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I sum this all up in one word -- Indoctrination .

It starts with promoting whatever agenda they desire in a manner where people stop questioning and simply believe . Enter the preacher (I mean Mr Seba ) with a sermon fit for a TV audience of sheep like zombies who nod their heads . With leaders viewed as inerrant the hidden agendas , deceit , and exploitation process begins . The effort is made to silence dissent and reward the flock ( money, praise , and an overall sense that they made the right choice even though it never was a choice).

Maybe the 3-5 year prediction is a speculated timeline to produce a cult belief and the hope to implement the legislature to secure it.

They already got a few on board here .

Honestly @grim -- its one of those debates that just ends up being a waste of time . I do commend your patience and effort .
Or you can in this case turn it around and say that those stuck in the past and don't want things to change to the better are zombies bought by the oil industry preachers, their hidden agendas and their economic interests.
 

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As a former New "Yorker" resident (but still working here...), I'm genuinely confused why you think EV vs ICE (or hybrid?) cab service is bad
I didn't say that. Did you read the articles? I said TaaS, the technique being marketed that says if you can't get people to actually BUY an EV, then convince them to "share" an EV is being pushed. It a means to PUSH people into doing what "they" want you to do. TAKE ALL CARS AWAY FROM YOU. You don't even have to READ BETWEEN THE LINES. They SAY IT UP FRONT.

NO MORE CARS FOR YOU.

Think about that.

First, read this, as an example, which I posted a few posts up. From 2013 IEEE Xplore Full-Text PDF: It clearly and precisely says, summarizing: Car sharing is the killer app for EV. They are getting desperate to push what they want pushed. Make a killer App. This isn't a cab. This isn't Uber. You own nothing. If they can't get you to BUY an EV, then you don't get to buy anything. "WE" will own the cars and let you use them.

This technique is a fundamental push away from personal auto ownership. If you don't believe, go to @Luke video, Tony Seba stuff. READ the actual report https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...30c5/1494888038959/RethinkX+Report_051517.pdf This was published May, 2017, almost FOUR YEARS after the IEEE article. There is nothing new here. Like I Said, go to the SOURCE material and the repackaged material. Go to the original business management discussion in the Harvard Business Review to learn about Disruptive Technologies, not someone other pushing EV by using this 20 year old technique. And TaaS, now four years later, granted he is a futurists making predictions ...

"Vehicle users will stop owning vehicles altogether, and will instead access them when needed. The TaaS disruption will end the model of car ownership itself."

Can this be any clearly. They don't want you to have a choice. They don't want you to own anything. That car you have in your driveway, apartment, house, wherever, no more car for you. No more personal ownership. No more changing models by leasing when you feel like it. No, just as the IEEE article discusses, its all over. Is this socialism vs capitalism? Think.

As an aside, I read this bit to my wife last night and she nearly spit her food out. Sure, in the USA you are going to tell its citizens that they cannot buy the car of their choice, not the color, not the model, not wash and wax it, not look and admire it, not appreciate it, and to continue her thought ... not mod it, not buy accessories for it, no more SEMA, no more gun racks on the back of pickups, no more etc. etc. etc. What did they use to say: "They company store owns your soul"?

Or to put it more in her words, summarize, "You mean I have to wait until there is a free car that meets MY NEEDS, in the color I want, in the model I want". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: There isn't a laughing icon big enough.
 

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For us, one of the big reasons we purchased the Macan was the space for our road trips & packing stuff to our cabin.
In BC, there are only a few roads that take us from the Vancouver area to rest of the province, and very often, there are accidents, snow falls, rock slides, and most recently wild fires, that block these main access roads.
If you had to detour because of one these iblockages, they are through the mountains and towns are often few & far between. So if you could make it to a charging station, there would be many others waiting along with you for a turn to charge up.

What if I had an EV in 100 Miles House last week? With the fires, there was an evacuation notice. Many of these people had to drive 5-6 hours North to a town that was providing shelter etc for them. Not going to happen in an EV.

Same as our cabin. No AC electricity there to charge.

Would I consider an EV Cayman? Probably, as that would just be my fun car and probably would not be taking it on our 8,000 road trips.
For the Macan, at this point in EV range, no I would not want one for my needs.
Granted most of my trips are 25km round trip to work & back, but that only consumes 3 litres of fuel.
 

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The resistance is still alive:
Foreign carmakers call on China to soften electric car quotas | Reuters

Policy vs Reality:
"The proposed rules' ambitious enforcement date is not possible to meet, and if unchanged would lead to a widespread disruption of the product portfolio of most automakers operating in China. At a minimum, the mandate needs to be delayed a year and include additional flexibilities,"

Good to see all the car makers finally joining forces. I fear that will be the only way to combat a future government regulation overreach in the US as well:
"The letter, addressed to China's Minister of Industry and Information Technology, dated June 18, signed by the American Automotive Policy Council (AAPC), the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA), the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA) and the Korea Automobile Manufacturers Association (KAMA) called penalties for non-compliance unnecessarily excessive."
 

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I sum this all up in one word -- Indoctrination .

It starts with promoting whatever agenda they desire in a manner where people stop questioning and simply believe . Enter the preacher (I mean Mr Seba ) with a sermon fit for a TV audience of sheep like zombies who nod their heads . With leaders viewed as inerrant the hidden agendas , deceit , and exploitation process begins . The effort is made to silence dissent and reward the flock ( money, praise , and an overall sense that they made the right choice even though it never was a choice).

Maybe the 3-5 year prediction is a speculated timeline to produce a cult belief and the hope to implement the legislature to secure it.

They already got a few on board here .

Honestly @grim -- its one of those debates that just ends up being a waste of time . I do commend your patience and effort .
Thanks, and yes, its a pointless debate. Without getting into what is discussed, just turn on your TV, ANY of the cable news stations, it doesn't matter which one, and all you see are liked minded people saying

"This is good bad"
"yup good/bad"
"really good/bad"

Echo chambers. They have chosen sides on whatever is the subject of the day. Insert someone with another opinion and they now just yell at each other, exactly what is happening here. Since Macan is going EV, I need to figure out what to do with these discussions. They are going to happen, its inevitable. Europe's path is chosen. There will be no choice. Not in the US.

I also understand that perhaps that because we have members from other countries, they might, or might not, have a real understanding of how offensive it is to some Americans to take away what they believe are fundamental freedoms. While, driving or buying anything they want is not in the Bill of Rights, what you are calling CHOICE is certainly something that when the ability to CHOOSE is taken away (think Prohibition) it goes very poorly for those who take away choice). Maybe not elsewhere. No idea. Just talking USA.

Nobody is going to win any debate here, just sides are drawn, lines set, and argue argue argue. People get upset, and the VERY reason why there is no politics, no religion rule is to STOP the insults, STOP the flaming.
 

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I didn't say that. Did you read the articles? I said TaaS, the technique being marketed that says if you can't get people to actually BUY an EV, then convince them to "share" an EV is being pushed. It a means to PUSH people into doing what "they" want you to do. TAKE ALL CARS AWAY FROM YOU. You don't even have to READ BETWEEN THE LINES. They SAY IT UP FRONT.

NO MORE CARS FOR YOU.

Think about that.
I sure did, now twice. The thing is, since 2000, ZipCar has been around in NYC, Boston, & nationwide. It's really nothing new. But people who need one daily or just want their own still buy cars to garage for $600/month. It's their choice. :D

But, shared car service obviously wouldn't do well in a sprawling suburb. So, the usefulness of such a service really depends on the locale, and is not necessarily a threat to ownership.

On the other hand, Zermatt had already banned ICE cars a while back. I thought it was bizarre, but you know what, it was actually pretty darn nice just walking around everywhere on wide open pedestrian roads without noise and exhaust. Then again, it's a mountain tourist town. Dallas would not have been fun if I'd walked everywhere. Different locales, different needs... :)
 

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I sure did, now twice. The thing is, since 2000, ZipCar has been around in NYC, Boston, & nationwide. It's really nothing new. But people who need one daily or just want their own still buy cars to garage for $600/month. It's their choice. :D

But, shared car service obviously wouldn't do well in a sprawling suburb. So, the usefulness of such a service really depends on the locale, and is not necessarily a threat to ownership.

On the other hand, Zermatt had already banned ICE cars a while back. I thought it was bizarre, but you know what, it was actually pretty darn nice just walking around everywhere on wide open pedestrian roads without noise and exhaust. Then again, it's a mountain tourist town. Dallas would not have been fun if I'd walked everywhere. Different locales, different needs... :)
You've been to Zermatt? So now you know why the Toblerone chocolate bars have that shape. However, it's not that Zermatt has banned ICE cars exclusively; all private cars are banned in the village, thus even if one goes there in a Tesla or any other electric car, the vehicle will have to be parked latest in Tasch. Only authorized public service cars (which are indeed electric) are allowed Up from Tasch.
 

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Thanks Skinsfan! :)

I actually didn't take delivery of the PP and went another route. Hope that you enjoy yours a lot! Have just read good things about it.[/QUOTE

Luke...if you don't mind sharing what route did you take instead of getting a Turbo PP
 

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Discussion Starter · #150 ·
For us, one of the big reasons we purchased the Macan was the space for our road trips & packing stuff to our cabin.
In BC, there are only a few roads that take us from the Vancouver area to rest of the province, and very often, there are accidents, snow falls, rock slides, and most recently wild fires, that block these main access roads.
If you had to detour because of one these iblockages, they are through the mountains and towns are often few & far between. So if you could make it to a charging station, there would be many others waiting along with you for a turn to charge up.

What if I had an EV in 100 Miles House last week? With the fires, there was an evacuation notice. Many of these people had to drive 5-6 hours North to a town that was providing shelter etc for them. Not going to happen in an EV.

Same as our cabin. No AC electricity there to charge.

Would I consider an EV Cayman? Probably, as that would just be my fun car and probably would not be taking it on our 8,000 road trips.
For the Macan, at this point in EV range, no I would not want one for my needs.
Granted most of my trips are 25km round trip to work & back, but that only consumes 3 litres of fuel.
Those wild fires in B.C. are a big concern for us here too, and hope you guys pull through as best as possible this summer. On a personal note, one of my nephews is out there with his contingent of fellow firemen from Ontario, to fight these horrible fires.

In the event of these major fire outbreaks, transportation becomes a challenge, whether it's EV or gasoline. Driving in smoke-filled areas, except for emergencies, is obviously hazardous; young kids and the elderly being the most vulnerable and really, travel must be limited to shorter distances if possible.

I remember those unspeakable Fort McMurray wildfires last year - gas stations were closed too and there were huge lines of cars and trucks waiting to fill up. By comparison, the 450-550 km range of a Bolt EV or Tesla Model S P100D EV respectively, is certainly a good thing, as an EV has the opportunity to always be able to start out fully charged every day if it's plugged in at home overnight - gasoline/diesel cars of course have to go to a gas station for that. Even on the road, there are more opportunities than one might think to charge up on a normal 115v outdoor plug at many businesses (the ever present Tim Hortons are one example - besides normal 115v plugs, they're installing high voltage Level2 charging stations all across the country at their "café" stops), and even private residences have been known to help out with emergency EV charging at their outdoor normal household utility plugs.

You mentioned blockages such as accidents and inclement weather related occurrences - another thing about EVs is that, unlike a gasoline car, stop-and-go traffic events such as accidents etc. do not hurt their range - they do not consume energy from the big main battery while stopped.

However, I agree that at this time, EVs are not at a point (mainly because of lack of charging infrastructure) where they can be let loose to serve every situation, and must instead be viewed as a vehicle for use in a territory that is clearly understood in terms of its limitations. But their progress is marching along on many fronts to address just those very issues you mention, and who knows what five or six years from now will be like...
 

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Bit of clarification.
I know the EV's, when stopped waiting for traffic etc, do not use any juice.
But if there is a detour due to one of these events, it can be an 800 detour.
This happened to us last fall, trying to get to Edmonton. We were almost at Jasper ( well the main gate), when we were informed of a rock slide. We were maybe 4 hours from Jasper, with Thanksgiving Dinner in our vehicle, people waiting for us. Our choice was to wait it out ( not idea of how long that would be ), or drive back south through Banff, then up to Edmonton. IIRC that was an 11 hour detour. Shortest route. The other option was just as long but headed North through snow.

I truly see the benefits of EVs in more densely populated areas, daily commutes etc.
And if my wife had an EV, it would always be close to empty, if her gas vehicle habits are any indication of what she would do in an EV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #152 ·
Bit of clarification.
I know the EV's, when stopped waiting for traffic etc, do not use any juice.
But if there is a detour due to one of these events, it can be an 800 detour.
This happened to us last fall, trying to get to Edmonton. We were almost at Jasper ( well the main gate), when we were informed of a rock slide. We were maybe 4 hours from Jasper, with Thanksgiving Dinner in our vehicle, people waiting for us. Our choice was to wait it out ( not idea of how long that would be ), or drive back south through Banff, then up to Edmonton. IIRC that was an 11 hour detour. Shortest route. The other option was just as long but headed North through snow.

I truly see the benefits of EVs in more densely populated areas, daily commutes etc.
And if my wife had an EV, it would always be close to empty, if her gas vehicle habits are any indication of what she would do in an EV.
You have a very good point there regarding those long detours. They can be unpredictable and come out anywhere - EVs don't have an answer for that yet, I think. A few years ago, German friends of ours flew over to stay with us in Canada in July, rented a motorhome in Airdrie, Alberta and drove along the Trans Can via Cochrane and Banff for a nice Rocky Mountain holiday, all the way into the B.C. interior. On their return to Alberta, they had to spend 24 hrs stranded in the park as the rangers closed the park gates because of a sudden snowstorm and a small related avalanche activity (yes in July). Coming from Europe, although they were aware of Canadian weather and had appropriate gear with them, it was still a shocker. They were thankful their 30 foot motorhome had enough fuel in it!

BTW, my wife is convinced your wife would love the wireless charging (Porsche will offer it on their upcoming EVs, we're told) and never be out of charge- just drive in to the garage, park over the wireless charge pad, and voilà - the car is charged overnight :) No fuss, no muss. Last time she timed it, it took her less than a minute to grab the charge cord in the garage, plug it into her old EV, and walk away - super convenient compared to driving around to her favourite gas station, plugging the nozzle into the Macan and waiting for five minutes to fill up. And yes she wants a Macan EV with wireless charging!
 

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Among other car makers, next year Audi will launch a TT-like EV coupé. I have had the chance to see a renderized picture of the prototype and it looks very sexy. If the coming up EV models are really that appealing I guess that will help adoption by people that like cars but are not petrolheads like most of us in this forum are.

But for the next 5 years or so I would still prefer to hedge my bets with a performance hybrid rather than a pure EV. Just imagine a Macan S engine coupled with an electric drive providing instant torque and a few dozens more HP.
 

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8. the "Porscheness"!

Some will say the sound of silence is not Porscheness but the sound of death. Porsche is known for their sounds, not no sound.
Looking back over this thread from several years ago, I just smile when I see comments like this. Porsches are not bought for their sounds, but for their build quality and driving dynamics. People may buy Harleys for their sounds, but that's not why Porsches are bought. BEVs are not going to kill off Porsche. Most people -- even ardent Porsche fans with 911s -- who buy Taycans are saying they can never go back to ICE Porsches, because the Taycan is just so much better in almost every way. I suspect that the Macan BEVs will sell better than the Macan ICEs do, because they will be much better vehicles and more fun to drive.
 

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"I suspect that the Macan BEVs will sell better than the Macan ICEs do, because they will be much better vehicles and more fun to drive. "


They are not going to screw up their best seller!
Porsche has announced that there will be no ICE Macans produced by 2030, and the end will possibly come well before then. The only Porsches made with ICEs in them by 2030 will be 911s. And the latest annual report of Porsche shows that the Cayenne overtook the Macan last year in sales (Cayenne sold more last year than the previous year, and Macan sold considerably less than the previous year).
 
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