small businesses that survive his lockdown. It’s just prudent to prepare to join the exodus.
 

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That will not happen because of job shortages in other states also. This is happening around the world. Every country, city state, borough, parrish, county, neighborhood and street is being exposed. There is no place to hide. Most will survive this. A few, figuratively, will not. It will take time as in years for this to pass, if it ever does. Immune today may not guarantee immunity next 'season'. What we do know, currently across all demographics, is that it hits the poor and elderly the hardest. Poor in the sense their health is already compromised. Elderly, simply put. sixty and above Of those hit the hardest and that died, they are finding a large percentage showed diabetes (I'd venture many overweight too). It 'knows' our weaknesses. It's going after the weakest in the herd. Occasionally, it hits someone who was in 'perfect health'.

Am I concerned? At 71, yeah. I am. I don't know enough yet to feel comfortable going outside my front door or stepping out of my vehicle somewhere. You know something no one has touched on yet is an uptick in murders. Desperate people do desparate things... Houston is showing some weird killings recently.
Right. There are many things we can do to reduce our susceptibility. Add vitamin D insufficiency to your list too. And insulin resistance (short of actual diabetes). These are easily addressed lifestyle issues. I believe we’ll eventually learn these factors are more critical than age. They just tend to accumulate with time. Resolve to be the best possible version of you for your age.

Crime seems to be a side effect. Situational awareness is always very important. Criminals target distracted victims. A police friend in our cycling group encourages (licensed) concealed carry.

But as you point out, it will all pass eventually. The 1918 pandemic is a good reminder of that.
 

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Dkayak and Grim, I've been reading this thread since it began. Lots of good dialogue. And yet, I believe we can all agree the 'science' behind this virus is changing almost by the day. There are so many concerns regarding safety protocols, it's hard to keep track. What's good for one county is not okay for another county, state to state, nation to nation.... It's a friggin' free-for-all.

With all this, I offer a small anecdotal piece. A year ago September, I had my urologist of ~25 years check me out. I had been having problems urinating my whole life. I thought my prostate was getting too large. The exam confirmed that. However, by shear accident, he discovered a type of bladder cancer. They performed a FISH test (look it up). Turned out I had two types. One is similar to polyps or mini mushrooms. The other is like peat moss on a rock. The treatment I went under was 6 weeks of having 2 oz's of a clear compound pushed up into my bladder using a thin catheter in the office. It's called BCG or Baccillus Calmet Geurin. It's a LIVE bacteria. It's what's used as a vaccine for TB.... It causes all of your antibodies, T and B cells to rush to the bladder to "fight" this. After each treatment for a day or two, you urinate blood and the lining of your bladder wall. In chunks. The safety concerns during this time are unreal: sit when you urinate (NO SPLASHING), bleach in the toilet for 20 minutes, protected sex for months afterwards, etc, etc.

Six weeks ago, I finished up 3 rounds of 'maintenance' to make sure we got it all, but it's a type that will reoccur. But, at 71....meh. While all this is going on, I read up on this treatment and others using chemo. By accident, I found a few articles, one by the NIH, that states........cigarette smoke is the main reason for bladder cancer. HOWEVER, the use of marijuana, weed, contradicts the effects of cigarette smoking and can actually prevent it from occurring.

Now, I may die from lung cancer, but I feel comfortable I have the bladder cancer under control... Isn't science a remarkable thing? I believe with all my heart, we should keep politics far from this right now. But,I know that just won't happen with 6 short months to an election that will be at the least very contentious.
Hey, one more thing Bruce. An old kayaking buddy fought off bladder cancer about 10 years ago. He’s now at least 75 years old. It didn’t stop him from taking his bucket list trip, riding his motorcycle from Illinois to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. He’s still riding motorcycles.
 

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I get the feeling there will be many people moving states soon. A vaccine or treatment may never happen and these guys will keep killing business.
That will not happen because of job shortages in other states also.
The exodus began three years ago and the lockdowns will only accelerate it. For example, from NBC


Biggest loser states? CA, IL, and MI. This was written in 2/19. Is anyone surprised that these are the three states where many view the Executives dictatorial? Which three states are constantly in the national news regarding lockdowns? 🤔 Its like NBC was foreshadowing. When this is over, watch the explosion of moves.

And then there is Elon Musk, champion of clean energy, fed up with CA and moving his company out.


Was this just a pressure tactic because he's suing the county? Or Real? No, its real. He's selling his houses



Elon Musk is apparently following through on his pledge to sell off his entire $100 million real-estate portfolio.
I know from personal experience someone who got fed up with where they lived, particularly with what the education system was, or was not, teaching their kids, fed up with the far left progressive attitudes, etc, sold the house, and just left. It does happen. I was kind of shocked to see that.

And now, just watch the exodus as the vast middle ground, not the extremes to the left or right but those that just get by their lives every day and pay little or no attention to much of anything, wake up and find themselves with no jobs, their one or two person businesses gone, and find what what its really like living under the systems they voted for. Everyone gets what they deserved. They made those choice. But now, today, everyone gets to see what they really voted for. Their choice. There will be a reckoning not only with China supply chains but internally. Everyone will get to choose when their Executives come up for election. Some love it. Some hate it. Its the trends to watch for. Not choosing sides, just showing the data.

In the end, it will sort itself out. Every state gets exactly what they voted for.
 

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Discussion Starter #630

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You know something no one has touched on yet is an uptick in murders. Desperate people do desparate things... Houston is showing some weird killings recently.
Crime is steady. Some places up, some down. Porch thieves UP. Domestic Violence UP. Obvious things.

 

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Am I concerned? At 71, yeah. I am. I don't know enough yet to feel comfortable going outside my front door or stepping out of my vehicle somewhere.
A legitimate concern. Lets look at real data, not models. Like the Martian, lets science the **** out of this? Start here. 2007. After reading this about fomites, you will never leave the house again. :eek: Howie Mandel was right.

Significance of Fomites in the Spread of Respiratory and Enteric Viral Disease

The spread of HAV, rotavirus, and astrovirus from hands to fomites and vice versa has been well documented in several studies (Table (Table1).1). Artificially contaminated finger pads transferred 9.2% of HAV to lettuce (11). Gloved hands transferred feline calicivirus to spatulas, lettuce, forks, doorknobs, and cutting boards (54). A study by Barker et al. demonstrated that norovirus could be transferred from contaminated surfaces to clean hands and then contaminated hands could transfer virus to a secondary surface, such as a phone or door handle (8). It was also found that norovirus-contaminated hands could cross-contaminate a series of seven clean surfaces without additional recontamination of hands (8).
Now read this. Mutating? Not so much to worry about


Now the serious things, from JHU. Read slow and careful about transmission. Fomites. Go back and read the good doctor about to get the disease on a fomites, someone basically has to cough on a doorknob, you grab it, and then stick your hand on your face. Can happen? Sure. What is the probability. We'll come back to probabilities.


One of the JHU videos from that big article. Again, don't worry so much about fomites. The early studies were not too good and the particles not viable.



During a meeting in Munich, Germany, a presymptomatic attendee with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infected at least 11 of 13 other participants. Although 5 participants had no or mild symptoms, 6 had typical coronavirus disease, without dyspnea. Our findings suggest hand shaking and face-to-face contact as possible modes of transmission.
All handshakes, hugs - touching. No conclusion on fomites.

That leaves the real transmission places. Interiors, crowds, touching people, all bad and we know that.

Point 1. You know how to avoid this and previous articles stated. Stay our of crowded interiors. For example, chances of catching this from a grocery story, large interior volume, high ceilings, constantly moving, no touching people, next to nothing. Chances for the Cashiers or workers? Much higher. Exposure X time. Stay away from people indoors. No touching.

Now about age. From the CDC


and from the worldmeter


IF someone catches it, over 50 98.7% live., over 70, 92% live, over 85 85.2% live. Remember to ignore the media. They like to talk about death. If it bleeds, it leads. Some perspective. Obviously, its really bad, but its NO WHERE near as bad as say Smallpox where only 70% live and 30% die. Yes, I purposely use the positive numbers the opposite of journalists. The glass is half full. Chances are GREATLY in your favor that you will live. Those are ALL cases including with underlying conditions.

Point 2. Yes, its bad the older you get. So, IF you catch it and over 70, theres a 92% chance you live. IMO, its better NOT to catch it.

Now lets do some math. Lets talk cars. This is car forum. Everyday we take a chance. Every day. So we all love our cars to some degree and I doubt there is a car enthusiasts alive who has not gone over the speed limit just a bit? Maybe one mph over? This is pure science, pure physics. The formulas do NOT change. There is no argument here, no "modeling". Newtonian physics is, literally, Physics 101 in college.

Over the years cars have been getting better and better. Gone are the iron deathtraps replaced with seat belts, air bags, and crumble zones, all things that reduce the amount of kinetic energy to the body. But in the end, its all in the numbers.

You can do the math yourself


Or just run it through a calculator


In then end, its simple, force is not linear, its the square of the velocity. Kinetic Energy =1/2MV(squared) IOW, the force of deceleration from hitting a tree at 30 MPH vs 60 MPH is not twice as bad but 4 times as bad. I'm pretty sure of this. And yet, every day people speed. They gamble. They take that chance by driving at 90 MPH instead of 60 MPH. They think they are going to live? Or they think their driving skills are better than that deer coming out on the dark road. And every day people die because they weren't as good as they thought they were.

This has happened since cars were invented. People take chances.

So to be serious here, we all take the chances we are comfortable with. As we age, we got to respect that aging. We don't think we are as invincible as when 21. We know we are slowing down and becoming more fragile.

So IMO, ignore pressure from everyone. Do the research. See what the scientists say is going on. IMO

1. Totally ignore the press' opinions. They are pretty useless. They want to sell clicks or sell their political philosophy. Its not 1965 and they are not Walter Cronkite.
2. Read the science papers that are referenced. Believe in Science? Read the science. Not model, hard empirical data.
3. You decide what is comfortable to you. In the end, its you that matters, not some reporter, not some politician.

:) Life is short. Enjoy every minute of it. Only you can decide what your happy with. Remember when you might have speeded more than you know you should have? Why did you decide to do that, if you did speed? Why take the risk? Now compare to today. Perspective.

You can take it to the bank that if you hit a tree at 90 chances are slim you are walking away. Probability of living? Maybe 1%? Meanwhile, get this virus, over 70, probability is 92%. But what is the probability with the mitigation efforts like wearing a N95 mask and not touching anyone? 99.9% because its the probability of catching it times the probability of living.

As time goes by, my guess is that we all become more relaxed. Just like the speeders, they relax, think nothing will happen. They driver faster and faster. As the years go by they become more confident they won't get a ticket won't get into an accident. Then one day, a deer comes out of nowhere. Boom, or there is rain or ice on the road, etc. Same here, we pay our money and take our chances.

IOW, drive at 90, hit a tree, you dead, 99.9% you dead.
Smoke cigarettes all your life, drink heavy all your life, you know life will be shorter
Take precautions with the virus? What are the odds you catch it with precautions TIMES what is the probability of not being seriously sick or dying. You got to do the math. As they say, trust in the science?

We make these calculations every day in about everything we do. Want to drink some bleach? NOT a good thing to do. That berry look ripe? Is it edible? You going to chance it? Look both ways crossing the street? Probably a good idea rather than just walking into traffic. etc etc etc
 

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The exodus began three years ago and the lockdowns will only accelerate it. For example, from NBC


Biggest loser states? CA, IL, and MI. This was written in 2/19. Is anyone surprised that these are the three states where many view the Executives dictatorial? Which three states are constantly in the national news regarding lockdowns? 🤔 Its like NBC was foreshadowing. When this is over, watch the explosion of moves.

And then there is Elon Musk, champion of clean energy, fed up with CA and moving his company out.


Was this just a pressure tactic because he's suing the county? Or Real? No, its real. He's selling his houses





I know from personal experience someone who got fed up with where they lived, particularly with what the education system was, or was not, teaching their kids, fed up with the far left progressive attitudes, etc, sold the house, and just left. It does happen. I was kind of shocked to see that.

And now, just watch the exodus as the vast middle ground, not the extremes to the left or right but those that just get by their lives every day and pay little or no attention to much of anything, wake up and find themselves with no jobs, their one or two person businesses gone, and find what what its really like living under the systems they voted for. Everyone gets what they deserved. They made those choice. But now, today, everyone gets to see what they really voted for. Their choice. There will be a reckoning not only with China supply chains but internally. Everyone will get to choose when their Executives come up for election. Some love it. Some hate it. Its the trends to watch for. Not choosing sides, just showing the data.

In the end, it will sort itself out. Every state gets exactly what they voted for.
I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country. I moved here 20 years ago, paid all my taxes, became a citizen legally but I am really concerned the way we are going. The fact that Governors can dictate how we live is dangerous and yes the only way for them to ensure lockdown stays in place until a vaccine is found is by raising taxes. I live in MN for the last 15 years. Love the place, amazing to raise kids but politically it is going downhill. Just look what the people here vote to represent us in Congress. Now we have a Governor that doesn't understand that protecting nursing homes would drastically reduce the deaths here. Barber shops, gyms, local coffee shops are still closes for over 3 months and now guess what? They are debating for a full week if they will allow the MN State Fair happen in July. For those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc... Are you serious? How come they are still debating if that will happen? That should be a NO since January. My boys won't have soccer camps this summer because he thinks it is too dangerous but he is still considering a State Fair? I am so fortunate I have 3 passports so if I get too tired I am moving on.
 

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A legitimate concern. Lets look at real data, not models. Like the Martian, lets science the **** out of this? Start here. 2007. After reading this about fomites, you will never leave the house again. :eek: Howie Mandel was right.

Significance of Fomites in the Spread of Respiratory and Enteric Viral Disease



Now read this. Mutating? Not so much to worry about


Now the serious things, from JHU. Read slow and careful about transmission. Fomites. Go back and read the good doctor about to get the disease on a fomites, someone basically has to cough on a doorknob, you grab it, and then stick your hand on your face. Can happen? Sure. What is the probability. We'll come back to probabilities.


One of the JHU videos from that big article. Again, don't worry so much about fomites. The early studies were not too good and the particles not viable.





All handshakes, hugs - touching. No conclusion on fomites.

That leaves the real transmission places. Interiors, crowds, touching people, all bad and we know that.

Point 1. You know how to avoid this and previous articles stated. Stay our of crowded interiors. For example, chances of catching this from a grocery story, large interior volume, high ceilings, constantly moving, no touching people, next to nothing. Chances for the Cashiers or workers? Much higher. Exposure X time. Stay away from people indoors. No touching.

Now about age. From the CDC


and from the worldmeter


IF someone catches it, over 50 98.7% live., over 70, 92% live, over 85 85.2% live. Remember to ignore the media. They like to talk about death. If it bleeds, it leads. Some perspective. Obviously, its really bad, but its NO WHERE near as bad as say Smallpox where only 70% live and 30% die. Yes, I purposely use the positive numbers the opposite of journalists. The glass is half full. Chances are GREATLY in your favor that you will live. Those are ALL cases including with underlying conditions.

Point 2. Yes, its bad the older you get. So, IF you catch it and over 70, theres a 92% chance you live. IMO, its better NOT to catch it.

Now lets do some math. Lets talk cars. This is car forum. Everyday we take a chance. Every day. So we all love our cars to some degree and I doubt there is a car enthusiasts alive who has not gone over the speed limit just a bit? Maybe one mph over? This is pure science, pure physics. The formulas do NOT change. There is no argument here, no "modeling". Newtonian physics is, literally, Physics 101 in college.

Over the years cars have been getting better and better. Gone are the iron deathtraps replaced with seat belts, air bags, and crumble zones, all things that reduce the amount of kinetic energy to the body. But in the end, its all in the numbers.

You can do the math yourself


Or just run it through a calculator


In then end, its simple, force is not linear, its the square of the velocity. Kinetic Energy =1/2MV(squared) IOW, the force of deceleration from hitting a tree at 30 MPH vs 60 MPH is not twice as bad but 4 times as bad. I'm pretty sure of this. And yet, every day people speed. They gamble. They take that chance by driving at 90 MPH instead of 60 MPH. They think they are going to live? Or they think their driving skills are better than that deer coming out on the dark road. And every day people die because they weren't as good as they thought they were.

This has happened since cars were invented. People take chances.

So to be serious here, we all take the chances we are comfortable with. As we age, we got to respect that aging. We don't think we are as invincible as when 21. We know we are slowing down and becoming more fragile.

So IMO, ignore pressure from everyone. Do the research. See what the scientists say is going on. IMO

1. Totally ignore the press' opinions. They are pretty useless. They want to sell clicks or sell their political philosophy. Its not 1965 and they are not Walter Cronkite.
2. Read the science papers that are referenced. Believe in Science? Read the science. Not model, hard empirical data.
3. You decide what is comfortable to you. In the end, its you that matters, not some reporter, not some politician.

:) Life is short. Enjoy every minute of it. Only you can decide what your happy with. Remember when you might have speeded more than you know you should have? Why did you decide to do that, if you did speed? Why take the risk? Now compare to today. Perspective.

You can take it to the bank that if you hit a tree at 90 chances are slim you are walking away. Probability of living? Maybe 1%? Meanwhile, get this virus, over 70, probability is 92%. But what is the probability with the mitigation efforts like wearing a N95 mask and not touching anyone? 99.9% because its the probability of catching it times the probability of living.

As time goes by, my guess is that we all become more relaxed. Just like the speeders, they relax, think nothing will happen. They driver faster and faster. As the years go by they become more confident they won't get a ticket won't get into an accident. Then one day, a deer comes out of nowhere. Boom, or there is rain or ice on the road, etc. Same here, we pay our money and take our chances.

IOW, drive at 90, hit a tree, you dead, 99.9% you dead.
Smoke cigarettes all your life, drink heavy all your life, you know life will be shorter
Take precautions with the virus? What are the odds you catch it with precautions TIMES what is the probability of not being seriously sick or dying. You got to do the math. As they say, trust in the science?

We make these calculations every day in about everything we do. Want to drink some bleach? NOT a good thing to do. That berry look ripe? Is it edible? You going to chance it? Look both ways crossing the street? Probably a good idea rather than just walking into traffic. etc etc etc
Excellent summary Grim. Life is full of risks and choices. Your observation on probability of being infected x probability of dying covers it all. Manage both parts of your personal equation.

I’ll just offer one observation. I expect it will eventually be studied and quantified. We see bad outcomes with pre-existing conditions regardless of age. We also see steadily worse outcomes with age. But are these really independent factors? Remember the early data from Italy? The average age of fatal infections was very high, 80 or so? Yet only 1% of fatalities lacked one or more pre-existing conditions. Half had 3 or more! How did the elderly without such conditions fare? Pretty well apparently.

It seems likely that age may turn out to be a factor only to the extent it’s accompanied by one of these conditions. I’m going to assume that healthy aging is not a risk factor.
 

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Beg to differ, tastes even better with good vodka! :cool:
 

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Beg to differ, tastes even better with good vodka! :cool:
I see a taste comparison in my future! You’ve reminded me of the guy who said gin is just “ruined vodka”. I’m learning to appreciate Hendrick’s though.
 

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I see a taste comparison in my future! You’ve reminded me of the guy who said gin is just “ruined vodka”. I’m learning to appreciate Hendrick’s though.
Just make sure it's good vodka!! I like Belvedere, but then I biased because of my heritage! ;)
 

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Excellent summary Grim. Life is full of risks and choices. Your observation on probability of being infected x probability of dying covers it all. Manage both parts of your personal equation.

I’ll just offer one observation. I expect it will eventually be studied and quantified. We see bad outcomes with pre-existing conditions regardless of age. We also see steadily worse outcomes with age. But are these really independent factors?
Thanks. The numbers are for all the people in the age group, regardless of whether they are already dying or were healthy. I've seen examples of deaths with the other factors but no real study.
 

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I am seriously getting tired of the political BS in this country.
Ignore it. Seriously, don't pay it an attention. The media WANTS you to feed of it. You feed, they make money. Remember Pareto. From Pew, which is independent as it gets

the Twitter conversation about national politics among U.S. adult users is driven by a small number of prolific political tweeters. These users make up just 6% of all U.S. adults with public accounts on the site, but they account for 73% of tweets from American adults that mention national politics.
So that would be the 94/6 rule. 73% of political tweets are made by 6% of those who tweet.
A small group of prolific users account for a majority of political tweets sent by U.S. adults 22% of adults use tweeter, so 78% don't. Where's my calculator? So political commentary on Twitter is done by 1.3% of the adult population.

Like I said, ignore them all. The guy down the street isn't paying an attention to any of this. He's too busy yelling at his kids and trying to figure out how to buy groceries on unemployment.

Or the other way to look at is: Those that yell the loudest does NOT mean that is how the majority votes. Far from it and that holds true regardless of political beliefs. It the silent majority of this country that decides. Its the man or woman who when the pollster calls, although having an opinion, is just furious they are being interrupted over nonsense questions. IOW, its nowhere as bad as it sounds. Most people have no idea who their congressperson is. Now ask them who their STATE representative might be and watching their blank faces.

.... or those who never heard of the State Fair, it is a big event that every year brings millions of people with concerts, expos, food, etc...
:ROFLMAO: State Fair. Is there an American Alive who has not heard of State Fair? Or been to one? Its part of Americana :) Even I have been to a state fair. Although I haven't watched the movies because musicals aren't my thing.

When I was a kid when the carnival came to town, it was the thing to go! State Fairs were huge affairs. Yeah, money. Imagine the taxes the collect on that.


 
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