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Some more evidence that ICEVs may be on the way out quicker than many people think:

:) Yes, would you not be irritated if the company you worked for might automate or take away some jobs? What employee would not? But lets look at this beyond some article In Bloomberg.


"Issues
The Free Press is told these are the key unresolved issues, and all of them appear to be tough to settle, with both sides holding firm to their positions:

  • UAW workers' share of health care costs
  • Temporary workers
  • Wage increases
  • Building more product in the United States"
I think "EVs" fall under issue #4.


You can read the same four issues: health plan, temp workers, wage increase, and EVs.

Now why do you think Bloomberg ONLY focused on EVs. Lets go to another Bloomberg Article.

Before GM Goes Electric Mary Barra Has a Strike to Settle

Long article. Read it. Its all about China. Imagine that. China China China, See issue #4 above "building more product in the United States". What's going on here? Ahh, Lets see the latest interview on Frontline with Michael Bloomberg. You can watch the video or here is the transcript with Margaret Hoover. Its more effective watching the video as she is in total shock listening to his comments. I don't think she can believe what's he's saying. Transcript is in CAPS but thats what it is:

Q. "SO THE UNITED STATES CURRENTLY ACCOUNTS FOR ABOUT 15% OF GLOBAL GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. CHINA ACCOUNTS FOR ROUGHLY 30% OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.
HOW DO WE — EVEN IF WE GET TO NET ZERO, HOW DO YOU GET CHINA, INDIA AND THE OTHER COUNTRIES TO BE GOOD PARTNERS ...
YES, THEY’RE STILL BUILDING A LOT OF COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS —
AND THEY’RE STILL BURNING COAL"

A. "YES, THEY ARE, BUT THEY’RE NOW MOVING PLANTS AWAY FROM THE CITIES."

What? That makes sense? No wonder she's in shock.

A. XI JINGPING IS NOT A DICTATOR, HE HAS TO SATISFY HIS CONSTITUENTS OR HE’S NOT GOING TO SURVIVE.

:rolleyes: The President for Life is not a dictator?

A. NO.
HE HAS A CONSTITUENCY TO ANSWER TO.

What? Communist party has a constituency?

Q.
HE DOESN’T HAVE A VOTE.
HE DOESN’T HAVE A DEMOCRACY.
HE’S NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY VOTERS.

A. NO GOVERNMENT SURVIVES WITHOUT THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF ITS PEOPLE.
OKAY?

Really? How'd was that for all the dictators throughout history that DID thrive without the will of the majority. Read a history book.

So, Why is he pushing "China is Good, not a dictator, and no answer to the 30% of emissions coming from China"? Why is GM pushing to sell EVs in China? Why does that article you referenced even exist when its only ONE of the four UAW issues?

Everything is intertwined and much of what is really going on is never seen unless you dig. Who knows what is going on here. And if you don't believe any of this, just look

Take a good close look here. https://www.windy.com/39.906/116.391?cosc,17.225,144.009,3,m:eLFajo8

There is far more here than meets the eye. And one article about with Bloomberg writers about one aspect of the UAW strike doesn't mean much unless you know the full agenda of what is going on. Who is pushing for what and why? Who has vested interests in this all. Who has the most to lose? Just questions.
 

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To the original poster's question: when have human phenomenons ever stopped? Human technology evolves and weaves in interesting ways, but you can still buy buggy whips today if that's your passion.

The first vehicle Ferdinand Porsche helped develop:

In 1899, the first prototypes were 2wd battery electrics. Later models were 4wd series hybrid, and its powertrain continued to be developed for even larger commercial vehicles. NASA studied the Lohner Werkes car when developing the lunar rover.

Human technology does not die. It gets repurposed.
 

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Here's an interesting article on the move toward EVs, with improvements in battery technology and cost and charging infrastructure:


An excerpt:

At some point there will be a charging-station mini-bubble as companies raise capital and do a land grab. Grocery stores will use charging stations to attract customers. Charging stations will be in all parking lots, from restaurants to office buildings. Electric vehicle (EV) charging will be a gold rush, while gas stations will be just another relic of a bygone age, like phone booths and cassette tapes. Future EV batteries will have greater range, last longer, and charge faster.

The transition from internal combustion engine (ICE) cars to electric vehicles is a bit like the transition our ancestors went through when society switched from horses to gasoline-powered cars. At first, people wondered how they would “feed” those cars (grass was more plentiful than gasoline), whether they would have decent roads to actually drive anywhere, and whether cars would be crashing into pedestrians and each other. The shift from horses to cars required a completely new paradigm.
 

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Here's an interesting article on the move toward EVs, with improvements in battery technology and cost and charging infrastructure:
:) Who wrote that article? Ahh "my Tesla", a Tesla Owner

What is that article about? "My prediction"

What are his qualifications to make such a prediction that we should believe? Look at the end. It points to what he's selling http://contrarianedge.com/how-investors-should-deal-with-the-overwhelming-problem-of-understanding-the-world-economy/

Oops, can't read it. You got to sign up for his newsletter. :( He wants to sell you something.

Yeah, not going to believe much of anything by people selling something. But here's something you might like. I'll bet you haven't seen this on the major networks, any of them. In fact, you probably haven't read much of this at all in anywhere unless its an environmental blog complaining.

Coastal Plain Oil and Gas Leasing Program Final Environmental Impact Statement

Anyone reporting on this? What is it? Lets jump to the important part. This is the environmental impact statement for drilling in the ANWR released last month. Funny, MSM isn't reporting on this. :rolleyes:

"The BLM will establish and administer an oil and gas leasing program for the Coastal Plain in the Arctic Refuge, as required by PL 115-97. ... The Leasing EIS will serve to inform the BLM’s implementation of PL 115-97, Section 20001(c)(1), which is the requirement to hold multiple lease sales. ...

Alternative B is the BLM’s preferred alternative. It offers the opportunity to lease the entire program area, and there would be the fewest acres with no surface occupancy (NSO) stipulations. In addition to applicable lease stipulations, several ROPs would apply to post-lease oil and gas activities to reduce potential impacts. Approximately 1,563,500 acres would be offered for lease ..."

How much oil is in ANWR? From the USGS

"The total quantity of technically recoverable oil within the entire assessment area is estimated to be between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels (95-percent and 5- percent probability range), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels."

What will this do to the price of gas and strengthen the USA's energy independence. Funny how these things don't get into the media. I wonder why? :)
 

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An inconvenient Electric Vehicle truth:

1) A gallon of gas = 33+KWH of energy. So Tesla's biggest battery, which I believe stores up to 100 KWH = approximately 3 gallons of gas in energy storage.

The battery storage capacities, charge times and battery life issues are the critical EV issue from my perspective. And until or if they are ever resolved -cost effectively, which by default means -without GOVERNMENT subsidies, that is when or if they ever make economic sense and are free-market competitively profitable, electric vehicles can not and do not compete on a large scale with existing gasoline powered vehicles and the existing supporting petroleum infrastructure.

And when and if the claimed 'catastrophic' is recognized as not a catastrophe about to happen. That higher CO2 levels are not causing anything approaching catastrophic. And that most likely, our burning fossil fuels is not even the major contributing cause of the increasing CO2 levels.

Basically when and if clear and accurate thinking and speaking starts taking place. Then maybe this whole electric vehicle nonsense can be just a sad , costly, memory. Hopefully it won't bankrupt Porsche in the meantime. It is bad enough that the wasted R+D money is money that we pay in higher prices/cost of our Porsches, not to mention what improvements to our gas powered Porsches that money could have been producing for us.
 

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Actually, global warming is accelerating at an alarming rate. Responsible governments are doing something because they need to do so for the benefit of mankind. In an unregulated capitalistic society, corporations will just kill the planet to make money, because they don't care and have no soul. Having government subsidies to move from ICEVs to BEVs (or move from fossil-fuel extraction/delivery to renewable-resource energy) is logical on many fronts, because it will reduce air pollution and it will create many jobs. This isn't about "you" and your selfish wishes/desires or your lack of caring for the earth or your fellow man; this is about the world as a whole, and people as a whole. We no longer live in a "tiny" world where most of your influences are local; we live in a global world now where many things affect many people across boundaries. I applaud countries for pushing for BEVs, and am glad that Porsche is one of the companies that will lead the way. In my opinion and the opinions of a great many people, government incentives to get rid of fossil-fueled cars are logical, fair, and good.
 

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And when and if the claimed 'catastrophic' is recognized as not a catastrophe about to happen. That higher CO2 levels are not causing anything approaching catastrophic. And that most likely, our burning fossil fuels is not even the major contributing cause of the increasing CO2 levels.

Basically when and if clear and accurate thinking and speaking starts taking place........
This is really the wrong place to assert controversial theories...but since you did: Personally, I find it difficult to disagree with the vast number of folks in the scientific community who tell us that we are in a period of global warming and that CO2 contributes to and is accelerating it. How much cars vs cows contribute is valid, but if CO2 is the fundamental problem, anything that can be done to slow it sounds good to me....and I like breathing cleaner air, in general.....so I applaud any effort to keep any pollutants out of the air.

I believe I'm thinking clearly and accurately understanding the multiple, ongoing reports about global warming.

1) A gallon of gas = 33+KWH of energy. So Tesla's biggest battery, which I believe stores up to 100 KWH = approximately 3 gallons of gas in energy storage.
one gallon of gas nominally costs $3.00 ($3/gal)......33KWH hours of electricity costs nominally $3.00 (.10/KWH) . Not sure what you are pointing out. The government is subsidizing both ethanol and electric cars. Not sure where that discussion goes.....

As far as driving, my personal experience occasionally driving Tesla 3's and S's is that electric power is far more responsive, quieter and has less moving parts....irrespective of one's belief in CO2 effects. Given the right infrastructure, battery life, charging time and so on, I'm anxious to move to an electric car....oh, and let's not forget....at a rational price (eg. not the Taycan S Turbo price level).
 

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I don't expect to change the minds of those who have already made up their minds. Time will tell who is right. I stand by my understanding of what is really going on, from my own research and my own first hand understanding of the facts as I understand them. Happy to explain further any of the points I made to anyone who is sincerely interested in a discussion of facts without resorting to ill-formed second handed 'consensus' opinions as being the -how dare you- unquestionable truth.

Best wishes to all.
 

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Given the right infrastructure, battery life, charging time
That is one of my main points.

This is really the wrong place to assert controversial theories
Really? Two things- 1)The topic of this post implies the validity of AGW, so I feel it is appropriate to assert away. 2) Controversial theories?? As if AGW is not at all controversial.
 

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I'm done with the whole EV drama, I have no interest in owning one, until they shove it down my throat and I have no choice its ICE only for me.
 

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Well, let's hope for our beloved Porsche AG that the EV revolution is a huge success in the coming decade. They are, as grim has written, being forced to go the EV route. Here's an interesting article posted today on the EV revolution in Germany, in particular, which shows how the German auto industry must succeed with their EVs or go extinct:


The Der Spiegel article linked to therein is also interesting reading.
 

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Looks like everybody is getting into the EV market. Ford announced yesterday a new SUV named the Mustang Mach-E and will give the Tesla Model Y a run for their money. Speaking of cost, depending on model they will cost between $44,000-$60,000. The top performance model (459hp/612tq) will have a 0-60 time of 3.5 seconds and they stated it "will be faster than a Macan Turbo". It will come with either the standard 75.7 kwh battery good for a range of 210 miles or a 98.9 kwh battery with a range of 300 miles, the same as the Model Y. It will also have a hands free driving assist system just like the Tesla. It even resembles the Model Y. I hate to say it, but this is a lot of car for the money!
 

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Yes, the Mach-E looks good, actually, and Ford buyers will get the full $7500 federal tax credit in the USA, plus any other state rebates (we get $1000 extra in my state) -- so that'll make it very affordable for a lot of people. As more mainstream automakers come out with EVs that look good (as opposed to EVs such as the Bolt, Leaf, Prius Prime, BMW i3, etc.) and have decent range/performance/price, more and more people will be drawn to EVs. This will not be a short-lived thing; too many automakers are pouring too many billions into this for it to be a short-lived fling, and they're competing against each other to make ever-better EVs, and like with anything made in large numbers, the prices will come down for components and for final products in the near future. PCs were incredibly expensive when they first came out in the early 1980s, but competition and investment led quickly to faster computers that were much cheaper for the masses. The same will happen with EVs. And I think that the Macan BEV will be a big hit when it comes out; the Taycan looks very cool inside and out, and the tech (including instrument and infotainment screens) developed for the Taycan will go into the Macan BEV. Exciting times ...
 

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Come on with current technology, EV cars are pulling 3.5 seconds and 2.5 seconds in the 0 to 60 MPH.

GAS cars are dead, the technology of GAS is a "Baby Boomer" technology in five year 70% of the new cars will be electric.

The EV's have been around since I worked in the GM EV R&D center in 1995, even back then EV's were pulling 180 MPH -

Gas cars are going the way of the Commodore 64.

Especially when it comes to Luxury and speed EV's will dominate very quickly.
 

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