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Wife just picked up her new base Macan (directly off dealer lot). Although she is happy with it (she is a multiple-Porsche owner over the years), her first choice would have been to buy an EV version Macan (but not hybrid) right now, had it been available. Why? Because:

1. CEO Oliver Blume, at the Shanghai auto show in April, 2017 said, "...electric cars allow a very sporty driving experience, which fits well with the core value of our brand." Agreed.

2. Macan EV will be an even more dynamically responsive Porsche as the batteries would be mounted at the bottom of the platform, eliminating the higher center of gravity in the current raised-up model because of the high-mounted engine, radiator, gas tank etc. (which would all be eliminated in the EV),

3. Electric motors, which are extremely reliable, only have about 200 moving parts, as opposed to 1200 in the typical internal combustion motor - much lower maintenance costs, which are further enhanced in savings costs by the complete elimination of afore-mentioned other components such as monster engine, radiator, gas tank, emissions hardware and software (sorry, no exotic exhaust systems in an EV), and the PDK transmission (EVs don't have a "transmission"),

4. There is no (ZERO) turbo lag in an EV because there is no turbo, period. Instant and smooth get-up and go torque.

5. There is no need to worry about which version to buy: 4-cyl, 6-cyl, or downsized engines with electric turbos or superchargers, emissions hardware (or software) or any "dishonest" means of coaxing and complying with emissions standards - there are no emissions in an EV, period.

6. Market constriction: judging from the current attitude regarding lack of enthusiasm by Porsche "purists" towards electric mobility regarding the next-gen Macan, only a small percentage of Macan buyers would go the EV route, producing an instant exclusivity for those who go for this sort of thing (important note: exclusivity is not our thing),

7. The unbeatable convenience of never having to go to a gas station, and the ability to charge the car at home via the normal plug in the garage at home in any weather, winter or summer.

8. All the other good things about the Macan would still be there - handsome looks, customizability, quality, the feel (responsiveness and handling) - in short, the "Porscheness"!

Disclaimer: These are just her thoughts, given her situation and her circumstances, and may not apply to everyone/others.
Also, she would only buy a pure EV - would never buy a hybrid Macan as that means none of the elimination of those components mentioned above (notably: engine, transmission, gas tank etc.), but in fact the additional burden of electric batteries and extra hybrid-related componentry. A hybrid, in her view, is a win-win for the dealer (more things to repair) and a lose-lose for the consumer (more repaired things to pay for).
 

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Wife just picked up her new base Macan (directly off dealer lot). Although she is happy with it (she is a multiple-Porsche owner over the years), her first choice would have been to buy an EV version Macan (but not hybrid) right now, had it been available. Why? Because:

1. CEO Oliver Blume, at the Shanghai auto show in April, 2017 said, "...electric cars allow a very sporty driving experience, which fits well with the core value of our brand." Agreed.

2. Macan EV will be an even more dynamically responsive Porsche as the batteries would be mounted at the bottom of the platform, eliminating the higher center of gravity in the current raised-up model because of the high-mounted engine, radiator, gas tank etc. (which would all be eliminated in the EV),

3. Electric motors, which are extremely reliable, only have about 200 moving parts, as opposed to 1200 in the typical internal combustion motor - much lower maintenance costs, which are further enhanced in savings costs by the complete elimination of afore-mentioned other components such as monster engine, radiator, gas tank, emissions hardware and software (sorry, no exotic exhaust systems in an EV), and the PDK transmission (EVs don't have a "transmission"),

4. There is no (ZERO) turbo lag in an EV because there is no turbo, period. Instant and smooth get-up and go torque.

5. There is no need to worry about which version to buy: 4-cyl, 6-cyl, or downsized engines with electric turbos or superchargers, emissions hardware (or software) or any "dishonest" means of coaxing and complying with emissions standards - there are no emissions in an EV, period.

6. Market constriction: judging from the current attitude regarding lack of enthusiasm by Porsche "purists" towards electric mobility regarding the next-gen Macan, only a small percentage of Macan buyers would go the EV route, producing an instant exclusivity for those who go for this sort of thing (important note: exclusivity is not our thing),

7. The unbeatable convenience of never having to go to a gas station, and the ability to charge the car at home via the normal plug in the garage at home in any weather, winter or summer.

8. All the other good things about the Macan would still be there - handsome looks, customizability, quality, the feel (responsiveness and handling) - in short, the "Porscheness"!

Disclaimer: These are just her thoughts, given her situation and her circumstances, and may not apply to everyone/others.
Also, she would only buy a pure EV - would never buy a hybrid Macan as that means none of the elimination of those components mentioned above (notably: engine, transmission, gas tank etc.), but in fact the additional burden of electric batteries and extra hybrid-related componentry. A hybrid, in her view, is a win-win for the dealer (more things to repair) and a lose-lose for the consumer (more repaired things to pay for).
Your wife said this? Very good. Your lucky to have such a smart wife. I can agree with much of this but only question a few. The others I agree with.

3. Electric motors, which are extremely reliable

Is this true. I would think the jury is out. What is the track record of repairs for these new engines that haven't even been built yet? Zero. I don't think you can say that yet. Maybe in 20 years. You know about Early Adopters? They pay a heavy price.

5. Not sure this is a good point. Just look at the joy people get from talking about their GTS or their Turbo. Everyone likes the idea of what they buy is the best trim level. Its human nature. Now if its a toaster? Then true. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

6. instant exclusivity

that can be VERY bad. No interest, no need to produce the parts, lack of trained service, indy's won't care, etc. etc. etc. This is not a good point.

7. The unbeatable convenience of never having to go to a gas station, and the ability to charge the car at home via the normal plug in the garage at home in any weather, winter or summer.

What if you live in a condo? No garage. Then what? How about those older folks in retirement home? No garage. Where do they plug in. Who is going to build out the architecture? How will the utility infrastructure be built out to accommodate the load? These are unknowns.

8. the "Porscheness"!

Some will say the sound of silence is not Porscheness but the sound of death. Porsche is known for their sounds, not no sound.


But I applaud your wife. Many many good points :) Now figure out how to increase the electrical grid and build out all those charging stations and on the side of the road too :)
 

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Wife just picked up her new base Macan (directly off dealer lot). Although she is happy with it (she is a multiple-Porsche owner over the years), her first choice would have been to buy an EV version Macan (but not hybrid) right now, had it been available. Why? Because:


5. There is no need to worry about which version to buy: 4-cyl, 6-cyl, or downsized engines with electric turbos or superchargers, emissions hardware (or software) or any "dishonest" means of coaxing and complying with emissions standards - there are no emissions in an EV, period.
I agree except for a couple of points:

I'll bet ya Porsche marketing will create at least 3 versions of each model with a base, S, and Turbo. Each will have different levels of performance (battery capacity and 0-60MPH performance) and trim. Just look at the number of sub-models of Tesla's Model S and X.

7. The unbeatable convenience of never having to go to a gas station, and the ability to charge the car at home via the normal plug in the garage at home in any weather, winter or summer.
To charge the car at home, you will need higher voltage (220V or 440V) and higher amperage outlets, otherwise it will take all night to charge. Competing for charging stations will become more problematic as the infrastructure lags behind the increasing number of EVs on the road. This may require city and state governments to budget and help build.

I agree we are all headed towards an EV world. I heard on the radio today that by 2025, 15-25% of all vehicles will be EV. I believe Porsche can deliver an EV with Porsche style and performance. Gentlemen and ladies, start your chargers.
;)
 

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I just bought a Torqueedo electric outboard and a new inflatable dinghy for our boat. I'm quite pleased with how much run time I got out of this past weekend. Plenty of range and acceptable power. Smaller, lighter, less moving parts, and VERY quiet. Granted, at $2500 it was a lot more than what a similar HP-rated gas one would have cost me. But then again, that buys me freedom from gas tanks, bad fuel, hoses, on-going maintenance and noise.

Sure, for a lot of people a home-charged vehicle is not going to be ideal. But this is probably not Porsche's target demographic, is it? When we built the new house I had them add a 40A circuit out to the driveway, if just to avoid ripping up drywall to add it later. No EV here yet, but we're ready when the time comes.

As for noise, yeesh, I'm sure purists whinged incessantly about missing the clopping of horseshoes too.

The upside to a lot of technological progress in the past 20 years has been a reduction in electrical use in lots of different kinds of devices. In a fair number of situations the build-out for electrical demands was happening already. Population density, however, is a bigger factor. But more people usually means more customers, more revenue and more pressure put on local utility regulators to get things done.

Engine noise exists because it's a forced by-product of an internal combustion engine, and a pretty recent/temporary phenomenon, at best.

Progress has to start somewhere. I continue to be astounded how much hate those that have no stake in the game will pour onto the debate. If you don't want an EV, don't buy one. But for those that find some appeal in what they offer, why ladle on all the fear-mongering?
 

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As for noise, yeesh, I'm sure purists whinged incessantly about missing the clopping of horseshoes too.
Except for one HUGE difference. If you decide to talk about "Porscheness", they are known for one thing, winning races. While Enzo Ferrari sold cars to race, Ferry Porsche raced to sell cars. And within his line of racing cars, they are known primarily for ONE thing, the wail of the flat 6. Turn that into silence? Then many will tell you its no longer a Porsche. They didn't just put out a 700HP GT2RS, and supposedly they will sell as many as customers want, because customers wanted the sound of silence.

Now I can hear the arguments now. "Porsche will tell you what's a Porsche", etc. But that line won't matter a bit to the corporate bottom line if no one buys them. Comparing IC to horses might work for Priuses and Corollas, but not for this brand whose very existence is based on racing.

(This is all moot anyway. They made their decision on Macans. They are done with IC).
 

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Your wife said this? Very good. Your lucky to have such a smart wife.
Err, @grim? Your posts haven't been historically chauvinistically jerky, so I won't come unhinged & get myself banned, but please reconsider your words. Perhaps you spoke in jest & I'm missing the humor? That may be, but this screams of, "aw, the cute little wifey said something smart", & I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it that way. In any case, This is rather offensive & I don't take offense that easily.
 

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Yep, and you can park in those really tight parking spaces because YOU HAVE FALCON-WING DOORS! The kids can get out easily to run through the parking lot! Unfortunately, Mom (Dad, @Macanakey) can't get out of the friggin' car because the front doors are conventional swing-outs! Who cares, Tesla's are cool! And Mom (Dad) rushed home with the kids from soccer to just beat the EV range, only to realize he FORGOT THE FRIGGIN' PIZZA!! Oh well, a couple hours charging should do it. Who needs pizza now? Actually, I think EV's have tremendous utility and promise. Just don't say that they're the end-all, be-all, totally green, and charging them is carbon-free.
 
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Disclaimer: These are just her thoughts, given her situation and her circumstances, and may not apply to everyone/others.
Also, she would only buy a pure EV - would never buy a hybrid Macan as that means none of the elimination of those components mentioned above (notably: engine, transmission, gas tank etc.), but in fact the additional burden of electric batteries and extra hybrid-related componentry. A hybrid, in her view, is a win-win for the dealer (more things to repair) and a lose-lose for the consumer (more repaired things to pay for).
Translation -- By proxy posting is the ultimate flame suit method of presenting a topic of controversy .
 

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9. Is range anxiety real or just an internet myth?

From reading about EV's this seems to be real depending on temperature, number of hills or mountains you will cross, the speed your driving, etc.
It's real. I talked to one guy today (with a Nissan Laff, er, Leaf) who said the reason some EV drivers go soooo slowly up the miles-long grades here in the mountains is because they're trying not to draw down the battery ("continuous discharge") when they're not sure where the next charging station is. Or they do know, and they know it's farther away than they're comfortable with.

The EV probably makes a great commutermobile, but as noted on another thread elsewhere, I'm not sure they're ready for extended road trips without additional infrastructure. And, as a pedestrian and cyclist, I wish EV's would make more noise -- at least for safety. They can sneak up on you, especially in the dusk hours when the driver doesn't have the lights on.
 

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Volvo Is First Automaker to Offer Electric or Hybrid Only -




This article came out in the news today. Volvo plans to have this done by 2019!!!! As I said before either get on the train or you will be left standing on the platform. I am probably one of the oldest gents on this forum and I welcome change (for the good) and I can not wait to see what Porsche brings to the fight. I may be ready for another Macan by then...;)
 

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It's real. I talked to one guy today (with a Nissan Laff, er, Leaf) who said the reason some EV drivers go soooo slowly up the miles-long grades here in the mountains is because they're trying not to draw down the battery ("continuous discharge") when they're not sure where the next charging station is. Or they do know, and they know it's farther away than they're comfortable with.

The EV probably makes a great commutermobile, but as noted on another thread elsewhere, I'm not sure they're ready for extended road trips without additional infrastructure. And, as a pedestrian and cyclist, I wish EV's would make more noise -- at least for safety. They can sneak up on you, especially in the dusk hours when the driver doesn't have the lights on.

The problem is that we are currently at the infant stage of new technology. I'm sure as more and more people embrace this, there will be a significant proliferation of charging stations and battery technology will improve to the point where range will no longer be an issue. I'm sure people who purchased vehicles with internal combustion engines a 100 years ago faced similar issues which we take for granted today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's real. I talked to one guy today (with a Nissan Laff, er, Leaf) who said the reason some EV drivers go soooo slowly up the miles-long grades here in the mountains is because they're trying not to draw down the battery ("continuous discharge") when they're not sure where the next charging station is. Or they do know, and they know it's farther away than they're comfortable with.

The EV probably makes a great commutermobile, but as noted on another thread elsewhere, I'm not sure they're ready for extended road trips without additional infrastructure. And, as a pedestrian and cyclist, I wish EV's would make more noise -- at least for safety. They can sneak up on you, especially in the dusk hours when the driver doesn't have the lights on.
True that EVs use more power going up a gradient. But most EVs have "regen" modes whereby downhill is where they re-charge, but agreed unless it is a long downhill, consider it a lost cause. EPA range ratings do have a combined range spec, so if the Leaf drivers can work with that, there is no reason for them to be dragging themselves up the hill. The beauty of EVs is that they have the same power in hilly country (i.e. higher elevations) as at lower terrain (unlike a normally aspirated internal combustion engine), so there is no need to drive like a **** sapiens timidicus.

"Range anxiety" is a condition of the mind. EV owners learn/know about the physical range of their EV and can plan their route within the physical constraints. That said, as you know, battery range is getting better, not worse.

Agreed these cars are too quiet, which is why new regulations (U.S.A. & Canada) this year compel electric cars to generate artificial noise outside the car to alert pedestrians.

Here in Canada, daytime running lights are mandatory on all cars, so these lights should be on automatically in the dusk hours until the driver turns on the headlights.
 

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Err, @grim? Your posts haven't been historically chauvinistically jerky, so I won't come unhinged & get myself banned, but please reconsider your words. Perhaps you spoke in jest & I'm missing the humor?
@Macanakey, you misinterpret and I shouldn't have said "smart". This was a compliment. Many say buying a car is the second most expensive purchase a couple makes. Having both partners in on the discussion would seem to be ideal, and I applaud that. Even within this forum I've read posts where "this is mine". People do whatever they want but IMO, its "ours" and I applaud that approach. In other words, I think large financial decisions are joint decisions. Anyone else is free to do whatever they want. This does not mean both partners can't have different interests. It means that in major financial decisions, I do think both should have input. There is nothing a salesmen hates more than an educated customer. But in no way am I saying what you implied.

BTW, I'm not talking about minor, day to day stuff. I'm talking big $$$ items where if both parties take an interest, it makes sense to me that in the long run, if both care about the product being bought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
3. Electric motors, which are extremely reliable
Is this true. I would think the jury is out. What is the track record of repairs for these new engines that haven't even been built yet? Zero. I don't think you can say that yet. Maybe in 20 years. You know about Early Adopters? They pay a heavy price.

6. instant exclusivity
that can be VERY bad. No interest, no need to produce the parts, lack of trained service, indy's won't care, etc. etc. etc. This is not a good point.

7. The unbeatable convenience of never having to go to a gas station, and the ability to charge the car at home via the normal plug in the garage at home in any weather, winter or summer.

What if you live in a condo? No garage. Then what? How about those older folks in retirement home? No garage. Where do they plug in. Who is going to build out the architecture? How will the utility infrastructure be built out to accommodate the load? These are unknowns.

8. the "Porscheness"!
Some will say the sound of silence is not Porscheness but the sound of death. Porsche is known for their sounds, not no sound.
QUOTE]

6. Exclusivity:

As stated, exclusivity is not a positive in this equation for my wife or me either, but for good or bad, is an observation of market dynamics. Heck, when I first joined this forum at its infancy in 2013, I remember some prospective Macan purchasers/tire kickers stating that they liked the fact they would be among the first few Macan owners among a sea of mundane crossovers. To repeat, not a factor for us, but apparently it goes with the territory, so has to be noted.

3. Reliability:

On our recent visit of the plant in Germany, we were shown a testbed-mounted EV motor which, according to the engineer, had already successfully completed a million kilometers under simulated real-world conditions, with zero malfunction incidences. The engineer confidently stated that reliability in EV motors was not approachable by any gas or diesel engine, and they were therefore in the enviable position to be able to move straight ahead to improving motor efficiency, which helps battery range, instead of being hung up with reliability concerns. In the case of my wife, I can attest that in her previous 5 years of EV ownership and nearly 105,000 kilometers of DD usage there was never a time of any motor hiccup or extra trip to the shop except for annual scheduled maintenance lasting a couple of hours of billed time each year.

7. Charging:

Chargers at street light posts are being looked at in the U.K. for users of street parking, among others. VW has just released a mobile charging robot to address the requirements of apartment/underground garages conditions:
Volkswagen Gen.E Appears To Preview Next-Gen Electric Golf

8. "Porscheness" and Sound:

Porsche is working on that sound ingredient. In my 30+ years of Porsche ownership and participation in club rallying and racing in my early days with used 911s, I never felt that sound was the only thing that defined Porsches. In fact, to me "Porscheness" is the sum total of a lot of collective ingredients that I have found to be present as soon as you touch the steering wheel and put your foot down on the pedal -it is the raw feedback of every bump (yes PASM still provides that now, unlike my early 911s), the control, the ease and enjoyment of the entire driving experience.

Regarding sound though, let's be real - the Macan in its turbocharged internal combustion engine version is hardly the iconic representation of the sound that Porsches are known for. I'm afraid all current turbo versions (yes even the PSE optioned ones) are a wet rag compared to Porsche's normally aspirated engines of the past (key word: past). Take any 6-cyl Cayman, with its mid-engine placement and unmistakable growl if you want that experience, which sadly simply does not exist in any Macan variant today. So where is that legendary Porsche sound you are hung up on? However, I have been told by reliable people whom I trust at Leipzig that Porsche haven't forgotten their incomparable success and heritage in car racing regarding that very important element - sound, and I hope that is the case! I remember when the Mission E was announced at Frankfurt, it was made clear by Porsche that the car will provide all the necessary ingredients that Porsche drivers expect, including exhilarating sound. Formula-E is an example of how those top-level manufacturers' racing cars will help develop the missing noise factor as they have started to address this too - fans are demanding it.
 

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"Range anxiety" is a condition of the mind.
How many times have you seen people stranded on the side of the road waiting for someone with a gallon of gas? I've seen it hundreds of times. Now imagine what will happen with EV. People don't or won't even check their oil. You want them to worry about a battery? Call this cynical but I expect a LOT of stranded cars and to dismiss it as a condition of mind doesn't account for the reality of what be all those stranded drivers. How do they get their next gallon of gas? Will there be giant booster batteries from AAA?

EV owners learn/know about the physical range of their EV and can plan their route
So much for spontaneity. One of the major points of getting your license was you know had freedom. The freedom to go where you want when you wanted. Now that freedom is taken away because you have to "plan your route"? Meh.

Agreed these cars are too quiet, which is why new regulations (U.S.A. & Canada) this year compel electric cars to generate artificial noise outside the car to alert pedestrians.
I wouldn't count on that. That was "last year". This is now.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/2...ise-low-speeds-rear-view-mirror-requirements/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...on-takes-aim-at-noise-mandate-for-hybrid-cars

You can read the articles but the essence is that burdensome and costly*regulations are being reviewed and some dumped.

Here in Canada, daytime running lights are mandatory on all cars, so these lights should be on automatically in the dusk hours until the driver turns on the headlights.
Any studies on if they are effective? I see no definitive study indicating they save lives but if they exist, I would like to read them. If the NHTSA hasn't adopted this rule, there is a reason as they tend to err on the side of caution, hence the suspicion they so nothing for safety with proven statistics.
 

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How many times have you seen people stranded on the side of the road waiting for someone with a gallon of gas? I've seen it hundreds of times. Now imagine what will happen with EV. People don't or won't even check their oil. You want them to worry about a battery? Call this cynical but I expect a LOT of stranded cars and to dismiss it as a condition of mind doesn't account for the reality of what be all those stranded drivers. How do they get their next gallon of gas? Will there be giant booster batteries from AAA?

So much for spontaneity. One of the major points of getting your license was you know had freedom. The freedom to go where you want when you wanted. Now that freedom is taken away because you have to "plan your route"? Meh.
What is up your arse about all this? What drives this loathing? Is it some deep-seated insecurity or something?
 
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