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Uncomfortable Steering Wheel Grip - 2022 Macan GTS GT Steering Wheel in RaceTex

8K views 76 replies 25 participants last post by  RoggieRog 
What do you mean by "shuffle turn"?
never cross your arms in a road car with air bags? You will regret crossing your arms and airbag goes off, not meant for wheel to wheel racing. Most race cars dont have airbags so dont confuse racing techniques with production car techniques

Just shuffle the wheel, start at 1:44

 
For the OP and to understand better, this is the standard leather, multi whatever its called 95b.1 steering wheel. Refer to post 27, which is CORRECT

I was driving today and thought to see what I was doing and without thinking it was shuffle steering. I don't see why anyone would do anything else. Its the airbag. You WILL regret it if it goes off.

See the indent below. See where the steering wheel indents? Thumbs go there, NOT around the wheel. See the stitching? If your fingers or hands are on the stitching, you are doing it wrong.



Now, also look at post 27 for the CF wheel and here it is in leather. That bulge? I suspect its there cause Porsche is known for racing. Its what they "did". Thats 10 and 2 and since race cars have no airbags, if you are going faster, the bulge works. But not for normal driving. Think of it like the Le Mans start left hand key, a remnant of racing but functionally meaningless IRL. If in a timed event, I doubt anyone is worrying about an airbag going off but on the line.

 
I don't buy the 10-2 is a risk with airbags (assuming you don't have your thumbs hooked). I have yet to find any actual data that shows it is an issue.



pictures, you were warned


 
Did you read any of those?! Support nowhere to be found.

"If your hands are at the top of the wheel and an airbag deploys, there’s a good chance that your hands will be propelled backward and into your face at high velocity " ...nope, not what we are talking about.

"The National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration reports that improper placement of hands on the wheel when an airbag deploys has caused injuries such as amputation of fingers and “degloving”" ...and they don't define what improper placement is.

"If the driver's hands are at the top of the wheel when the wheel-mounted airbag deploys, they are likely to be knocked into his or her face. If they are at the bottom of the wheel, they will be sent sideways, and do no further damage." ...again, not what we are talking about.

"A driver sustains multiple fractures of the forearms and wrists driving her car with both hands over the airbag cover in a collision." ...once again, not what we are talking about.

"Two MN state troopers sustained fractured thumbs while resting their thumbs over the center airbag cover" ...starting to see a theme here? Not what we are talking about.

"A wedding ring of a female's left hand causes a large facial laceration just above the left eye while driving her vehicle with the left hand on top of the wheel." ...the theme continues.

...and then this article goes on to do an experiment that was poorly constructed. It appears that they think that if you drive at 10-2 that you must wrap your thumbs. Yet, when you drive at 9-3, you never do. But, it gets better: "Certainly drivers should avoid holding their hands in the airbag danger zone: over the top of the wheel, over the airbag cover, and on the bottom" ...say what? Where is the reference to not holding at 10-2?

The last one doesn't give any written details, but looks like once again this is about wrapping your thumbs.

Got any more that don't support the position?

Many, go to NIH, there are dozens of reports. No they don't tell you exactly where the hands were, eg



Two open forearm fractures after airbag deployment during low speed accidents - PubMed and on and on and on

but do whatever you want. Drive however you want. Ignore AAA. Ignore the NHTSA.

Ignore the Insurance Companies eg



Your car. People do whatever they want.

More


According to MSNBC, in extreme cases, fingers or hands were severed and arms broken. In more common cases, arms can be flung into faces, causing broken noses and concussions.

The Traffic Safety Administration, the Auto Club and other agencies instead recommend holding the steering wheel at the lower 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions.



at least in cars with airbags, the idea being that if your hands are at 10 and 2 when the airbag deploys your arms may get broken or your shoulder dislocated or your hands are propelled into your head and you suffer some other grievous injury.


AAA, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and driving instructors teach that you should keep your hands lower, at 9 and 3 o'clock, or even lower, at 8 and 4. MSNBC says this change is partly to protect our hands and head, because if airbags go off, they're more likely to injure your hands that are higher up on the steering wheel and then slam your hands into your head. So apparently it's a "stop hitting yourself" adjustment.


10 and 2 fling arms into the A pillar or mirror
 
Gross on the thumb, which seems to be what the op was doing and the point of this thread



not FUD, very clear, crossing arms while turning is bad, which is the point of shuffle turning. 10 and 2 was meant to pull down for non PS cars. Arms crossed over. No more, shuffle turn so arm not in front of the air bag



eww, different subject but the point is the same, airbag gonna hurt, dont have anything in the way

 
So many "official" recommendations to change from the old-fashioned 10 & 2 position to the modern recommendation of 9 & 3 position.

I haven't found any type of study where there is proof that the fractures and facial injuries were caused when a driver had his hands in the 10 & 2 position as opposed to any other position such as 9 & 3. View attachment 266440
They exist, likely just not easily seen.

This one even mentions the arms were in 10/2 but thumbs wrapped, kind of gross pictures

Airbag-Associated Bilateral Thumb Metacarpophalangeal Joint Ulnar Collateral Ligament Injury

Here are a few NIH studies. But here's the thing. They are mostly from the mid-late 90s. There are MANY, you just got to search for them. eg.

1995 Automotive airbag-related upper extremity injuries: a report of three cases
1998 Two open forearm fractures after airbag deployment during low speed accidents

The problem with the studies are they are copyright and behind a paywall. So who is going to pay for them and you can't copy them anyway. This is almost three decades ago, just after the introduction of airbags on a large scale and there was time to study the accidents. I think one might draw the conclusion was driving at 9/3 in 1995 and using shuffle technique when they were taught 10/2 in Drivers Ed when they were 16.

Hence, the current NHTSA, AAA, and Insurance recommendations. IOW, arguments over 10/2 are moot, old, and it is beating a dead horse. It was studied 25 years ago.

This one is interesting, in that it should be obvious. DO NOT drink something while driving. You will regret it if you get into an accident.

2006 [Secondarily accelerated foreign bodies as a source of danger from airbag deployment]
 
Hey everyone, I’d like to thank all those who contributed to my original post. I feel that this has created a lot of great and educational dialogue that many are able to benefit from.

A couple of my takeaways from this are holding my steering wheel at 9 and 3 with thumbs on the rim pointed upward versus wrapped inside, and using shuffle steering. This took some discipline and I find it to be fatiguing than hanging my arms off the wheel with with my thumbs with what I now deem as dangerously keeping thumbs on the inside of the wheel. I never gave it much thought and felt that you should just do what feels comfortable to you. This has been a very fascinating experience for me as I did a nice long spirited drive last Friday and my first PCA event which was the 2023 Snowflake Rally in Long Island, NY, on Sunday. I’m still getting accustomed to this new grip, but it’s changing my entire driving experience. In addition, I’ve also began to employ shuffle steering and this too has been a game changer for me. They’re each still a bit awkward and unnatural, but when I’m back from my current work trip, I’m gonna continue using these two methods and continue refining my driving skills and habits.

Thanks again to you all for your contributions.
If there is one thing we strive to do, is educate where possible. Old habits are hard to break but the evidence is overwhelming that current recommendations are to ensure shuffle steering. We probably all grew up learning 10/2. Its just so 1966 :)
 
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